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Go find the new Shadowrun thread, this one has been hacked by elves

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    I actually like the shopping center idea.

    Put a vendor or two in there, so if you wanted, you could do some shopping before starting the job. But you could only access them while on the mission. A sort of immersion thing.

    Plus it's a floor which provides a function but doesn't require even more heavy trigger scripting.

    Nocren wins!

    Oh man! So it'll be a high end clothing store, there's like two vendors which sell the highest end outfits. But only like... two or three different ones, which are on rotating inventories. So even though you can get access to them early, you probably won't have money for them. Until you run a few missions and the office job comes up again.

    Anon the Felon on
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    Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    Is a mission which requires a decker ok? Or should decking never be a requirement?

    Requiring a decker should be fine, provided the player has access to acquiring a decker runner for the job. It should also be stated up front that the job will require decking support. That being said, you might not want to make every job require a decker, just the really complex ones that involve either manipulating data, or dealing with hefty electronic security systems.

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    Yeah, the decker ones (and there's only two right now) are all pretty clearly set up for them. Lots of computer interface and such.

    Hell, the easy one, the job itself is to "clear a virus off this system." Every other decker situation is totally optional and provides nothing that you couldn't get through talking or having other skills.

    Edit: Pretty sure you can hire a decker right away. I'll double check that though. Good point.

    Anon the Felon on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I actually like the shopping center idea.

    Put a vendor or two in there, so if you wanted, you could do some shopping before starting the job. But you could only access them while on the mission. A sort of immersion thing.

    Plus it's a floor which provides a function but doesn't require even more heavy trigger scripting.

    Nocren wins!

    Oh man! So it'll be a high end clothing store, there's like two vendors which sell the highest end outfits. But only like... two or three different ones, which are on rotating inventories. So even though you can get access to them early, you probably won't have money for them. Until you run a few missions and the office job comes up again.

    Please name one of the vendors Dibbalah or Djibleh or ...

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Where are those from Elvenshae?

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I actually like the shopping center idea.

    Put a vendor or two in there, so if you wanted, you could do some shopping before starting the job. But you could only access them while on the mission. A sort of immersion thing.

    Plus it's a floor which provides a function but doesn't require even more heavy trigger scripting.

    Nocren wins!

    Oh man! So it'll be a high end clothing store, there's like two vendors which sell the highest end outfits. But only like... two or three different ones, which are on rotating inventories. So even though you can get access to them early, you probably won't have money for them. Until you run a few missions and the office job comes up again.

    Please name one of the vendors Dibbalah or Djibleh or ...

    What race?
    What source is that from?
    Any specifics on sales inventory?

    Anon the Felon on
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    FleebFleeb has all of the fleeb juice Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    No Discworld fans here? Hm.

    Cut-me-own-throat Dibbler* is a salesperson in Ankh-Morpork, the large fantasy metropolis from Discworld. He has, somehow, culturally appropriate analogues in every other city of size in the world, from Disembowel-Myself-Honourably Dibhala in Not-China to Cut-Me-Own-Hand-Off Dhblah in Not-Persia to May-I-Never-Achieve-Enlightenment Dhiblang in Not-Tibet.

    * "It's on sale for 10 dollars, and that's cutting me own throat."

    EDIT: http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Cut-Me-Own-Throat_Dibbler

    Elvenshae on
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    I... thought it was an obvious reference, too. :( Then again, I've read/owned nearly all of the Discworld books.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    I never really got into Discworld. I read a few, they just never really grabbed me.

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Anon, what do you think of the runners crashing a party and stealing jewelry and money? Maybe even art.

    I think I'm gonna try that after I learn how to use the editor. I wonder if there are assets to make a pool.

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I never really got into Discworld. I read a few, they just never really grabbed me.

    You start with The Color of Magic?

    That one's a bit harder to get into, I think. The witches or the watch are better entry points, I think.

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I never really got into Discworld. I read a few, they just never really grabbed me.

    You start with The Color of Magic?

    That one's a bit harder to get into, I think. The witches or the watch are better entry points, I think.

    Yeah, I did. I've heard that before, might give it another chance.
    Anon, what do you think of the runners crashing a party and stealing jewelry and money? Maybe even art.

