These lies told to the American population has made it impossible for us to do true Dawa. Why do we have to defend our religion while doing Dawa? Why can’t we just share the perfection of the Quran and the beauty of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SWS)?
Yeah, seems they're looking for limitations on speech. Speech they consider to be libel or slander, mind you ("lies")...but if that's the case, they need to pursue it in court. We already limit libel and slander, we don't need stricter limits on libel and slander against Islam so these chucklefucks can get their Dawa on.
English definitely isn't the first language of the guy heading up AMPAC. Even that said, he's not particularly articulate about what he wants or why. So it's not helping matters.
They also look to have a video from the 9-11 truther movement (i.e. that hole in the Pentagon not being supposedly real).
English definitely isn't the first language of the guy heading up AMPAC. Even that said, he's not particularly articulate about what he wants or why. So it's not helping matters.
They also look to have a video from the 9-11 truther movement (i.e. that hole in the Pentagon not being supposedly real).
So yes, I'm inclined to make wank-off gestures.
That any organization except either direct victims/survivors of the 9/11/2001 attacks or maybe police and firefighters would decide to hold their demonstration on the eleventh of September inclines me to disregard them as chucklefucks out of hand.
That they apparently think we need to exercise greater prior restraint on speech and the press to prevent supposed "libel and slander" against Islam (that they are apparently unable to substantiate in court) just verifies that this was the right decision.
Good luck with your million chucklefuck march, all 300 or so of you. I genuinely hope that this particular band of chucklefucks don't manage to be actively counterproductive by inciting further antagonism towards Islam and Muslims as a whole. But, you know, it's pretty likely.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
English definitely isn't the first language of the guy heading up AMPAC. Even that said, he's not particularly articulate about what he wants or why. So it's not helping matters.
They also look to have a video from the 9-11 truther movement (i.e. that hole in the Pentagon not being supposedly real).
So yes, I'm inclined to make wank-off gestures.
I decided to see what this AMPAC stood for and uhm.... this is not the organisation anyone should be supporting yo.
English definitely isn't the first language of the guy heading up AMPAC. Even that said, he's not particularly articulate about what he wants or why. So it's not helping matters.
They also look to have a video from the 9-11 truther movement (i.e. that hole in the Pentagon not being supposedly real).
So yes, I'm inclined to make wank-off gestures.
I decided to see what this AMPAC stood for and uhm.... this is not the organisation anyone should be supporting yo.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
Maybe America isn't for you.
I suppose not.
The history of the Jewish-Zionist lobby AIPAC shows that it is more effective to be “radical” and express one's views strongly and honestly, than to be fearful and timid. The best defense is a good offense. Most of our seemingly “radical” positions are closely aligned with the views of the majority of the American people, who oppose the 9/11 wars, want to cut military spending, dislike the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional laws, and hate big bankster usury. Polls even show that 36% of the American people think it is likely that 9/11 was a false-flag operation! That is more people than voted for President Obama.
It's an interesting cross-topic: I mean, where did the idea of the 'Jewish-Zionist conspiracy' come from? Out of the head of Zeus one afternoon? Or as a result of racist propaganda and bullshit? It's exactly the type of crap that a laissez faire attitude towards free speech encourages, often while shutting down minority voices of reason that aren't thought of as interesting or entertaining enough to hold the floor.
Damn right it isn't for me.
Enjoy your Truthers, Limbaughs and Phelps's. God knows they're the poor victims in need of legal protection.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
Maybe America isn't for you.
I suppose not.
The history of the Jewish-Zionist lobby AIPAC shows that it is more effective to be “radical” and express one's views strongly and honestly, than to be fearful and timid. The best defense is a good offense. Most of our seemingly “radical” positions are closely aligned with the views of the majority of the American people, who oppose the 9/11 wars, want to cut military spending, dislike the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional laws, and hate big bankster usury. Polls even show that 36% of the American people think it is likely that 9/11 was a false-flag operation! That is more people than voted for President Obama.
It's an interesting cross-topic: I mean, where did the idea of the 'Jewish-Zionist conspiracy' come from? Out of the head of Zeus one afternoon? Or as a result of racist propaganda and bullshit? It's exactly the type of crap that a laissez faire attitude towards free speech encourages, often while shutting down minority voices of reason that aren't thought of as interesting or entertaining enough to hold the floor.
Damn right it isn't for me.
Enjoy your Truthers, Limbaughs and Phelps's. God knows they're the poor victims in need of legal protection.
Our "laissez faire" free speech is what protects us from 51% of the country telling the other 49% what they cannot talk about.
its insensitive yes it was terrorist and not Muslims in general who did and most anyone with a brain knows that.
but holding an event raising attention to your cause on a day in which the nation is remembering something pretty horrible is a little selfish.
it would be like if Germany planned a march on the day Hitler invaded Poland to tell people they are not all Nazis. or if japan did something similar on December 7th.
