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Crusader Kings 2; Charlemagne vs Carloman, Fratricide 2.0

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Posts

  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    I think for an alliance you need...
    • For both rulers to be married to one another
    • A marriage between a ruler, their sibling, or their child in any combination (ruler+other ruler's sibling, marriage between two biological children or adopted and legitimized, marrying your kid to a ruler or a ruler's sibling, ect).
    • Be of the same dynasty
    • And I think parents also work into that equation? Can't say I have a lot of experience playing while my father is still alive as their child, and even if not then he'd be of your dynasty likely anyways. Maybe mothers are useless in this regard if they simply re-marry later in life?

    However, more distant relatives and step-children absolutely don't count. Half-brothers and half-sisters do, but kids from a previous marriage that don't have any of your DNA floating around in them are useless for alliances. Aunts/Uncles/Cousins also aren't marriage-alliance material, but from being the same dynasty can become allies if you get them on a throne elsewhere.

  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    The reason I ask is that I can wrangle a marriage to a pretty powerful ruler, but he's 70 years old and probably about to die, so I'm not sure if the marriage will mean anything after he dies. I suspect probably not since even if they got their septuagenarian freak on, any children she had wouldn't be related to the heir.

    Space.
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    From my perspective alliances seem to rarely carry over once the leader you're allied with dies. I've never known the explicit rules on it because the game isn't very clear about them, but I write it off as being a great simulation of the fickleness of real life alliances, back when no papers were signed and it was just the honor of the individuals involved.

    Endaro on
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    In order to be allied, you need to be either of the same dynasty, closely related or an in-law of the other ruler. If you want an alliance which persists into the next generation, you have to make sure that your heir is sibling-in-law to the foreign heir.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    The reason I ask is that I can wrangle a marriage to a pretty powerful ruler, but he's 70 years old and probably about to die, so I'm not sure if the marriage will mean anything after he dies. I suspect probably not since even if they got their septuagenarian freak on, any children she had wouldn't be related to the heir.

    I once did a similar thing and there was indeed a child and it resulted in a game-over for me. Remember that if you enter into a regular marriage with a foreign ruler for the sake of an alliance, the child will remain in their court and also inherit claims on your holdings. If they get placed on the throne by a faction, they will try to press their claims against your heir. Rarely it also happens that the AI will try to press the claims of close relatives.

    Platy on
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Charlemagne is 75% off on steam today, I believe that's the first time it has been on super sale so I finally picked it up.

    Sadly way of life is still full price

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    HerothVeagleFiendishrabbit
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Same here, and same basic reaction towards Way of Life not being on sale.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
    HerothAuralynx
  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    I finally picked it up too. Anybody have any suggestions for good places to start with the new earlier starting point?

    steam_sig.png
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited February 2015
    Old Gods is also on sale, so I guess I'm going to be picking that up later. For some reason I've become obsessed with starting a Scottish empire, maybe that'll be more feasible if I go back to a time before England is united. I feel like 1066 is super hard, but late medieval is too easy.

    Mr Ray on
    Space.
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    I haven't played since Charlemagnes release, but I remember hearing a lot about balance problems (seduce?) and bugs after the release of Way of Life. Is that still an issue, or alternatively, will I not see them with just the patch but not the expansion?

    Delmain
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Picked up Charlamagne. Started a Viking game. Plodded along as proto-Sweden for a while, may have expanded too quickly since I was running out of easy things to conquer when the peace penalty kicked in after a bit, and then watched the seas explode when the Viking Age officially kicked off and every Norse seemed to go raiding.

    I've formed the Kingdom of Sweden with my second ruler and only have two sons since my wife and 3 concubines popped out six or seven daughters in row. Starting to eye reforming the faith but that requires taking over some counties not in my de jure kingdom and may need to wait a bit. Getting the moral authority is usually the toughest part though.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Forming an 867 Viking Scottish empire was really fun in the past, I haven't tried it with the new mechanics though.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Forming an 867 Viking Scottish empire was really fun in the past, I haven't tried it with the new mechanics though.

