Why do we have a thread specifically for this? Didn't seem like the Marvel thread was particularly crowded...
Marvel and Movie thread were both getting a little clogged.
I loved IM3. Very few of the plot "holes" or "problems" people point out seem to be problems to me (or bother me).
The big one that does is Tony hacking into the AIM servers using Rhodey's login.
Let me help you understand (not being condescending):
It's usually easier to hack into a database/server if you already have an "In" then just going straight up to the front door and knocking, so to speak.
Tony's smart enough to hack Rhode's login to grant him additional permissions and it was probably easier to do then trying to do it from scratch.
At least it was better than Iron Man 2's charade of network security.
I'm hung up on the fact that instead of giving us a good Mandarin we instead got:
A ridiculous bioterrorist with vauge hints of Chinese influence (of course revealed at the end so people can go "Oh see. . .dragon tatoos! Mandarin!") whose motivation is so faint if you blinked you missed it. Why? Because The Mandarin is racist of some such nonsense. If they wanted to do the Extremis storyline, they should have just done it. Leave The Mandarin for another director/production team that has the competence to get beyond the whole "Oh me oh my look how outdated this guys origin story is we can't use this!" and make a real compelling foil to Tony Stark.
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I thought it was good, if not Iron Man or Avengers level.
Plotwise it felt very comic-like. An overall arc, but with side 2 or 3 parters (I can imagine in TN, the flashback or Happy trying to figure stuff out each as mini-arcs). The humor was still very strong, if the action a little disappointing. It could have been executed more crisply, but overall not a bad effort
I'm hung up on the fact that instead of giving us a good Mandarin we instead got:
A ridiculous bioterrorist with vauge hints of Chinese influence (of course revealed at the end so people can go "Oh see. . .dragon tatoos! Mandarin!") whose motivation is so faint if you blinked you missed it. Why? Because The Mandarin is racist of some such nonsense. If they wanted to do the Extremis storyline, they should have just done it. Leave The Mandarin for another director/production team that has the competence to get beyond the whole "Oh me oh my look how outdated this guys origin story is we can't use this!" and make a real compelling foil to Tony Stark.
I'm hung up on the fact that instead of giving us a good Mandarin we instead got:
A ridiculous bioterrorist with vauge hints of Chinese influence (of course revealed at the end so people can go "Oh see. . .dragon tatoos! Mandarin!") whose motivation is so faint if you blinked you missed it. Why? Because The Mandarin is racist of some such nonsense. If they wanted to do the Extremis storyline, they should have just done it. Leave The Mandarin for another director/production team that has the competence to get beyond the whole "Oh me oh my look how outdated this guys origin story is we can't use this!" and make a real compelling foil to Tony Stark.
It's not "blink and you miss it
Nope.
And the story they made was absolutely fine. That it wasn't identical to portrayals in past comics is not a mark against it.
I'm hung up on the fact that instead of giving us a good Mandarin we instead got:
A ridiculous bioterrorist with vauge hints of Chinese influence (of course revealed at the end so people can go "Oh see. . .dragon tatoos! Mandarin!") whose motivation is so faint if you blinked you missed it. Why? Because The Mandarin is racist of some such nonsense. If they wanted to do the Extremis storyline, they should have just done it. Leave The Mandarin for another director/production team that has the competence to get beyond the whole "Oh me oh my look how outdated this guys origin story is we can't use this!" and make a real compelling foil to Tony Stark.
Really?
It had nothing to do with racism. They used the Mandarin this way to toy with the status quo set by Bane and the Joker and the other poor lighting villians post Dark Knight. It was to subvert expectations. You wanted a gritty dark Iron man rises because some vague trailers were purposefully misleading. Boo hoo
Contrary to recently popular belief the Mandarin is not a great character. he's had a handful of decent stories but that's about it. If you want to pretend he was Tony's arch enemy because you saw the cartoon in the nineties I'm sorry but he's not. Also the Dragon tats were Fin Fang foom.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Here is some daily stupidity to either enjoy laughing at or suffer through.
This guy literally aid no attention to the movie. I'm not sure what he was doing- probably texting- and missed the things that explained his issues.
I know these are mostly opinions, but they're woefully underformed.
There are parts of that writeup that can't be opinions by the sheer fact that he complained about things not being explained that were clearly explained. Lack of basic comprehension skills is not an opinion.
Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.
As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.
I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.
