Just finished season 2. Full season ramblings/spoilers all up ins:
I love how Franks empire really does feel like a house of cards. By the time he's president you're just waiting for something to shift and the whole thing to come crumbling down.
I disagree on the walker dislike. He seems like a pretty decent and believable president to me. They are constantly showing him taking charge of situations and delivering a final verdict even in the face of continued opposition. Plus, of all the people (besides Tusk obviously) that Frank has destroyed he seemed to be the best at catching on to Frank's bullshit. He ultimately fails to follow through on his insights (because in the end he never has real proof), but he generally seemed to understand exactly what was happening in any given situation. Even in the scenes where Frank was supposedly manipulating Walker into doing something that isn't in his own best interest, it seemed like walker have a perfect understanding of everything except Frank. Like the plans that Frank would suggest (and then pretend like he was unsure) would probably have worked if Frank hadn't turned around and sabotaged them.
It's funny because at the beginning of the season I liked walker. He was maybe to cozy with the money, but he seemed to generally want to do the best thing for the country, and he was open to discussion but ultimately decisive. By the end though he had become completely paranoid and was making rash decisions to fuck over everyone around him to save his own ass, and even though Frank is a terrible person you start to feel like he's a better option than paranoid dude launching a war to make sure his therapy doesn't become public or something.
Still kind of confused about how much of that was on purpose though. Some of the stuff seemed preplanned, like the whole marriage counseling, where Claire was planting ideas about infidelity with Christie and then personally suggested the therapist. But what ultimately took Walker down was Frank going public with the money laundering which he didn't even know about to begin with, and could not have been the original plan given how risky it was. Was the relationship stuff for plan A, in which they convince walker to just not run again because of marital problems? Or do the just default to fucking with people so that they can use it later?
Unrelated, but I loved the AA scene with Doug. Like the relationship with Rachael was so weird it was amazing to have him bring it to light. "I dunno, this shit's fucked up" indeed.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
I have to assume they're playing him. There's an idea that the Underwoods are personally very comfortable with what they do sexually (knowing about eachothers affairs and such) and the only reason they keep it to themselves is because of course it's political suicide to come out as swingers. But so much focus has been put on their growing relationship with Meechum I can't believe the pay-off ends with a single brief sexual encounter.
They've commented before on his general usefulness, lumping in his ability to carry heavy objects and fix exercise equipment with his ability to take a bullet. Frank has shown an interest in keeping Meechum close by since the start. When Meechum give Frank a gift, despite Frank being a known hater of birthdays and gifts, Frank is uncharacteristically grateful for the personal gesture.
They're purposefully fostering a close relationship with this guy. They want him to feel loyal to the Underwoods in a way that goes beyond the scope of his job. This is illustrated multiple times when he steps in and goes between his boss in the secret service and Underwood.
If I had to guess, I'd say within the next season they'll probably have him straight up murder someone. Or take the fall for something the underwoods have done.
I don't think they're 'playing' hIm in the sense that they already have a goal in mind. I think it's been more about cultivating him as an asset who might come in handy later. It's a subtle distinction, but one I'm fond of because it implies that even if the Underwoods don't have an immediate use for you in mind, they're still setting you up for a rainy day.
Yeah, that's the way Frank and Claire do business. For example, the marriage counseling thing with Walker. I doubt they had in mind exactly how they would use it, they would use it, they just new it would prove to be a useful ace-in-the-hole to have. Same with Meechem I'd bet. They are bringing him close and making him an asset not because there is some specific end goal planned for him, but because the figure they can get a favor out of him in the future. Let's not forget that Frank views 'power' and 'favors owed' as one in the same. In season one it's why he discounts Remy. Remy chose money over power; over influence. It's also the reason why in S1 Frank said he considered Tusk to be dangerous, because although Tusk had tons of money, he understood that true power lied in getting powerful people to owe him in some form or another.
Watched both seasons over the last few weeks. Full spoilers for my thoughts below.
It was certainly enjoyable to watch, but the more I think about it, the less I think I like it. My main gripe is that the Underwoods never seemed to run into any serious threats to their power, despite what the show so often wanted me to believe.
Claire betrays Frank and makes him lose the education bill vote? Not a problem, she comes back home at the end of the next episode and they patch it all up off screen.
Peter Russo escapes their custody and goes missing, potentially about to spill his knowledge of everything Frank put him up to? Nah, he'll quickly turn himself in and then get handed over without even a police record.
Frank kills Zoe and scare offs Janine and think his journalist problem is over, not realizing that there was a third one working with them that now has strong motivation to see him brought to justice? Don't worry, no news agency in the world is interested in a story about someone dying in a mysterious accident while investigating the VPOTUS for murder, and that third guy will turn out to be an idiot and make friends with a government snitch anyway.
And so on. I never felt like there was anyone or anything truly standing in Frank's way, even with the introduction of Tusk. And what it comes down to is that Frank is the only serious liar in the show (aside from Russo). There's a couple isolated incidents where people don't do what they say, but for the most part, everyone is entirely too open and honest, upfront about how they feel and what they want. Even the mole Tusk sneaks in immediately tells the Underwoods everything and offers to switch sides. As for Tusk himself, he tries to dig up dirt on Frank and bad mouths him to Walker, but he never tries to lie or manipulate him, settling for attacks that were always painfully straightforward.
