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It's [Science!]

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Wouldn't the more immediate issue be the constant bombardment of solar radiation?

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    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Yes, radiation would be the bigger problem.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Yes, radiation would be the bigger problem.

    That's another thing in the category of 'probably not that bad'. Life survived on Earth without a magnetic field for a long period of time. A thicker atmosphere on Mars would present a fair barrier to high energy particles and Mars is further out so overall less intense.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Exactly. Mars is tectonically dead.

    In 2012 UCLA discovered the presence of plate tectonics on Mars.

    Though tectonics and the magnetic field are two different things.
    The magnetic field is believed to be produced by the spinning of an iron core within the center of the planet, why Mars lost it's field is unknown.

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Awesome, I'm happy to be corrected, that's really interesting.

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    I think the fact that Mars lost its magnetic field due to solidifiction of its core is well understood.

    I'll ask my geology professor when he shows up for class in 15 minutes.

    What I believe is less well understood is why Earth's core became so hot in such a sustained fashion. Mars core cooling is, I believe, the predicted outcome, while Earths core is the anomaly.

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    I think the fact that Mars lost its magnetic field due to solidifiction of its core is well understood.

    I'll ask my geology professor when he shows up for class in 15 minutes.

    What I believe is less well understood is why Earth's core became so hot in such a sustained fashion. Mars core cooling is, I believe, the predicted outcome, while Earths core is the anomaly.

    higher concentrations of radioactive materials within the crust/core.

    i think

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Yes, radiation would be the bigger problem.

    That's another thing in the category of 'probably not that bad'. Life survived on Earth without a magnetic field for a long period of time. A thicker atmosphere on Mars would present a fair barrier to high energy particles and Mars is further out so overall less intense.

    Yeah, but it was microbial life on the bottom of an ocean. Life didn't really expand until the earth developed an ozone layer.

    The surface of mars get about 0.64 millisieverts of radiation per day which is quite close to the evacuation zone around Fukushima reactor. You won't die right away but the cumulative radiation is really bad for any life forms that want to live there. So... giant roaches?

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Yes, radiation would be the bigger problem.

    That's another thing in the category of 'probably not that bad'. Life survived on Earth without a magnetic field for a long period of time. A thicker atmosphere on Mars would present a fair barrier to high energy particles and Mars is further out so overall less intense.

    Yeah, but it was microbial life on the bottom of an ocean. Life didn't really expand until the earth developed an ozone layer.

    The surface of mars get about 0.64 millisieverts of radiation per day which is quite close to the evacuation zone around Fukushima reactor. You won't die right away but the cumulative radiation is really bad for any life forms that want to live there. So... giant roaches?

    lead roof

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Yes, radiation would be the bigger problem.

    That's another thing in the category of 'probably not that bad'. Life survived on Earth without a magnetic field for a long period of time. A thicker atmosphere on Mars would present a fair barrier to high energy particles and Mars is further out so overall less intense.

    Yeah, but it was microbial life on the bottom of an ocean. Life didn't really expand until the earth developed an ozone layer.

    The surface of mars get about 0.64 millisieverts of radiation per day which is quite close to the evacuation zone around Fukushima reactor. You won't die right away but the cumulative radiation is really bad for any life forms that want to live there. So... giant roaches?

    lead roof

    Heck, if we're mining asteroids by that point; gold roof.

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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Or even some kind of subterranean (submartian?) dwelling. Just need a few feet of rock above your head to block radiation, right?

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Trace wrote: »
    I think the fact that Mars lost its magnetic field due to solidifiction of its core is well understood.

    I'll ask my geology professor when he shows up for class in 15 minutes.

    What I believe is less well understood is why Earth's core became so hot in such a sustained fashion. Mars core cooling is, I believe, the predicted outcome, while Earths core is the anomaly.

    higher concentrations of radioactive materials within the crust/core.

    i think

    Earth also has a proportionally larger core from its impact with Theia.

    Taranis on
    EH28YFo.jpg
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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    The two planets collided, with debris from the mantle eventually forming the Moon and Theia's core merging with ours.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

    EH28YFo.jpg
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    As super-sciencey as terraforming mars would be. Yeah -- the 'real' problem is the solar wind would just scour anything we put there.

    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    While earth was molten all the heavier stuff sunk to the core. Including material added in collisions.

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    Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    As super-sciencey as terraforming mars would be. Yeah -- the 'real' problem is the solar wind would just scour anything we put there.

    Over a vastly longer time span than even terraforming, though. It just means your terraforming effort needs to be maintained, which is...no different than anything humans build. The Earth is a fairly hostile environment in a lot of ways, after all.

