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[DnD 5e/Next Discussion] Turns out Liches are a problem after all.

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    laservisioncatlaservisioncat Registered User regular
    I'm not familiar with him, but the worst I found out about him was that he derails sexism topics by arguing like a goose. He has a pretty bad grasp of logic and how to argue without being a dick to everyone, and tends to give sexist things the benefit of the doubt, but I wouldn't really say he's a sexist/transphobic/homophobic from what I've seen.

    The RPG pundit on the other hand is just as bad as the article says and worse.

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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    1. All skills can be trained by all classes (in equal amounts)
    This is the one that has always weirded me out.

    So there's a guy who can turn into a bear and cast spells, and he theoretically learned all this in the same amount of time that this other guy learned to swing a sword. How in the hell does bear-guy have more opportunity to learn mundane skills? It seems like the person who wasn't meditating with woodland creatures would maybe have spent some of their off time talking to people or reading a book.

    This is exactly my issue with it, as mentioned. Get rid of "Class Skills." Let people take whatever skill they want. They'll trail behind if they don't focus that ability score, but at least they can decide they want their character to have a certain personality instead of forcing all Fighters to be the "bang head into wall" stupid variety.

    Or hell, maybe I want to be a Rogue that doesn't have stealth? Maybe my Rogue is just a tinker, who uses knowledge and thievery to break and build shit instead of always trying to be a sneak?

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    1. All skills can be trained by all classes (in equal amounts)
    This is the one that has always weirded me out.

    So there's a guy who can turn into a bear and cast spells, and he theoretically learned all this in the same amount of time that this other guy learned to swing a sword. How in the hell does bear-guy have more opportunity to learn mundane skills? It seems like the person who wasn't meditating with woodland creatures would maybe have spent some of their off time talking to people or reading a book.

    This is exactly my issue with it, as mentioned. Get rid of "Class Skills." Let people take whatever skill they want. They'll trail behind if they don't focus that ability score, but at least they can decide they want their character to have a certain personality instead of forcing all Fighters to be the "bang head into wall" stupid variety.

    Or hell, maybe I want to be a Rogue that doesn't have stealth? Maybe my Rogue is just a tinker, who uses knowledge and thievery to break and build shit instead of always trying to be a sneak?

    *Looks at 13th Age's "Player Created Backgrounds as Skills" and sighs.*

    Really love that idea and want to see more of it but it is way too "hippy" to get taken in by mainline D&D.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    I thought 5ed had a guide for creating your own backgrounds with skills and languages and shiz

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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    I thought 5ed had a guide for creating your own backgrounds with skills and languages and shiz

    That is an inverse kind of function of what 13th Age does. What you're describing is taking the mechanical stuff (skills and languages and whatever else you put into a background in 5e) and packaging them into a background, which is nice and fine. 13th Age backgrounds, however, get rid of the mechanical entities like codified skills and class skills entirely and tell you the player, simply, "list some background stuff for your character and put points into them". So I might create a Fighter with backgrounds like "Nosy former cook for the Mages Guild +4", "Premiere traveling circus strongman +2", and "Unexpectedly well-read military strategist +2". It's then up to me to sell the GM on when those bonuses apply to standard ability checks. Need to dink around with a magic item and the mage is unconscious? Sometimes the fighter's curiosity would get the best of him and he'd play with found wondrous items, so he gets the +4. Or maybe he's actually cooking something, so that +4 works there too. Or if the party needs to infiltrate the Guild, who best to draft the plan but the fighter? Need to work a crowd? Use the circus +2. And so on.

    The point is that it gets rid of class skills because there are no skills, you just state what your character is good at (by way of descriptive backgrounds). Also, in the default rules, all classes get the same amount of background points.

    3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam: bsstephan Twitch: bsstephan
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Point of order, I'm not sure the 13th Age backgrounds are supposed to be quite that specific, and in general the section could use a bit of expanding.

    But yeah 13th Age backgrounds are pretty great.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    That's true. They're a bit more specific than I'd try to make them, out of a need for quick illustrative examples. I'd usually make the titles a notch or two more general and then put the background details in a writeup.