What makes all that truly galling is that on the rare occasion someone does actually call Frank out for his bullshit, within five minutes they're back to trusting him completely. These people he's dealing with are supposed to be hardened politicians at the highest levels of power, not amnesiac children. The shows tries to paint Frank as a predator clawing his way up to the top against other predators, but by every indication he's a wolf surrounded by sheep.
I'll watch the show when it comes back, and I'll enjoy it, just like I enjoyed these two seasons. But honestly, if Frank doesn't find himself in some actual trouble next season, trouble that he can't just talk or luck his way out of, this won't be a show I'd feel comfortable recommending.
Cantide on
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jeffinvaKooglercoming this summerRegistered Userregular
Just finished season 2. Full season ramblings/spoilers all up ins:
I love how Franks empire really does feel like a house of cards. By the time he's president you're just waiting for something to shift and the whole thing to come crumbling down.
I disagree on the walker dislike. He seems like a pretty decent and believable president to me. They are constantly showing him taking charge of situations and delivering a final verdict even in the face of continued opposition. Plus, of all the people (besides Tusk obviously) that Frank has destroyed he seemed to be the best at catching on to Frank's bullshit. He ultimately fails to follow through on his insights (because in the end he never has real proof), but he generally seemed to understand exactly what was happening in any given situation. Even in the scenes where Frank was supposedly manipulating Walker into doing something that isn't in his own best interest, it seemed like walker have a perfect understanding of everything except Frank. Like the plans that Frank would suggest (and then pretend like he was unsure) would probably have worked if Frank hadn't turned around and sabotaged them.
I agree, you could see that he was no slouch, and was a master at navigating rough political waters in order to ascend all the way to the presidency. The take away, I think, is that he didn't have any true allies - no one like Doug who placed the interests of Frank above his own. Someone who would look out for him and fall on their sword for him. Everyone he surrounded himself with was trying to climb ladders themselves, and turned on him as soon as Frank applied pressure.
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jeffinvaKooglercoming this summerRegistered Userregular
Watched both seasons over the last few weeks. Full spoilers for my thoughts below.
It was certainly enjoyable to watch, but the more I think about it, the less I think I like it. My main gripe is that the Underwoods never seemed to run into any serious threats to their power, despite what the show so often wanted me to believe.
Claire betrays Frank and makes him lose the education bill vote? Not a problem, she comes back home at the end of the next episode and they patch it all up off screen.
Peter Russo escapes their custody and goes missing, potentially about to spill his knowledge of everything Frank put him up to? Nah, he'll quickly turn himself in and then get handed over without even a police record.
Frank kills Zoe and scare offs Janine and think his journalist problem is over, not realizing that there was a third one working with them that now has strong motivation to see him brought to justice? Don't worry, no news agency in the world is interested in a story about someone dying in a mysterious accident while investigating the VPOTUS for murder, and that third guy will turn out to be an idiot and make friends with a government snitch anyway.
And so on. I never felt like there was anyone or anything truly standing in Frank's way, even with the introduction of Tusk. And what it comes down to is that Frank is the only serious liar in the show (aside from Russo). There's a couple isolated incidents where people don't do what they say, but for the most part, everyone is entirely too open and honest, upfront about how they feel and what they want. Even the mole Tusk sneaks in immediately tells the Underwoods everything and offers to switch sides. As for Tusk himself, he tries to dig up dirt on Frank and bad mouths him to Walker, but he never tries to lie or manipulate him, settling for attacks that were always painfully straightforward.
What makes all that truly galling is that on the rare occasion someone does actually call Frank out for his bullshit, within five minutes they're back to trusting him completely. These people he's dealing with are supposed to be hardened politicians at the highest levels of power, not amnesiac children. The shows tries to paint Frank as a predator clawing his way up to the top against other predators, but by every indication he's a wolf surrounded by sheep.
I'll watch the show when it comes back, and I'll enjoy it, just like I enjoyed these two seasons. But honestly, if Frank doesn't find himself in some actual trouble next season, trouble that he can't just talk or luck his way out of, this won't be a show I'd feel comfortable recommending.
I think that's kind of the point, they keep skating by and acquiring power but it's all built upon a fragile foundation. There are many points of failure and if any one is broken the whole house of cards collapses. I think they could have added more tension, made this all more immediate, but I think I get what they were going for.
The impression I got from from the new democratic whip was that she's testing the strength of the Underwoods power pretty heartily - it seemed mighty significant that "I am not Frank Underwood" played well with just about everybody.
That said I agree with most of the criticism - there are a few too many people in this show who seem to exist just to get manipulated by the Underwoods. There's not nearly as many people as there normally would be who just say "look you can't trust a thing that asshole says".
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Having just finished season 2, I'm probably done with this show. It's far, far less than the sum of its parts, and although this season might have been technically better than the previous one, I don't think it actually added anything to what the first one was saying. It's a textbook bad sequel, repeating all of the moves (and most of the missteps) of the original (season 1, I mean, not the UK version) without actually innovating, expanding, or deepening. There's no fucking story here, just a plot. That's not enough to carry a show.
A violent, hypocritical antihero who makes ironic asides to the audience, whose show reveres him beyond all measure and only sets up other characters for the fun of watching him knock them down? This is just late-stage Dexter with more pomposity, and I'm ragequitting now before Underwood has a chance to go lumberjack.
