The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Roommate blues
Bucketman
Call meSkraggRegistered User regular
Call meSkraggRegistered User regular
I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately but damn it I need some advice!
Situation: My best friend and roommate (henceforth known as A for ease) has an older brother named J. J is...kind of a deadbeat. Recently he had his driving privdegeles taken away after getting DUI because hes dumb. Problem is he lives with his parents in the middle of nowhere and he works in town close to where we live. Well, sort of without asking, A is letting J crash here when he can't get a ride home. I had no problem with this sort of thing over the summer when J would get drunk and pass out on the couch, I'd rather he be here sleeping then trying to drive. The problem is now that hes here 3-4 days a week. Just sort of taking over the living room, watching netflix through my ps3 on my TV. He eats our food (A replaces it but I really feel like he shouldn't have to) makes dishes he doesn't clean up, uses our shower, and since he always smells like pot and cigaretts so too does our couch and living room. Hes not a jerk about anything, but he is just here all the time and hes not paying rent or anything, just taking up our space. Like tonight. My girlfriend and I came home from her parents, we rented a movie, but we can't watch it because hes just here. I asked if he would mind and hes just said "sure I'll just hang out on the other couch" now, I've known J a long time by my girlfriend just met him, and considering hes basically a homeless drifter, he freaks her out, and she didn't want to watch a romantic movie with him just sort of leering around. Its not like we couldn't just say "please leave the room" but where is the guy going to go?
I really just want some advice about if I should tell A his brother needs to clear out. I kind of want to, but I feel like it would be a dick move against a guy down on his luck, but hes annoying the hell out of me.
Situation: My best friend and roommate (henceforth known as A for ease) has an older brother named J. J is...kind of a deadbeat. Recently he had his driving privdegeles taken away after getting DUI because hes dumb. Problem is he lives with his parents in the middle of nowhere and he works in town close to where we live. Well, sort of without asking, A is letting J crash here when he can't get a ride home. I had no problem with this sort of thing over the summer when J would get drunk and pass out on the couch, I'd rather he be here sleeping then trying to drive. The problem is now that hes here 3-4 days a week. Just sort of taking over the living room, watching netflix through my ps3 on my TV. He eats our food (A replaces it but I really feel like he shouldn't have to) makes dishes he doesn't clean up, uses our shower, and since he always smells like pot and cigaretts so too does our couch and living room. Hes not a jerk about anything, but he is just here all the time and hes not paying rent or anything, just taking up our space. Like tonight. My girlfriend and I came home from her parents, we rented a movie, but we can't watch it because hes just here. I asked if he would mind and hes just said "sure I'll just hang out on the other couch" now, I've known J a long time by my girlfriend just met him, and considering hes basically a homeless drifter, he freaks her out, and she didn't want to watch a romantic movie with him just sort of leering around. Its not like we couldn't just say "please leave the room" but where is the guy going to go?
I really just want some advice about if I should tell A his brother needs to clear out. I kind of want to, but I feel like it would be a dick move against a guy down on his luck, but hes annoying the hell out of me.
0
Posts
Personally, If you have a car, I would offer him a ride home. Basically saying "I have given you the means to not stay at my place, so if you'd rather be here, then you need to cough up rent, because I'm losing the functionality of my living room."
Just be prepared that all these conversations may not go perfectly and rationally, and you should look to the future of moving out and other such fallback plans, so if you need to execute quickly, you can. In the best situation, this precaution will have been completely unnecessary, but I wouldn't count on the best situation.
I am sure he is a ok guy or whatever, but empathizing with someone is never going to make your very-reasonable boundaries magically disappear, so you're gonna need to enforce them one way or another.
I would definitely start browsing craigslist for a new living situation, though. It will be very hard for your friend to tell his brother to sort his life out/keep it a mess anywhere but your apartment, and then maintain that boundary. Maybe he will be able to, but I would have a backup plan in place for when you make it clear that is not a living situation you are comfortable with.
I have actually offered him a ride home before! The problem is that he shows up randomly because he will spend time at other friends houses or the bar (Which is great since hes on probation) so this isn't always an option. Also its about 25 miles away. Thats 50 miles back and forth. Thats a lot of gas
So, the first thing that popped into my head was, what is the long term goal of this situation, whats the end game? Is your roommate planning on allowing J to crash on your couch until he decides he doesn't want to any more? Is J doing anything to remedy the situation, like finding alternate permanent transportation or housing that is closer to his work?
Its been my experience that people like J will take advantage of any situation that benefits them for as long, and as much as they can, until they are thrown out. From your description of J using all your food and TV and shower etc, sounds like he has made himself right at home. The concept that they are intruding, or overstaying their welcome, or need to improve their own situation are totally foreign to them.
So, Do talk to your friend and roommate and find out what his plans are, and let him know what your feelings on the subject are. However, be prepared that he may side with his brother and you may have to find a new place to live if you want to separate your self from J.
If things start getting heated, suggest you take a break and revisit the topic after both of you have had time to clear your heads.
Does "him" refer to the brother or your roommate?
But your roommate needs to understand that if it concerns the apartment, it -isn't- his choice.
However, (and again, I may be a bit jaded here) but be prepared for J to be extremely slow with the process to find another job or place to live. Things are pretty comfy for him here, and most people I have met like J are immune from feeling like a mooch.