I would think the group would want to do community outreach during Ramadan or something like that it would probably help their cause a whole lot more.
Our "laissez faire" free speech is what protects us from 51% of the country telling the other 49% what they cannot talk about.
Except it doesn't, because perhaps 2-4~ percent of your country, in practical terms, determines what 98-96~ percent of your country will discuss and cannot discuss. I suppose it's sort-of cute to pretend that your average member of the public really does have just as much privilege as Roger Ailes or Ted Turner, but that's not a fantasy I'm going to indulge.
The 'even playing field' has not done a terribly good job of promoting understanding between political groups or keeping minorities engaged rather than ostracized, if that's what you're saying the benefit is supposed to be.
Eh, a candlelight vigil slash religious outreach thing wouldn't annoy me as much.
It'd annoy me, but only in the sense that I find it overly saccharine.
One of the disconnects between Islam worldwide and the west is that in Islamic countries saying bad things about Islam is a crime.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
Maybe America isn't for you.
I suppose not.
The history of the Jewish-Zionist lobby AIPAC shows that it is more effective to be “radical” and express one's views strongly and honestly, than to be fearful and timid. The best defense is a good offense. Most of our seemingly “radical” positions are closely aligned with the views of the majority of the American people, who oppose the 9/11 wars, want to cut military spending, dislike the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional laws, and hate big bankster usury. Polls even show that 36% of the American people think it is likely that 9/11 was a false-flag operation! That is more people than voted for President Obama.
It's an interesting cross-topic: I mean, where did the idea of the 'Jewish-Zionist conspiracy' come from? Out of the head of Zeus one afternoon? Or as a result of racist propaganda and bullshit? It's exactly the type of crap that a laissez faire attitude towards free speech encourages, often while shutting down minority voices of reason that aren't thought of as interesting or entertaining enough to hold the floor.
Damn right it isn't for me.
Enjoy your Truthers, Limbaughs and Phelps's. God knows they're the poor victims in need of legal protection.
Awesome.
Well we had a free speech thread. I'd say we should assume, for the purpose if this thread, that free speech is a thing in America.
I'll go ahead and move these guy's magnet from the "Well intentioned but poorly executed idea" section and place it right in to the "Cray cray" section.
Our "laissez faire" free speech is what protects us from 51% of the country telling the other 49% what they cannot talk about.
Except it doesn't, because perhaps 2-4~ percent of your country, in practical terms, determines what 98-96~ percent of your country will discuss and cannot discuss. I suppose it's sort-of cute to pretend that your average member of the public really does have just as much privilege as Roger Ailes or Ted Turner, but that's not a fantasy I'm going to indulge.
The 'even playing field' has not done a terribly good job of promoting understanding between political groups or keeping minorities engaged rather than ostracized, if that's what you're saying the benefit is supposed to be.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Free speech has little to do with the economic disparity that my country is struggling with. Free speech is working as intended. A lot of things in the U.S. aren't, but pointing to the first amendment and blaming it is ridiculous and ignorant.
I'll go ahead and move these guy's magnet from the "Well intentioned but poorly executed idea" section and place it right in to the "Cray cray" section.
They're truthers. I mean. Ron Paul truthers, it's right in their FAQ. It's one of the most deluded conspiracy theories in recent memory.
Both Americans and other nationals believe that America is an empire of varying amounts of evil.
I just sometimes forget that there are people who sincerely believe we're Emperor Palpatine levels of evil, instead of just comically conservative and bureaucratic.
In the foreseeable future, any political march/sit in/what have you on 9/11 is going to come across as poor taste, at best or outright antagonistic, at worse.
I'm not seeing any saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this on 9/11. I'm seeing people say it's in poor taste and/or is counter productive.
The blurb from this group doesn't help them either.
We have the first amendment, so no one can legally prevent them from practicing their religion. The 1st Amendment is a two way street though, they get to practice their religion but that doesn't mean Islam is free from criticism, no religion in the US is nor should any be given such a right. I saw something about proselytizing, as has been pointed out no one likes them (not unique to Islam). I think the law here is fine and if they don't like it, they can move out of the US because the 1st Amendment is pretty fucking generous compared to just about everyone else. Yeah, it doesn't shut down racists, but it also keeps a majority party (whether they are overt or convert about their shitty views) from shutting down the expression of others for shitty ass reasons. (And no, just because the shit media doesn't talk about something, does not mean that freedom of speech was being infringe upon or that there is no public discussion on a matter. It just means the shit media is continuing to be shit and they may or may not have chosen to ignore something newsworthy).