Claire betrays Frank and makes him lose the education bill vote? Not a problem, she comes back home at the end of the next episode and they patch it all up off screen.
I really liked this particular plotline, as it illustrates both Claire's character and the mutual attachment/dependence of the Underwoods. When Frank puts his ambitions ahead of Claire's, she doesn't moan about it; she retaliates immediately. When she has made her point, she returns, because that's the rational thing to do (and pretty much the only possible option, from the Underwoods' perspective). But we also get to see a different side of her, a part of her that might choose a different life and isn't entirely dominated by ambition. To me that made her a lot more interesting.
I mostly agree with the rest of your criticisms though, yet I find myself eagerly waiting for season 3 so I guess I'll reserve judgement until the whole story has been told.
Having just finished season 2, I'm probably done with this show. It's far, far less than the sum of its parts, and although this season might have been technically better than the previous one, I don't think it actually added anything to what the first one was saying. It's a textbook bad sequel, repeating all of the moves (and most of the missteps) of the original (season 1, I mean, not the UK version) without actually innovating, expanding, or deepening. There's no fucking story here, just a plot. That's not enough to carry a show.
A violent, hypocritical antihero who makes ironic asides to the audience, whose show reveres him beyond all measure and only sets up other characters for the fun of watching him knock them down? This is just late-stage Dexter with more pomposity, and I'm ragequitting now before Underwood has a chance to go lumberjack.
Could you show me on the doll where Dexter touched you?
Just kidding. But seriously, this show is way higher quality than late-stage Dexter. This show favors its antihero, it is true, but Dexter twisted itself up in contrived knots trying to save Dex from each condemning situation.
Frank gets away with his antics because people are generally either fundamentally stupid and trusting, or corrupt, or both. Dexter gets away with his antics because the Devil favors his own (a phrase actually used in the series).
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
I really would just like the show to have an overall plan, but it doesn't seem to.
Other than "Frank becomes Lord of the Universe," of course. Every other ongoing plotline ends with one of two resolutions, either "This innocent person is destroyed as a result of Frank's machinations" or "Oh, uh, I guess we didn't mean to do that, never mind, murder murder drop drop forget forget this never happened."
I rather expected season two to be Frank's undoing, since a rise and fall make sense for the arc of a show the creators assumed would end after two seasons. Instead they just repeated what they'd done already, as if they asked Netflix for 26 episodes and then realized partway through that they didn't have enough material, leading to some Dexter-like stalling for time.
I don't particularly NEED Frank to go down, like some people have asked for; I just need some kind of meaningful turn in the story. I don't mind a tale in which people are either stupid, corrupt, or both, and evil wins out--I enjoy Game of Thrones, for instance--but the longer you repeat that basic message the more I go, "Uh, yeah, okay. Do you have anything else to say?" House of Cards seems out of things to say. No matter how slick the surface is, how talented the writers and directors and cast, that makes it a pretty worthless experience.
I watched Dexter all the way through, and even when the quality was abysmal, there was the hope that the conclusion of the show would revitalize them (it sort-of did, in season 7) and open up the possibility of new ideas and lasting consequences (this is the part they fucked up on, or weren't interested in). I don't see much hope for House of Cards. It's trotting the same ground already, and that's not a good sign; to mix some metaphors, I'm getting off this dead horse before the beatings continue.
While I'm sympathetic to the concerns I don't see how they could possibly NOT address them.
Frank's there, he's President. There is no more clawing to be done. Now he just has to keep his position and I really expect that is where this goes now. The precarious balance as he tries to stop everything falling apart. I just don't see how the story works if he doesn't at least slowly fail at it.
I actually agree with all of Astaereth's criticisms of the show, but I still enjoy the hell out of it in a "it just is what it is" type of way. Yes, it's an ultimately empty show (partly why is so good for binge watching I guess), but it's done with such, I dunno, bravado, that I can't help but like it.
Watching the UK trilogy after the first american season made things click more. Yes everyone is dumb, or killed off for becoming not-so-dumb, but that's what needs to happen to have this bad dude get (more) power. The title of the show implies some sort of fall (which happens, albeit in a kind of stupid fashion, in the UK version), and you can be sure that Netflix will deliver with the last season; Dexter perpetually propping up its protagonist this isn't.
It just would have been nice if season 1 wasn't so much... season 1. I can appreciate how they would have wanted things to start with a slow burn before everything becomes unapologetically theatrical, but House of Cards as Serious Political Drama was boooooorrrriinnnnggg.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
While I'm sympathetic to the concerns I don't see how they could possibly NOT address them.
Frank's there, he's President. There is no more clawing to be done. Now he just has to keep his position and I really expect that is where this goes now. The precarious balance as he tries to stop everything falling apart. I just don't see how the story works if he doesn't at least slowly fail at it.
Well, yeah. I don't see how the story works if he doesn't fail, either. I just don't think they're going to do that. If they had intended that to be the show's overall narrative, a rise and a fall, they would have done that in season 2, because at the time they thought that was all the series they'd ever have. (The show was ordered to 26 episodes, and the creators believed that, if nothing else, they'd be unable to secure the cast for more than that, particularly as Spacey and Wright have film careers they meant to return to.)