    Tribal makes things really different. I haven't had to deal with the crazier succession crises they have yet because I'm only on my second ruler and the first two in proto-Sweden are scripted to be really strong but you are so starved for money at the beginning. Many of your buildings are built using prestige instead but a few key buildings plus army upkeep still use money not to mention forming titles. Since other tribal holdings have crappy income to loot, it's likely very tough to do tribal games unless you're Norse in which case you get free shipyards in 793 to help with sea raids (coastal cities in non-Pagan areas are basically under constant attack for a while after that fires) or start next to a feudal power you can raid by land.

    Get a few vassals though and your armies are huge. You get more troops from counties with undeveloped holdings (and can't build them either) and until high tribal authority, calling your vassals to war makes them act as allies getting a call to arms. When they accept, they bring their entire levy to follow you around.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    Endaro wrote: »
    I haven't played since Charlemagnes release, but I remember hearing a lot about balance problems (seduce?) and bugs after the release of Way of Life. Is that still an issue, or alternatively, will I not see them with just the patch but not the expansion?

    I believe they tweaked the ease of seduce in a hotfix, so it's a wee bit harder for some random count to seduce the Empress of the byzantine empire.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
    Auralynx
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    AI rulers also use the seduction focus less often now. Some consider the entire focus system unbalanced, but that's mostly an issue if you game it as a human player.

    As far as bugs go, Way of Life had surprisingly few associated with it. There's still leftover bugs from Charlemagne which they haven't fixed.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    AI rulers also use the seduction focus less often now. Some consider the entire focus system unbalanced, but that's mostly an issue if you game it as a human player.

    As far as bugs go, Way of Life had surprisingly few associated with it. There's still leftover bugs from Charlemagne which they haven't fixed.

    I'm not sure "able to shore up my character's weak points without sitting there with my fingers crossed hoping a good event fires," is unbalanced.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
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    Geth
  • The SauceThe Sauce Fleur de Alys Registered User regular
    Tribal games are easy. You should only have to deal with one, maybe two successions, before you've reformed and gone feudal. If you manage things right, you can make sure your primary heir for that succession is both awesome and gets plenty of stuff (while being allied to siblings' breakoff kingdoms).

    The biggest trick is maintaining your new, half-feudal kingdom while you work on upgrading all the castle holdings (your vassals are going to be really slow at it while also hating you more because of wrong type). It'll be one or two full rulers' lifetimes of just converting to castles before you really get up and go back on a conquering spree -- and if you first target the splinter kingdoms you lost from elective gavelkind, then you get to repeat the process to upgrade each of those kingdoms.

    It's kind of nice, though, because it's just about the only thing in CK2 that does halt you from going on a mass empire-building conquest spree.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    WoL adds more to your experience than Charlemagne, if you ask me (if you already own ToG).

  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    Unless you really like dealing with dangerous factions, you probably don't want to reform and go feudal at the same time. Also, pretty sure any tribe can raid anyone, even the same religion so if you don't mind potentially hurting your own religion's moral authority, burn them churches down.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
  • The SauceThe Sauce Fleur de Alys Registered User regular
    BYToady wrote: »
    Unless you really like dealing with dangerous factions, you probably don't want to reform and go feudal at the same time. Also, pretty sure any tribe can raid anyone, even the same religion so if you don't mind potentially hurting your own religion's moral authority, burn them churches down.
    Yeah, you need to convert all your vassals to your reformed faith before switching to feudal. This is usually pretty easy; make sure they love you and demand conversion. Proselytize the wishy-washy ones, then provoke the rest into revolt so you can replace them with vassals of the proper faith.

    Also make sure your most powerful dukes have their primary holding ready to go castle before you switch yourself to feudal. That way you make them feudal at the same time.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • nefffffffffffnefffffffffff Registered User regular
    How do you guys reform so fast? In my 763 swede start norway and denmark both formed really quick and prevented me from grabbing the appropriate holy sites. Was that just a fluke?