    The real problem with terraforming Mars is there's no point; if you have the technology necessary to put that much effort into another planet, you can just build an O'Neill cylinder.

    Professor Phobos on
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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    The two planets collided, with debris from the mantle eventually forming the Moon and Theia's core merging with ours.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

    Right, but how do we know that Theia's had a hot core? And how would that be different than any other planet that formed. Or was it the actual impact itself that created the heat energy?

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    I think the fact that Mars lost its magnetic field due to solidifiction of its core is well understood.

    I'll ask my geology professor when he shows up for class in 15 minutes.

    What I believe is less well understood is why Earth's core became so hot in such a sustained fashion. Mars core cooling is, I believe, the predicted outcome, while Earths core is the anomaly.

    higher concentrations of radioactive materials within the crust/core.

    i think

    Right, right I remember now. Early attempts to measure the age of the earty scientificlly by calculating cooling rates were way low because no one knew bout radioactivity yet.
    I love this phone, with its occasionally working a key

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    TaranisTaranis Registered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    The two planets collided, with debris from the mantle eventually forming the Moon and Theia's core merging with ours.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

    Right, but how do we know that Theia's had a hot core? And how would that be different than any other planet that formed. Or was it the actual impact itself that created the heat energy?

    All planets were hot when they formed. Some aren't still because they cooled off.

    EH28YFo.jpg
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    destroyah87destroyah87 They/Them Preferred: She/Her - Please UseRegistered User regular
    Taranis wrote: »
    How would Thea affected Earth's core?

    The two planets collided, with debris from the mantle eventually forming the Moon and Theia's core merging with ours.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

    Right, but how do we know that Theia's had a hot core? And how would that be different than any other planet that formed. Or was it the actual impact itself that created the heat energy?

    We don't know that Thea would have had a hot core, though it's a very high probabality that it would have due to the relatively young age of the solar system at the time of the collision.

    A glancing blow sufficient to destroy Thea, leave the young Earth intact, and eventually lead to the formation of the Moon would have been an extremely energetic event. That, along with the added material of Thea that sunk into Earth's core is probably the major source of the additional heat that has kept Earth's core molten.

    camo_sig2.png
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    NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    so im sure you guys have heard about the comet landing and such. that's so fucking cool. like moon landing worthy of cool.

    what's not cool was that it was a 5minute blurb on HLN sandwiched between two 15minute blurbs of the rising tensions in ukraine and ISIS tricking US teens into joining them via social media like twitter and facebook.

    The other thing I'm irked about is watching the comradarie between the Russian, NASA, and ESA astronauts working on the ISS and all of the bro-ness between these people as they do work and experiments and EVAs and then I flip to CNN, FOX, take your pick one sided news agency, and its all rising tensions bullshit between USA and Russia again.

    If there is one thing that space exploration will do is be able to let me get off this rock and claim my own little piece of rock for myself.

    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
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    NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    Im not sure what Geth is snapping at...

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    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    so im sure you guys have heard about the comet landing and such. that's so fucking cool. like moon landing worthy of cool.

    what's not cool was that it was a 5minute blurb on HLN sandwiched between two 15minute blurbs of the rising tensions in ukraine and ISIS tricking US teens into joining them via social media like twitter and facebook.

    The other thing I'm irked about is watching the comradarie between the Russian, NASA, and ESA astronauts working on the ISS and all of the bro-ness between these people as they do work and experiments and EVAs and then I flip to CNN, FOX, take your pick one sided news agency, and its all rising tensions bullshit between USA and Russia again.

    If there is one thing that space exploration will do is be able to let me get off this rock and claim my own little piece of rock for myself.
    Yeah, like, if I live to see brain uploading
    I'm stealing a rocket and getting the heck out of here

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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    The thing about brain uploading is similar to cryogenics.

    Why would anyone upload your brain (or mine).

    Glance at any random person's twitter feed and tell me that there is any value in preserving the brain that spawned that.

    Likewise, why the hell would future humans want to thaw you (or me) out? Assuming that they have evolved ethically as well as in other respects, they are not going to wake you up just to dissect you or put you in a petting zoo, but they sure as hell don't want to hang out with you either, you unevolved 21st century barbarian.

    Its science fantasy.

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    The thing about brain uploading is similar to cryogenics.

    Why would anyone upload your brain (or mine).

    Glance at any random person's twitter feed and tell me that there is any value in preserving the brain that spawned that.

    Likewise, why the hell would future humans want to thaw you (or me) out? Assuming that they have evolved ethically as well as in other respects, they are not going to wake you up just to dissect you or put you in a petting zoo, but they sure as hell don't want to hang out with you either, you unevolved 21st century barbarian.

