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Hello, Commander. XCOM: Enemy Within. Expansion out everywhere, prepare to die.

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    With Training Roulette, the only thing Supports are good for is becoming MECs. They make fan-fucking-tastic MECs, too. I would super rather have Run and Gun than Smoke Grenades, especially with the existence of Ghost Grenades. Ghost Grenades + Archangel Armor = funny!

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    I've gotten back pretty hard into Xcom with Enemy Within

    I'm still only playing on easy and don't really have any desire to struggle with the early game on normal, but it's still a lot of fun!

    Exalt is a lot less of a hassle than I thought they were going to be. As an addition, they're somewhat welcome, because it allows for guaranteed missions more often without having to resort to satellite trickery, but there also isn't much meat to them. Same 2 mission types, smarter but still not that smart enemy types. I haven't done the base yet though, that could end up being a lot of fun.

    The new (spoilering it just in case, happened like 4 or 5 months in for me)
    Xcom base defense mission was fucking brutal. I wasn't ever in any huge danger, it being easy, but not being able to go in with my entire main line crew and having so so so many aliens to deal with was a pain. I seriously never thought it would actually end. Can't even imagine having to do that shit on higher difficulties. It was also super annoying to be given low level dudes who got experience and ranked up but then disappeared into the ether. Really should be given an option to recruit them as regular fighters after that mission.

    So far my favorite moment of the new expansion is opening a door in a downed UFO to trigger about 7 enemies, including a berserker. The berserker immediately got attacked by my nearby heavy, which then activated his extra movement ability, which he used to walk into a 4 tile range of both of my assault characters. The result is a less than 4 second alive berserker. I had a hell of a time with the other 7 enemies, but that part was a lot of fun.

    Not looking forward to dealing with the new, tougher sectoids. First time I stopped playing was after a bad encounter with one during a panic mission, and that was pre-expansion. I guess they don't have an aoe now though? Might help.

    Cilla Black on
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    They don't need an AOE. They can do their back-mounted laser blast twice a turn and the fucking thing can do 10 non-crit damage.

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    Things I don't like about Enemy Within:

    Why can't I give my gene warriors sleeves? I want sleeves, dammit! There doesn't seem to be any reason not to genetically alter my guys, so it'd be nice to have the option to just make them look like regular xcom operatives.

    MECs. No no, it's not what you think. I love MECs. But I don't love constantly feeling like the game is about to make me regret having something so huge and powerful and awesome. Seriously it's like I'm cheating or something over here.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    you dare question the fashion sense of our new Homo Superior overlords?

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    I'd even willingly give up a better power for the genetic ability of "can wear sleeves"...

  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    sleeveless is an ingenious visual shorthand to indicate who's special on the battlefield and i wont have the gene mods' designs besmirched

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Snipers who have Mimetic Skin, Squadsight and the jump power are basically a win condition for the game. Bring two on any mission with open spaces and clean up.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    A duck! wrote: »
    I still think a combo of Mimetic Skin and the jump ability changes the game far more than MECs do (even MECs that can jump). If you're careful with your moves you can isolate groups and burn them down in a single turn without trouble.

    Assaults are pretty insane with mimetic skin. You can ghost right up to a hard target and wreck it with a double shot. With a berserker you then get a 3rd shot as it charges you. The close combat specialist thing is broke as hell when the enemy has no way of knowing where you are and just walks straight past you.

    Mimetic skin also turns snipers into super scouts and renders them even harder to kill. You can set up ridiculous shots with no danger. I don't even bother with any of the other meld stuff, because a squad full of mimetic skin users is just sick.

  • Thorn413Thorn413 Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    A duck! wrote: »
    I still think a combo of Mimetic Skin and the jump ability changes the game far more than MECs do (even MECs that can jump). If you're careful with your moves you can isolate groups and burn them down in a single turn without trouble.

    Assaults are pretty insane with mimetic skin. You can ghost right up to a hard target and wreck it with a double shot. With a berserker you then get a 3rd shot as it charges you. The close combat specialist thing is broke as hell when the enemy has no way of knowing where you are and just walks straight past you.