Instead, the fact that they just repeated the first season's "Frank crushes all opposition" plotline tells me that that's probably all they're interested in--or that they're afraid to pull the pin on the story's natural conclusions until there's a firm ending date, which amounts to the same thing. If anything, they have even more reason now to vamp for time in season 3, expecting to get a fourth season. This is EXACTLY what happened with Dexter, where from season 5 on the writers rehashed and wrote filler and basically stalled progress on any overall character growth or plotting. (Or, if you like, exactly what happened on How I Met Your Mother, another victim of its own over-elongated success.)
Moreover, if the show actually planned on having Frank brought down, it would have put more effort into sustaining a parallel plotline--while Frank rises to power, the people he's used and crushed uncover his dirty deeds and work together to bring him down. The show was building up this plotline heading into the season one conclusion, with Zoe and her reporter friends unraveling Frank's cover-ups, and had this plot continued to gain momentum throughout season 2, I would be more willing to believe the creators intended to pay it off properly by the end of the show. Instead, they threw that plot into a train, and then let it progress only in (mostly boring) dribs and drabs, the "this character will bring down Underwood" baton being passed to less and less likely/developed/interesting characters. Next season it's going to be the dead reporter's boyfriend's hacker's hamster leading the charge against a sitting president. I'm not holding my breath to see Underwood in cuffs.
While I'm sympathetic to the concerns I don't see how they could possibly NOT address them.
Frank's there, he's President. There is no more clawing to be done. Now he just has to keep his position and I really expect that is where this goes now. The precarious balance as he tries to stop everything falling apart. I just don't see how the story works if he doesn't at least slowly fail at it.
Well, yeah. I don't see how the story works if he doesn't fail, either. I just don't think they're going to do that. If they had intended that to be the show's overall narrative, a rise and a fall, they would have done that in season 2, because at the time they thought that was all the series they'd ever have. (The show was ordered to 26 episodes, and the creators believed that, if nothing else, they'd be unable to secure the cast for more than that, particularly as Spacey and Wright have film careers they meant to return to.)
Instead, the fact that they just repeated the first season's "Frank crushes all opposition" plotline tells me that that's probably all they're interested in--or that they're afraid to pull the pin on the story's natural conclusions until there's a firm ending date, which amounts to the same thing. If anything, they have even more reason now to vamp for time in season 3, expecting to get a fourth season. This is EXACTLY what happened with Dexter, where from season 5 on the writers rehashed and wrote filler and basically stalled progress on any overall character growth or plotting. (Or, if you like, exactly what happened on How I Met Your Mother, another victim of its own over-elongated success.)
Moreover, if the show actually planned on having Frank brought down, it would have put more effort into sustaining a parallel plotline--while Frank rises to power, the people he's used and crushed uncover his dirty deeds and work together to bring him down. The show was building up this plotline heading into the season one conclusion, with Zoe and her reporter friends unraveling Frank's cover-ups, and had this plot continued to gain momentum throughout season 2, I would be more willing to believe the creators intended to pay it off properly by the end of the show. Instead, they threw that plot into a train, and then let it progress only in (mostly boring) dribs and drabs, the "this character will bring down Underwood" baton being passed to less and less likely/developed/interesting characters. Next season it's going to be the dead reporter's boyfriend's hacker's hamster leading the charge against a sitting president. I'm not holding my breath to see Underwood in cuffs.
Alternatively, they knew they had a winner on their hands (whether because of confidence in their material or (more likely) a handshake agreement with Netflix), and would definitely have more time to finish their story.
The reporters were always a sideshow. Did ANYONE think that that silly bint would take down Frank Motherfucking Underwood? No, he goes down, he goes down BIG.
While I'm sympathetic to the concerns I don't see how they could possibly NOT address them.
Frank's there, he's President. There is no more clawing to be done. Now he just has to keep his position and I really expect that is where this goes now. The precarious balance as he tries to stop everything falling apart. I just don't see how the story works if he doesn't at least slowly fail at it.
Well, yeah. I don't see how the story works if he doesn't fail, either. I just don't think they're going to do that. If they had intended that to be the show's overall narrative, a rise and a fall, they would have done that in season 2, because at the time they thought that was all the series they'd ever have. (The show was ordered to 26 episodes, and the creators believed that, if nothing else, they'd be unable to secure the cast for more than that, particularly as Spacey and Wright have film careers they meant to return to.)
Instead, the fact that they just repeated the first season's "Frank crushes all opposition" plotline tells me that that's probably all they're interested in--or that they're afraid to pull the pin on the story's natural conclusions until there's a firm ending date, which amounts to the same thing. If anything, they have even more reason now to vamp for time in season 3, expecting to get a fourth season. This is EXACTLY what happened with Dexter, where from season 5 on the writers rehashed and wrote filler and basically stalled progress on any overall character growth or plotting. (Or, if you like, exactly what happened on How I Met Your Mother, another victim of its own over-elongated success.)
Moreover, if the show actually planned on having Frank brought down, it would have put more effort into sustaining a parallel plotline--while Frank rises to power, the people he's used and crushed uncover his dirty deeds and work together to bring him down. The show was building up this plotline heading into the season one conclusion, with Zoe and her reporter friends unraveling Frank's cover-ups, and had this plot continued to gain momentum throughout season 2, I would be more willing to believe the creators intended to pay it off properly by the end of the show. Instead, they threw that plot into a train, and then let it progress only in (mostly boring) dribs and drabs, the "this character will bring down Underwood" baton being passed to less and less likely/developed/interesting characters. Next season it's going to be the dead reporter's boyfriend's hacker's hamster leading the charge against a sitting president. I'm not holding my breath to see Underwood in cuffs.