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  • jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    Charlemagne is only 33% for me. Most of the other DLC is 75% though.

    Basing digital prices on physical borders is so weird.

    bgg / steam / goodreads / Bnet: Bygasto#2537
    EndaroVeagleYogo
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Didn't they recently change it so that we can't gift things across borders? If not, I'd be happy to snag it at 75% off in the US and send it to you.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
  • The SauceThe Sauce Fleur de Alys Registered User regular
    edited February 2015
    How do you guys reform so fast? In my 763 swede start norway and denmark both formed really quick and prevented me from grabbing the appropriate holy sites. Was that just a fluke?
    Why would that stop you? Sweden can take on either Norway or Denmark.

    Anyway, if your target is stronger than you use your councilors to get free armies and save up cash and prestige for mercs and more free armies, then charge! You can weaken them first with some well-placed raiding; you can use raids to surgically destroy individual enemy armies (they combine fast when you declare, but if you raid you can catch more of them before they group up and maybe even wipe out all their forces like this; of course you need them to have levies raised, such as when they're raiding themselves or fighting some civil war, though often they'll raise levies as soon as you enter with a raiding party). Also siege down the target counties. Withdraw, declare war, move back in, and you can assault to quickly boost your war score and nab your target(s). This works best if they have good allies to bring in, because they can't bring in those allies just because you're raiding.

    The Sauce on
    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    jakobagger wrote: »
    Charlemagne is only 33% for me. Most of the other DLC is 75% though.

    Basing digital prices on physical borders is so weird.

    It looks like the 75% for Charlemagne was in error, and existed only yesterday. It has been changed everywhere to 33%.

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Way of Life adds so much more than just the focus system. It really is worth the purchase.

    DarkPrimusComradebot
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    How do you guys reform so fast? In my 763 swede start norway and denmark both formed really quick and prevented me from grabbing the appropriate holy sites. Was that just a fluke?

    Your son with the Swedish start is scripted to become really strong martially which gives you some really powerful armies. If you expand enough with your first ruler you'll be in a good position to fabricate a claim on the Norway and Danish sites and bring in a bigger army than they have, especially if they deal with uprisings or failed raids.

    It's the moral authority that's blocking me from reforming the faith now so I'm looking at raiding a lot of temples and not just the monotheistic ones.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • nefffffffffffnefffffffffff Registered User regular
    I see, sounds like I missed my chance. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to start over, again.

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  • jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    Endaro wrote: »
    jakobagger wrote: »
    Charlemagne is only 33% for me. Most of the other DLC is 75% though.

    Basing digital prices on physical borders is so weird.

    It looks like the 75% for Charlemagne was in error, and existed only yesterday. It has been changed everywhere to 33%.

    Ah ok. While I'm still sad I missed it, now at least I don't have to be angry about geography.

    bgg / steam / goodreads / Bnet: Bygasto#2537
    Delmain
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I see, sounds like I missed my chance. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to start over, again.

    The tribal mechanics alone take some getting used to. You get extremely big jumps in power from holding counties and starting with a Martial liege makes your levies really, really big compared to many of your neighbors. You have nothing to build so you go on the warpath immediately which is far more aggressive than I'm used to playing. First ruler had almost all of de jure Sweden under his control within a few decades and started taking Finnish counties to avoid prestige penalties for not fighting. Then the Age of Vikings event fired off in 793 and it was raiding all the time since that's how you have to make your money as a tribal leader, not just a side venture.

    The second ruler had enough money as a result of his father's raiding to fabricate claims when needed. I could have taken one of the other holy sites with the first ruler if I used the one subjugation CB not related to being king of Sweden on it but then I'd have non-contiguous borders early which I don't like for some reason.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    also watch out for the Abbasid blob in the first hundred years of Charlemagne.

    They're a pain in the ass.