    I think I'm gonna try that after I learn how to use the editor. I wonder if there are assets to make a pool.

    A jewelry heist is already on the books. There are assets for a pool.

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Nice.

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Shadowrun Online update: Skills and Feats
    Hoi Chummers,

    As many of you have by now played Shadowrun Returns from our friends at Harebrained and hopefully also picked up the recent Shadowrun 5th Edition, we are getting a lot of questions regarding how Character Creation and Skills will work in SRO. Well, here are a few answers and ideas on this.

    Skills have always been one of the most fun parts of building your character, especially in an open, class-free system such as Shadowrun. In SRO they are the basis for all the actions a character can perform during a run, so the skill and its associated stat determine your chance for success, but we also have something we currently call maneuvers/spells (this may change), which is where the real fun starts.

    In a combat and co-op oriented online game a lot of the SR skills don’t make sense or work differently (there is little use for your expertise with wine tasting or your aptitude for flying airplanes). Further, different from your game group or even SRR, where on some runs certain characters don’t actually see too much use of their primary abilities (spoiler alert: Don’t take a decker with you on the last SRR run ;) ), we want everyone to be equally active inside a mission. AND we want everyone to be equally powerful! Now in normal RPGs, fighters are often strong initially, but at a certain point they are massively less powerful than mages, for instance, with their large area fireballs and group spells. In Shadowrun, where guns are still the primary means of getting your enemy to drop and magic drains the user, mages are often underpowered compared to an augmented samurai with several actions, especially when fights drag on for a while. Throw in hackers who usually do their matrix attacks alone for an hour while everyone else gets pizza and you see how this could be an issue for a game you are supposed to play with your friends simultaneously, but where there is no GM to switch actions back and forth continuously.

    ...

    More stuff at the link. Love the nod to SRR. :)

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    I like that they're really taking a hard look at things. I think Harebrained didn't have time to really do that in DMS, to the detriment of the campaign.

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    So I'm probably not going to have anything done this weekend. One of my co-workers just dropped a bunch of shifts and I got stuck with them. So my free time this weekend went from "some" to "none". But! I have some time off next week. So hopefully I'll have something ready by then. This office thing is taking longer than planned. I ended up doing more Matrix stuff than I initially expected, and that takes twice as long as any other area generation. Lots of fiddly scripts and dummy interactions.

    Anon the Felon on
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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Take your time. I hope we hear some new stuff from Harebrained or Cliffhanger at PAX.

    HBS will showcase Golem Arcana there too.

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Is there any solid information on Self-Autonomous Knowbots? I know they're the precursors to some AI and they're used in several arcologies, but I can't seem to find much info on their specifics or even their generalities.

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    Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote:
    Is there any solid information on Self-Autonomous Knowbots? I know they're the precursors to some AI and they're used in several arcologies, but I can't seem to find much info on their specifics or even their generalities.

    The Virtual Realities 2.0 sourcebook had a section under its rules for AI's on Semi-Autonomous Knowbots. Not sure if it's the same thing though, and sadly I don't have my copy of the book anymore so I can't provide you with the details.

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    NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote:
    Is there any solid information on Self-Autonomous Knowbots? I know they're the precursors to some AI and they're used in several arcologies, but I can't seem to find much info on their specifics or even their generalities.

    The Virtual Realities 2.0 sourcebook had a section under its rules for AI's on Semi-Autonomous Knowbots. Not sure if it's the same thing though, and sadly I don't have my copy of the book anymore so I can't provide you with the details.

    It's the same thing (or as close to it). Basically they could do certain tasks akin to watcher spirits but in the matrix ("watch this SAN and see who accesses it in a 24 hour period then report back", "compile all the data on Nexus/Shadowlands on 'The Big D' and present in sourcebook format but only cross reference data on 'Tir *', 'Orange Queen' and 'Laughing Man'"). They were used for complex, but time consuming processes and could be a step slightly above "dog-brain" drones on intelligence level. They weren't too good in combat though (too many variables).

    Haberstien from the Threats book also worked on creating Biological Knowbots. Question for anyone... was that ever followed up on?

    newSig.jpg
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    BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Haberstien - was there ever a more creepy scientist in fiction? I'm not sure.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Haberstien - was there ever a more creepy scientist in fiction? I'm not sure.
    Does that guy from The Human Centipede count?

