Iron Thread 3: Out Now! [Iron Man 3] (Use SPOILER Tags!)

AManFromEarth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ue43ALt_s-Y

This is a thread for discussing Iron Man 3, specifically, so GTFO of the Marvel and Move thread and start yer startin' in here.

Quid

This was a fantastic Iron Man movie.

ElJeffe

Edited the title to clarify that this is an Iron Man 3 thread, just in case.

Also, what's the spoiler policy in here?

AManFromEarth

Spoil plot points since the movie hasn't been out a week yet.

I'd say use common sense, but I've been in the Game of Thrones thread...

jdarksun

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Tomanta

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Frozenzen

My main issue with IM3 is how horribly horribly uneven it was. Super spoilers ahead, like all the spoilers pretty much.

I went in expecting something a tad more dramatic, and a tad more focused on Tonys issues post almost dying. Instead they touched on it lightly, and handwaved it away in the end. The kid character annoyed the shit out of me, apart some occasional humor. I guess I wanted an action drama, and not an action comedy. The final fight scene was awesome, but I couldn't care less as the villain was boring as shit once the Mandarin was shown to be a fake, and the bad guys were also boring as hell. Red dudes who are like on fire is kind of lame. So I guess I kind of liked it, but I wish it had been better? I did enjoy the movie, just some parts really really annoyed me.

jdarksun

Ah, didn't think about the movie thread.

Great movie. IM1 still the best solo movie, Avengers still best comic book movie of all time. But IM3 is easily #3.

Pailryder

movie was "entertaining" but not "great". I didn't feel bad that i saw it in the theater as a summer block buster movie but the story was all over the place.

what is Tony really having anxiety about?* why do both kids mention the wormhole? why would they call the VP instead of say, anyone that could do something? Where was pepper working, because stark tower wasn't destroyed, it was just damage a little? As soon as Tony figured out AIM was bad, why didn't he reboot war machine or whatever to not allow AIM to do anything to it? Why couldn't we have more don cheadle and ben kingsley?!?
*to me this is the real problem with the movie (that i enjoyed watching). The movie seems to imply that Tony's problem is that he is not overcoming his fear, he is just putting off confronting it by building suits that protect him from whatever. During his time with the kid, he learns that he is a mechanic that can build stuff to solve problems and that helps him overcome his fear. Except, that means that he overcame his fear by doing what he was doing already, just building different things. I think others have said that the movie was trying to show that TONY is iron man, not the suits, and it kind of tries to do that a few times, but then TONY is impotent without the suits against people like Killian, and it takes a powered-up Pepper and Suit to stop him....so the point was bad.

IM1 gets a lot of praise and i think it was very novel and allowed RDJ to really bring a great perspective to a person that becomes a hero in a different way then say Captain America or Batman. Two is just really incoherent. Three is easy to follow in terms of what is going on but the motivations of people and why things happen the way they do seem to fall apart. So i guess 1 > 3 > 2?

DivideByZero

Can't have an IM3 thread without the completely bitchin end title theme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vvd_VqXJkI

The soundtrack to this film is so good.

Tomanta

The end title theme is great but it loses something without the visuals.

Tamin

Pailryder wrote: »

movie was "entertaining" but not "great". I didn't feel bad that i saw it in the theater as a summer block buster movie but the story was all over the place.

what is Tony really having anxiety about?* why do both kids mention the wormhole? why would they call the VP instead of say, anyone that could do something? Where was pepper working, because stark tower wasn't destroyed, it was just damage a little? As soon as Tony figured out AIM was bad, why didn't he reboot war machine or whatever to not allow AIM to do anything to it? Why couldn't we have more don cheadle and ben kingsley?!?

*to me this is the real problem with the movie (that i enjoyed watching). The movie seems to imply that Tony's problem is that he is not overcoming his fear, he is just putting off confronting it by building suits that protect him from whatever.