  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Haha, wow. I'd completely forgotten that I nearly bought the Old Gods and a few unit and portrait packs on Sunday night whilst drunk. Fortunately drunk me reasoned that I shouldn't make impulse purchases under the influence, and I should instead just add them to my cart and let sober me decide whether I should buy them at a later date, since I wasn't planning on playing right then and there anyway. Lo and behold, they go on a 75% off sale the very next day. Thank you drunk me, its good to know you've got my back.

    I've also finally decided on my next ruler; King Æthelred of Wessex. Historically he would do little of note besides lose a major battle to the hilariously named "Ivar the Boneless", but his 18-year-old (at the time Old Gods begins) half brother would succeed him as King Alfred the Great. Alfred was a pretty cool dude, and was basically the man who finally got England's collective shit together after having been a punching bag for the Vikings for over a century, uniting them under one banner, driving out the Vikings, and also burning some cakes that one time. I know this because I grew up near Winchester, which was the capital of Wessex at the time, and has a big statue of him in the middle (this one), so naturally the history nerd in me popped a big rubbery one at the realization that I could play as him. Also the city in Wessex county is Southampton, where I was born. My path is clear. I shall fight for the glory of my ancestors, fight off the Viking invaders, and leave no cake unburnt! For the glory of Wessex!

    Space.
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    Haha, wow. I'd completely forgotten that I nearly bought the Old Gods and a few unit and portrait packs on Sunday night whilst drunk. Fortunately drunk me reasoned that I shouldn't make impulse purchases under the influence, and I should instead just add them to my cart and let sober me decide whether I should buy them at a later date, since I wasn't planning on playing right then and there anyway. Lo and behold, they go on a 75% off sale the very next day. Thank you drunk me, its good to know you've got my back.

    I've also finally decided on my next ruler; King Æthelred of Wessex. Historically he would do little of note besides lose a major battle to the hilariously named "Ivar the Boneless", but his 18-year-old (at the time Old Gods begins) half brother would succeed him as King Alfred the Great. Alfred was a pretty cool dude, and was basically the man who finally got England's collective shit together after having been a punching bag for the Vikings for over a century, uniting them under one banner, driving out the Vikings, and also burning some cakes that one time. I know this because I grew up near Winchester, which was the capital of Wessex at the time, and has a big statue of him in the middle (this one), so naturally the history nerd in me popped a big rubbery one at the realization that I could play as him. Also the city in Wessex county is Southampton, where I was born. My path is clear. I shall fight for the glory of my ancestors, fight off the Viking invaders, and leave no cake unburnt! For the glory of Wessex!

    Alfred is to real history what Arthur is to fake history.


    Dinosaurs were made up by the CIA to discourage time travel.
    Mr RayCommander Zoom
  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    elf counsel

    ShadowhopeElvenshaeCommander Zoomjakobagger
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    Also, Paradox has apparently been doing internal tests of CK2 on a tablet.

    I think that the biggest hurdles would probably be resource use (if my gaming PC chugs after a century or two, then a tablet would commit suicide long before then) and the interface. The interface could be reworked, and I think that you could basically port most of the base game's mechanics into a tablet form if you used just a portion of the map. If the map was just Britain and Ireland, it'd probably run fine. You'd perhaps want to rename the game to reflect the lack of crusading, and offer up 867 as the default start date (maybe with 1066 available).

    Dinosaurs were made up by the CIA to discourage time travel.
    Delmain
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Alright, so I completely understand why Æthelred got whooped in real-life; Ivar does not fuck around. He has about 10,000 men to Æthelred's 4-5k, so you can only really beat him if the Mercians are smart and fight with you rather than throwing themselves at Ivar separately. And then even if you beat him, 500-man raiding parties from other Viking nations keep appearing on the south coast every couple of months. This is going to be a challenge for sure.