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    There was a doctor who took over Alamos 20K, but he was introduced and mentioned only in Loose Alliances. But he was German and one of those doctors, so I can imagine what nonsense he did.

    Plus whoever in Tanamous came up with the forced breeding program. Hell, the author who came up with that is a sick fuck.

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    From Facebook:
    Hey, Kickstarters - like the Shadowrun Returns soundtrack but hate the mp3 version? Great news - you can now download the FLAC version from your HBS account!

    Not a Kickstarter but would love to get the Shadowrun Returns soundtrack? You can now purchase it as DLC on Steam! Rock on!

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited August 2013
    Nocren wrote: »
    Haberstien from the Threats book also worked on creating Biological Knowbots. Question for anyone... was that ever followed up on?
    Doctor Ronald Halberstam, the chief antagonist of the short story in Virtual Realities (one of the best pieces of Shadowrun fiction ever written, in my opinion), remains as a boogeyman pretty much throughout 3rd edition up until the beginning of 4th edition. Details in the spoilers:
    After his project is defunded and fails from Virtual Realities (working on the UCAS Data Systems "Matrix Born" project in 2051), he goes all "mad scientist" and makes a bunch of brains in jars. This is detailed quite thoroughly in the "Threats" sourcebook.

    There is a blurb about him in the novel Psychotrope, I believe, cutting to him in a couple of vignettes. My memory of this novel is a bit hazy, however, so it could have easily been a blurb from one of the sourcebooks.

    There's some Shadowtalk in the "ghost campfire stories" section of Target Matrix that mentions Dr. Halberstam cutting up otaku brains.

    A Shadowtalk entry by Black Isis in the Corporate Download sourcebook (2060) lists him as working as a consultant on Mitsuhama's wetware project, after his mad scientist Halberstam Babies project implodes (something something, darn shadowrunners). His research almost certainly leads to the full conversion cyborgs found in SR4 (brains in jars, being the main highlight), although there isn't much canon to actually back this up.

    He gets a brief mention in State of the Art 2064. I can't find my copy of it, but I think it's under the world's top 10 X (criminals, shadowrunners, sports) section.

    The "Emergence" sourcebook has him killed in a failed extraction by NeoNET in the Hong Kong Incident (2070) by an escaped patient. Emergence also lists him as the chief researcher in Mitsuhama's "ROM" project (Remote Online Management?)

    EDIT: Oh, I just found another reference to him in System Failure, near the end, when they are introducing Technomancers (called AIPS syndrome initially in System Failure, circa 2065). A runner found some "Dr. Shalbermat" (Halberstam's pseudonym) paydata with brainwave activity and other brain research data dealing with "remote online manipulation" with no evidence of schizophrenia. Given how he ends up in Emergence, he probably was cutting up technomancer brains at that point.
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Is there any solid information on Self-Autonomous Knowbots? I know they're the precursors to some AI and they're used in several arcologies, but I can't seem to find much info on their specifics or even their generalities.

    As far as semi-autonomous knowbots, they are fully detailed in Virtual Realities 2.0 sourcebook. Before the events of the Renraku Arcology Shutdown, you could just stat them out using those rules to the letter, and simply assume that most megacorporations and major first world nations had at least one running around on the Matrix. They are mentioned in some sourcebooks as being used to filter intelligence data by corporate intelligence agencies and even profiling data from social networks. Target: Matrix, for example, lists Shiawase's MIFD (their intelligence branch) using two dozen SKs for data sorting alone (with a Shadowtalk comment that Fuchi's HQ did not have that many). The Shadowtalk "ghost campfire stories" section of that book mentions a few alleged SKs (Code Clan SKs) and environments that house SKs (Fuchi/Novatech HQ, Pueblo).

