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[Tactics Games] Love or hate em? Why?

13

Posts

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    I can't fucking beleave just forgot to not save before the fight with gafgarion. Like, I just started grinding monk. And I forgot to set a secondary job. Auto potion? What auto potion?

    I really kinda hate being punished quite this much for only using a single save.

    Think of it this way - FFT is the defining game for a lot of RPG players where they learned to keep multiple saves. It's a hard lesson to learn, but you're definitely not the first person to learn it from FFT.

    Yes. Learn. Wouldn't my life be better if that was a thing that occurred, and I haven't pulled off various versions of this every time a break it out.

    This machine kills threads.
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    these are generally my favorite type of game, hell yeah thread

    vandal hearts was my first one ever <3

    so easy

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    I have no idea what happened to this, if it got cancelled or what. If it was ever released, it never made it out of Japan, but this makes me salivate.

    01.jpg

    02.jpg

    03.jpg

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Smoogy wrote: »
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Also I didn't elaborate on it because I thought I was a weirdo.

    But the Wiegraf battle is why I never finished FFT. I've never been crushed and devastated by a game that I loved so much.

    I bred a group of red chocobos to win that battle. One of my less rational strategies but it worked dammit!

    I figured they were talking about the battle where it's just Ramza vs. Wiegraf/Velius. The other Wiegraf battles are simple.

    The fight following that is just as infuriating and that's the one I'm talking about. The solo fight can be pretty simple if you kept your gear upgraded and just made sure you had the proper immunities going in. It was getting enough damage on the transformation to get him down before his cronies destroy you that had me hung up. All proof that holy knights are cheese.

    On your first playthrough, you wouldn't know what immunities you needed. And if you happened not to have them, and saved inside the castle, then whelp, you're fucked.

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  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I have no idea what happened to this, if it got cancelled or what. If it was ever released, it never made it out of Japan, but this makes me salivate.

    01.jpg

    02.jpg

    03.jpg

    Holy shit what the fuck is this hotness?

    Variable
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Zenitram wrote: »
    For those that love FFT but haven't played War of the Lions on PSP, I highly recommend it. It's very much the same game, but with story and grammar fixes, and awesome hand-drawn cutscenes in some spots. A couple new additions too, like a Dark Knight or Onion Knight job.

    My only problem with War of the Lions is how horribly it handles on psp. Everything just goes so slowly. OK I guess I have two problems, all the sound effects and music are way off.

    I have to say that while you are correct in that the slowdown is both noticeable and present in virtually all attacks other then basic Attacks, it is absolutely the best way to play FFT and seriously worth it. I do not know who within the company decided to port and upgrade the game but they clearly did so with both a love for the original and a desire to give fans the ultimate version of the game they could. From the anime-esque cut-scenes which were clearly crafted with serious love for the game, to the inclusion of the Dark Knight class (for those who did not frequent message boards like GameFaqs back in the day this was a class constantly used to troll people since you could use one in the game but could not become one), to adding even more guest appearances from other games in the series it was done incredibly well. That they even added in multiplayer, something which many fans wished for, and attempted to balance it showed to me that whatever the reason for the slowdown they felt like it was necessary for giving the best they could. That the first game had some stuff wrong probably had more to do with a limited budget from a still small Squaresoft rather then a lack of love for the game. As a huge fan there are some nitpicks that could be aimed at WotL but if you have the ability and a love for the game it is probably the closest to what the original developers will ever be able to get to what they really wanted the game to be like.

    I love that the thread is bonding over that fucking Wiegraf fight. I had (and still have) the strategy guide so I went in prepared. Even so it was a struggle the first time I played through the game. After that I read the GameFaqs Battle Mechanics Guide by Aerostar like it was a religious text and used it to craft my party for maximum ass whooping. So the next playthrough I had a Two Swords Monk who killed him in one turn.

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  • VladimusVladimus Registered User regular
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Smoogy wrote: »
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Also I didn't elaborate on it because I thought I was a weirdo.

    But the Wiegraf battle is why I never finished FFT. I've never been crushed and devastated by a game that I loved so much.

    I bred a group of red chocobos to win that battle. One of my less rational strategies but it worked dammit!