During his time with the kid, he learns that he is a mechanic that can build stuff to solve problems and that helps him overcome his fear. Except, that means that he overcame his fear by doing what he was doing already, just building different things. I think others have said that the movie was trying to show that TONY is iron man, not the suits, and it kind of tries to do that a few times, but then TONY is impotent without the suits against people like Killian, and it takes a powered-up Pepper and Suit to stop him....so the point was bad.

IM1 gets a lot of praise and i think it was very novel and allowed RDJ to really bring a great perspective to a person that becomes a hero in a different way then say Captain America or Batman. Two is just really incoherent. Three is easy to follow in terms of what is going on but the motivations of people and why things happen the way they do seem to fall apart. So i guess 1 > 3 > 2?

building random prototype suits wasn't inventing, it's just iterating. And badly. Those suits were low quality.

having the kid say "build something" was "building something new", breaking out of his rut.

Overcoming his fear required him to recognize that "I can protect / rescue / take care of my loved ones without all my toys. I can go to the hardware store, buy Christmas ornaments, and still kick ass." And, up to a point, that worked. But Pepper saving him helped also: she doesn't need to be protected; as we saw in the Mandarin attack and final battle, she can protect him.

Stark Tower was pretty clearly "Avengers Tower" by the end of that movie; perhaps he ceded control of it to SHIELD?

He couldn't reboot Iron Patriot without getting to a Stark campus, at minimum. He could have asked Rhodey to return to one for rebooting, but I think the capture took place right as he was figuring out AIM is bad news.

Feral

I loved this movie.

I was very skeptical going into it, but it turned right around on me.

Feral

Tomanta wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Yeah, that bit stretched the limits of believability, but

Hollywood always treats network security stupidly

at least he didn't stick some gizmo on the monitor to "hack their IPs" or some technobabble nonsense

Carpy

Pailryder wrote: »

movie was "entertaining" but not "great". I didn't feel bad that i saw it in the theater as a summer block buster movie but the story was all over the place.

what is Tony really having anxiety about?* why do both kids mention the wormhole? why would they call the VP instead of say, anyone that could do something? Where was pepper working, because stark tower wasn't destroyed, it was just damage a little? As soon as Tony figured out AIM was bad, why didn't he reboot war machine or whatever to not allow AIM to do anything to it? Why couldn't we have more don cheadle and ben kingsley?!?
*to me this is the real problem with the movie (that i enjoyed watching). The movie seems to imply that Tony's problem is that he is not overcoming his fear, he is just putting off confronting it by building suits that protect him from whatever. During his time with the kid, he learns that he is a mechanic that can build stuff to solve problems and that helps him overcome his fear. Except, that means that he overcame his fear by doing what he was doing already, just building different things. I think others have said that the movie was trying to show that TONY is iron man, not the suits, and it kind of tries to do that a few times, but then TONY is impotent without the suits against people like Killian, and it takes a powered-up Pepper and Suit to stop him....so the point was bad.

IM1 gets a lot of praise and i think it was very novel and allowed RDJ to really bring a great perspective to a person that becomes a hero in a different way then say Captain America or Batman. Two is just really incoherent. Three is easy to follow in terms of what is going on but the motivations of people and why things happen the way they do seem to fall apart. So i guess 1 > 3 > 2?

Why is it weird that the two kids ask him about the wormhole? It's a giant tear in space that aliens came from to attack Earth and he was the only human to go through it. It would be weird if he wasn't getting questions about it all the time.