The 9/11 report. Anyone paying attention to how government works, could tell you there was no way some of that stuff was getting declassified anytime soon. Some of that was going to stay classified for national security reasons and I seriously doubt any of the classified stuff has anything to do with "OMG MOSLIMS" or "let's spite Muslims by keeping this secret."
All that said, yeah there have been some real failings that reek of islamophobia. I'd argue that such a march on 9/11 is probably one of the worse ways to address legitimate grievances (NYC's mosque spying and certain matters of air travel readily come to mind). Also many of these grievances are a result certain elements of the US population being assholes and another segment of assholes taking advantage (pretty sure the majority of the opportunistic assholes actually do hate Muslims). The assholes aren't the majority and doing shit stirring makes it easier for the assholes to get wishy-washy folks to follow behind them on stupid shit. If the goal is to be in the faces of people that are being assholes, why not do such a protest on the anniversary for the start of the second Gulf War, one of the anniversaries for when the GOP nominated Bush the Lesser, the anniversary of when Fox News was started or if we have one this year, the National Republican convention.
Our "laissez faire" free speech is what protects us from 51% of the country telling the other 49% what they cannot talk about.
Except it doesn't, because perhaps 2-4~ percent of your country, in practical terms, determines what 98-96~ percent of your country will discuss and cannot discuss. I suppose it's sort-of cute to pretend that your average member of the public really does have just as much privilege as Roger Ailes or Ted Turner, but that's not a fantasy I'm going to indulge.
The 'even playing field' has not done a terribly good job of promoting understanding between political groups or keeping minorities engaged rather than ostracized, if that's what you're saying the benefit is supposed to be.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Free speech has little to do with the economic disparity that my country is struggling with. Free speech is working as intended. A lot of things in the U.S. aren't, but pointing to the first amendment and blaming it is ridiculous and ignorant.
Yeah, the idea that free speech is invalid because everybody can't own a cable network is asinine.
Particularly since it's never been easier to broadcast a message, and even to reach hundreds of thousands or millions of people, given the democratization and decentralization of communication. Twitter and Facebook can't completely cancel out Fox News, of course (and they can easily be used for ill as well), but they are, like, a thing. Blogs are a thing. Youtube is a thing.
Of course, minorities will still be minorities. Can't really change that.
So anyway, how about those crazy Paultard 9/11-truthers who happen to be Muslim holding that march next month? That may or may not have a "million" men?
Posts
Yeah, seems they're looking for limitations on speech. Speech they consider to be libel or slander, mind you ("lies")...but if that's the case, they need to pursue it in court. We already limit libel and slander, we don't need stricter limits on libel and slander against Islam so these chucklefucks can get their Dawa on.
They also look to have a video from the 9-11 truther movement (i.e. that hole in the Pentagon not being supposedly real).
So yes, I'm inclined to make wank-off gestures.
That any organization except either direct victims/survivors of the 9/11/2001 attacks or maybe police and firefighters would decide to hold their demonstration on the eleventh of September inclines me to disregard them as chucklefucks out of hand.
That they apparently think we need to exercise greater prior restraint on speech and the press to prevent supposed "libel and slander" against Islam (that they are apparently unable to substantiate in court) just verifies that this was the right decision.
Good luck with your million chucklefuck march, all 300 or so of you. I genuinely hope that this particular band of chucklefucks don't manage to be actively counterproductive by inciting further antagonism towards Islam and Muslims as a whole. But, you know, it's pretty likely.
And that's not an issue the west is willing to meet in the middle on (nor should we, I value free speech more than any number of hurt feelings that said speech caused).
I want to agree, awesome, and lime this.
I know I cry myself to sleep every night over the terrible plight of white supremacists & neo-nazis that are arrested in Austria or deported from the United Kingdom.
My linens are simply soaked & stained with my tears.
Maybe America isn't for you.
And the U.S. has zero hate speech laws.
I decided to see what this AMPAC stood for and uhm.... this is not the organisation anyone should be supporting yo.
This is the first link in their FAQ
No wait! It gets better! In their FAQ they also explicitly endorse Ron Motherfucking Paul!
And esteemed teaching-person Kevin Barret is their National Communications Director.
I don't think these guys (or guy) are ill-intentioned, but man this is just not going to be anything but a massive failure.
Jesus that link is horrifying.
But of course Constitutionally protected.
Well now there is no need to worry about these people being a minority religion. Because everyone is free to hate 9/11 truthers.
I suppose not.
It's an interesting cross-topic: I mean, where did the idea of the 'Jewish-Zionist conspiracy' come from? Out of the head of Zeus one afternoon? Or as a result of racist propaganda and bullshit? It's exactly the type of crap that a laissez faire attitude towards free speech encourages, often while shutting down minority voices of reason that aren't thought of as interesting or entertaining enough to hold the floor.