If the series ended right now it would work. It'd be a bit unsubtle but it would work narratively. From what we've seen I have enough faith that they don't just string it out. Some of this is the previous writing, some of this is that I don't think Spacey will stand for it if he's not convinced shit it happening in the story.
Further you are ignoring that both the Sec State and minority whip are kinda pissed at Frank. The majority leader was never really happy with him. While the reporting story has cooled down we now have the actual witness on the loose and no longer with somebody hiding her. Then we have the body of Frank's Chief of Staff that is going to be found murdered in the woods. Add in the rich as fuck old coot who has previously had no problem buying elections (who may or may not be going to jail, though if he goes he no longer has any reason to protect Frank) and talk of the midterms which they seem likely to lose.
I think we have a bunch of things looming that are going to be considerable issues. I sorta expect him to manage well for at least half of next season but for things to get increasingly precarious as the season progress. If they go to 4 I expect that to be his crashing downfall with a bunch of extreme measures leading up to it.
If he just brushes by all that without further weakening his power base? Sure, we might be looking at a "Rita" moment but I don't think we're anywhere close yet.
While I'm sympathetic to the concerns I don't see how they could possibly NOT address them.
Frank's there, he's President. There is no more clawing to be done. Now he just has to keep his position and I really expect that is where this goes now. The precarious balance as he tries to stop everything falling apart. I just don't see how the story works if he doesn't at least slowly fail at it.
Well, yeah. I don't see how the story works if he doesn't fail, either. I just don't think they're going to do that. If they had intended that to be the show's overall narrative, a rise and a fall, they would have done that in season 2, because at the time they thought that was all the series they'd ever have. (The show was ordered to 26 episodes, and the creators believed that, if nothing else, they'd be unable to secure the cast for more than that, particularly as Spacey and Wright have film careers they meant to return to.)
Instead, the fact that they just repeated the first season's "Frank crushes all opposition" plotline tells me that that's probably all they're interested in--or that they're afraid to pull the pin on the story's natural conclusions until there's a firm ending date, which amounts to the same thing. If anything, they have even more reason now to vamp for time in season 3, expecting to get a fourth season. This is EXACTLY what happened with Dexter, where from season 5 on the writers rehashed and wrote filler and basically stalled progress on any overall character growth or plotting. (Or, if you like, exactly what happened on How I Met Your Mother, another victim of its own over-elongated success.)
Moreover, if the show actually planned on having Frank brought down, it would have put more effort into sustaining a parallel plotline--while Frank rises to power, the people he's used and crushed uncover his dirty deeds and work together to bring him down. The show was building up this plotline heading into the season one conclusion, with Zoe and her reporter friends unraveling Frank's cover-ups, and had this plot continued to gain momentum throughout season 2, I would be more willing to believe the creators intended to pay it off properly by the end of the show. Instead, they threw that plot into a train, and then let it progress only in (mostly boring) dribs and drabs, the "this character will bring down Underwood" baton being passed to less and less likely/developed/interesting characters. Next season it's going to be the dead reporter's boyfriend's hacker's hamster leading the charge against a sitting president. I'm not holding my breath to see Underwood in cuffs.
If the series ended right now it would work. It'd be a bit unsubtle but it would work narratively. From what we've seen I have enough faith that they don't just string it out. Some of this is the previous writing, some of this is that I don't think Spacey will stand for it if he's not convinced shit it happening in the story.
Further you are ignoring that both the Sec State and minority whip are kinda pissed at Frank. The majority leader was never really happy with him. While the reporting story has cooled down we now have the actual witness on the loose and no longer with somebody hiding her. Then we have the body of Frank's Chief of Staff that is going to be found murdered in the woods. Add in the rich as fuck old coot who has previously had no problem buying elections (who may or may not be going to jail, though if he goes he no longer has any reason to protect Frank) and talk of the midterms which they seem likely to lose.
I think we have a bunch of things looming that are going to be considerable issues. I sorta expect him to manage well for at least half of next season but for things to get increasingly precarious as the season progress. If they go to 4 I expect that to be his crashing downfall with a bunch of extreme measures leading up to it.
If he just brushes by all that without further weakening his power base? Sure, we might be looking at a "Rita" moment but I don't think we're anywhere close yet.
Pride goeth before destruction. Frank has far to go and very far to fall. If they stay true to the overarching UK plot then
I really would just like the show to have an overall plan, but it doesn't seem to.
Other than "Frank becomes Lord of the Universe," of course. Every other ongoing plotline ends with one of two resolutions, either "This innocent person is destroyed as a result of Frank's machinations" or "Oh, uh, I guess we didn't mean to do that, never mind, murder murder drop drop forget forget this never happened."
I rather expected season two to be Frank's undoing, since a rise and fall make sense for the arc of a show the creators assumed would end after two seasons. Instead they just repeated what they'd done already, as if they asked Netflix for 26 episodes and then realized partway through that they didn't have enough material, leading to some Dexter-like stalling for time.
I don't particularly NEED Frank to go down, like some people have asked for; I just need some kind of meaningful turn in the story. I don't mind a tale in which people are either stupid, corrupt, or both, and evil wins out--I enjoy Game of Thrones, for instance--but the longer you repeat that basic message the more I go, "Uh, yeah, okay. Do you have anything else to say?" House of Cards seems out of things to say. No matter how slick the surface is, how talented the writers and directors and cast, that makes it a pretty worthless experience.
