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[Tactics Games] Love or hate em? Why?
Fizzle
Player of GamesRegistered User regular
Player of GamesRegistered User regular
I've really been impressed by Fire Emblem lately, and it got me thinking back to some very fond memories with Final Fantasy Tactics and a few other games of that ilk. Curious to hear what other folks think about Tactics.
I'll start.
Love:
- Character evolution between battles. I don't generally enjoy grind, but for some reason I really enjoy shaping my army over time.
- Decision depth. Always liked chess and I sort of view tactics games as chess lite.
- Replayability. Different army every time, different interactions.
Dislike:
- PvE. All of them (with the exception of Hero Academy) seem to focus on play against an AI, which is a bit of a bummer.
- Balance. Always seems to be some uber unit that undermines some of the enjoyment. Think this is a product of me over-grinding and AI though.
I'll start.
Love:
- Character evolution between battles. I don't generally enjoy grind, but for some reason I really enjoy shaping my army over time.
- Decision depth. Always liked chess and I sort of view tactics games as chess lite.
- Replayability. Different army every time, different interactions.
Dislike:
- PvE. All of them (with the exception of Hero Academy) seem to focus on play against an AI, which is a bit of a bummer.
- Balance. Always seems to be some uber unit that undermines some of the enjoyment. Think this is a product of me over-grinding and AI though.
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Posts
For one thing, I don't always feel like going head to head against another person.
For another, I don't need an internet connection to play them. I don't always have (or want to use) an internet connection when I'm playing games. Games that are self-contained rate pretty highly in my books nowadays.
PvP would be a nice feature. I'd sort of like to see more tactical combat multilayer stuff at least as an option. Maybe a system for sharing more badass combo with other's would help with this too. Like a chevo system that would give you the option of uploading a video if you pulled off a 16 hit combo, or whatever.
I don't know. You spend tens of hours grinding on the block of shapeless statics into a finely crafted idol of death and destruction, and you never get to share it with anyone.
Turn based multiplayer is frequently dull(waiting for people is boring), and balancing would tend to take some work.
Its a shame that games like this are starting to become the exception.
I had to wait for steam to update the other night when I wanted to play civ 5. Bullshit, is what that was.
The only way to make PvP work in a tactics game is to remove the grind and replace it with a points system.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
And that's why the best ones are all PvE-centric, in my opinion. Half the fun of the game is shepherding your tiny little crew of mercenaries or what have you from an ineffective rabble into a well oiled machine.
Why not just assign a weight to each unit according to it's progress (Mage Level 1: 1 point, Mage 3: 3 points, Wizard 1: 5 points) and then pit armies of similar weight against each other? That way you could still have the progression, but folks would be fighting armies of similar strength.
I haven't played beyond the demo, but I liked how Skull of the Samurai did it on XBLA -- all footmen are created equal at the start of the battle, but they can develop further on the field.
The entire Fire Emblem series, Final Fantasy Tactics, the original XCOM, its sequel Terror from the Deep, XCOM: Apocalypse, and the Advance War series are all ones I can suggest looking at off the top of my head.
There are man others but those are just what occurred to me. If you wanna try something aged, but similar, the entire XCOM series (until the recent one) are in one big Steam pack for like fifteen dollars.
Though I bought it on sale for two.
Jagged Alliance 2
Silent Storm
Fallout Tactics
I am kind of giddy for you at the thought that I just introduced you to three fantastic tactics games that can be yours in a matter of minutes for less than $30.
You know what, that's absolutely true and the best point to be made. It's hard enough to find an opponent who won't quit half way through a game when a critical roll doesn't go his way or something.
The quitting aspect was what made it really hard for me to get into Hero Academy. So many games that just stopped halfway through. Loved that they brought another offering like that to mobile though.
Been playing the Disgaea series as well, but I usually burn out on those before I get to the end.
Agree re Disgaea. I always had a blast diving into the weapons and the colored tile mechanics are pretty fun to play around with as well. Definitely adds a layer of depth to the experience. I'll admit that I have a preference for FFT's character progression though -- really liked playing around with all of the classes.