    I figured they were talking about the battle where it's just Ramza vs. Wiegraf/Velius. The other Wiegraf battles are simple.

    The fight following that is just as infuriating and that's the one I'm talking about. The solo fight can be pretty simple if you kept your gear upgraded and just made sure you had the proper immunities going in. It was getting enough damage on the transformation to get him down before his cronies destroy you that had me hung up. All proof that holy knights are cheese.

    On your first playthrough, you wouldn't know what immunities you needed. And if you happened not to have them, and saved inside the castle, then whelp, you're fucked.

    But after trying and failing the fight several times, I did figure out some of the immunities I needed and those items were in my inventory, because I'm a psychotic pack rat who keeps everything. Unfortunately, nothing in my inventory protected from ultima slinging daemons. Team red chocobo was an exercise in my own stupidity.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I'll disagree that the PSP version is the best in favor of the iPad version. Having a full 360 degrees of rotation and fluid zooming using your fingers is just so natural. It's feels like the way the game was meant to be played.

    I can't wait until I have some monies though so I can try all these new games mentioned in the thread :D

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  • MatriasMatrias Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I consider the new XCOM: Enemy Unknown to be the greatest turn based tactical game I've ever played. It's not without its problems, but the experience is so close to exactly the experience I always want from these kinds of games.

    I like the new Xcom, but the metagame leaves a lot to be desired. core gameplay is great, though.

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  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Imperial Magistrate of the Mantis Clan Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    I'll disagree that the PSP version is the best in favor of the iPad version. Having a full 360 degrees of rotation and fluid zooming using your fingers is just so natural. It's feels like the way the game was meant to be played.

    I can't wait until I have some monies though so I can try all these new games mentioned in the thread :D

    I don't know what all systems you have access to but if you can scrounge up a way to play Vandal Hearts(PSX) it's definitely worth a couple of playthroughs as it has multiple endings depending upon what you accomplish in the story.

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  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Matrias wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    I consider the new XCOM: Enemy Unknown to be the greatest turn based tactical game I've ever played. It's not without its problems, but the experience is so close to exactly the experience I always want from these kinds of games.

    I like the new Xcom, but the metagame leaves a lot to be desired. core gameplay is great, though.

    Yeah I agree with this. While I still love X-COM it has some flaws that put it behind other tactics game. While the meta-game seems interesting at first it is really just about getting as many satellites over as many countries as possible. Which is neither deep or complex, both of which are staples of the genre in my opinion.

    At the same time the Ironman mode really places a focus on tatcical battle decisions in a way many of the others do not, which is nice.While trying to complete my Ironman game on the Classic difficulty I restarted several times just because of the deaths of one or two troops. With such a small combat unit size (starts at 4, upgrades to 6) the loss of even one veteran could be devastating.

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  • ZenitramZenitram Registered User regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I have no idea what happened to this, if it got cancelled or what. If it was ever released, it never made it out of Japan, but this makes me salivate.

    Holy shit what the fuck is this hotness?

    I need to know more.

    steam_sig.png
  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    I looked up a bit more info. It's unfortunately not as cool as it looks. It was a browser based MMO in Japan called Chevalier Saga Tactics. While it looks great in stills, there aren't a lot of frames of animation.

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Smoogy wrote: »
    Vladimus wrote: »
    Also I didn't elaborate on it because I thought I was a weirdo.

    But the Wiegraf battle is why I never finished FFT. I've never been crushed and devastated by a game that I loved so much.

    I bred a group of red chocobos to win that battle. One of my less rational strategies but it worked dammit!

    I figured they were talking about the battle where it's just Ramza vs. Wiegraf/Velius. The other Wiegraf battles are simple.

    The fight following that is just as infuriating and that's the one I'm talking about. The solo fight can be pretty simple if you kept your gear upgraded and just made sure you had the proper immunities going in. It was getting enough damage on the transformation to get him down before his cronies destroy you that had me hung up. All proof that holy knights are cheese.

    On your first playthrough, you wouldn't know what immunities you needed. And if you happened not to have them, and saved inside the castle, then whelp, you're fucked.