    But yeah, all in all it's really an example of how I end up feeling about 5e in general --- I see the elements and go "yeah, that looks [range of assessments from "dumb" to "alright"] --- I vaguely remember when this seemed like a sensible way to do things rather than [modern game's approach]".

    3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam: bsstephan Twitch: bsstephan
    Tabletop:13th Age (mm-mmm), D&D 4e
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also do note the feedback loop between "My character wants to use this background" and "You learn more about my character". Why does "Grizzled Sergeant" apply to coming up with a plan for sneaking somebody out of a brothel? Well let me tell you about the time my squad almost got nicked by an over eager officer...

    It places the onus on the player to tell us how his character would approach the situation, it tells us bit by bit how the player views the character and about his history. You can write up as many pages as you want about your character and I will not give a shit. If you gradually show me what makes him who he is in interesting ways you will have my attention.

    The second bit this address is that actual life experience tends to not be easily encapsulated. What roll does a character make to know how to fence a nice necklace and what price he should expect? Appraise, Bluff, Streetwise? How about 2nd Storey Man. What if I want to raise up a group of caravan guards, manage the wagons and handle all the provisioning for them? Diplomacy, Animal Handling and uh, well we don't have a Logistics skill... should we make one? How many ranks are going to be needed to not starve everybody to death? Uh, well, "Caravan Master" was really just an idea if it's gonna take so many points to make it work I think I'll do something else...

    ...how about a fighter?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    ArdentArdent Down UpsideRegistered User regular
    Grizzled Sergeant applies to every possible scenario, just to be clear. That's something everyone who has served knows. If you got a problem? Yo, sarge'll solve it.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    If you got a problem? Yo, sarge'll solve it.
    Check out this plot before the Wizard resolves it.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    If you got a problem? Yo, sarge'll solve it.
    Check out this plot before the Wizard resolves it.

    Ice Storm, baby...

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    So fast, all the casters say 'daaamn'

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2cr67r/5e_someone_has_already_gotten_their_copy_of_the/

    Some guy got an early copy of the Player Handbook, has been answering questions.

    Collected info, spoilered for Very Long:
    GENERAL
    The Book Itself:
    ~320 pages, really good index, thin but slick paper.
    Multiclassing:
    Ability score prerequisites,
    You only gain some of the proficiencies of the new class,
    Your spell slots are based on total character level (spellcasting classes only),
    Spells known and prepared are based on individual caster level,
    Certain class features do not stack or have special rules (Extra Attack, Channel Divinity, Unarmored Defense).
    Lore & Planes:
    Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Eberron, Nonhuman Deities, Celtic, Greek, Egyptian, Norse. Includes evil deities. Death domain is the only one not included in the PHB (probably in the DMG).
    Appendix C shows the new cosmology for D&D, mixture of the great Wheel and the 4e cosmology.
    Elemental Planes and Elemental Chaos are part of the Inner Planes.
    Beast Appendix:
    8 pages, beasts and mounts, familiars, and a couple undead.
    Things a player would need for their character, basic stats only.
    BACKGROUNDS
    Outlander:
    Skill: Athletics, Survival
    Tool: One musical instrument
    Language: Choose one
    Feature: Wanderer (memory for maps and geography, recall terrain, find food and water)
    Sailor:
    Skill: Athletics, Perception
    Tool: Navigator's tools, vehicles (water)
    Feature: Ship's Passage (secure free passage on sailing ship)
    FEATS
    Dual Wielder:
    +1 AC when using two melee weapons,
    Can wield weapons that aren't light,
    Can draw or stow two weapons instead of one.
    Lightly Armored:
    +1 to Strength or Dexterity (maximum 20), gives proficiency with light armor.
    Martial Adept:
    Gives 2 battlemaster maneuvers and a superiority die.
    Great Weapon Master:
    When you drop a creature or score a critical hit, can take an extra attack as a bonus action, and -5 attack for +10 damage
    Heavy Armor Master:
    +1 Strength, -3 damage from piercing, bludgeoning, slashing damage from non magical weapons
    Resilient:
    +1 in attribute, +1 proficiency in any saving throw.
    Warcaster:
    Has advantage on Constitution saves when taking damage to maintain Concentration,
    Don't need a free hand for somatic components of spells,
    Can cast a single target, one action spell instead of your opportunity attack