    Mimetic skin also turns snipers into super scouts and renders them even harder to kill. You can set up ridiculous shots with no danger. I don't even bother with any of the other meld stuff, because a squad full of mimetic skin users is just sick.

    The alternative to mimetic skin is the Bioelectric one right? The ability to find out where enemies are without having to have LoS with them is pretty useful too.

  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    sleeveless is an ingenious visual shorthand to indicate who's special on the battlefield and i wont have the gene mods' designs besmirched

    This was fine in the early game when I had a bunch of regulars and 2 gene soldiers

    But now except for my MEC they are all gene soldiers and sleeveless and I miss the old style

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Thorn413 wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    A duck! wrote: »
    I still think a combo of Mimetic Skin and the jump ability changes the game far more than MECs do (even MECs that can jump). If you're careful with your moves you can isolate groups and burn them down in a single turn without trouble.

    Assaults are pretty insane with mimetic skin. You can ghost right up to a hard target and wreck it with a double shot. With a berserker you then get a 3rd shot as it charges you. The close combat specialist thing is broke as hell when the enemy has no way of knowing where you are and just walks straight past you.

    Mimetic skin also turns snipers into super scouts and renders them even harder to kill. You can set up ridiculous shots with no danger. I don't even bother with any of the other meld stuff, because a squad full of mimetic skin users is just sick.

    The alternative to mimetic skin is the Bioelectric one right? The ability to find out where enemies are without having to have LoS with them is pretty useful too.

    Yeah but not as useful as being fucking invisible. You can scout things out and set up ambushes with mimetic, which is all bioelectric would really be good for.

    Also re: the gene mods design, I think it's a shame they didn't hit the body horror thing harder and have your soldiers look progressively more monstrous as you add more mods. There's a moment in that first mec cutscene where I thought "holy shit what did I just do to this man" but they don't really play that one out.

    Also I found elements of the base defence legitimately upsetting.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2014
    it would be nice, gameplay balance-wise, if there were some downsides to using gene mods (other than losing sleeve proficiency), like how MEC units are pretty much an awesome-looking sidegrade from regular troops.


    Really though the main problem is that mimetic skin is overpowered as fuck.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think having mecs only require meld would help the early game a lot. In the first couple of months I spend money on nothing but satellites, because that's how you win the fucking game. By the time I had the resources to devote to mecs, I'd already entered the Bully Boy phase of the game and my soldiers were kickass by themselves. If mecs only used up meld, it would reward you for playing high risk in the opening part of the game by giving you an early leg up in those first tedious missions.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Also I found elements of the base defence legitimately upsetting.

    I really loved hearing your normally unflappable XO guy actually freaking out a bit and sounding desperate

    I wish we had been able to see what Dr. Vahlen was up to during the base assault

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    That didn't surprise me too much, that guy is kind of a fuck up. It was more seeing the base personnel just get mowed down that did it. One would get a great shot in and take down an alien, and then just get annihilated in the next turn. It seems like the AI deliberately goes for them. I guess it's a decent tactic to reduce numbers fast.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    bioelectric is good for when a cyberdisk decides to be a dick on the perhaps too ambitiously constructed large UFO maps and gets stuck off a ledge somewhere that can only be shot at from like 2 or 3 vantage points

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  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    Mimetic Skin is too good to be considered in a game you want to be challenging. I will take it on one guy so I can get anti-MC measures on the rest of my squad a bit faster. Mimetic uses a fuckton of MELD, to be honest, and it just makes the game near effortless. No thanks. I'll take it on a Heavy so I can initiate one shitty combat with a shredder rocket and then do the rest of the map like a normal person.

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    So I feel awfully stupid, but how do you build new model MECs? I just researched Titan armor and it said I unlocked something, but the options to build anything other than wardens are greyed out

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  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    So I feel awfully stupid, but how do you build new model MECs? I just researched Titan armor and it said I unlocked something, but the options to build anything other than wardens are greyed out

    You might not have enough resources to upgrade your MEC.

