Is it wrong to say that these are the moments that I love about the human spirit?
The fact i love the most, is that Turkeys President, basically went "lol no" on Twitter (not his exact words) after Prime Minister of Turkey decided to ban Twitter.
A Syria jet has been shot down by a Turkish F-16, I guess because it violated Turkish airspace. I kinda doubt this will escalate (much like the Israeli airstrikes), but you never know in times of war. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26706417
A Syria jet has been shot down by a Turkish F-16, I guess because it violated Turkish airspace. I kinda doubt this will escalate (much like the Israeli airstrikes), but you never know in times of way. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26706417
I don't think Syria can escalate even if they wanted to.
And why would they? They couldn't hold their own against the Israeli army, much less all of NATO.
A Syria jet has been shot down by a Turkish F-16, I guess because it violated Turkish airspace. I kinda doubt this will escalate (much like the Israeli airstrikes), but you never know in times of way. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26706417
I don't think Syria can escalate even if they wanted to.
And why would they? They couldn't hold their own against the Israeli army, much less all of NATO.
Oh yea, please give the United States an excuse. Obama somewhat (only somewhat because many of the rebels in Syria are assholes too) wanted to blow Assad's ass away last year. If Assad is stupid enough to give him a Nato-bound excuse, Assad will be dead by dawn.
Also I don't think Syria could beat the Turkish military by themselves. So again, escalation: Bad Idea.
I also came here to mention the 500+ Morsi supporters/Brotherhood members/people who were on the streets with them being sentenced to death. Disgusting.
Remember that in the chaos after Morsi was overthrown, over 1000 Brotherhood supporters were gunned down. All this blood, it will need to be paid for, eventually.
I want to say this won't actually happen, that they'll be granted an amnesty or have their sentences changed to something less than death. On the other hand, the government/military has shown it is completely willing to kill these people, and maybe it wants to set an example? They'd meet a lot of foreign complaints if they started to carry these out.
I also came here to mention the 500+ Morsi supporters/Brotherhood members/people who were on the streets with them being sentenced to death. Disgusting.
Remember that in the chaos after Morsi was overthrown, over 1000 Brotherhood supporters were gunned down. All this blood, it will need to be paid for, eventually.
I want to say this won't actually happen, that they'll be granted an amnesty or have their sentences changed to something less than death. On the other hand, the government/military has shown it is completely willing to kill these people, and maybe it wants to set an example? They'd meet a lot of foreign complaints if they started to carry these out.
At this point, is the military even pretending it's going to hold another election?
I also came here to mention the 500+ Morsi supporters/Brotherhood members/people who were on the streets with them being sentenced to death. Disgusting.
Remember that in the chaos after Morsi was overthrown, over 1000 Brotherhood supporters were gunned down. All this blood, it will need to be paid for, eventually.
I want to say this won't actually happen, that they'll be granted an amnesty or have their sentences changed to something less than death. On the other hand, the government/military has shown it is completely willing to kill these people, and maybe it wants to set an example? They'd meet a lot of foreign complaints if they started to carry these out.
At this point, is the military even pretending it's going to hold another election?
Ha, good question, I certainly haven't heard anything about it. It will likely follow Mubarak's way of doing things: "opposition" parties will step down because Sisi is the best, or run while actively supporting the ruling president.
I don't think Sisi is going to be leaving without more bloodshed.
The most overt positives have run themselves out, yes.
But the Arab Spring will have enormous repercussions for years and decades down the line. It has been demonstrated that crowds in the streets can overthrow governments in the Middle East. This is huge. While the military is back in power in Egypt (they never really left power), this doesn't mean something like this cannot happen again. I think that more unrest is a guarantee. The fundamental problems, not just in Egypt but across the region, are still in place. Authoritarian governments, huge corruption and most importantly, rampant poverty and a very young population.
People and groups and militaries have learned across the region that -except in Tunisia, so far- people in the streets alone will not accomplish what people want. The next round will be more organized, will have leaders and political grounding, it will have (more) backing from outside the country, and will be armed. Central Asia is also very vulnerable to this exact sort of unrest, in my opinion. If in a few years there is another revolution in Egypt that succeeds, people in later decades will probably lump them together; revolutions often take years, and often don't work the first time around.
The times, they won't be getting less interesting.
I don't normally do full article dumps, but this one also lists some generalities that I wanted to include, so here:
The Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader, Mohammed Badie, and 682 other supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi have gone on trial in Egypt.