Difference is that the Rings do not belong to the Mandarin. He did not create them, he stole them for a crashed alien space ship. Tony Stark designed and built his suits. the Rings makes him into a jumped up thug with stolen weapons. It reduces the implicit threat from a mastermind villain, to some lucky guy that stumbled on the discovery of a life time. As for his super-strength it is just superb martial arts skills that has been retconned down several times. Seeing a normal person punch through armor that bullets can't dent is stretching it a bit.
I disagree. So what if he didn't design those rings? He's still very much a threat to Iron Man with them. The man is capable of engaging in schemes that Stark can barely keep up with. He's not just a thug with advanced technology otherwise he'd never be anything but a super-powered lackey to someone else not Iron Man's arch-enemy.
They can add his super-strength to an ability the rings gave him or a plot device he had scientists reverse engineer technology from Fin Fang Foom's ship.
I'm hung up on the fact that instead of giving us a good Mandarin we instead got:
A ridiculous bioterrorist with vauge hints of Chinese influence (of course revealed at the end so people can go "Oh see. . .dragon tatoos! Mandarin!") whose motivation is so faint if you blinked you missed it. Why? Because The Mandarin is racist of some such nonsense. If they wanted to do the Extremis storyline, they should have just done it. Leave The Mandarin for another director/production team that has the competence to get beyond the whole "Oh me oh my look how outdated this guys origin story is we can't use this!" and make a real compelling foil to Tony Stark.
Really?
It had nothing to do with racism. They used the Mandarin this way to toy with the status quo set by Bane and the Joker and the other poor lighting villians post Dark Knight. It was to subvert expectations. You wanted a gritty dark Iron man rises because some vague trailers were purposefully misleading. Boo hoo
Contrary to recently popular belief the Mandarin is not a great character. he's had a handful of decent stories but that's about it. If you want to pretend he was Tony's arch enemy because you saw the cartoon in the nineties I'm sorry but he's not. Also the Dragon tats were Fin Fang foom.
Mandarin has been Iron man's arch-enemy in the comics for decades. Don't let a bad cartoon misguide you that he's completely worthless. The same cartoon did the same thing to Whiplash and he was the previous film's main villain. That cartoon is not all the Mandarin is capable of, Armored Adventures had a promising version. Have you watched that?
Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.
As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.
I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.
Difference is that the Rings do not belong to the Mandarin. He did not create them, he stole them for a crashed alien space ship. Tony Stark designed and built his suits. the Rings makes him into a jumped up thug with stolen weapons. It reduces the implicit threat from a mastermind villain, to some lucky guy that stumbled on the discovery of a life time. As for his super-strength it is just superb martial arts skills that has been retconned down several times. Seeing a normal person punch through armor that bullets can't dent is stretching it a bit.
I disagree. So what if he didn't design those rings? He's still very much a threat to Iron Man with them. The man is capable of engaging in schemes that Stark can barely keep up with. He's not just a thug with advanced technology otherwise he'd never be anything but a super-powered lackey to someone else not Iron Man's arch-enemy.
They can add his super-strength to an ability the rings gave him or a plot device he had scientists reverse engineer technology from Fin Fang Foom's ship.
And its the Mandarin's schemes that are the cool part of him. You say so yourself. Not the Rings. Therefore the rings are not necessary. A true Mandarin portrayal should focus on his intellect, his ability to lead a group and to plot schemes that attack Tony from unexpected angels.
Like I have said again and again, The Mandarin with the rings is just some guy that got lucky. The Mandarin without the rings is somebody that uses his intellect, leadership and plots to become a viable threat to Tony.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.
As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.
I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.
Difference is that the Rings do not belong to the Mandarin. He did not create them, he stole them for a crashed alien space ship. Tony Stark designed and built his suits. the Rings makes him into a jumped up thug with stolen weapons. It reduces the implicit threat from a mastermind villain, to some lucky guy that stumbled on the discovery of a life time. As for his super-strength it is just superb martial arts skills that has been retconned down several times. Seeing a normal person punch through armor that bullets can't dent is stretching it a bit.
I disagree. So what if he didn't design those rings? He's still very much a threat to Iron Man with them. The man is capable of engaging in schemes that Stark can barely keep up with. He's not just a thug with advanced technology otherwise he'd never be anything but a super-powered lackey to someone else not Iron Man's arch-enemy.
They can add his super-strength to an ability the rings gave him or a plot device he had scientists reverse engineer technology from Fin Fang Foom's ship.
And its the Mandarin's schemes that are the cool part of him. You say so yourself. Not the Rings. Therefore the rings are not necessary. A true Mandarin portrayal should focus on his intellect, his ability to lead a group and to plot schemes that attack Tony from unexpected angels.