    But after trying and failing the fight several times, I did figure out some of the immunities I needed and those items were in my inventory, because I'm a psychotic pack rat who keeps everything. Unfortunately, nothing in my inventory protected from ultima slinging daemons. Team red chocobo was an exercise in my own stupidity.

    There's a reason my combat monster characters had almost 0 faith. There's also a reason they had 97 brave, and my casters had like 85 faith. Just for the hell of it I even had a character use the Goku Rod a few times. Sadly if you had the Goku Rod equipped, you couldn't actually learn Zodiac.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    FFT is so fun, but so easy to break. It's gotten to the point where the only challenge comes from self-imposed rules, like Ramza-only, single-class, single-generic, etc. Of course, even some of those are trivialized by combos like HP/MP Swap and Move MP Up.

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  • TallweirdoTallweirdo Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    kime wrote: »
    I can't wait until I have some monies though so I can try all these new games mentioned in the thread :D

    If money is an issue Battle for Wesnoth is a free and decent 2D hex-based tactics game for PC, Mac and Linux with a variety of campaigns, scenarios and races (Edit: and Multiplayer). It's still being actively developed and maintained 6 years after it was first released.

    This thread inspired me to re-install it again.

    Tallweirdo on
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  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Now I'm going to have to go back and find a copy of Dynasty Tactics to play. Man.

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  • SmoogySmoogy Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    FFT is so fun, but so easy to break. It's gotten to the point where the only challenge comes from self-imposed rules, like Ramza-only, single-class, single-generic, etc. Of course, even some of those are trivialized by combos like HP/MP Swap and Move MP Up.

    Agreed. Calculator + Holy + resist holy gear on your characters...boom. It was easily cheesed, but the self-imposed rules you talk about were actually awesome.

    Or you could just use Orlandu and be godlike. Man...why was he in the game!?

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  • VladimusVladimus Registered User regular
    Smoogy wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    FFT is so fun, but so easy to break. It's gotten to the point where the only challenge comes from self-imposed rules, like Ramza-only, single-class, single-generic, etc. Of course, even some of those are trivialized by combos like HP/MP Swap and Move MP Up.

    Agreed. Calculator + Holy + resist holy gear on your characters...boom. It was easily cheesed, but the self-imposed rules you talk about were actually awesome.

    Or you could just use Orlandu and be godlike. Man...why was he in the game!?

    TG Cid is an apology for Ramza's poorly designed butt accentuating third suit.

    furlion
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Man. I thought I was the only person who played Vandal Hearts. Grabbed it on a whim from the local mom & pop video store as a kid.

    My mind exploded when people were straight up murdered on the battlefield.

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  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    I have been playing a lot of Tactics games lately.

    FFT is of course awesome. War of the Lions is slow on the PSP though, and if you can believe it, Balthier is even more broken than Orlandu.

    The top SRPG for overpowered enemy fuckery has got to be Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor though. Some people say it's easy, but I dunno, I felt like a lot of the bosses had powers that were just unfair. You did feel awesome beating them, though.

    Then, for my backlog, I played Luminous Arc (decent, not much to say about it), Jeanne d'Arc (starts off rough, but eventually falls into the JRPG trap of overpowered characters), Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones (not resetting when your characters die is the only way to play), and Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis (was a decent tactics game when it came out, but now it's slowwwwwwwwww assssssssssssss fuccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk, there's little more to it than walking up to enemies and poking them, and they just kind of stop giving you new stuff 2/3 through the game. Lots of cool features and flavor though.)

    Of these, the most tactical is easily Fire Emblem. There's not much in the way of character customization, so it matters far more how you USE your units than how you MAKE them. The only problem with Fire Emblem, for me, is that the way that combat is set up makes most bosses a joke. There is no Wiegraf moment.

    My favorite, though, is Disgaea. The battles are not particularly tactical (it's really easy to grind), but the systems, at least in the first two, were nuts. I ignored the Item World when I first played it, but now, I do Item World for grinding, and that's the real fun for me. It becomes a puzzle game with a tactics interface, and having to conserve SP and pick your battles is a lot more fun than always using your best moves and hoping you outpower the enemy. Disgaea 2 was a little more tactical, and bizarrely, in the grinding king series, has one of the best difficulty curves of any RPG I have ever played (if you know what you're doing).