I watched Dexter all the way through, and even when the quality was abysmal, there was the hope that the conclusion of the show would revitalize them (it sort-of did, in season 7) and open up the possibility of new ideas and lasting consequences (this is the part they fucked up on, or weren't interested in). I don't see much hope for House of Cards. It's trotting the same ground already, and that's not a good sign; to mix some metaphors, I'm getting off this dead horse before the beatings continue.
The show is definitely not the same as the British series, but so far it's more or less aping british FU's trajectory
and that trajectory is at odds with the one you think this show will have in season 3
I just started watching this show on Saturday. I watched the entire first season sans 2 episodes that day, and then I watched through the 6th episode in season 2 on Sunday.
I'm really getting strong Richard III vibes from this. I imagine that is what they intended, but I've been intentionally avoiding details on the show anywhere because I want to be surprised.
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zllehsHiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered Userregular
Finished season 2 last week.
I remember the first episode of season 2 when he doesn't talk the whole episode and at the end of the episode he says "Did you think I had forgotten you?... Perhaps you hoped I had." before looking at the camera.
I got so fucking excited that I popped up and leaned forward as if I was waiting on and feeding off of his every word like he was all I needed to survive.
So fast forward to the end of the final episode of season 2. He doesn't talk to us for like the final 25 minutes As everything he has been working so hard to accomplish is happening. Then he enters the Oval Office stands behind the desk, puts on his new ring, and places his hands ever so carefully on the table. Then he looks at us to acknowledge our existence. As the camera draws closer and closer I lean in more and more waiting; BEGGING for him so talk to me; to say something - ANYTHING.
Then with a look of determination he does his double ring bang on the President's desk HIS desk saying everything I needed to hear. "I'm back and better than ever"
Spectacular.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
So i just listened to this podcast where the guy who composed the score for the main title sequence describes his process and plays isolated tracks and such
Just one spoiler in there as to how season 1 ends, but otherwise it's all about the music and it's very interesting! For example, I didn't even realize that subtle changes to the title song were made between seasons 1 and 2
It's also not very long--about 15 minutes or so. I recommend this podcast in general.
There's no way they could be tying House of Cards into Call of Duty, right?
I mean, I know he plays it now and then in the show, at least in season 1.
Please don't make me have to be interested in Call of Duty! I don't think there's any doubt that House of Cards, and Spacey in particular, is the best thing I've ever seen on "television", but I'm not sure it's enough to make me take an interest in CoD.
EDIT: he's not doing the southern twang that Frank has, so I'm guessing it doesn't have any direct relation to House of Cards. Definitely looks like a GCI Spacey though, not the real one.
This show's arc makes much more sense when you parallel it with the UK one. Though with plenty of extra filler
Reading some of the S2 reactions, I'm actually curious how many people who are down on it have seen the UK one.
They're obviously not following it verbatim, and I'm sure they'd be happy to put it past the 3 series the UK one got, but; once you have a grip on why the title of the show is what it is, it makes a lot more sense.
All of those people that Frank (FU) steps on aren't necessarily the ones who suffer the most in the end.
UK spoiler
I eagerly await watching how Spacey handles acting out the paranoia of FU in Series 3, that's going to be incredible
You need to get on the Claire train, STAT. "Plucky" doesn't let you thrive in the House of Cards universe.
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PolarisI am powerless against the sky.Registered Userregular
Claire is an infinitely more interesting character than her equivalent in the UK series and the dynamic between the Underwoods is one of the most fascinating things about the show.
The show jumps ahead multiple times too. This isn't a series of events that take place inside a couple weeks.
I think that the series, to date, takes place over two years, does it not?
Something like that, if not a bit longer all told, so far. The British series jumps like a decade between series 2 and 3.
It's not a big deal, and if anything it's a decent recognition that hey, some days nothing happens; unlike every other drama where every fucking day is the end of the world.
Also, as stated, it's not a show about politics as much is it is a show about power, and politics just happen to be the chosen backdrop. They could set it in an elementary school with teachers and principals, and school boards, and it'd still work with the right actors/script.
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I disagree on the walker dislike. He seems like a pretty decent and believable president to me. They are constantly showing him taking charge of situations and delivering a final verdict even in the face of continued opposition. Plus, of all the people (besides Tusk obviously) that Frank has destroyed he seemed to be the best at catching on to Frank's bullshit. He ultimately fails to follow through on his insights (because in the end he never has real proof), but he generally seemed to understand exactly what was happening in any given situation. Even in the scenes where Frank was supposedly manipulating Walker into doing something that isn't in his own best interest, it seemed like walker have a perfect understanding of everything except Frank. Like the plans that Frank would suggest (and then pretend like he was unsure) would probably have worked if Frank hadn't turned around and sabotaged them.
It's funny because at the beginning of the season I liked walker. He was maybe to cozy with the money, but he seemed to generally want to do the best thing for the country, and he was open to discussion but ultimately decisive. By the end though he had become completely paranoid and was making rash decisions to fuck over everyone around him to save his own ass, and even though Frank is a terrible person you start to feel like he's a better option than paranoid dude launching a war to make sure his therapy doesn't become public or something.