    Later editions of Shadowrun have them as simply "Agents" or converted into AI. The quote in the Virtual Realities 2.0 book is headlined by Morgan, who is the most prominent AI in the early Shadowrun universe (paramour of Dodger, listed in the Secrets of Power trilogy of novels). She says "They are what I was." or something to that effect. The Renraku Arcology Shutdown and the Brainscan adventure chronicles the activities of the first three prominent AIs in the Shadowrun universe, two of which were former semi-autonomous knowbots that ran the Renraku arcology's core computer. One of the named AIs in 4th edition, Arcturus, was born from Yamatetsu's former MetaMatrix knowbots, used to sift through social media data.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    Man I miss my virtual realities 2.0 sourcebook. VR 2.0 and Fields of Fire were probably my favorite sourcebooks to read. I kinda wish the decking in SRR was as detailed as it was in virtual realities 2.0, but I can see why they chose to go with the simplified system.

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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    That's what the supplements are for.

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Honestly, while I liked the 3rd edition "security sheaf" and "ACIFS" system in Virtual Realities 2.0 (if you knew what you were doing as a GM, you can get a decker run "done in one", as in one minute... only one minute, as opposed to 30 minutes with the older systems) and loathed the 4th edition's version of hacking (pretty much dumb mechanics-wise all around despite a solid background concept, and it got WORSE with the Unwired sourcebook, unless you were a Technomancer), I absolutely LOVE the new 5th edition system for decking. It's probably my favorite revision of the new edition (of course, you can't get much worse than the clusterfrag of Extended Tests of 4th edition or the mini-dungeon-crawl of 1st edition). They rebuilt the system from the ground up, and it plays swiftly as a mini-game, just like hacking should in any game that isn't Uplink.

    It cuts down on the minutiae and unnecessary complexity while still giving a decker a huge amount of variation and tactical/stylistic choices (Want to Brute Force hack a system? Want to Sleaze a system? Want to simply crash the system? All resolved easily and quickly). It keeps Technomancers as "special snowflakes" with special powers that don't eclipse what a decker can do, mostly because Technomancers can only run programs as an echo while deckers can run a full suite of programs and swap them on the fly (as well as their matrix attributes). There's room for both Host decking (traditional SR1-3 decking) and combat on-the-fly decking in the field (4th edition). I also love the new mnemonic for cyberdeck attributes: Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, Firewall... or ASDF, which anyone with a keyboard should recognize. :D

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Want to see something cool? I stumbled upon this thread in the Shadowrun tabletop forums:

    http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11739.0

    Apparently, in the 5th edition rulebook, there are various runic letters and barcodes hidden as watermarks on various pages (usually the 2nd page of every chapter). These barcodes and letters are actually hidden text! The runic letters are often Enochian, while the barcodes say pithy little fortune cookie things like "Deal with a dragon, it's cool" or "Something from Nothing" (in the character creation chapter). By far the coolest thing I've seen in a Shadowrun rulebook.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote:
    Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, Firewall... or ASDF, which anyone with a keyboard should recognize. :D

    Ha! That is admittedly kinda clever. I guess I should get my hands on a 5th edition book.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited August 2013
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Nocren wrote: »
    Haberstien from the Threats book also worked on creating Biological Knowbots. Question for anyone... was that ever followed up on?
    Doctor Ronald Halberstam, the chief antagonist of the short story in Virtual Realities (one of the best pieces of Shadowrun fiction ever written, in my opinion), remains as a boogeyman pretty much throughout 3rd edition up until the beginning of 4th edition. Details in the spoilers:
    After his project is defunded and fails from Virtual Realities (working on the UCAS Data Systems "Matrix Born" project in 2051), he goes all "mad scientist" and makes a bunch of brains in jars. This is detailed quite thoroughly in the "Threats" sourcebook.

    There is a blurb about him in the novel Psychotrope, I believe, cutting to him in a couple of vignettes. My memory of this novel is a bit hazy, however, so it could have easily been a blurb from one of the sourcebooks.

    There's some Shadowtalk in the "ghost campfire stories" section of Target Matrix that mentions Dr. Halberstam cutting up otaku brains.

    A Shadowtalk entry by Black Isis in the Corporate Download sourcebook (2060) lists him as working as a consultant on Mitsuhama's wetware project, after his mad scientist Halberstam Babies project implodes (something something, darn shadowrunners). His research almost certainly leads to the full conversion cyborgs found in SR4 (brains in jars, being the main highlight), although there isn't much canon to actually back this up.

