The game being fast paced, all action is at odds with the subject matter is my point. Lovecraftian elements are kind of goofy face-to-face and really work better via fear of the unknown or alien. By putting the into an action game, where you can load buckshot into their flesh, you just make them another random enemy that just has a tentacle theme or a lack of eyes.
I mean, at some point, you'd just be making Doom again, but replacing Demons with Cthulhoids. That defeats the point of utilizing the Lovecraft elements, IMO.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Quake relates lovecraf works as much as Doom related to Christian mythology.
It might go against the horror ethos of eldritch creatures, but they're still fun to shoot. I found them much more interesting to blow away than I did the Strogg, although admittedly the Strogg theme did fit a run and gun shooter more than some of the original cast did. Entering the portals to each dimension to collect the runes, and blowing away corrupted soldiers and strange fleshy beings.
Although most of it was likely stuff that bled over from the original design idea of the game, which as we know eventually devolved into what was pretty much just another Doom. Sandy Peterson sure does love him some eldritch horrors.
Quake relates lovecraf works as much as Doom related to Christian mythology.
Eh, while you have a point, at some jucture I can't necassarily compare a 2000 year old religious mythology to a fictional series from the last century. Like, using demons as canonfodder at least seems subversive on some level; using Lovecraftian monsters as canonfodder seems just poor usage of an intellectual property.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Eh, thematically, Quake was basically just a continuation of the original DOOM games into a 3D engine: one guy versus hordes of unnamed horrors which show up because humanity messes around with things it shouldn't. Hell and Lovecraftian enemies are pretty interchangeable there, the big difference was basically the huge shift from 2D sprite-driven game design to 3D polygon-driven design. Without that 2D versus 3D part, the settings would be reeeeaaallly similar.
This latest DOOM feels like Quake on a modern 3D engine in the DOOM setting, which is fine with me. Heck, we even get a railgun.
I wouldn't really expect to see a new Quake game without some pretty huge changes to the setting/story, because it would now play quite a lot like DOOM.
Thinking about it more, I'm having difficulty properly articulating my feelings about this, which I'm going to assume is more a failing on my part than anything wrong with the concept, so I won't keep dragging down the dicussion. Bethesda has been 2 for 2 on the id revivals, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on #3.
Heh, I wonder if we'll ever see Heretic/Hexen again?
Undead Scottsman on
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MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
I would love to see some form of Heretic/HeXen make a return and link both Doom and Quake on some vague backstory level.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
It's all just a method to blast your way through heavy metal album covers.
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
My dream is for them all to be combined into one huge game.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Hrm, I didn't get a single crash in my entire first campaign playthrough, but now that I'm re-playing the last mission to get the secrets it keeps crashing randomly.
I don't like it. I like it better when it didn't crash.
Remember, positioning and aiming changes the glory kills you can do. Aim for all five limbs and the torso from the front, back, side and above. Chainsaw kills also count.
No, you're missing my point - When I performed a new glory kill the game adds it to an internal counter of how many different glory kills I have performed on an imp so far. The problem is that when the game crashed the progress wasn't reset on this counter, but it was on the level challenge screen.
So now, when I start the level, when I do a glory kill on an imp the game checks it against that first counter, sees that it has been used already, and doesn't count it for the mission, and since the game crashed twice after I did a bunch of different glory kills I'm stuck at 3/5 because I have done all of the various glory kills (so they are all in the counter) but the challenge doesn't update.
No, I got your point. I'm saying unless the game crashed on you 3 or 4 times, you should have enough glory kills left.
There aren't. I've gone through all of the normal ones, plus three different chainsaw ones, and none of them are registering. I've even done a bunch of imp kills while using a berserk powerup, but I'm not sure if those count.
I'm gonna try running through the level again to see if that does it, but it's such a pain in the ass knowing that the game will ctd at any time for no obvious reason.
Have you tried kills from above, both back and front?
Yeah, I even watched one of those "all Doom glory kills in one video" videos to make sure there weren't any I had missed.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Running through a lovely region of Hell on Nightmare. Pools of blood, rib-hone columns, pillars of fire. Nice, right? Not my first visit, so now I can appreciate things.
First Baron of Hell fight is up ahead. Let the Baron murder most of the crowd around him to save me the effort, then blast him with the gauss rifle. Biiiig fight ahead. All the enemy types so far. Murder everything. Kill a Summoner right when it pops up, and two Barons spawn. Kill the first one, but take a couple hits; on Nightmare, that means I'm hurting pretty bad, down in the critical range.
Second Baron winds up for a leap attack, and I zap him with the gauss rifle siege mode just as he takes off, causing health and meaty chunks to rain down from the sky. I scoop it all up, pleased with the outcome.
Then the final enemy wave spawns. Which is a good 6-8 Lost Souls. All in a screaming ring around me.
Yeah, I didn't make it very far.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Got the achievement worked out by finishing the level (after having to restart from a checkpoint after my weapons disappeared once a berserk powerup wore off).
Did the Snapmap tutorials and three or so matches to get to level 5 in multi and that is all of the achievements down. Now I think I'm going to see what cool stuff people have been doing with Snapmap.