Damn right it isn't for me.
Enjoy your Truthers, Limbaughs and Phelps's. God knows they're the poor victims in need of legal protection.
This will have no practical effect within the U.S. other than to further inflame existing resentments and give Fox News a small ratings bump.
Our "laissez faire" free speech is what protects us from 51% of the country telling the other 49% what they cannot talk about.
but holding an event raising attention to your cause on a day in which the nation is remembering something pretty horrible is a little selfish.
it would be like if Germany planned a march on the day Hitler invaded Poland to tell people they are not all Nazis. or if japan did something similar on December 7th.
I would think the group would want to do community outreach during Ramadan or something like that it would probably help their cause a whole lot more.
Except it doesn't, because perhaps 2-4~ percent of your country, in practical terms, determines what 98-96~ percent of your country will discuss and cannot discuss. I suppose it's sort-of cute to pretend that your average member of the public really does have just as much privilege as Roger Ailes or Ted Turner, but that's not a fantasy I'm going to indulge.
The 'even playing field' has not done a terribly good job of promoting understanding between political groups or keeping minorities engaged rather than ostracized, if that's what you're saying the benefit is supposed to be.
It'd annoy me, but only in the sense that I find it overly saccharine.
Awesome.
Well we had a free speech thread. I'd say we should assume, for the purpose if this thread, that free speech is a thing in America.
I'll go ahead and move these guy's magnet from the "Well intentioned but poorly executed idea" section and place it right in to the "Cray cray" section.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Free speech has little to do with the economic disparity that my country is struggling with. Free speech is working as intended. A lot of things in the U.S. aren't, but pointing to the first amendment and blaming it is ridiculous and ignorant.
They're truthers. I mean. Ron Paul truthers, it's right in their FAQ. It's one of the most deluded conspiracy theories in recent memory.
I just sometimes forget that there are people who sincerely believe we're Emperor Palpatine levels of evil, instead of just comically conservative and bureaucratic.
I'm not seeing any saying they shouldn't be allowed to do this on 9/11. I'm seeing people say it's in poor taste and/or is counter productive.
The blurb from this group doesn't help them either.
We have the first amendment, so no one can legally prevent them from practicing their religion. The 1st Amendment is a two way street though, they get to practice their religion but that doesn't mean Islam is free from criticism, no religion in the US is nor should any be given such a right. I saw something about proselytizing, as has been pointed out no one likes them (not unique to Islam). I think the law here is fine and if they don't like it, they can move out of the US because the 1st Amendment is pretty fucking generous compared to just about everyone else. Yeah, it doesn't shut down racists, but it also keeps a majority party (whether they are overt or convert about their shitty views) from shutting down the expression of others for shitty ass reasons. (And no, just because the shit media doesn't talk about something, does not mean that freedom of speech was being infringe upon or that there is no public discussion on a matter. It just means the shit media is continuing to be shit and they may or may not have chosen to ignore something newsworthy).
The 9/11 report. Anyone paying attention to how government works, could tell you there was no way some of that stuff was getting declassified anytime soon. Some of that was going to stay classified for national security reasons and I seriously doubt any of the classified stuff has anything to do with "OMG MOSLIMS" or "let's spite Muslims by keeping this secret."
All that said, yeah there have been some real failings that reek of islamophobia. I'd argue that such a march on 9/11 is probably one of the worse ways to address legitimate grievances (NYC's mosque spying and certain matters of air travel readily come to mind). Also many of these grievances are a result certain elements of the US population being assholes and another segment of assholes taking advantage (pretty sure the majority of the opportunistic assholes actually do hate Muslims). The assholes aren't the majority and doing shit stirring makes it easier for the assholes to get wishy-washy folks to follow behind them on stupid shit. If the goal is to be in the faces of people that are being assholes, why not do such a protest on the anniversary for the start of the second Gulf War, one of the anniversaries for when the GOP nominated Bush the Lesser, the anniversary of when Fox News was started or if we have one this year, the National Republican convention.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Yeah, the idea that free speech is invalid because everybody can't own a cable network is asinine.
Particularly since it's never been easier to broadcast a message, and even to reach hundreds of thousands or millions of people, given the democratization and decentralization of communication. Twitter and Facebook can't completely cancel out Fox News, of course (and they can easily be used for ill as well), but they are, like, a thing. Blogs are a thing. Youtube is a thing.
Of course, minorities will still be minorities. Can't really change that.
So anyway, how about those crazy Paultard 9/11-truthers who happen to be Muslim holding that march next month? That may or may not have a "million" men?
It certainly would have been fucking stupid