So keep your eyes open, and see if he is going to interviews, looking at places to rent and the sort of thing you would expect to happen when someone is motivated to get a job and a place to live. If you do not see these things happening, then you may want to consider other living arrangements. your friend A is probably not going to increase the pressure on his brother any more then is currently happening.
If you're jaded, so am I (same as you, I have family experience of this type).
It might help to have a set date, ie "You may use this place as a hangout until 11/30/13, after which your crashing privleges cease or you will be charged rent" Though getting all parties to agree with something like that could be like pulling teeth. Really it would be better to give this information to the reasonable brother, and let him communicate that information to his mooch brother however he likes, that you are only willing to put up with this until such and such a date.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Be careful drawing any lines in the sand, unless you are prepared to follow through. Ultimately the only thing you can control is your actions. You can hope the A will do what you want, but if the alternative is throwing J out on the cold street, then that's probably not going to happen.
I would expect, unless you begin to see evidence to the contrary, that J is going to be your new roommate for a while. Prepare accordingly.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Appearently he never had a job! It was just a one time thing, and now hes "looking around town" for work. The problem is that A doesn't see there being a problem with this, and while I have the option of tossing his brother out, that will really strain the relationship with him and I, and hes sort of my best friend.
The thing that really makes me mad is that A is a really great, loyal, and helpful guy. J is just taking advantage of that. Spends all day "looking for job" at a local coffee shop, and all night out with friends or sitting around watching TV at our place. Thankfully he now has a deadline.
Probably, but you'd have to consult lease. But rigidly enforcing your rights in that way, even if morally justified in some sense, is sure to ruin your friendship with your best friend, so is not worth doing. As you note, your roommate probably feels really torn - I am sure he does not want to make things hard for you, but he also wants to help a family member.
If this keeps up and roomie refuses to enforce the line in the sand he drew with his brother, you should give a deadline where _you_ will move out and go somewhere else. Your friend at that point will hopefully recognize that he will lose you as a roommate and be more serious with his brother. But, if he can't stand up to his brother, you don't want to be there anyway.
Shes not going to do anything even if he decides to stay long term. Horrary backed into a corner!
It sucks that your roommate is your friend and that you seem to be getting involved with his familial issues, but the reality of living with somebody is that you enter a business relationship and you need to be able to compartmentalize that when you get taken advantage of in the way that's going on currently.
Your current living arrangement is 1) unacceptable and 2) not what was agreed to when you moved into the space. It sounds like at least a verbal deadline for this dude to be gone has been discussed, so you should be firm about that and about the fact that if the problem isn't resolved by then you'll be vacating the apartment. If you're not ready to do that there's really nothing else you can do; the guy will stay until your roommate or the landlord get fed up with him, which might be never.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
When it comes to family, and it sounds like you are knee deep in A & J's family, people do irrational things. its not like he can just be rid of J and never see him again, he is going to be around and so there is a strong incentive to not make things difficult with J and the rest of the family.
I can only hope that your friend, who you describe as a great guy, can understand where your coming from. Like Nasty pig said, you did not sign up for this, and its not reasonable for anyone to expect you to just learn to live with it.
a)get a job
or
b)move out.
We gave him one month, wrote it on a notepad on the fridge, and then didn't give any reminders because he was a big boy.
At the month deadline we sat him down and told him he had to leave. This caused a rift in our friendship for a few years, but it healed eventually. If you set a deadline you absolutely need to follow through, because everybody above is right, he's not going to adhere to it if you don't.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
Does your girlfriend live with you?
What you want to avoid is a situation where you walk away without a resolution because you got put on the defensive during the discussion. Because of the family connection you can't expect much to be conceded to you or given on good faith (which isn't an attack on your buddy, it's just how it'll go.)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I agree with this. The only thing I would change is that I think you should give him till the deadline in case, just because now that something's been more firmly stated it seems like a good idea to give it a chance. But after that, this. If the guy doesn't leave when it was agreed that he should leave, just move out yourself if it's possible. I don't know how close you two are, but if the guy doesn't leave it's going to be you in between your girlfriend and your friend who is in between you and his brother, and that's a lot of tension for one household and somebody is going to lose.
This is all on the money but I'd try and make sure I have a conversation with the friend. Stress you understand why he's trying to help his brother but you've got to honor your girlfriend's feelings as well. Mostly you don't just want to tell him in a month "Hey, I'm leaving Monday" but don't be passive aggressive about it either "Guess I have to look for a new place..."
It is entirely possible that everybody is acting appropriately and you guys no longer end up as roommates.
I don't know if moving out is not an option for you, if that's the case then I am sorry. Its going to be tense for a while.
Your friend A is in an un-winnable situation here. Either he kicks his brother out, making you happy and making his family unhappy. (his family who happens to also be his landlord) Or he placates you, making you increasingly unhappy and he ends up with a satisfied family, and a possibly ruined friendship.
In an ideal world, J would catch the hint. Get a job, clean up his act and get his own place! but, its kind of crazy to think that this is the watershed moment that will cause that to happen.
Why would he? From his point of view, the OP is an uptight control freak.
I'm sure slacker boy is totally intending to get a job. When the right one comes along. Whenever that may be.