    BARBARIAN
    Barbarian Rage:
    Resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage when you enter a rage.
    Reckless Attack:
    Advantage on your attacks this turn, but advantage on attacks against you too (even when in rage apparently, might be a misunderstanding though)
    BARD
    Bardic Inspiration:
    Affects one creature other than yourself and you can use it Charisma modifier times per long rest.
    College of Valor:
    Bonus Proficiencies, Combat Inspiration (add Inspiration die to damage or AC), Extra Attack, Battle Magic.
    CLERIC
    Knowledge Domain:
    Gives lots of bonus divination spells (some from the wizard list), double proficiency bonus on two skills, Channel Divinity (Knowledge of the Ages and Read Thoughts), Potent Spellcasting, and Visions of the Past (Object Reading and Area Reading).
    Tempest Domain:
    Gives bonus Proficiencies, Wrath of Storm (rebuke attackers), Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath, Thunderbolt Strike, Divine Strike (thunder damage), Stormborn (flying when outdoors).
    Trickery Domain:
    Gives some illusion and disguise spells, Blessing of the Trickster (give one creature advantage on Stealth checks), Channel Divinity: invoke Duplicity (illusion double), Channel Divinity: Cloak of Shadows, Divine Strike (extra poison damage), Improved Duplicity.
    Gods & Religion:
    Forgotten Realms gods are well represented. They include ones that had previously died like Bhaal and Myrkul. There's a list of Eberron gods and other faiths. Also the non human deities are very well represented as well, including Surtur and Thrym.
    Suggested Domains:
    Mostly one suggested domain per deity, sometimes two. Lolth (trickery), Kemelvor (death), Iuz (death), Shar (death & trickery), Set (death, tempest & trickery).
    DRUID
    Circle of the Moon:
    Combat Wild Shape (Wild Shape as a bonus action, expend spell slots to regain hit points), and Circle Forms (higher CR of creatures you can Wild Shape into, starts at CR 1 and goes up).
    Circle Forms (page 69): "Starting at 6th level, you can transform into a beast with a challenge rating as high as your druid level divided by 3, rounded down".
    Otherwise, it seems it is maximum of CR 1 for non-Circle of the Moon druids.
    FIGHTER
    BattleMaster:
    All Battle Master maneuvers (total 16) have no level requirement.
    Maneuvers are generally universal, though some of them are melee specific (as opposed to ranged).
    4 superiority dice, up to 6 total.
    One maneuver can frighten craeature, another can give friendly creature temporary hitpoints, one can add reach & damage.
    No way to recover superiority dice without resting, except for:
    Relentless (lv15): Regain 1 superiority die when you roll initiative and have no superiority dice remaining.
    Eldritch Knight (Subclass at lv3):
    Evocation & Abjuration spells only
    MONK
    Hit Die: 1d8
    Flurry of Blows:
    Costs 1 Ki and allows the monk two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.
    The Way of the Four Elements**:
    Monastic tradition allowing to use their ki to duplicate certain spells and effects (not all of them are from the spell lists).
    PALADIN
    Saving throws: Wisdom & Charisma
    Improved Divine Smite:
    +1d8 radiant damage with EVERY melee hit (stack w/Divine Smite)
    RANGER
    Favored Enemy:
    Favored Enemy applies to Wisdom (Survival) and Intelligence checks related to your favored enemy.
    Ranger Archetypes:
    Colossus Slayer (extra damage to an injured creature),
    Giant Killer (reaction to attack a Large or larger creature that attacks you),