Feral

Carpy wrote: »

Pailryder wrote: »

movie was "entertaining" but not "great". I didn't feel bad that i saw it in the theater as a summer block buster movie but the story was all over the place.

what is Tony really having anxiety about?* why do both kids mention the wormhole? why would they call the VP instead of say, anyone that could do something? Where was pepper working, because stark tower wasn't destroyed, it was just damage a little? As soon as Tony figured out AIM was bad, why didn't he reboot war machine or whatever to not allow AIM to do anything to it? Why couldn't we have more don cheadle and ben kingsley?!?
*to me this is the real problem with the movie (that i enjoyed watching). The movie seems to imply that Tony's problem is that he is not overcoming his fear, he is just putting off confronting it by building suits that protect him from whatever. During his time with the kid, he learns that he is a mechanic that can build stuff to solve problems and that helps him overcome his fear. Except, that means that he overcame his fear by doing what he was doing already, just building different things. I think others have said that the movie was trying to show that TONY is iron man, not the suits, and it kind of tries to do that a few times, but then TONY is impotent without the suits against people like Killian, and it takes a powered-up Pepper and Suit to stop him....so the point was bad.

IM1 gets a lot of praise and i think it was very novel and allowed RDJ to really bring a great perspective to a person that becomes a hero in a different way then say Captain America or Batman. Two is just really incoherent. Three is easy to follow in terms of what is going on but the motivations of people and why things happen the way they do seem to fall apart. So i guess 1 > 3 > 2?

Why is it weird that the two kids ask him about the wormhole? It's a giant tear in space that aliens came from to attack Earth and he was the only human to go through it. It would be weird if he wasn't getting questions about it all the time.

Or, you know, they

don't show all the kids who ask him other questions because this isn't a Ken Burns documentary and there's a plot to move along

Feral

DivideByZero wrote: »

The soundtrack to this film is so good.

Except that it starts with

Eiffel

fucking

65

If I had a top 10 list of the worst songs ever made, that song would be snuggled right in between "Tonight's Gonna Be a Good Night" and OMC's "How Bizarre."

Joolander

Feral wrote: »

Tomanta wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Yeah, that bit stretched the limits of believability, but

Hollywood always treats network security stupidly

at least he didn't stick some gizmo on the monitor to "hack their IPs" or some technobabble nonsense

hey

this isn't the 80s. Nobody says "hack" anymore

also

WARMACHINEROX

Joolander

Feral wrote: »

DivideByZero wrote: »

The soundtrack to this film is so good.

Except that it starts with

Eiffel

fucking

65

If I had a top 10 list of the worst songs ever made, that song would be snuggled right in between "Tonight's Gonna Be a Good Night" and OMC's "How Bizarre."

while this is true, its really the perfect song to start the movie with

it pegs the atmosphere at 1999 party scene

because, sideburns aside, 1999 Tony is not all that different from 2008 pre-cave Tony

Tamin

I have already forgotten.

After the 1999 bit, does it specify a year on-screen? I feel like it does, but I can't remember for sure.

DivideByZero

Feral wrote: »

DivideByZero wrote: »

The soundtrack to this film is so good.

Except that it starts with

Eiffel

fucking

65

If I had a top 10 list of the worst songs ever made, that song would be snuggled right in between "Tonight's Gonna Be a Good Night" and OMC's "How Bizarre."

Feral would you say you're feeling

blue?

Feral

Joolander wrote: »

Feral wrote: »

DivideByZero wrote: »

The soundtrack to this film is so good.

Except that it starts with

Eiffel

fucking

65

If I had a top 10 list of the worst songs ever made, that song would be snuggled right in between "Tonight's Gonna Be a Good Night" and OMC's "How Bizarre."

while this is true, its really the perfect song to start the movie with

it pegs the atmosphere at 1999 party scene

because, sideburns aside, 1999 Tony is not all that different from 2008 pre-cave Tony

you do have a point there

AManFromEarth

I hope, with the introduction of AIM in this one, that Zola makes a reappearance in Cap 2.

Joolander

long shot, but I'm hoping

after suffering from his grievous bodily harm at the end of IM3, Aldrich Killian's Extremis powers go overboard in healing him and malfunction, giving him a giant head and the need to be supported by a floating chair

Aegis

Liked the movie quite a bit. Even liked the kid, which was odd because I was sure that was going to make me hate him.