There's a co-op horde arena that grants you enemy souls for each demon kill, that you can then spend them on increased health caps, special weapons and friendly demons. After about thirty minutes, we spawned a ton of friendly demons and the engine seemed incapable of spawning further enemy ones as a result.
The mod also roughly halved the health of most demons (aside from intermittent bosses), meaning almost every one of them could be torn through with a DBS within a second or two.
In short, a fun mod but needs some tweaking (ie max limit on friendly demons).
Kneel on
Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
There's a video floating around of someone who tried to make a remake of the 100,000 revenant Doom 2 map, and it turns out the engine will only spawn in 12 demons at a time.
Yeah, it's probably been the biggest "revelation" for mapmakers. Basically, you just can't spam baddies like in old doom, which I think is fine. The areas are small enough that the 12 limit can still produce the illusion of more with continuous spawning.
The original Doom engine had a limit of 128 enemy sprites onscreen at any given time if I remember right. This is why wads like nuts.wad have issues on vanilla Doom. Sourceports obviously fix that but it's kinda sad to see that a game from the early 90s had over 10 times as many enemies visible onscreen at any given time as its just released sequel.
Now, to be fair, it's a lot easier to display an enemy in sprite form than it is to display one made up of a ridiculously high number of textured, lit, and shaded polygons... but on the other hand the PC I'm looking at right now is many, many orders of magnitude more powerful than the ramshackle 386 I played the original Doom on, so I'm hesitant to consider that a good excuse.
The new doom allows infinite spawning, so while you can't just make a big room and slap a crapload of monsters and call it a day, you can create a map that will never run out of monsters. You can then randomize the monster type respawn and the respawn points and you basically have a map that can be a different encounter each time.
But you're most likely right, the 12 limit is probably console oriented.
The original Doom engine had a limit of 128 enemy sprites onscreen at any given time if I remember right. This is why wads like nuts.wad have issues on vanilla Doom. Sourceports obviously fix that but it's kinda sad to see that a game from the early 90s had over 10 times as many enemies visible onscreen at any given time as its just released sequel.
Now, to be fair, it's a lot easier to display an enemy in sprite form than it is to display one made up of a ridiculously high number of textured, lit, and shaded polygons... but on the other hand the PC I'm looking at right now is many, many orders of magnitude more powerful than the ramshackle 386 I played the original Doom on, so I'm hesitant to consider that a good excuse.
tl;dr - fucking consoles
I'm pretty sure 128 enemies would have murdered your 386. I seem to recall a user level that was filled with barons that would slow my 486 to a crawl.
Yeah, there were also vertex and linedef limits that would crash you to the DOS prompt. It's easy to forget that the current version of the original doom that everyone plays is running on hardware 20 years out and most likely includes modified source code that removes many of the original limitations.
I could talk doom wadding all day.
Lilnoobs on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The original Doom engine had a limit of 128 enemy sprites onscreen at any given time if I remember right. This is why wads like nuts.wad have issues on vanilla Doom. Sourceports obviously fix that but it's kinda sad to see that a game from the early 90s had over 10 times as many enemies visible onscreen at any given time as its just released sequel.
Now, to be fair, it's a lot easier to display an enemy in sprite form than it is to display one made up of a ridiculously high number of textured, lit, and shaded polygons... but on the other hand the PC I'm looking at right now is many, many orders of magnitude more powerful than the ramshackle 386 I played the original Doom on, so I'm hesitant to consider that a good excuse.
tl;dr - fucking consoles
I'm pretty sure 128 enemies would have murdered your 386. I seem to recall a user level that was filled with barons that would slow my 486 to a crawl.
Most of those maps with dense spawns like that came out after Pentiums hit the market.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
The original Doom engine had a limit of 128 enemy sprites onscreen at any given time if I remember right. This is why wads like nuts.wad have issues on vanilla Doom. Sourceports obviously fix that but it's kinda sad to see that a game from the early 90s had over 10 times as many enemies visible onscreen at any given time as its just released sequel.
Now, to be fair, it's a lot easier to display an enemy in sprite form than it is to display one made up of a ridiculously high number of textured, lit, and shaded polygons... but on the other hand the PC I'm looking at right now is many, many orders of magnitude more powerful than the ramshackle 386 I played the original Doom on, so I'm hesitant to consider that a good excuse.
tl;dr - fucking consoles
Why would you not consider that a good excuse? It's the best excuse, especially considering that those HD-poly models also have intricate animations, AI-behavior, pathing, etc...
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
I swear I'm like 30 hours in and still haven't beaten the nightmare campaign. I just like finding secrets and grinding rune upgrades and also the fights are pleasingly hard and frantic so I do a few then do something else.
I was a bit lukewarm on the game on my first normal mode run, but I'm starting to fall in love with it starting anew on nightmare--it just makes you appreciate the mechanics and design that much more.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Is there a trick to the final boss I'm just not getting?
I can chip away until he's at 1/2 Hp but all the extra crap in the second phase just murders me
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Upgraded chaingun mini-turret with infinite ammo rune is my weapon of choice now. Stuff just stops being intact when you turn it on. Only mancubi and barons last for more than a couple seconds.