    Horde Breaker (attack a second creature).
    Hunter Ranger:
    Hunter's Prey (3rd), Defensive Tactics (7th), Multiattack (11th), Superior Hunter's Defense (15th).
    Primeval Awareness:
    Expend a spell slot to gain creature awareness 1 mile around you. Duration is 1 minute per level of spell slot expended.
    ROGUE
    Assassin Archetype:
    Assassin's get Assassinate lvl3 (advantage against someone who has not acted in combat / autocrit vs surprised creature (unsure)), Death Strike (17th level, save or double damage vs. surprised creature).
    SORCERER
    Sorcerer MetaMagic:
    Sorcerer metamagic uses Sorcery points that you use when casting a spell. For example, when you have spell that normally take an action, you can spend 2 sorcery points to cast it as a bonus action if you took the Quicken metamagic ability. There's 8 options for metamagic.
    Twinned Spell (metamagic) costs 1 sorcery point for cantrips. Careful Spell (metamagic) allows you to have a creature automatically succeed a saving throw, that is all.
    Spell List:
    Very similar to Wizards', but with less utility (Alarm spell is Wizard exclusive, for instance).
    WARLOCK
    General Feeling:
    "The warlock seems really versatile. You could focus on very different things, and have a different play experience. The difference in the patrons combined with the different pacts also seems well done. I came up with 5 different character ideas based on different combinations of pact and patron."
    Spell Slots Replenishment:
    After a short (or a long) rest.
    Eldritch Invocations:
    Total of 32 minor class features, some have spell or level requirements. For instance:
    Agonizing Blast
    Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast cantrip (1d10 force damage)
    When you cast Eldritch Blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage dealt.
    Entropic Ward:
    Deflect ranged attacks. Usable once per rest (short or long), also turns a miss into an advantage.
    Eldritch Master (lv20):
    Spend 1 minute to regain all your expended spell slots (from Pact Magic), once per long rest.
    The Great Old One Patron:
    give telepathy, Entropic Ward (impose disadvantage as reaction), Thought Shield (thoughts cannot be read, resistance to psychic damage), Create Thrall (infect a humanoid to charm them).
    Pact of the Blade:
    Gain a weapon which counts as magical for purpose of overcoming resistance and immunities has two invocations specifically meant for it, Lifedrinker (lv12, extra Necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier) and Thirsting Blade (attack with pact weapon twice). You are now also able to bond a magic weapon as your pact weapon. In all regards this magic weapon will be treated as your pact weapon.
    Pact of the Chain:
    Gain find familiar spell, select a special form for familiar, forgo one of your own attacks to allow familiar to attack.
    Fey Pact:
    Fey Presence, Misty Escape (turn invisible and teleport), Beguiling Defenses (immune to being charmed, reaction to charm back), Dark Delirium.
    WIZARD
    Necromancy:
    School of Necromancy has Necromancy Savant, Grim Harvest, Undead Thralls, Injured to Undeath, and Command Undead features.
    Undead Thralls: Add animate dead to spellbook and target one additional corpse or pile of bones, created undead maximum hit points increased and proficiency bonus to damage rolls.
    Spells Trivia:
    There is a 6th level necromancy spell called Magic Jar in 5E. Duration is until dispelled.
    Polymorph exists in this Edition.
    6 total summoning spells (i.e. conjure animals, conjure elemental, etc.)