    Its science fantasy.

    Because despite the personality flaws a human brain is one hell of a computing tool.

    I mean.

    worst case scenario I suppose?

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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Oh wait, you're talking upload.

    I'm talking freaky upgrade brain floating in a jar.

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    NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    or hollow out your brain case and use you as a servo-droid

    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
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    Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited November 2014

    The thing about brain uploading is similar to cryogenics.

    Why would anyone upload your brain (or mine).

    Glance at any random person's twitter feed and tell me that there is any value in preserving the brain that spawned that.

    Likewise, why the hell would future humans want to thaw you (or me) out? Assuming that they have evolved ethically as well as in other respects, they are not going to wake you up just to dissect you or put you in a petting zoo, but they sure as hell don't want to hang out with you either, you unevolved 21st century barbarian.

    Its science fantasy.

    in the future, the after effects of a virus have left all men sterile so they thaw all the men out to repopulate the earth once all of the sperm banks run dry.

    clearly not science fantasy.

    Dunadan019 on
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    SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Oh wait, you're talking upload.

    I'm talking freaky upgrade brain floating in a jar.

    Why a jar?

    I mean, if I had my brain pulled out and crammed into something else, it might involve a jar, but that jar would be enclosed in something that would allow me to settle debates by throwing 18-wheelers at my opponents.

    5gsowHm.png
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    President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    The thing about brain uploading is similar to cryogenics.

    Why would anyone upload your brain (or mine).

    Glance at any random person's twitter feed and tell me that there is any value in preserving the brain that spawned that.

    Likewise, why the hell would future humans want to thaw you (or me) out? Assuming that they have evolved ethically as well as in other respects, they are not going to wake you up just to dissect you or put you in a petting zoo, but they sure as hell don't want to hang out with you either, you unevolved 21st century barbarian.

    Its science fantasy.

    Probably the same reason that if we had a peasant from the 1300s that we could resuscitate, we would be all over asking them questions. And probably causing insanity by exposing them to our hypermodern world.

    Of course, if we had like 10,000,000 frozen Medieval peasants sitting around, it's probably less likely the incentive to thaw them out would be there.

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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Who do you think we'd be shipping to Mars to brute force colonize it? 10,000,000 peasants are perfect for it.

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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    My brain is better than 99% of the population even taking into account a huge degree of dyslexia. There's uniqueness there that could be useful.

    I'd make a good AI like thing and I probably wouldn't go too crazy.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Awesomed for Geth recognition.

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    SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Wouldn't the more immediate issue be the constant bombardment of solar radiation?
    Yes and no. You've got lots of it, current surface levels look like nuclear reactor accidents, it's generally bad for you. Current levels don't include an atmosphere though, so they'll fall once you put that in place. Also, you did make a several month trip over there in a tin can at higher radiation levels, so presumably this is actually a solved problem. You might not get to wander around the surface in a t-shirt, but the radiation isn't going to be the thing that stops you from living on mars (it just stops you from going outside frequently).

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    yeah, but a tin can is easier to shield then a whole planet. you just fill the external hull with poop.

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I have a high IQ and have aspergers, I'd make a better crazy AI than any of you posers.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    As super-sciencey as terraforming mars would be. Yeah -- the 'real' problem is the solar wind would just scour anything we put there.

    Over a vastly longer time span than even terraforming, though. It just means your terraforming effort needs to be maintained, which is...no different than anything humans build. The Earth is a fairly hostile environment in a lot of ways, after all.

    The real problem with terraforming Mars is there's no point; if you have the technology necessary to put that much effort into another planet, you can just build an O'Neill cylinder.

    Really? I thought the terraforming Mars was akin to most astro-engineering challenges in that it's mostly down to persuading someone to give you an unreasonable number of nukes.
    Plus the methods being a lot cruder than maintaining a space colony, and the size of the planet making it a bit more stable once you've got it up and running.

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    perhaps I'm oversimplifying
    but a plan for making a place habitable that involves "persuading someone to give you an unreasonable number of nukes"
    prolly isn't the best plan

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but that Discovery Channel Infographic about terraforming Mars isn't saying it is $1.5 trillion to perform the project, that's just the last step. The entire process as laid out there is $3.9 trillion over 480 years. Certainly a thing that we could do at those numbers, but as a species we're kind of bad at long term thinking so it seems unlikely we would do it. It's much more likely that we make habitats out of asteroids or something else.

    Would be frickin' awesome though.

    steam_sig.png
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