They face charges relating to an attack on a police station in the central city of Minya last August.
Most of the defendants are being tried in absentia and officials said Mr Badie was not in court for security reasons.
The mass trial in Minya comes a day after the same court sentenced 528 other Morsi supporters to death.
There has been widespread condemnation of the sentences, which were delivered on only the second session of the trial.
The UN said the trial had contravened international law.
There were also protests in Minya by students at the local university and by a crowd in the Abu Hilal district which called for the end of military rule.
'Unprecedented'
The BBC's Orla Guerin, who is outside the Minya Criminal Court, says only 62 people were present at the trial on Tuesday and that it was adjourned after a few hours.
The defendants - including Mr Badie, the Brotherhood's general guide, and Saad al-Katani, chairman of its Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) - are facing various charges in connection with an attack on a police station in Minya in mid-August, in which no-one was reported killed.
The attack took place in the immediate aftermath of an operation by security forces to break up two sit-ins in the capital, Cairo, that left almost 1,000 people dead. The sit-ins were set up by supporters of Mr Morsi's after he was overthrown by the military the previous month.
Defence lawyers boycotted Tuesday's proceedings, but the judge, Saed Youssef, nevertheless continued without them, our correspondent says.
He is believed to have heard evidence from witnesses, and even questioned some of the defendants despite their legal representatives not being present, she adds. One local lawyer with 20 years' experience described the actions of the judge as unprecedented.
The defence teams have demanded that the judge step down because he presided over the trial of the 528 people sentenced to death on Monday in connection with an attack on a different police station in Minya.
The preceding trial, in which the vast majority of defendants were also tried in absentia, is reported to have lasted under an hour on Saturday.
The prosecution did not put forward evidence implicating any individual defendant, even though it had compiled significant evidence, and the court prevented defence lawyers from presenting their case or calling witnesses, according to Human Right Watch.
A second session was held on Monday solely to announce the verdict.
...
The state-run al-Ahram newspaper reported that the Minya Criminal Court would issue its final verdict on 28 April after Egypt's grand mufti, who under the law must ratify each death sentence before it can be carried out, had passed judgement.
The defendants may then appeal. Legal experts said a higher court would most probably order a retrial or reduce their sentences.
The 1,200 defendants in the two cases in Minya are among more than 16,000 Egyptians arrested over the past eight months, according to figures recently provided by senior interior ministry officials. They include about 3,000 top or mid-level Brotherhood members.
I don't normally do full article dumps, but this one also lists some generalities that I wanted to include, so here:
The Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader, Mohammed Badie, and 682 other supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi have gone on trial in Egypt.
They face charges relating to an attack on a police station in the central city of Minya last August.
Most of the defendants are being tried in absentia and officials said Mr Badie was not in court for security reasons.
The mass trial in Minya comes a day after the same court sentenced 528 other Morsi supporters to death.
There has been widespread condemnation of the sentences, which were delivered on only the second session of the trial.
The UN said the trial had contravened international law.
There were also protests in Minya by students at the local university and by a crowd in the Abu Hilal district which called for the end of military rule.
'Unprecedented'
The BBC's Orla Guerin, who is outside the Minya Criminal Court, says only 62 people were present at the trial on Tuesday and that it was adjourned after a few hours.
The defendants - including Mr Badie, the Brotherhood's general guide, and Saad al-Katani, chairman of its Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) - are facing various charges in connection with an attack on a police station in Minya in mid-August, in which no-one was reported killed.
The attack took place in the immediate aftermath of an operation by security forces to break up two sit-ins in the capital, Cairo, that left almost 1,000 people dead. The sit-ins were set up by supporters of Mr Morsi's after he was overthrown by the military the previous month.
Defence lawyers boycotted Tuesday's proceedings, but the judge, Saed Youssef, nevertheless continued without them, our correspondent says.
He is believed to have heard evidence from witnesses, and even questioned some of the defendants despite their legal representatives not being present, she adds. One local lawyer with 20 years' experience described the actions of the judge as unprecedented.
The defence teams have demanded that the judge step down because he presided over the trial of the 528 people sentenced to death on Monday in connection with an attack on a different police station in Minya.
The preceding trial, in which the vast majority of defendants were also tried in absentia, is reported to have lasted under an hour on Saturday.
The prosecution did not put forward evidence implicating any individual defendant, even though it had compiled significant evidence, and the court prevented defence lawyers from presenting their case or calling witnesses, according to Human Right Watch.
A second session was held on Monday solely to announce the verdict.
...
The state-run al-Ahram newspaper reported that the Minya Criminal Court would issue its final verdict on 28 April after Egypt's grand mufti, who under the law must ratify each death sentence before it can be carried out, had passed judgement.
The defendants may then appeal. Legal experts said a higher court would most probably order a retrial or reduce their sentences.
The 1,200 defendants in the two cases in Minya are among more than 16,000 Egyptians arrested over the past eight months, according to figures recently provided by senior interior ministry officials. They include about 3,000 top or mid-level Brotherhood members.
well we already cut military aid or were supposed to cut military aid after the whole coup/ lethal crack down debacle.
but then the Saudis and UAE stepped in with petro dollars. which made it moot
Uhh, I think it was "suspended" rather than cut. It's a good question though, I don't know what the current status is.
I think all foreign influence is going to be secondary at this point. Sisi and the military/intelligence establishment in general is focusing on consolidating control. They are going to do that, and fuck what anyone else thinks, until they deem they're fairly secure. Then they (like Mubarak did) can make generic concessions in order to get more aid or weapons.
Another health worker in Pakistan was killed recently. I thought the Pakistanis licked this problem two years ago when a dozen health workers were murdered.
Be ready for more shit-show-ery from Turkey. Municipal elections are taking place today and there's already allegations of corruption, power being cut to polling stations, misinformation in media, etc.
Regardless of what the result is, people will disagree. Set your bullshit meters to max, because you'll be hearing a lot of it very shortly. Don't believe anything you hear (social media) and only half of what you read (BBC, CNN etc).
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Two people close to the talks told the Associated Press that in return for such a move, Israel would have to undertake significant concessions to the Palestinians.
Concessions could include some kind of construction freeze at Jewish settlements on occupied territory, the release of further batches of Palestinian prisoners, and a guarantee not to pull out of the talks.
Don't do it, Obama! They'll throw him a parade and flip us the bird, like they've always done in the past. Fuckers.
Yeah, I say tell them to fuck off. I sure as well wouldn't release the fucker, if all I had was a "we'll totes follow the agreement." I could see the current government of Israel backstabbing the US on this one, just to spite the US for daring to lock up a spy that stealing our shit and having the current administration call them out on some of the BS. Don't get me wrong, I think Obama still lets them get away with too much, but he doesn't do everything those fuckers want, which is a slight improvement over the last guy on this issue.
Also with Russia pulling their current BS, I wouldn't be keen on making any deals with people that I couldn't trust to keep their end of the bargain because of the assholes, would just turn around and scream that Obama was being weak, for each deal that gets broken.
bahaha, in exchange for concessions to the Palestinians? Great, so they pause settlement construction and release prisoners... just in time for the next war, when they get some more prisoners and maybe even some land! And then construct settlements on the new land!; not like the old construction ever really stopped though.
Yup, good bargain for the US right there.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It sounds to me more like someone mentioned Pollard's name, and that was it. The anonymous source doesn't sound like there was much of a discussion on it, beyond "What are all the tools we have to make the Israelis actually pretend to take the peace process seriously?"
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
I have no idea why the US lets them get away with murder*, except that most politicians with an R next to their name dislike Muslims and think that Israel has to exist "for Jesus to come back". Which is a completely insane foreign policy.
*see: killing 34 of our sailors (and wounding 78) on the Liberty, running over one of our citizens with a bulldozer, killing a citizen execution-style on the Mavi Mamara), stealing our secrets and selling them to the Chinese, reverse-engineering the missiles we gift them and then selling them to the Chinese, etc.
And that's just towards the U.S.! Remember when they shelled hospitals, food warehouses, refugee shelters, and the U.N. headquarters in their latest war?
Dicks.
+1
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited April 2014
Israel has to exist because US strategery demands it be so for a foothold in the Middle East. Other then Turkey and all the other ones they have over there. Not just that whole Jesus thing.
But yeah, it's probably the biggest embarrassment of US foreign policy.
I have no idea why the US lets them get away with murder*, except that most politicians with an R next to their name dislike Muslims and think that Israel has to exist "for Jesus to come back". Which is a completely insane foreign policy.
*see: killing 34 of our sailors (and wounding 78) on the Liberty, running over one of our citizens with a bulldozer, killing a citizen execution-style on the Mavi Mamara), stealing our secrets and selling them to the Chinese, reverse-engineering the missiles we gift them and then selling them to the Chinese, etc.
And that's just towards the U.S.! Remember when they shelled hospitals, food warehouses, refugee shelters, and the U.N. headquarters in their latest war?
Dicks.
It's because Florida, actually.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
It truly is! Man, my home state is responsible for both the continued Cuba embargo and our unquestioning support of Apartheid 2.0. Old people are
the worst.
I have no idea why the US lets them get away with murder*, except that most politicians with an R next to their name dislike Muslims and think that Israel has to exist "for Jesus to come back". Which is a completely insane foreign policy.
*see: killing 34 of our sailors (and wounding 78) on the Liberty, running over one of our citizens with a bulldozer, killing a citizen execution-style on the Mavi Mamara), stealing our secrets and selling them to the Chinese, reverse-engineering the missiles we gift them and then selling them to the Chinese, etc.
And that's just towards the U.S.! Remember when they shelled hospitals, food warehouses, refugee shelters, and the U.N. headquarters in their latest war?
I have no idea why the US lets them get away with murder*, except that most politicians with an R next to their name dislike Muslims and think that Israel has to exist "for Jesus to come back". Which is a completely insane foreign policy.
*see: killing 34 of our sailors (and wounding 78) on the Liberty, running over one of our citizens with a bulldozer, killing a citizen execution-style on the Mavi Mamara), stealing our secrets and selling them to the Chinese, reverse-engineering the missiles we gift them and then selling them to the Chinese, etc.
And that's just towards the U.S.! Remember when they shelled hospitals, food warehouses, refugee shelters, and the U.N. headquarters in their latest war?
Dicks.
It's because Florida, actually.
What does Florida have to do with it?
Significant Jewish population + swing state + huge number of electoral votes + unsophisticated political thinking about the Jewish vote that has historically dominated American politics = unrelenting US support for Israel.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney voiced his support for an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities over the weekend, during his closed-door keynote address at the Republican Jewish Coalition's annual spring meeting.
Former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney voiced his support for an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities over the weekend, during his closed-door keynote address at the Republican Jewish Coalition's annual spring meeting.
Former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney voiced his support for an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities over the weekend, during his closed-door keynote address at the Republican Jewish Coalition's annual spring meeting.
Former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney voiced his support for an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities over the weekend, during his closed-door keynote address at the Republican Jewish Coalition's annual spring meeting.
Not a surprise.
Not that it's directly about the ME, but the Robert Gates book "Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War" is full interesting tidbits. Gates says nice things about Cheney and Biden, then disagrees with nearly every opinion they hold.
One example was Israel wanting to strike a Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007. Gates, Bush, and much of the senior staff was against it and was actively trying to get Israel to call off the strike. Cheney was all in favour. It seemed like Cheney was often the one advocating a military solution.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
I seem to remember that they wanted to work with the international community first. Not that bombs were off the table, but I think they wanted inspections, sanctions, etc first and use military action as a last resort.
I'm not as clear on the why, but I think regional stability, Syria's close ties to Iran, and the potential of an attack becoming a flashpoint for a wider conflict were some of the reasons.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Posts
The fact i love the most, is that Turkeys President, basically went "lol no" on Twitter (not his exact words) after Prime Minister of Turkey decided to ban Twitter.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26706417
I don't think Syria can escalate even if they wanted to.
And why would they? They couldn't hold their own against the Israeli army, much less all of NATO.
Oh yea, please give the United States an excuse. Obama somewhat (only somewhat because many of the rebels in Syria are assholes too) wanted to blow Assad's ass away last year. If Assad is stupid enough to give him a Nato-bound excuse, Assad will be dead by dawn.
Also I don't think Syria could beat the Turkish military by themselves. So again, escalation: Bad Idea.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26712124
529 members of muslim brotherhood sentenced to death
I am sure that trial was totally fair.
Remember that in the chaos after Morsi was overthrown, over 1000 Brotherhood supporters were gunned down. All this blood, it will need to be paid for, eventually.
I want to say this won't actually happen, that they'll be granted an amnesty or have their sentences changed to something less than death. On the other hand, the government/military has shown it is completely willing to kill these people, and maybe it wants to set an example? They'd meet a lot of foreign complaints if they started to carry these out.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/03/twenty-soldiers-killed-yemen-attack-201432481536248340.html
At this point, is the military even pretending it's going to hold another election?