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Polymorph exists in this Edition.

    I can't wait to see that.

    Actually, I'm not even certain I'm being sarcastic here. The one area where a simplistic approach is probably needed to make it workable is polymorph magic. Even 3.x ended up there.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    I gotta say, I like the sound of the warlock over pretty much anything else. Maybe it's just them being a "younger" class than the others, but it feels like they were more willing to experiment.

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    Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    It sounds the most like a 4E class

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    If they wanted to really simplify things, they should've dropped OAs entirely, and all reaction-related stuff. That's one of the few things I can't stand in 4E. Combat gets really bogged down once every player is glancing over their sheet during every action to see what reaction abilities to use.

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    Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    I've run 100% Reaction-based systems with combat that lasted about 1/4th of what it took in 4E. The problems were more due to the grid (takes too long to draw maps, plan movements and attack ranges, etc) and, at higher levels, the large volume of options available in a given round (and all the extra dice, math, counting, modifiers, etc).

    Fleur de Alys on
    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Those are actually the bits I like the most about 4E, because it feels like positioning is important. I could understand maybe reducing Immediates a bit, given that, as you said, those drag out combat (since they are all different and everyone has different triggers), but OAs are pretty straight forward (if you move or use a range/area power, people get a swing at you).

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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    The Sauce wrote: »
    I've run 100% Reaction-based systems with combat that lasted about 1/4th of what it took in 4E. The problems were more due to the grid (takes too long to draw maps, plan movements and attack ranges, etc) and, at higher levels, the large volume of options available in a given round (and all the extra dice, math, counting, modifiers, etc).

    And people just not knowing their character (which is partly due to number of options). When every week people are still going 'wait, I think I got something.. *rustles through pages of character sheet* just one second I think it's...' that's what drags the game on. Things like OAs that are well defined are easy; you provoke, Soandso gets a swing.

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    Joe DizzyJoe Dizzy taking the day offRegistered User regular
    Since there was absolutely nothing to do at the office, I decided to print out the basic rules and roll up a character at home. I came away with Helm Evenwood, human cleric of Apollo, domain of Life. It took me about an hour (while entertaining my two-year old). I like the simplicity of the basic rules. I doubt I'll pick up a PHB or anything of the kind. I might even run a few games for my board game group just for the hell of it. (And also to see how well I can impersonate Abed Nadir.)

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Pretty down with that Warlock. Pact of the Blade here I come.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Also, was this mentioned?

    Warcaster:
    Has advantage on Constitution saves when taking damage to maintain Concentration,
    Don't need a free hand for somatic components of spells,
    Can cast a single target, one action spell instead of your opportunity attack

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    @Tox I think that was "leaked" a little earlier.

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Still, pretty happy with that feat, gotta say.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    As a feat tax for playing one of the melee mage classes it's pretty baller.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    yeah, after reading the Stormlight Archive a bunch, I'm totes going to be rocking a blade pact warlock.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage when you enter a rage.!!!

    Thank goodness.

    Barbarian in the last playtest packet lacked this and instead gained like +level temporary HP.
    It was awful.

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    Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Orange County, CARegistered User regular
    thank goodness indeed

    that should help him buy more time for the Wizard to win the encounter!

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Hey!
    It's fun charging blindly at minions with impunity and frustrating the wizard as you break the nice AoE target into several melee squalls.

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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    discrider wrote: »
    Hey!
    It's fun charging blindly at minions with impunity and frustrating the wizard as you break the nice AoE target into several melee squalls.

    I think you just gave me a reason to consider non-4E versions; build a character that screws with the wizard as much as possible.

    am0n on
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    laservisioncatlaservisioncat Registered User regular
    Wait, the basic rules didn't have all the spells?!

    And here I was wondering where like, half the save and dies were. I really want them to do polymorph well, since it's the most wizardy spell ever and I was always sad at the lack of transmutation magic in 4e.

    Also, holy crap the advantage mechanic is used a lot.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also, holy crap the advantage mechanic is used a lot.

    I'm still trying to decide if I like how swingy the bonus is. The percentage increase in hitting can vary from about 5% to 25%.

    Look, a chart!
    5e%20Advantage.png

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Barbarian I think is a bit of column A and a bit of Column B. It has to be, because if you say they are animal types, then what is the ranger? And what would make the Shaman different than the Druid? How is a Rogue's out of combat skillset different than an Assassin? To me, Barbarian is the fighter equivalent to the primal world as fighter is to the civilized world. And I think there is going to be overlap with every class, just because there are so many.
    It should be noted, I think, that the Barbarian as it's own class is only two editions old. Before that it was a Fighter kit. Shaman, likewise, is rather recent and previously would have just been a different flavor of Druid, which was itself a variant Cleric. Assassin used to be a Rogue kit, trading thieve's cant and decipher script for deathblow and poison use.

    Most of the "mixed bag" classes used to be minor tweaks on the core 4, but then they gained a life of their own as D&D became more character-option heavy. There's no real reason they couldn't go back to being subclasses.

    Barb was in the first UA. Though it existed as a class pretty much exclusively because of Conan.
    Interesting. Then it must have been downgraded to kit sometime after that.

    Still, a Conan-style Barbarian is pretty much exactly a D&D Fighter. Just a little more naked and a lot more charming.