    He gets a brief mention in State of the Art 2064. I can't find my copy of it, but I think it's under the world's top 10 X (criminals, shadowrunners, sports) section.

    The "Emergence" sourcebook has him killed in a failed extraction by NeoNET in the Hong Kong Incident (2070) by an escaped patient. Emergence also lists him as the chief researcher in Mitsuhama's "ROM" project (Remote Online Management?)

    EDIT: Oh, I just found another reference to him in System Failure, near the end, when they are introducing Technomancers (called AIPS syndrome initially in System Failure, circa 2065). A runner found some "Dr. Shalbermat" (Halberstam's pseudonym) paydata with brainwave activity and other brain research data dealing with "remote online manipulation" with no evidence of schizophrenia. Given how he ends up in Emergence, he probably was cutting up technomancer brains at that point.
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Is there any solid information on Self-Autonomous Knowbots? I know they're the precursors to some AI and they're used in several arcologies, but I can't seem to find much info on their specifics or even their generalities.

    As far as semi-autonomous knowbots, they are fully detailed in Virtual Realities 2.0 sourcebook. Before the events of the Renraku Arcology Shutdown, you could just stat them out using those rules to the letter, and simply assume that most megacorporations and major first world nations had at least one running around on the Matrix. They are mentioned in some sourcebooks as being used to filter intelligence data by corporate intelligence agencies and even profiling data from social networks. Target: Matrix, for example, lists Shiawase's MIFD (their intelligence branch) using two dozen SKs for data sorting alone (with a Shadowtalk comment that Fuchi's HQ did not have that many). The Shadowtalk "ghost campfire stories" section of that book mentions a few alleged SKs (Code Clan SKs) and environments that house SKs (Fuchi/Novatech HQ, Pueblo).

    Later editions of Shadowrun have them as simply "Agents" or converted into AI. The quote in the Virtual Realities 2.0 book is headlined by Morgan, who is the most prominent AI in the early Shadowrun universe (paramour of Dodger, listed in the Secrets of Power trilogy of novels). She says "They are what I was." or something to that effect. The Renraku Arcology Shutdown and the Brainscan adventure chronicles the activities of the first three prominent AIs in the Shadowrun universe, two of which were former semi-autonomous knowbots that ran the Renraku arcology's core computer. One of the named AIs in 4th edition, Arcturus, was born from Yamatetsu's former MetaMatrix knowbots, used to sift through social media data.

    Good info, thanks. My plan is to make a short run based in part in the Renraku Arcology between when Morgan was being dissected and Deus was being "built", with an evolutionary programming angle built around knowbots. The main goal to the UGC is to show how UV systems can be done in SRR, but I feel a solid short story that uses it is better than a bland, tech-demo-like ugc.

    Dedwrekka on
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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Started playing DMS with a melee adept and realized that there is a melee weapon attack in Chi Casting. I like it a lot.

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    So I'm replaying it as a Street Sam speced in rifles on very hard after my first runthrough as a shamn on normal and holy crap, either I was bad at being a Shaman or street sam are just crazy powerful because I can pretty much solo all of the missions now.

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    FleebFleeb has all of the fleeb juice Registered User regular
    Street Sam with rifle is pretty much easy mode, even on very hard.

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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    So got a weird bug today, doing the run against Teleresian office building, I am only taking 2 other runners with me since I think I can handle it, however when I get there there are four of us, it turns out Johnny Clean is tagging along on the run for some reason. He doesn't have a gun though, just a deck and his jack.

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Dodger lost the address. :P

    I'm playing a melee adept and about to do the DMS's Telestrian Run too. I'm thinking it's suicide. Any tips?

    Tried to do a little of mystic ninja with chi casting and summons and I feel like I need more karma points.

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Also, anyone here tried other UGC? I tried Silver Angel and found the decking section hard but I liked the characters at the start.

    Anon, there is another guy making a heist module: Link. That's not you, right?

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    It is not. He's making a one-off mod with the bank run being the main focus.

    Mine is just a part of the larger mod. Slightly similar though, I suppose.

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    MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    Are you getting people to playtest it? It sounds like it's getting pretty big. You'll need bug hunters.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
This discussion has been closed.