It can lead to horrible, horrible moments however when you drop below the armor level necessary for the infinite ammo rune to work without realizing it. Then suddenly your ammo vanishes in an instant right when a baron comes barreling right at you.
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I mean, at some point, you'd just be making Doom again, but replacing Demons with Cthulhoids. That defeats the point of utilizing the Lovecraft elements, IMO.
Although most of it was likely stuff that bled over from the original design idea of the game, which as we know eventually devolved into what was pretty much just another Doom. Sandy Peterson sure does love him some eldritch horrors.
Eh, while you have a point, at some jucture I can't necassarily compare a 2000 year old religious mythology to a fictional series from the last century. Like, using demons as canonfodder at least seems subversive on some level; using Lovecraftian monsters as canonfodder seems just poor usage of an intellectual property.
This latest DOOM feels like Quake on a modern 3D engine in the DOOM setting, which is fine with me. Heck, we even get a railgun.
I wouldn't really expect to see a new Quake game without some pretty huge changes to the setting/story, because it would now play quite a lot like DOOM.
Heh, I wonder if we'll ever see Heretic/Hexen again?
I don't like it. I like it better when it didn't crash.
No, you're missing my point - When I performed a new glory kill the game adds it to an internal counter of how many different glory kills I have performed on an imp so far. The problem is that when the game crashed the progress wasn't reset on this counter, but it was on the level challenge screen.
So now, when I start the level, when I do a glory kill on an imp the game checks it against that first counter, sees that it has been used already, and doesn't count it for the mission, and since the game crashed twice after I did a bunch of different glory kills I'm stuck at 3/5 because I have done all of the various glory kills (so they are all in the counter) but the challenge doesn't update.
Quake III?
There aren't. I've gone through all of the normal ones, plus three different chainsaw ones, and none of them are registering. I've even done a bunch of imp kills while using a berserk powerup, but I'm not sure if those count.
I'm gonna try running through the level again to see if that does it, but it's such a pain in the ass knowing that the game will ctd at any time for no obvious reason.
Yeah, I even watched one of those "all Doom glory kills in one video" videos to make sure there weren't any I had missed.
First Baron of Hell fight is up ahead. Let the Baron murder most of the crowd around him to save me the effort, then blast him with the gauss rifle. Biiiig fight ahead. All the enemy types so far. Murder everything. Kill a Summoner right when it pops up, and two Barons spawn. Kill the first one, but take a couple hits; on Nightmare, that means I'm hurting pretty bad, down in the critical range.
Second Baron winds up for a leap attack, and I zap him with the gauss rifle siege mode just as he takes off, causing health and meaty chunks to rain down from the sky. I scoop it all up, pleased with the outcome.
Then the final enemy wave spawns. Which is a good 6-8 Lost Souls. All in a screaming ring around me.
Yeah, I didn't make it very far.
Or A because they're evil.
Did the Snapmap tutorials and three or so matches to get to level 5 in multi and that is all of the achievements down. Now I think I'm going to see what cool stuff people have been doing with Snapmap.
There's a co-op horde arena that grants you enemy souls for each demon kill, that you can then spend them on increased health caps, special weapons and friendly demons. After about thirty minutes, we spawned a ton of friendly demons and the engine seemed incapable of spawning further enemy ones as a result.
The mod also roughly halved the health of most demons (aside from intermittent bosses), meaning almost every one of them could be torn through with a DBS within a second or two.
In short, a fun mod but needs some tweaking (ie max limit on friendly demons).
Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
Now, to be fair, it's a lot easier to display an enemy in sprite form than it is to display one made up of a ridiculously high number of textured, lit, and shaded polygons... but on the other hand the PC I'm looking at right now is many, many orders of magnitude more powerful than the ramshackle 386 I played the original Doom on, so I'm hesitant to consider that a good excuse.
tl;dr - fucking consoles
But you're most likely right, the 12 limit is probably console oriented.
I'm pretty sure 128 enemies would have murdered your 386. I seem to recall a user level that was filled with barons that would slow my 486 to a crawl.
I could talk doom wadding all day.
Most of those maps with dense spawns like that came out after Pentiums hit the market.
Why would you not consider that a good excuse? It's the best excuse, especially considering that those HD-poly models also have intricate animations, AI-behavior, pathing, etc...
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
I can chip away until he's at 1/2 Hp but all the extra crap in the second phase just murders me
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The BFG stuns it, allowing a reprieve from damage and to get some hits in with short range weapons.
Upgrade the super shotty and the gauss cannon all the way if you haven't. Then get up in there real good.
There are also upgraded runes that make the game stupid.
Unlimited ammo with armor, plus fully upgraded chain gun mini turret or micro missile assault rifle
Improved ammo that drops BFG shots
Blow up the whole goddamn world
Big fan of this, it's been my go-to weapon since I came out of the sarcophagus. Fully upgraded, it effectively never runs out of ammo.
It can lead to horrible, horrible moments however when you drop below the armor level necessary for the infinite ammo rune to work without realizing it. Then suddenly your ammo vanishes in an instant right when a baron comes barreling right at you.