    I'm just wondering what I need to do to make sure that Alfred succeeds Æthelred. In real-life they made a pact that whichever of them outlived the other would become King of all England, and Æthelred's children were of little consequence if he even had any. But obviously I'd like him to have some children for political purposes, I just don't want them inheriting the throne. I'm wondering if I can set things up so that Alfred still inherits; does "Seniority" succession count half-brothers? And also, I don't seem to be able to marry off Alfred; if I right-click him and choose "arrange marriage", I can only pick people from my own court, but I'd like to marry him off to a Scottish or Welsh princess if possible. If it comes to it I can always save the game, load it up as Alfred and have him arrange his own marriage I suppose, but that seems kind of clunky. Is there any chance he'll choose a wife of his own accord?

    Space.
  • Oh My GodOh My God Registered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    Alright, so I completely understand why Æthelred got whooped in real-life; Ivar does not fuck around. He has about 10,000 men to Æthelred's 4-5k, so you can only really beat him if the Mercians are smart and fight with you rather than throwing themselves at Ivar separately. And then even if you beat him, 500-man raiding parties from other Viking nations keep appearing on the south coast every couple of months. This is going to be a challenge for sure.

    I'm just wondering what I need to do to make sure that Alfred succeeds Æthelred. In real-life they made a pact that whichever of them outlived the other would become King of all England, and Æthelred's children were of little consequence if he even had any. But obviously I'd like him to have some children for political purposes, I just don't want them inheriting the throne. I'm wondering if I can set things up so that Alfred still inherits; does "Seniority" succession count half-brothers? And also, I don't seem to be able to marry off Alfred; if I right-click him and choose "arrange marriage", I can only pick people from my own court, but I'd like to marry him off to a Scottish or Welsh princess if possible. If it comes to it I can always save the game, load it up as Alfred and have him arrange his own marriage I suppose, but that seems kind of clunky. Is there any chance he'll choose a wife of his own accord?

    Pretty sure that the reason you can't dictate to Alfred who he marries is because he isn't a member of your court. If you aren't stressing out about Ironmanning, you can use the console command 'charinfo' to see what Alfred's ID# is by mousing over his portrait, and then using 'play' followed by that ID number to become him. Once that's accomplished, you can set up the marriage you want and then use 'play' and your original character's ID# to hop back. Make sure you're paused (and remain paused!) while you do all this, or the AI will royally mess up whatever you've achieved as Æthelred.

    Seniority picks the oldest living member of the dynasty who is eligible for inheritance; so, so long as there isn't an uncle hanging around, that could work.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    ugh wish Way of Life was on sale somewhere, would love to pick it up as well now that I finally have charlemagne

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Also, Paradox has apparently been doing internal tests of CK2 on a tablet.

    I think that the biggest hurdles would probably be resource use (if my gaming PC chugs after a century or two, then a tablet would commit suicide long before then) and the interface. The interface could be reworked, and I think that you could basically port most of the base game's mechanics into a tablet form if you used just a portion of the map. If the map was just Britain and Ireland, it'd probably run fine. You'd perhaps want to rename the game to reflect the lack of crusading, and offer up 867 as the default start date (maybe with 1066 available).

    They could tone down the graphics. Somthing that looks like CK1 but plays like 2 on a table would be nice.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    It took a lot of pillaging of temples even when my boats couldn't hold any more loot, but I reformed the Germanic faith by the early 800s.

    It's going to be a while before I can afford to go feudal though. Feudal armies are big enough that I can get away with quick 500ish man raids easy, not that I'd want to since fort levels are higher on most places worth raiding. My current ruler, the son of Ragnar, got lucky in getting Siege Leader as a combat specialty though so doing more full on raids is viable.

    Elective gavelkind still confuses. This was the first heir to have a brother that stuff had to be split with. Said brother fired a faction off and got crushed, had a duchy and county revoked (I had a claim on the latter), has no sons, and is waiting in my dungeons for a chance for me to torture him to an earlier death so I can inherit all of his stuff. Yet despite this, he's been elected my heir. I have two sons still being tutored so hopefully one of them draws more attention once he comes of age and is able to gain prestige as opposed to sitting in jail.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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