I'd settle for a unit editor and a map editor!
Personally I love the abiliy to mix and match skills and abilities to create new combinations of characters. Like the Samuari class having abilities that benefit from Magic Strength making it an excellent secondary on Wizards. The games also tend to have deeper stories, or at least better stories then many games in other genres. In other RPG's your character is stuck in whatever role the developer decided for you, whereas here there is much more freedom. I also really appreciate game mechanics that try and mirror reality closely. For instance FFT's weather, terrain, and height effects.
PSN:Furlion
Solid post. Did you ever play Ogre Battle? I often view that as ancestor of the more modern tactics games. Still probably one of my favorite games of all time.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who would take one of those bar away missions to get some exp for your characters in FFT and then would walk back and forth between cities to hit the number of days required for the mission, saving at almost every 'safe' dot and restarting the game if one of the red ones ended up in a fight!
Vandal Hearts was kind of terribly over the top, so much that I never gave the sequel a look, though it's widely thought it's the better of the two.
Jean d'Arc on psp is a fun little aside, not hard just fun.
Some friends of mine say good things about nippon ichi's other tactical games, la Pucelle and the like.
So, so true. Usually in lieu of intelligent maneuvering you're simply pitted against superior numbers with superior equipment and superior base stats.
XCOM:EU's AI is at least smart enough to move to a flanking position more often than not when you give it the opportunity, and it's rather wicked about punishing your mistakes, but it's hardly brilliant.
The original Final Fantasy Tactics is my favorite, simply because I played it when I was a kid and was bad at video games, and basically every part of that first playthrough is stitched to my soul.
After I figured out you had up to 5 guys on a map, I didn't know they sold Archer and Knight stuff at the first Castle, so, I went to battle 3 with them barehanded and naked. Suffice to say it did not go well and I lost some dudes FOREVER. This did not sit well with my young self, so I raised the money to hire new guys, name them the exact same, and proceeded to continue the game.
Grinding for hours and hours and hours on the one map before Golgarand Execution Site, because that fight was so hard and I was cut off from the rest of the map.
Getting stuck in Riovannes Castle and being unable to beat Wiegraf. Starting a new file with a bit more experience!
I played Tactics: Ogre, and it was ok, but there were a few things that bugged me about it.
2) The crafting system was annoying having to save after each steps' success and reload after each steps' failure.
3) I screwed myself out of getting the Necromancer, and didn't want to go through all the effort to get her the hard way.
I still made it pretty far in Chapter 4. I have a habit of quitting games before the last dungeon though. I could definitely see its influence on the Final Fantasy Tactics games though.
I never beat it
If i had the money, i would make the fuck out of that game.
Ogre Battle, while a very good game, is really closer to being an RTS. There's not much to tie it to Tactics Ogre, in terms of pure gameplay.
I remember how hard both of these fights were the first time or two I went through the game myself. Those fights definitely were competency checks for the player. So many fond memories of FFT.
Also, I'm that one guy who couldn't get into either FFT:A or A2 because of that fracking Judge System. Major bummer because from what else I saw of it there were some pretty awesome game systems in there as far as tactics games go.
FFXIV - Milliardo Beoulve/Sargatanas
I have actually played a few of the different Ogre Battle games (assuming you include the Tactics Ogre franchise as a part of it). Ogre Battle 64 is my personal favorite of the direct series. Although it is not really a tactics game I really enjoyed the mix of RTS and RPG gameplay elements. I have played pretty much all of the console and handheld tactic games that have come out in the states. Some I have not seen mentioned so far:
Suikoden Tactics
Front Mission Series
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Metal Gear Acid
All of which are pretty solid games if you can get them. The Front Mission series is especially good since it combines two things I love: Tactics gameplay and big ass robots.
PSN:Furlion
Edit: Also, the Heroes of Might and Magic sort of fits (I like V with the AI mod the best, but i think 3 is generally considered the most popular)
Edit 2: And if HOMM is tactics, then so is king's bounty, and maybe even disciples
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