Like I have said again and again, The Mandarin with the rings is just some guy that got lucky. The Mandarin without the rings is somebody that uses his intellect, leadership and plots to become a viable threat to Tony.
The rings give him an edge over anyone he fights. Not everybody could use those rings to their utmost potential unlike Mandarin IMO. His brain is his greatest weapon but the rings are his trump card. He can be both lucky to find those rings and a criminal mastermind that makes Stark sweat over his world domination schemes.
edit:
The Mandarin's concept from the beginning was that he can take Iron Man in a fight with his alien rings and be smart enough to outwit Stark. It was never one or the other, it was both simultanously. Taking the rings away doesn't make him smarter and having the rings doesn't make him dumber.
They used the Mandarin this way to toy with the status quo set by Bane and the Joker and the other poor lighting villians post Dark Knight. It was to subvert expectations. You wanted a gritty dark Iron man rises because some vague trailers were purposefully misleading. Boo hoo
Yes. Absolutely. Moar Batman! That totally explains any criticism people could possibly have for the movie. . .I mean really, how much of a MARVEL Booster do you have to be really think that possibly holds any water?
"We're subverting expectations here people! This is really just all a commentary on the dark and gritty tone of these movies we really wish we could have made. Now go home and feel smarter since you've caught that and we can keep pretending we made the best movie we could have."
There are parts of that writeup that can't be opinions by the sheer fact that he complained about things not being explained that were clearly explained. Lack of basic comprehension skills is not an opinion.
Such as? About the only ones I can possibly pick out are:
The Pepper characterization and Tony controlling IM - because really why would he design a system that someone else could use, so it's probably not as simple as someone else strapping in. It does ask the question "Why would Tony put the suit on at all. . ." beyond fidelity issues.
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
huh
maybe
that's what AIM did for the Iron Patriot suit
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
huh
maybe
that's what AIM did for the Iron Patriot suit
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
Tie-in comics don't count. If it isn't in the movie it never happened.
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
huh
maybe
that's what AIM did for the Iron Patriot suit
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
Tie-in comics don't count. If it isn't in the movie it never happened.
Not necassarily; the $40 Avengers artbook has a timeline that utilizes official MCU tie-ins. Plus it covers up the plot hole of where the fuck did Tony get the Mark 2 armor back.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
huh
maybe
that's what AIM did for the Iron Patriot suit
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
Yeah, you hear him talking to a support team a couple times, I figure he's got that in place of an AI. I liked the idea posted in the Marvel thread that AIM aren't capable of reverse engineering their own shit into the suit past Tony's authorized upgrades, so the reason they gotta get close and ambush Rhodes to shut the suit down and then need to heat it to open it is a case of them stick a couple weird commands in somewhere they won't be noticed, like "if right hand gets hot, shut suit down" but taking control of the whole thing and being able to tell it to shut down or open is beyond them.
I'd like to see Ghost in an Iron Man movie, like was rumored early on with this one
not as the main villain, but still featured
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
huh
maybe
that's what AIM did for the Iron Patriot suit
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
Tie-in comics don't count. If it isn't in the movie it never happened.
ok, fine
we still know that Tony had to design Rhodey's new suit from the movie, since Tony asks "Who did your big re-brand? It was AIM right?" which means AIM did the paintjob and a few other things like their "heat up the belly" open up the suit trick, and not build the thing. And as far as we know, only Stark Industries, Hammer Industries, and AIM would possibly have the capability of doing so; AIM is eliminated from dialogue (mentioned above), and Hammer is out because we've both seen their incompetence and the fact that the government has shut them down from IM2
since we know that he maintains radio contact with his superiors most of the time, we can surmise that Rhodey probably only gets to fire weapons under authorization. If he has no AI in the suit (which he doesn't--at least not one that shows up in any capacity on film) The best way to do that and give Rhodey access to the stuff he needs would be with some dude at a console back at base that can do it remotely (technology that actually exists)
I'm not a marvel booster because I used a comparison to a film in the same genre.
If you can't see the parallels between the Mandarin in the trailers and Nolans Batman films in particular Rises I don't know what to tell you dawg
I get that you didn't like the movie but you're being kind of silly at this point.
Sure dawg. That's what they were doing. I mean clear as day; shame that I'm the only one in Internetdom that doesn't get it. Holler if you are hearing me.