Ha, good question, I certainly haven't heard anything about it. It will likely follow Mubarak's way of doing things: "opposition" parties will step down because Sisi is the best, or run while actively supporting the ruling president.
I don't think Sisi is going to be leaving without more bloodshed.
But the Arab Spring will have enormous repercussions for years and decades down the line. It has been demonstrated that crowds in the streets can overthrow governments in the Middle East. This is huge. While the military is back in power in Egypt (they never really left power), this doesn't mean something like this cannot happen again. I think that more unrest is a guarantee. The fundamental problems, not just in Egypt but across the region, are still in place. Authoritarian governments, huge corruption and most importantly, rampant poverty and a very young population.
People and groups and militaries have learned across the region that -except in Tunisia, so far- people in the streets alone will not accomplish what people want. The next round will be more organized, will have leaders and political grounding, it will have (more) backing from outside the country, and will be armed. Central Asia is also very vulnerable to this exact sort of unrest, in my opinion. If in a few years there is another revolution in Egypt that succeeds, people in later decades will probably lump them together; revolutions often take years, and often don't work the first time around.
The times, they won't be getting less interesting.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26726901
All hail the new boss, same as the old boss, coated in blood and wearing fancy glasses.
I was really hoping the first trial was a warning and that they wouldn't go through with it.
But a second large trial so soon is troublesome.
Does the US have any leverage over Egypt to prevent a downward spiral of purges?
but then the Saudis and UAE stepped in with petro dollars. which made it moot
Uhh, I think it was "suspended" rather than cut. It's a good question though, I don't know what the current status is.
I think all foreign influence is going to be secondary at this point. Sisi and the military/intelligence establishment in general is focusing on consolidating control. They are going to do that, and fuck what anyone else thinks, until they deem they're fairly secure. Then they (like Mubarak did) can make generic concessions in order to get more aid or weapons.
Another health worker in Pakistan was killed recently. I thought the Pakistanis licked this problem two years ago when a dozen health workers were murdered.
Regardless of what the result is, people will disagree. Set your bullshit meters to max, because you'll be hearing a lot of it very shortly. Don't believe anything you hear (social media) and only half of what you read (BBC, CNN etc).
Don't do it, Obama! They'll throw him a parade and flip us the bird, like they've always done in the past. Fuckers.
Also with Russia pulling their current BS, I wouldn't be keen on making any deals with people that I couldn't trust to keep their end of the bargain because of the assholes, would just turn around and scream that Obama was being weak, for each deal that gets broken.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Yup, good bargain for the US right there.
*see: killing 34 of our sailors (and wounding 78) on the Liberty, running over one of our citizens with a bulldozer, killing a citizen execution-style on the Mavi Mamara), stealing our secrets and selling them to the Chinese, reverse-engineering the missiles we gift them and then selling them to the Chinese, etc.
And that's just towards the U.S.! Remember when they shelled hospitals, food warehouses, refugee shelters, and the U.N. headquarters in their latest war?
Dicks.
But yeah, it's probably the biggest embarrassment of US foreign policy.
It's because Florida, actually.
It truly is! Man, my home state is responsible for both the continued Cuba embargo and our unquestioning support of Apartheid 2.0. Old people are
the worst.
What does Florida have to do with it?
Significant Jewish population + swing state + huge number of electoral votes + unsophisticated political thinking about the Jewish vote that has historically dominated American politics = unrelenting US support for Israel.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26851662
I've also been seeing more commercials for Egyptian Tourism. Not... not right now, not the best time to visit the country, unfortunately.
This forum needs a fourth reaction button that is just "Fuck you Dick Cheney".
It's so often useful.
Presumably the icon would be an old man being shot in the face.
Not a surprise.
Not that it's directly about the ME, but the Robert Gates book "Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War" is full interesting tidbits. Gates says nice things about Cheney and Biden, then disagrees with nearly every opinion they hold.
One example was Israel wanting to strike a Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007. Gates, Bush, and much of the senior staff was against it and was actively trying to get Israel to call off the strike. Cheney was all in favour. It seemed like Cheney was often the one advocating a military solution.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Because they cleared the very low bar of being less monstrous than Dick Cheney.
I'm not as clear on the why, but I think regional stability, Syria's close ties to Iran, and the potential of an attack becoming a flashpoint for a wider conflict were some of the reasons.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.