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Sid Meier's: Civilization Beyond Earth

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Beefers wrote: »
    There is a quality product somewhere in there, just not the product most people wanted.

    Or the product that was advertised apparently.

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    ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    something something crystal ball something something called that one

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    I think most people were expecting this to be a Civ 5 reskin in space.

    I doubt many could've predicted it'd be such a stripped down and clunky version of Civ 5 on top of that.

    That said, we've since been informed that the designers working on BE were basically their C team, with their A and B teams working on Civ 6 and X Com 2.

    So there's that.

    Glyph on
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Just to clarify, BE was never a $60 game. At release it was $40 MSRP, and frankly you could get it for like $32 via release day deals. Like, it's not a huge thing in its favor, but its definitely a mitigating factor in terms of the expectations people placed on it.

    Frankly, I think they should've just bit the bullet and spent another year or two on the game, knowing that they were saddled with the high expectations of Alpha Centauri, rather than going in the complete opposite direction and trying to call it a "spiritual successor" while downplaying expectations as much as possible. If they weren't going to try to do it justice, they should have left Alpha Centauri out of it completely, instead of using the name of the brand to hype the game and then having everyone frustrated at how shallow its "successor" turned out.

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    theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Actually in Australia they charged $80.

    Fuck that.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Just to clarify, BE was never a $60 game. At release it was $40 MSRP, and frankly you could get it for like $32 via release day deals. Like, it's not a huge thing in its favor, but its definitely a mitigating factor in terms of the expectations people placed on it.

    Frankly, I think they should've just bit the bullet and spent another year or two on the game, knowing that they were saddled with the high expectations of Alpha Centauri, rather than going in the complete opposite direction and trying to call it a "spiritual successor" while downplaying expectations as much as possible. If they weren't going to try to do it justice, they should have left Alpha Centauri out of it completely, instead of using the name of the brand to hype the game and then having everyone frustrated at how shallow its "successor" turned out.

    They're clearly following a different business model from years past. That is to say, working on a product and instead of releasing it after years of work and beta tests, releasing what they've done so far to the public so they can have more time to add and tweak it out, while also getting real-time feedback and revenue in the process.

    As I said, it's essentially a paid beta run and depending on who you ask, it could even be considered generous on their part if you really stretch the logic. The product takes longer to meet its potential but the rewards can potentially be more rewarding.

    And no, this isn't me being paranoid or cynical - the lead designers have already come out and said the game shouldn't be considered "complete" until it has all of its expansions (presumably at least two per game), that the product model they're following involves improvement and fine-tuning with each expansion, rather than merely expanding content.

    So yeah, as paying customers and players, it's not only our right to say what we think needs to be added and improved upon, it's our responsibility.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    theSquid wrote: »
    Actually in Australia they charged $80.

    Fuck that.

    Everything in Australia is more expensive because you have to protect shipments from all those drop bears.

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I keep popping in here thinking there'd be like

    Actual news or something :(

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    There should be but every time an interview asks the devs a remotely interesting question, they invariably respond with "We can't talk about that yet."

    Thanks Obama.

    Glyph on
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    skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    They really should've had the tile sets come with unique aliens, and you don't know which you get until you hit planetside.

    Tycho wrote:
    [skyknyt's writing] is like come kind of code that, when comprehended, unfolds into madness in the mind of the reader.
    PSN: skyknyt, Steam: skyknyt, Blizz: skyknyt#1160
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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Yeah, that would have been rad. Also random alien attributes - aggressive, passive, helpful, silicon, plant-based, etc.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Just to clarify, BE was never a $60 game. At release it was $40 MSRP, and frankly you could get it for like $32 via release day deals. Like, it's not a huge thing in its favor, but its definitely a mitigating factor in terms of the expectations people placed on it.

    Frankly, I think they should've just bit the bullet and spent another year or two on the game, knowing that they were saddled with the high expectations of Alpha Centauri, rather than going in the complete opposite direction and trying to call it a "spiritual successor" while downplaying expectations as much as possible. If they weren't going to try to do it justice, they should have left Alpha Centauri out of it completely, instead of using the name of the brand to hype the game and then having everyone frustrated at how shallow its "successor" turned out.

    They're clearly following a different business model from years past. That is to say, working on a product and instead of releasing it after years of work and beta tests, releasing what they've done so far to the public so they can have more time to add and tweak it out, while also getting real-time feedback and revenue in the process.

    As I said, it's essentially a paid beta run and depending on who you ask, it could even be considered generous on their part if you really stretch the logic. The product takes longer to meet its potential but the rewards can potentially be more rewarding.

    And no, this isn't me being paranoid or cynical - the lead designers have already come out and said the game shouldn't be considered "complete" until it has all of its expansions (presumably at least two per game), that the product model they're following involves improvement and fine-tuning with each expansion, rather than merely expanding content.