If you have to have other people explain it, it probably wasn't done very well. But regardless of how one feels about the character treatment, thank goodness they had the good sense to make sure they have a cogent villain waiting in the wings that wasn't a retread of the first two films previous villains.
I'm not a marvel booster because I used a comparison to a film in the same genre.
If you can't see the parallels between the Mandarin in the trailers and Nolans Batman films in particular Rises I don't know what to tell you dawg
I get that you didn't like the movie but you're being kind of silly at this point.
Sure dawg. That's what they were doing. I mean clear as day; shame that I'm the only one in Internetdom that doesn't get it. Holler if you are hearing me.
If you have to have other people explain it, it probably wasn't done very well.
Nah they did it fine. You just missed it. It's okay though. It happens.
Heating up the belly didn't open the suit, Rhodes did because the alternative was get broiled alive.
Nah, he's saying "do not open" and then there's a little beeping noise and he's all "OK then lets do this!" and comes out swinging, but it's not his idea to jump out.
Nah they did it fine. You just missed it. It's okay though. It happens.
So basically anything "gritty. . ." that MARVEL does that falls flat is really just a deconstruction of the "superhero movie. . ." that DC has done (which is really only valid for like one of the three movies), and not at all a sign of lazy/misleading marketing meant to cover up a weakly handled plot device.
Nah they did it fine. You just missed it. It's okay though. It happens.
So basically anything "gritty. . ." that MARVEL does that falls flat is really just a deconstruction of the "superhero movie. . ." that DC has done (which is really only valid for like one of the three movies), and not at all a sign of lazy/misleading marketing meant to cover up a weakly handled plot device.
Nope.
No need to be a goose and start strawmanning either.
Posts
At least it was better than Iron Man 2's charade of network security.
Here is some daily stupidity to either enjoy laughing at or suffer through.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Nope.
And the story they made was absolutely fine. That it wasn't identical to portrayals in past comics is not a mark against it.
Really?
Contrary to recently popular belief the Mandarin is not a great character. he's had a handful of decent stories but that's about it. If you want to pretend he was Tony's arch enemy because you saw the cartoon in the nineties I'm sorry but he's not. Also the Dragon tats were Fin Fang foom.
oh no
my brain!
no but really I have no idea
I know these are mostly opinions, but they're woefully underformed.
They can add his super-strength to an ability the rings gave him or a plot device he had scientists reverse engineer technology from Fin Fang Foom's ship.
Restrictions on the free market.
not as the main villain, but still featured
Like I have said again and again, The Mandarin with the rings is just some guy that got lucky. The Mandarin without the rings is somebody that uses his intellect, leadership and plots to become a viable threat to Tony.
Ghost tends to be a henchman so yeah that'd be cool.
Something I noticed though it was more clear in IM2. Rhodey doesn't seem to have an AI in his suit. Which is odd because it seems ike Jarvis does almost everything for Tony on the fly.
edit:
"We're subverting expectations here people! This is really just all a commentary on the dark and gritty tone of these movies we really wish we could have made. Now go home and feel smarter since you've caught that and we can keep pretending we made the best movie we could have."
Such as? About the only ones I can possibly pick out are:
huh
maybe
we know from the tie-in comic that Tony built the new suit for Rhodey, but maybe the the government contracted AIM to make it link up with a command and control center at a USAF base, like how drones are controlled
I get that you didn't like the movie but you're being kind of silly at this point.
ok, fine
since we know that he maintains radio contact with his superiors most of the time, we can surmise that Rhodey probably only gets to fire weapons under authorization. If he has no AI in the suit (which he doesn't--at least not one that shows up in any capacity on film) The best way to do that and give Rhodey access to the stuff he needs would be with some dude at a console back at base that can do it remotely (technology that actually exists)
If you have to have other people explain it, it probably wasn't done very well. But regardless of how one feels about the character treatment, thank goodness they had the good sense to make sure they have a cogent villain waiting in the wings that wasn't a retread of the first two films previous villains.
Nah they did it fine. You just missed it. It's okay though. It happens.
then why
Ironman 1 and 2 were both extremely mediocre films, which were elevated by their great cast and chemistry.
Ironman 3 is on a different level.
Though I guess because I missed it it's a complete failing on the movie's part, not mine.
So basically anything "gritty. . ." that MARVEL does that falls flat is really just a deconstruction of the "superhero movie. . ." that DC has done (which is really only valid for like one of the three movies), and not at all a sign of lazy/misleading marketing meant to cover up a weakly handled plot device.
Got it.
Nope.
No need to be a goose and start strawmanning either.