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    Man. I thought I was the only person who played Vandal Hearts. Grabbed it on a whim from the local mom & pop video store as a kid.

    My mind exploded when people were straight up murdered on the battlefield.

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  • VladimusVladimus Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Man. I thought I was the only person who played Vandal Hearts. Grabbed it on a whim from the local mom & pop video store as a kid.

    My mind exploded when people were straight up murdered on the battlefield.

    arterial geysers

    This and everyone's widelegged stance like they were ready to lay a big steamer on the battlefield just set me off from liking that game.

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    I still remember playing the Mario Strategy RPG that was on the SNES. No one else ever seems to remember it though.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    I'm guessing you have a loose definition of SRPG, or you are misremembering something. Mario RPG had an isometric camera, so I guess it looked like an SRPG, but it wasn't.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Battles of Prince of Persia on the DS is an interesting game.

    It uses a hand of cards as the command giving mechanism (like the superb Command & Colours board game system) but has the genius idea of having a customisable deck to draw your cards from. Winning battles got you new packs of random cards to customise your deck. A neat double Rock-Paper-Scissor mechanic to units (Swords, Bows, Pike and Small, Medium, Large) plus unit facing allows a lot of tactical possibilities.

    It's just a shame that Rare cards are strictly better than common cards rather than being more specialised. A Move 4 Units cards is simply better than a move 3 units card as in general the cards are always "upto" rather than being strict on the number of units to activate. And the enemy AI starts to fall apart in the later, larger battles - with the designers having to throw lots of enemeies at you to make a challenge. Early on though this game is an absolute pearl.

    The number of misunderstandings and failures of comprehension in the Eurogamer review make me proper angry they do. The non-stop comparisons to Advanced Wars - a game it only superficially resembles at best, is an egregious failure of reviewing.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    You know I really wish Vaklyria Chronicles didn't migrate to the gosh darn PSP.

    I borrowed it from a friend for my PS3 and loved it. Never had a chance to finish it but when I saw all of the future games would be on a platform I did not own it just killed my interest.

    That was such a fresh approach.

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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Are there any other SRPGs for the iPad than FFT? I bought it but found the touchscreen controls really clunky.

    I can read Japanese, I just am out of touch completely with game news.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    You know I really wish Vaklyria Chronicles didn't migrate to the gosh darn PSP.

    I borrowed it from a friend for my PS3 and loved it. Never had a chance to finish it but when I saw all of the future games would be on a platform I did not own it just killed my interest.

    That was such a fresh approach.

    I only played half of two.

    Which is.. pretty bad. You might remember me as the person who had an Isara avatar for about three years.

    They did a lot of good stuff technically in terms of customization, balance, and such, but the story was very different and the battlefields, due to technical limitations, were tiny. No grand troop movements in huge trenches, no sweeping up the side of a desert with snipers.

    I just felt really let down. I loved the original so much.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    You know I really wish Vaklyria Chronicles didn't migrate to the gosh darn PSP.

    I borrowed it from a friend for my PS3 and loved it. Never had a chance to finish it but when I saw all of the future games would be on a platform I did not own it just killed my interest.

    That was such a fresh approach.

    I only played half of two.

    Which is.. pretty bad. You might remember me as the person who had an Isara avatar for about three years.

    They did a lot of good stuff technically in terms of customization, balance, and such, but the story was very different and the battlefields, due to technical limitations, were tiny. No grand troop movements in huge trenches, no sweeping up the side of a desert with snipers.

    I just felt really let down. I loved the original so much.

    There is a fan translation for VC3 in the works.

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  • FizzleFizzle Player of Games Registered User regular
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any other SRPGs for the iPad than FFT? I bought it but found the touchscreen controls really clunky.

    I can read Japanese, I just am out of touch completely with game news.

    Anyone else try the tactics games on the iPad? Any thoughts on how that felt versus using a controller? Kind of like the tap input rather than mashing the controller over the tiles.

  • GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    Battles of Prince of Persia on the DS is an interesting game.

    It uses a hand of cards as the command giving mechanism (like the superb Command & Colours board game system) but has the genius idea of having a customisable deck to draw your cards from. Winning battles got you new packs of random cards to customise your deck. A neat double Rock-Paper-Scissor mechanic to units (Swords, Bows, Pike and Small, Medium, Large) plus unit facing allows a lot of tactical possibilities.