    The higher tiers cost quite a bit of Meld.

    IKknkhU.gif
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I must be missing something, but at least I have four wardens I spose

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I don't think the third tier is anywhere near worth it. The EMP thing is useful against sectopods sure, but it only takes them out for one turn and you have to get up close. I haven't tried proximity mines though.

    Also I like mechs a lot more now, although I still think they have too many downsides compared to gene mods. The flamethrower is super funsies, and the aoe heal is fantastic. I think the concept needs a lot of tweaking (which probably won't happen at this point in the game's lifespan) but I think they're a solid addition.

  • MelokuMeloku Ask me about my Illusions Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I don't think the third tier is anywhere near worth it. The EMP thing is useful against sectopods sure, but it only takes them out for one turn and you have to get up close. I haven't tried proximity mines though.

    Also I like mechs a lot more now, although I still think they have too many downsides compared to gene mods. The flamethrower is super funsies, and the aoe heal is fantastic. I think the concept needs a lot of tweaking (which probably won't happen at this point in the game's lifespan) but I think they're a solid addition.

    I've found proximity mine super useful, but a lot of what I use it for is to abuse things that haven't activated that I know are present (due to either UFO layout or memetic skin), usually vs Ethereals or Sectopods. Also for Exalt missions, but I never found those too bad.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Bioelectric skin + Proximity Mine(s) + Grenade/Rocket = Preemptive Strike of DOOM

    The thing I find weird about Mimetic Skin is that it means you can't use the Ghost portion of Ghost Armor. I can understand it for balance reasons but in terms of game lore it doesn't really make sense.

    MS is tremendously OP on any mission where tactical retreat is an option, because it means you can have at least one or two soldiers waiting in ambush every time you engage the enemy. Run up, uncover the enemy with the invisible soldier, set up everyone else, then use the sniper(s) to start the engagement. Enemy runs around trying to get to the sniper(s) across the map, and your guys wait until E.T. runs right past to light 'em up.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I just soloed a UFO with a mimetic skin assault. A pretty tricked out one admittedly.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Tube wrote: »
    I don't think the third tier is anywhere near worth it. The EMP thing is useful against sectopods sure, but it only takes them out for one turn and you have to get up close. I haven't tried proximity mines though.

    Also I like mechs a lot more now, although I still think they have too many downsides compared to gene mods. The flamethrower is super funsies, and the aoe heal is fantastic. I think the concept needs a lot of tweaking (which probably won't happen at this point in the game's lifespan) but I think they're a solid addition.

    I think I heard that Firaxis is planning a second expansion like they did with Civilization 5, so anything's still possible. Brave New World changed a bunch of core gameplay things from vanilla civ 5 and first expansion.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    There will be a second expansion if Enemy Within sells well enough and 2K tells Firaxis to make another one.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    There will be a second expansion if Enemy Within sells well enough and 2K tells Firaxis to make another one.

    Isn't Firaxis pretty well-known for putting out 2 expansion packs per title?

    Civ III had Play the World and Conquests
    Civ IV had Warlords and BTS
    Civ V had G&K and BNW

    I guess Alpha Centauri only had Crossfire

    I'd bet on a second expansion, personally.

  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/the-future-of-xcom-rests-with-enemy-within/0123985
    “The future depends on how well the expansion is received,” Gupta told MCV.
    I've seen similar in other interviews, as well.

  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    so we talking about mecs versus gene mods here? pull up a chair....

    yes, Mimetic Skin is utterly broken. hard to argue the point. it would be less broken if the soldier actually camouflaged at the spot where he gets his high cover but as is the soldier instantly *BAMFs*. this needs a fix.

    anyhoo, talking I/I you need to get to the point where you can even get MS which means staying in the game until seekers show up. it also means surviving your first terror mission and other shit. the way to get there is MECs.