    So yeah, as paying customers and players, it's not only our right to say what we think needs to be added and improved upon, it's our responsibility.

    Civ 5 vanilla was also pretty damn broken at the start from a powerspike/dominant strategy perspective too.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Civ 4 wasn't though. It was very playable with loads of features. This seems like something recently they started doing the more they worked with 2k Games.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Civ 4 wasn't though. It was very playable with loads of features. This seems like something recently they started doing the more they worked with 2k Games.

    Civ 5 was a big shake up in a lot of ways though. It did lead somewhere good that you could sorta see the bones of in vanilla.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Glyph wrote: »
    Civ 4 wasn't though. It was very playable with loads of features. This seems like something recently they started doing the more they worked with 2k Games.

    Civ 5 was a big shake up in a lot of ways though. It did lead somewhere good that you could sorta see the bones of in vanilla.

    Yeah, to be fair with the 4->5 discrepancy, making the jump to 1UPT was a pretty big one that would have easily screwed with a lot of systems and required shaking out.

    Docshifty on
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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    Until you completely reshape an island into strategic resources in this game, you don't really know what the "fun" part of it is. My biggest beef with Civ: BE is the amount of beakers necessary for branch techs. Getting to the cool satellites that generate strategic resources comes so late in the game that you don't really get to make use of the strategic resources they develop! And that's one of the things in the game I enjoy the most!

    I have high hopes for the expansion, really. Anything that has low to moderate cost for a lot of gameplay time is something I get excited about.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    I keep popping in here thinking there'd be like

    Actual news or something :(

    Here. This is the best you're going to get for a while.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBjKGPKqiMM

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    The move function of aquatic cities.

    ixxFtwa.jpg

    W43Jw2j.jpg

    sTClroC.jpg

    J5O8Jpc.jpg

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    Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Ooh, nice. Yeah, I found BE to be a little disappointing for a Firaxis game, but "disappointing for Firaxis" still works out as pretty decent overall. I keep coming back to it for the music, mostly. Its so good. We could probably incorporate the soundtrack into some sort of turing test, because if these don't make you feel feelings you might be a robot:

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Some information on the new diplomacy system.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyKdnKvCWnQ

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Apparently SMAC wasn't a Civilization game. :(. That seems an odd claim to throw in a promotional video. I like the agreements and moving city ideas.

    Caedwyr on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Frigid biome almost looks aquatic.

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    NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    Apparently SMAC wasn't a Civilization game. :(. That seems an odd claim to throw in a promotional video.

    wasn't it very specifically not a Civilization game for legal reasons?

    it's still a pretty weird thing to say now, though, although tbh I don't know what the legal status of Alpha Centauri is currently

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Neveron wrote: »
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    Apparently SMAC wasn't a Civilization game. :(. That seems an odd claim to throw in a promotional video.

    wasn't it very specifically not a Civilization game for legal reasons?

    it's still a pretty weird thing to say now, though, although tbh I don't know what the legal status of Alpha Centauri is currently

    The rights belong to the publisher, which in the case of SMAC is still EA.

    And god help us all if they ever decide to make SMAC 2 without Firaxis.

    Glyph on
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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I don't think Firaxis owns the rights to the game. It went up on GoG as part of a batch of EA games. Still, it's a weird thing to say, especially when Beyond Earth was touted as a spiritual successor of SMAC back before it came out.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Doubt anyone would care unless Brian Reynolds was involved. Even then, SMAC has more "cult" status than actual brand cachet. I doubt EA will ever make one, given they are no longer in the business of publishing those kinds of games.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    I don't think Firaxis owns the rights to the game. It went up on GoG as part of a batch of EA games. Still, it's a weird thing to say, especially when Beyond Earth was touted as a spiritual successor of SMAC back before it came out.

    They're definitely distancing themselves from that comment now that the heat is on from producing such a subpar game by standard Civ expectations, let alone SMAC.

    That said, let's hope they get it right this time. More gameplay vids:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHhaWEL92g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JEm5V_M4Gw

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Brief glimpse hybrid affinity units.

    R3dCCwh.jpg

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    MegamaniacoMegamaniaco Madrid, Spain (again!)Registered User regular
    I'll just wait until it costs like 8€. There is no way I'm paying Firaxis all that money after my Day 1 purchase of Civ:BE and my total, total disappointment with it.