Post-credits scene was also great:

Mostly because I love the new actor for Hulk from the Avengers

Undead Scottsman

Joolander wrote: »

long shot, but I'm hoping

after suffering from his grievous bodily harm at the end of IM3, Aldrich Killian's Extremis powers go overboard in healing him and malfunction, giving him a giant head and the need to be supported by a floating chair

Man

They already made him the Mandarin, does he have to be MODOK too?

George Tarleton would be a sad panda.

Nocren

Tomanta wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Let me help you understand (not being condescending):

It's usually easier to hack into a database/server if you already have an "In" then just going straight up to the front door and knocking, so to speak.

Tony's smart enough to hack Rhode's login to grant him additional permissions and it was probably easier to do then trying to do it from scratch.

Dracomicron

Just got back. It was good. The structure was very different than normal, because it acknowledged that it was a sequel and trusted us to remember some shit.

I hope the "botanist" Extremis chick comes back somehow. I mean, she had a syringe of super-heal juice right there...

Harry Dresden

Dracomicron wrote: »

Just got back. It was good. The structure was very different than normal, because it acknowledged that it was a sequel and trusted us to remember some shit.

I hope the "botanist" Extremis chick comes back somehow. I mean, she had a syringe of super-heal juice right there...

I don't think Extremis can resurrect the dead.

Dracomicron

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Dracomicron wrote: »

Just got back. It was good. The structure was very different than normal, because it acknowledged that it was a sequel and trusted us to remember some shit.

I hope the "botanist" Extremis chick comes back somehow. I mean, she had a syringe of super-heal juice right there...

I don't think Extremis can resurrect the dead.

Well... this is a comic book movie.

Did we see her cold, unmoving corpse? As I recall, there was just a gunshot, she was down, but nobody decapitated her. She wasn't blown apart, vaporized, or ground into fine bits. If she injected herself with about a quarter of what was in that vial, I could see her coming back in a future movie.

Otherwise the inclusion of that whole character was weird. She didn't do anything, did she? Her entire purpose was to show us what a dick Guy Pierce is?

Though it definitely struck me how many deaths there were in this one compared to previous flicks in the Marvel continuity.

Tomanta

Nocren wrote: »

Tomanta wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Let me help you understand (not being condescending):

It's usually easier to hack into a database/server if you already have an "In" then just going straight up to the front door and knocking, so to speak.

Tony's smart enough to hack Rhode's login to grant him additional permissions and it was probably easier to do then trying to do it from scratch.

But

Why would Rhodes have a login to secure AIM servers at all? He'd have a login for the Iron Patriot suit, but that would be it. Those things should be completely separate, unless AIM is full of complete morons. Which clearly they aren't.

ED!

I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion but. . .what a crock of shit. Let me offer some caveats. If I had no idea about this universe outside of the theater, I would have probably thought "Wow, this was amazing. . ." Knowing the characters though - bullshit. I suppose the good thing about MARVEL Films right now is that most people don't know

who the hell The Mandarin is so a double-fake

is totally A-Ok. I imagine some folks felt the same way about Batman Begins. But Begins didn't have an antagonist plastered all over the print media and made to look like this was going to be some "real, serious take on the character. . ." Instead you get

some nonsense bioterrorist malarkey

and a pantomime of one of the best villains in comics. Just. . .in a world that now has thunder gods and alien invasions, the potential was there to tell an incredible story that was allowed to incorporate unearthly elements in it. Instead we got Iron Man 3.

Dracomicron

ED! wrote: »

Just. . .in a world that now has thunder gods and alien invasions, the potential was there to tell an incredible story that was allowed to incorporate unearthly elements in it. Instead we got Iron Man 3.

Coincidentally, this movie is actually called Iron Man 3. So... maybe that tracks?

Watch your spoilers, by the way.