    MECs are so unbelievably good even on Impossible it is just silly. I was never able to play Impossible back before the expansion but MECs make it possible. fucking up cover and nuking cars. one-punching chryssalids like there is no tomorrow.

    sure, you cant overextend your MEC all the way. you also need some support for your MEC. but keeping your MEC alive is not all that difficult tbh. and when the shit hits the proverbial fan and you lose your MEC... oh boy. not fun times.

    also keep in mind the upgrade paths to your MECs. UFO Power Source unlocks tier 2 MECs iirc. Heavy Weapons Platform unlocks the upgraded punch.

    and don't diss EMP on MECs. with Training Roulette you have no guaranteed access to Disabling Shot or Lightning Reflexes. EMP goes on the fastest of your two MECs and it is a MEC priority.

  • sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Tube wrote: »
    Thorn413 wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    A duck! wrote: »
    I still think a combo of Mimetic Skin and the jump ability changes the game far more than MECs do (even MECs that can jump). If you're careful with your moves you can isolate groups and burn them down in a single turn without trouble.

    Assaults are pretty insane with mimetic skin. You can ghost right up to a hard target and wreck it with a double shot. With a berserker you then get a 3rd shot as it charges you. The close combat specialist thing is broke as hell when the enemy has no way of knowing where you are and just walks straight past you.

    Mimetic skin also turns snipers into super scouts and renders them even harder to kill. You can set up ridiculous shots with no danger. I don't even bother with any of the other meld stuff, because a squad full of mimetic skin users is just sick.

    The alternative to mimetic skin is the Bioelectric one right? The ability to find out where enemies are without having to have LoS with them is pretty useful too.

    Yeah but not as useful as being fucking invisible. You can scout things out and set up ambushes with mimetic, which is all bioelectric would really be good for.

    Also re: the gene mods design, I think it's a shame they didn't hit the body horror thing harder and have your soldiers look progressively more monstrous as you add more mods. There's a moment in that first mec cutscene where I thought "holy shit what did I just do to this man" but they don't really play that one out.

    Also I found elements of the base defence legitimately upsetting.

    I think they intentionally didn't want to make you feel like a mad scientist. They talk about how the proposal to bring deceased soldiers back to life to turn them into MEC soldiers was brought up during some of the dev diaries, and they decided that they didn't want to suggest that anyone went into the MEC program with anything less than a personal, eyes-wide-open choice. It doesn't really play that way in-game, you chose a guy and he does what you tell him to, but they felt there was a line there that they didn't want to cross, and that's how they drew it.

    What strikes ME as odd is why they didn't use some more obvious visual cues for the EXALT soldiers to really differentiate between the two organizations and their methods.

    sarukun on
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    yea, like the exalt elites sprouting extra limbs with the regen, going Ben Grimm with the iron skin, and creepy bug or head mods for the sniper.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I was under the impression that the MECs were just robot suits that anybody could Tony Stark into, so when I got my first trooper prepped and Dr. Shen was all "necessary amputations" I went "uhhhhhhhh" pretty hard

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  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I was under the impression that the MECs were just robot suits that anybody could Tony Stark into, so when I got my first trooper prepped and Dr. Shen was all "necessary amputations" I went "uhhhhhhhh" pretty hard

    yeah I flinch every time.

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited January 2014
    Also I think cyborgs that are all robot except for a meat head is a bad look

    Probably makes family gatherings less awkward I spose

    Hobnail on
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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    God, Slingshot sucks such a nut.

  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    edited January 2014
    tumblr_mxz7tkVybp1r4q5pio1_500.jpg
    mec trooper design is great

    i love all the actual design elements of xcom enemy unknow and enemy within, and the reasoning for everything
    but i'm having a devil of a time with the gameplay

    Antimatter on
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    There's a squishy meat part dangling off that chassis, gonna snag it on something

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  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    edited January 2014
    the only mechanical parts of them are arms and legs! they still have their head and torso (which is just covered in armor there), they can drink a beer with their fellow soldiers in their canteen and get drunk, they still have their brain and their heart, they're more human than human machine

    Antimatter on
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