    It's just a shame that Rare cards are strictly better than common cards rather than being more specialised. A Move 4 Units cards is simply better than a move 3 units card as in general the cards are always "upto" rather than being strict on the number of units to activate. And the enemy AI starts to fall apart in the later, larger battles - with the designers having to throw lots of enemeies at you to make a challenge. Early on though this game is an absolute pearl.

    The number of misunderstandings and failures of comprehension in the Eurogamer review make me proper angry they do. The non-stop comparisons to Advanced Wars - a game it only superficially resembles at best, is an egregious failure of reviewing.

    That was a game that I would never have expected anything from, but it was quite good. I lost interest as it moved along, but good concepts and rather solid gameplay. And hell, it's certainly better than Advance Wars at being an SRPG.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Fizzle wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Are there any other SRPGs for the iPad than FFT? I bought it but found the touchscreen controls really clunky.

    I can read Japanese, I just am out of touch completely with game news.

    Anyone else try the tactics games on the iPad? Any thoughts on how that felt versus using a controller? Kind of like the tap input rather than mashing the controller over the tiles.
    I mentioned this earlier in the thread, I think, but I thought the controls were fantastic. Not quite perfect, but controlling the camera on the iPad is amazing. I think they could have reworked choosing things on the menu a bit, but it is still easily my favorite control scheme for FF Tactics

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  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    I never felt like I needed a PS3 badly enough to justify the expense of a second console, but nothing made me question that conviction more than staring at screenshots of Valkyria Chronicles.

  • phillerphiller Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    vandal hearts was my first one ever <3

    so easy
    Man. I thought I was the only person who played Vandal Hearts. Grabbed it on a whim from the local mom & pop video store as a kid.

    My mind exploded when people were straight up murdered on the battlefield.

    Holy shit, glad to see Vandal Hearts got mentioned on this thread too. I played FFT and VH roughly around the same time, and even though I treat Tactics as my favourite game, I have such fond memories of Vandal Hearts that I could easily call it that too.

    If I recall, someone actually set it up on an emulator, and I ended up trying it out on a whim. Was hooked immediately, especially because of the brutal art. I'm talking about those gigantic noses of course.

    Also, I'm pretty fond of Front Mission, though I've only ever completed 4, and never finished 5 on a fan-translated emulation due to time and a lack of a... less than legitimate PS2.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It is an eternal shame that we're never going to get Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Tactics. I'm hoping that the success of XCom is going to lead to some fresh attempts at a variety of tactics games.

    I was going to make this post, because I pretty much always do when this kind of thing comes up, but since you beat me, I'll have to settle for wishing I could agree more than once.

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  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    I think we can get some interesting things on consoles. We've got Tower Defense with ARPG now, which is pretty interesting, and a bit more engaging than straightforward tower defense. I mean, on consoles, arguably, the strategy titles like Dynasty Warriors are just real-time tactics games. I don't find them quite as fun due to the real-time element, and that element also means that one can lose without actually "losing." The turn-based tactics games benefit from having time to manage an entire squad, without micromanaging AI.

    Annoyingly, these types of games typically have pretty long legs, but as was discussed above, they don't really work as well for PvP. Still, there may be good co-op opportunities.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Venitah, Satariel! Registered User regular
    Given the research done on FFT's engine, I'm really surprised someone hasn't reverse engineered a PvP client using the same math. I mean look, shit, it's all here. http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/3876

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  • SmoogySmoogy Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Given the research done on FFT's engine, I'm really surprised someone hasn't reverse engineered a PvP client using the same math. I mean look, shit, it's all here. http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/3876

    That would be pretty epic, I have to say. I still love playing these types of games against the AI, but...yeah. I'd be all over that.

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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    I don't really see the problem with a point system and multiplayer. Just give them x money and y xp to distribute, and allow single player characters to be imported at whatever their current value is. Just establish a few set levels of points per party/character, and make it as easy as possible to scale characters up and down not quite on the fly. I don't really see how any of that is insurmountable. You'd kinda want geometric relationship between level cost and associated benefits.


    This machine kills threads.
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