Just because they had a fakeout with the Mandarin doesn't mean that there isn't an "unearthly" Mandarin-type out there. The Ten Rings is an actual terrorist organization, as presented in the first film. Guy Pierce could've been riffing off of convincing legends. If the legends turn out to be based in truth later, well, that would be something, wouldn't it?

Heir

Feral wrote: »

Tomanta wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...

Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.

I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).

The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.

Yeah, that bit stretched the limits of believability, but

Hollywood always treats network security stupidly

at least he didn't stick some gizmo on the monitor to "hack their IPs" or some technobabble nonsense

I seem to recall Tomy saying some kind of Holywood-level stupidity when he was in that TV truck. Something about needing more ISDNs or something?

General thoughts:

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "depowered" trope. I wanted to see Iron Man kicking ass and instead he has these artificial limits on him most of the time. Either the suit he's using isn't combat ready, or it's not charged enough (wtf? He's got an arc reactor, when did he need to start recharging his suit?)

Harry Dresden

ED! wrote: »

I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion but. . .what a crock of shit. Let me offer some caveats. If I had no idea about this universe outside of the theater, I would have probably thought "Wow, this was amazing. . ." Knowing the characters though - bullshit. I suppose the good thing about MARVEL Films right now is that most people don't know who the hell The Mandarin is so a double-fake is totally A-Ok. I imagine some folks felt the same way about Batman Begins. But Begins didn't have an antagonist plastered all over the print media and made to look like this was going to be some "real, serious take on the character. . ." Instead you get some nonsense bioterrorist malarkey and a pantomime of one of the best villains in comics. Just. . .in a world that now has thunder gods and alien invasions, the potential was there to tell an incredible story that was allowed to incorporate unearthly elements in it. Instead we got Iron Man 3.

Which is made worse when some depictions like the 90's Iron Man cartoon and a recent animated movie where Mandarin uses magic rings and every director in the franchise thinks he's a two dimensional racist stereotype that stopped existing decades ago in the comics. You don't see that kind of shit happening to Red Skull and they played him straight in The First Avenger.

edit: Another factor in not using Mandarin might be China's investors. Instead of having an actor from Chinese or Asian descent he's Indian. Not that Kingsley wouldn't have been extraordinary as the real Mandarin, but there are talented Asian actors qualified for the job like Ken Watanabe.

Dracomicron

Heir wrote: »

General thoughts:

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "depowered" trope. I wanted to see Iron Man kicking ass and instead he has these artificial limits on him most of the time. Either the suit he's using isn't combat ready, or it's not charged enough (wtf? He's got an arc reactor, when did he need to start recharging his suit?)

Well, that last bit actually made sense to me.

It's possible that he realized that putting his heart and his power armor on the same battery might not have been such a great idea.

Harry Dresden

Dracomicron wrote: »

Heir wrote: »

General thoughts:

I'm not a huge fan of the whole "depowered" trope. I wanted to see Iron Man kicking ass and instead he has these artificial limits on him most of the time. Either the suit he's using isn't combat ready, or it's not charged enough (wtf? He's got an arc reactor, when did he need to start recharging his suit?)

Well, that last bit actually made sense to me.

It's possible that he realized that putting his heart and his power armor on the same battery might not have been such a great idea.

Avengers spoilers

It's going to bite Stark in the ass the next time a villain tries to brainwash him with the Infinite Gem.

ED!

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Carpy

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

What parts of that trailer don't you remember?

I saw everything except for possibly the shot of the Mandarin's neck tattoo.

jdarksun

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

electricitylikesme

I'll just say I was exceedingly happy to see a movie where in fact the trailer did not give the story away!

And really, I don't care about Mandarin being an overwrought middle-eastern-type terrorist. I greatly preferred the fact that instead he was manufactured by AIM - a think tank - as a reliable way to terrify the American populace. It was really great to see a major movie do a subtle callout on the modern American media like that.