    This is a week old at this point, but I thought I'd point out that this wrong.

    The barbarian was introduced as a class in 1st Ed AD&D. (The ranger was in there too.) The acrobat and cavalier were the two classes introduced in UA.

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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    Advantage is one of the mechanics I actually really like, especially compared to adding more bonuses to stuff that you need to remember all the time.

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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Advantage is one of the mechanics I actually really like, especially compared to adding more bonuses to stuff that you need to remember all the time.

    I think this is what they were going for. Instead of having to figure out, "Okay, my normal bonus is +10, I have CA, so +2, soandso gave me a +1 power, then I get this other +1 because of this and another +2 because of..." you can just say "I have a +10 with advantage." You roll twice, take the higher, add 10.

    At least, that's my understanding of the intended purpose. We'll know for sure once powers and spells start throwing around random bonuses again.

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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Also, holy crap the advantage mechanic is used a lot.

    I'm still trying to decide if I like how swingy the bonus is. The percentage increase in hitting can vary from about 5% to 25%.

    Look, a chart!
    5e%20Advantage.png

    In terms of statistics, Advantage is the equivalent of a ~+3.3 bonus, where disadvantage is ~-3.3 bonus. I.e., instead of the d20 being an average of 10.5, with advantage your average roll is a 13.8 versus disadvantage where the average is 7.2.

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    LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    am0n wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Hey!
    It's fun charging blindly at minions with impunity and frustrating the wizard as you break the nice AoE target into several melee squalls.

    I think you just gave me a reason to consider non-4E versions; build a character that screws with the wizard as much as possible.

    How does it screw with the Wizard to dive headfirst into his AoE? Just wasting your turn hanging out in the Solid Fog or Rape Tentacles.

    Lanlaorn on
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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Here are the plots I have:

    Spoilered for semi big.
    jajk11.png

    Again, if you take those "likelihood change" plots and find a single line with equal "area under the curve," it's come out to be about a ±3.3 bonus. Or you can just figure out the count for each roll combination and see that the weighted average comes out to be 13.8 and 7.2 instead of 10.5.

    am0n on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    zenpotato wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Barbarian I think is a bit of column A and a bit of Column B. It has to be, because if you say they are animal types, then what is the ranger? And what would make the Shaman different than the Druid? How is a Rogue's out of combat skillset different than an Assassin? To me, Barbarian is the fighter equivalent to the primal world as fighter is to the civilized world. And I think there is going to be overlap with every class, just because there are so many.
    It should be noted, I think, that the Barbarian as it's own class is only two editions old. Before that it was a Fighter kit. Shaman, likewise, is rather recent and previously would have just been a different flavor of Druid, which was itself a variant Cleric. Assassin used to be a Rogue kit, trading thieve's cant and decipher script for deathblow and poison use.

    Most of the "mixed bag" classes used to be minor tweaks on the core 4, but then they gained a life of their own as D&D became more character-option heavy. There's no real reason they couldn't go back to being subclasses.

    Barb was in the first UA. Though it existed as a class pretty much exclusively because of Conan.
    Interesting. Then it must have been downgraded to kit sometime after that.

    Still, a Conan-style Barbarian is pretty much exactly a D&D Fighter. Just a little more naked and a lot more charming.

    This is a week old at this point, but I thought I'd point out that this wrong.

    The barbarian was introduced as a class in 1st Ed AD&D. (The ranger was in there too.) The acrobat and cavalier were the two classes introduced in UA.

    Nope. If you're going to take a week to point out an error you might want to take a couple seconds and fact check first. A quick wiki would show your memory playing you false.

    Though interestingly a version appeared in White Dwarf first. Which is interesting because I didn't realize GW was that old mainly.
    am0n wrote: »
    In terms of statistics, Advantage is the equivalent of a ~+3.3 bonus, where disadvantage is ~-3.3 bonus. I.e., instead of the d20 being an average of 10.5, with advantage your average roll is a 13.8 versus disadvantage where the average is 7.2.

    I will give 5th edition this: Advantage feels more awesome than a +3.3 bonus. Of course, this mean Disadvantage feels far worse than a -3.3 modifier.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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