Still kind of confused about how much of that was on purpose though. Some of the stuff seemed preplanned, like the whole marriage counseling, where Claire was planting ideas about infidelity with Christie and then personally suggested the therapist. But what ultimately took Walker down was Frank going public with the money laundering which he didn't even know about to begin with, and could not have been the original plan given how risky it was. Was the relationship stuff for plan A, in which they convince walker to just not run again because of marital problems? Or do the just default to fucking with people so that they can use it later?
Unrelated, but I loved the AA scene with Doug. Like the relationship with Rachael was so weird it was amazing to have him bring it to light. "I dunno, this shit's fucked up" indeed.
When he's talking to Claire after she back stabs him over the Watershed bill he seems very explicit that they have plans to some end besides power.
Hmm, that's interesting. I'll have to go rewatch S1 at some point. I remember interpreting that as him talking about the Vice Presidency.
Claire betrays Frank and makes him lose the education bill vote? Not a problem, she comes back home at the end of the next episode and they patch it all up off screen.
Peter Russo escapes their custody and goes missing, potentially about to spill his knowledge of everything Frank put him up to? Nah, he'll quickly turn himself in and then get handed over without even a police record.
Frank kills Zoe and scare offs Janine and think his journalist problem is over, not realizing that there was a third one working with them that now has strong motivation to see him brought to justice? Don't worry, no news agency in the world is interested in a story about someone dying in a mysterious accident while investigating the VPOTUS for murder, and that third guy will turn out to be an idiot and make friends with a government snitch anyway.
And so on. I never felt like there was anyone or anything truly standing in Frank's way, even with the introduction of Tusk. And what it comes down to is that Frank is the only serious liar in the show (aside from Russo). There's a couple isolated incidents where people don't do what they say, but for the most part, everyone is entirely too open and honest, upfront about how they feel and what they want. Even the mole Tusk sneaks in immediately tells the Underwoods everything and offers to switch sides. As for Tusk himself, he tries to dig up dirt on Frank and bad mouths him to Walker, but he never tries to lie or manipulate him, settling for attacks that were always painfully straightforward.
What makes all that truly galling is that on the rare occasion someone does actually call Frank out for his bullshit, within five minutes they're back to trusting him completely. These people he's dealing with are supposed to be hardened politicians at the highest levels of power, not amnesiac children. The shows tries to paint Frank as a predator clawing his way up to the top against other predators, but by every indication he's a wolf surrounded by sheep.
I'll watch the show when it comes back, and I'll enjoy it, just like I enjoyed these two seasons. But honestly, if Frank doesn't find himself in some actual trouble next season, trouble that he can't just talk or luck his way out of, this won't be a show I'd feel comfortable recommending.
That said I agree with most of the criticism - there are a few too many people in this show who seem to exist just to get manipulated by the Underwoods. There's not nearly as many people as there normally would be who just say "look you can't trust a thing that asshole says".
A violent, hypocritical antihero who makes ironic asides to the audience, whose show reveres him beyond all measure and only sets up other characters for the fun of watching him knock them down? This is just late-stage Dexter with more pomposity, and I'm ragequitting now before Underwood has a chance to go lumberjack.
I mostly agree with the rest of your criticisms though, yet I find myself eagerly waiting for season 3 so I guess I'll reserve judgement until the whole story has been told.
Could you show me on the doll where Dexter touched you?
Just kidding. But seriously, this show is way higher quality than late-stage Dexter. This show favors its antihero, it is true, but Dexter twisted itself up in contrived knots trying to save Dex from each condemning situation.
Frank gets away with his antics because people are generally either fundamentally stupid and trusting, or corrupt, or both. Dexter gets away with his antics because the Devil favors his own (a phrase actually used in the series).
I rather expected season two to be Frank's undoing, since a rise and fall make sense for the arc of a show the creators assumed would end after two seasons. Instead they just repeated what they'd done already, as if they asked Netflix for 26 episodes and then realized partway through that they didn't have enough material, leading to some Dexter-like stalling for time.
I don't particularly NEED Frank to go down, like some people have asked for; I just need some kind of meaningful turn in the story. I don't mind a tale in which people are either stupid, corrupt, or both, and evil wins out--I enjoy Game of Thrones, for instance--but the longer you repeat that basic message the more I go, "Uh, yeah, okay. Do you have anything else to say?" House of Cards seems out of things to say. No matter how slick the surface is, how talented the writers and directors and cast, that makes it a pretty worthless experience.
I watched Dexter all the way through, and even when the quality was abysmal, there was the hope that the conclusion of the show would revitalize them (it sort-of did, in season 7) and open up the possibility of new ideas and lasting consequences (this is the part they fucked up on, or weren't interested in). I don't see much hope for House of Cards. It's trotting the same ground already, and that's not a good sign; to mix some metaphors, I'm getting off this dead horse before the beatings continue.
It just would have been nice if season 1 wasn't so much... season 1. I can appreciate how they would have wanted things to start with a slow burn before everything becomes unapologetically theatrical, but House of Cards as Serious Political Drama was boooooorrrriinnnnggg.