    Steam ID: Megamaniaco // LoL summoner: Corcorigan (NA), Megamaniaco (EUW) // Hearthstone: Megamaniaco.2120

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Alpha Centauri wasn't a 'Civilization' game (even though it obviously was) because at that time the rights to the Civ brand had been acquired by Activision and Meier et al had left to form Firaxis. So they had to call it something different, and Civ3 (which imo was actually kinda underrated) was released by a different team, although iirc they had some of the original microprose devs

    later on Take Two acquired the rights to the brand and eventually acquired firaxis itself

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Civ 3 was Firaxis. Call to Power was not.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    I'll just wait until it costs like 8€. There is no way I'm paying Firaxis all that money after my Day 1 purchase of Civ:BE and my total, total disappointment with it.
    While a thrifty use of your money and a good way to dramatically decrease the cost of the pc gaming hobby if one is willing to lag behind the release schedule, this is pretty much par for the course for civ games.

    New game releases and is OK but not amazing, expansion packs incrementally add more and more to the game until it is very deep and amazing, then the new one comes out and feels lackluster compared to the pinnacle of its predecessor.

    3DS Friend Code:
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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Alpha Centauri wasn't a 'Civilization' game (even though it obviously was) because at that time the rights to the Civ brand had been acquired by Activision and Meier et al had left to form Firaxis. So they had to call it something different, and Civ3 (which imo was actually kinda underrated) was released by a different team, although iirc they had some of the original microprose devs

    later on Take Two acquired the rights to the brand and eventually acquired firaxis itself

    I mean, it's technically true as you've outlined above. I just thought it was a bit odd after the game was talked up as being the spiritual successor of SMAC.

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    yeah I mean, I agree that BE wasn't great (especially since Civ5/BNW is right there and has better mechanics), but releasing a pretty limited game and then iterating via expansion pack is pretty much par for the course.

    that being said I'll definitely wait a month or two for the in-depth reviews of any new mechanics to come out

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    I'll just wait until it costs like 8€. There is no way I'm paying Firaxis all that money after my Day 1 purchase of Civ:BE and my total, total disappointment with it.
    While a thrifty use of your money and a good way to dramatically decrease the cost of the pc gaming hobby if one is willing to lag behind the release schedule, this is pretty much par for the course for civ games.

    New game releases and is OK but not amazing, expansion packs incrementally add more and more to the game until it is very deep and amazing, then the new one comes out and feels lackluster compared to the pinnacle of its predecessor.

    Everyone says this, and I'm sure I'm looking through rose colored glasses some, but I have played the shit out of Civ5 since release and through all the expansions, and never really been unhappy with it. I was sad to see no religion initially, and the loss of cultural tile wars, but I had fun. Maybe I was willing to cut them more slack due to the massive change to hex + 1UPT, but I remember playing a fun game with plenty of replayability. BE was fun for a handful of games and then oops, I've played every map and the leaders are all basically the same with a lackluster tech tree and a useless orbital layer (until very late game IMO). I don't even recall 4 being that bad out of the gate (although I confess I can hardly remember 4 anymore).

    96058.png?1619393207
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Part of the reason BE let people down is because of the tremendous hype engine leading up to the release as everyone talked about how SMAC was the best thing ever and how BE was going to be the mythical SMAC2 that would blow your mind away, entrance you into clicking one-more turn for eternity, and turn water into wine.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
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    NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    Alpha Centauri wasn't a 'Civilization' game (even though it obviously was) because at that time the rights to the Civ brand had been acquired by Activision and Meier et al had left to form Firaxis. So they had to call it something different, and Civ3 (which imo was actually kinda underrated) was released by a different team, although iirc they had some of the original microprose devs

    later on Take Two acquired the rights to the brand and eventually acquired firaxis itself

    I mean, it's technically true as you've outlined above. I just thought it was a bit odd after the game was talked up as being the spiritual successor of SMAC.

    did Firaxis ever do that, though? all the interviews I saw were all about how "this is not Alpha Centauri 2" and whatnot

    it's kind of like they were trying to deflate some of the overhype before release, so that people would be judging it on its own merits rather than comparing it to SMAC and seeing how it falls behind

    if so they failed completely, obv

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Bullhead wrote: »
    I don't even recall 4 being that bad out of the gate (although I confess I can hardly remember 4 anymore).

    I do and you're right, Civ 4 is very playable even without the expansions. Civ 5 vanilla was kind of bare especially in the mid-to-late game, but they were working with an entirely new engine while introducing new combat mechanics and hexes so its forgivable. Civ BE used Civ 5's engine though, there was really no reason for it to be so unrefined and watered down. A few bugs and rough edges here and there but not stations that didn't do anything and a planet devoid of any real sense of discovery or variety across the biomes.

    At some point you have to wonder what they were thinking.

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    ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    Part of the reason BE let people down is because of the tremendous hype engine leading up to the release as everyone talked about how SMAC was the best thing ever and how BE was going to be the mythical SMAC2 that would blow your mind away, entrance you into clicking one-more turn for eternity, and turn water into wine.

    Some people felt that way. Those of us that checked our expectations got civ 5 in space and it is p good.

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