Instead, the fact that they just repeated the first season's "Frank crushes all opposition" plotline tells me that that's probably all they're interested in--or that they're afraid to pull the pin on the story's natural conclusions until there's a firm ending date, which amounts to the same thing. If anything, they have even more reason now to vamp for time in season 3, expecting to get a fourth season. This is EXACTLY what happened with Dexter, where from season 5 on the writers rehashed and wrote filler and basically stalled progress on any overall character growth or plotting. (Or, if you like, exactly what happened on How I Met Your Mother, another victim of its own over-elongated success.)
Moreover, if the show actually planned on having Frank brought down, it would have put more effort into sustaining a parallel plotline--while Frank rises to power, the people he's used and crushed uncover his dirty deeds and work together to bring him down. The show was building up this plotline heading into the season one conclusion, with Zoe and her reporter friends unraveling Frank's cover-ups, and had this plot continued to gain momentum throughout season 2, I would be more willing to believe the creators intended to pay it off properly by the end of the show. Instead, they threw that plot into a train, and then let it progress only in (mostly boring) dribs and drabs, the "this character will bring down Underwood" baton being passed to less and less likely/developed/interesting characters. Next season it's going to be the dead reporter's boyfriend's hacker's hamster leading the charge against a sitting president. I'm not holding my breath to see Underwood in cuffs.
Alternatively, they knew they had a winner on their hands (whether because of confidence in their material or (more likely) a handshake agreement with Netflix), and would definitely have more time to finish their story.
Further you are ignoring that both the Sec State and minority whip are kinda pissed at Frank. The majority leader was never really happy with him. While the reporting story has cooled down we now have the actual witness on the loose and no longer with somebody hiding her. Then we have the body of Frank's Chief of Staff that is going to be found murdered in the woods. Add in the rich as fuck old coot who has previously had no problem buying elections (who may or may not be going to jail, though if he goes he no longer has any reason to protect Frank) and talk of the midterms which they seem likely to lose.
I think we have a bunch of things looming that are going to be considerable issues. I sorta expect him to manage well for at least half of next season but for things to get increasingly precarious as the season progress. If they go to 4 I expect that to be his crashing downfall with a bunch of extreme measures leading up to it.
If he just brushes by all that without further weakening his power base? Sure, we might be looking at a "Rita" moment but I don't think we're anywhere close yet.
Pride goeth before destruction. Frank has far to go and very far to fall. If they stay true to the overarching UK plot then
The show is definitely not the same as the British series, but so far it's more or less aping british FU's trajectory
and that trajectory is at odds with the one you think this show will have in season 3
I'm really getting strong Richard III vibes from this. I imagine that is what they intended, but I've been intentionally avoiding details on the show anywhere because I want to be surprised.
I got so fucking excited that I popped up and leaned forward as if I was waiting on and feeding off of his every word like he was all I needed to survive.
So fast forward to the end of the final episode of season 2. He doesn't talk to us for like the final 25 minutes As everything he has been working so hard to accomplish is happening. Then he enters the Oval Office stands behind the desk, puts on his new ring, and places his hands ever so carefully on the table. Then he looks at us to acknowledge our existence. As the camera draws closer and closer I lean in more and more waiting; BEGGING for him so talk to me; to say something - ANYTHING.
Then with a look of determination he does his double ring bang on the President's desk HIS desk saying everything I needed to hear. "I'm back and better than ever"
Spectacular.
http://www.maximumfun.org/song-exploder/song-exploder-№-7-jeff-beal
Just one spoiler in there as to how season 1 ends, but otherwise it's all about the music and it's very interesting! For example, I didn't even realize that subtle changes to the title song were made between seasons 1 and 2
It's also not very long--about 15 minutes or so. I recommend this podcast in general.
NNID: Hakkekage
There's no way they could be tying House of Cards into Call of Duty, right?
I mean, I know he plays it now and then in the show, at least in season 1.
Please don't make me have to be interested in Call of Duty! I don't think there's any doubt that House of Cards, and Spacey in particular, is the best thing I've ever seen on "television", but I'm not sure it's enough to make me take an interest in CoD.
EDIT: he's not doing the southern twang that Frank has, so I'm guessing it doesn't have any direct relation to House of Cards. Definitely looks like a GCI Spacey though, not the real one.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Reading some of the S2 reactions, I'm actually curious how many people who are down on it have seen the UK one.
They're obviously not following it verbatim, and I'm sure they'd be happy to put it past the 3 series the UK one got, but; once you have a grip on why the title of the show is what it is, it makes a lot more sense.
UK spoiler
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Also, it's just a fun show.
I'm going to like Zoey.
Edit: Actually, no. Episode 3 seems to have changed that.
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Thank god, there's hope for all of us.
Seriously.
And then she turned into...like a worse version of Maggie from The Newsroom.
Episode 5: Now they're intentionally making her unlikable.
I thought West Wing had won the Implausibility Award with Bartlett nominating two Supreme Court justices.
Does House of Cards just stop trying to be at all realistic / believable? This shit is just plain sloppy.
It's a drama whose setting happens to be Washington, instead of, say, feudal Scotland or England.
I think that the series, to date, takes place over two years, does it not?
Something like that, if not a bit longer all told, so far. The British series jumps like a decade between series 2 and 3.
It's not a big deal, and if anything it's a decent recognition that hey, some days nothing happens; unlike every other drama where every fucking day is the end of the world.
Also, as stated, it's not a show about politics as much is it is a show about power, and politics just happen to be the chosen backdrop. They could set it in an elementary school with teachers and principals, and school boards, and it'd still work with the right actors/script.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand