Also a bunch of engineering work is currently set on a path thus that trying to slow it down by making the working conditions better would result in engineering firms getting 100% shut out. Like if my wife's firm unionized it wouldn't change the deadlines on their current contracts (which is what builds the fucked up engineering workloads), and if they tried to insist on union protections in future contracts they'd probably lose every contract bid because the way private contract bids are awarded is pretty corrupt. Like the whole objectivist rich assholes thing is totally correct. However there's also a whole bunch of logistical issues in there as well that makes unionizing engineering difficult. We'd have to do some pretty deep "change how literally everything works" type of shit to get engineers in unions.
There's also a whole lot that's wrapped up in the P.E. stamp. If you're talking anything having to do with drawings, buildings, and codes, you got to have that certification from your state. Without it, you're just a human calculator that quickly becoming replaced by better and faster software. Which means there is a literal divide between those who have a degree and those who are allowed to do things. This really puts a line between folks inside those departments.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing
I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?
Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing
I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?
Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
I think the person who posted that was lamenting that because they were an engineer, they'd never see a contract like that for their workplace.
Engineers are held in some amount of esteem for the job they do in my experience. It's just that some really smart people who should know better often prove that certain sectors are fucking moronic versions of exceptionalism. "Engineers" and "Tech" are often at the top of the example list.
I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing
I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?
Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
i, an engineer, posted that line. i would like to be in a union as it would allow us to negotiate such amazing contracts. i'm not saying engineers are behind the downfall of society, just that we are the engineers (he he) of our own bad workers rights because engineers on the whole hate hate hate hate hate unions. my post is 100% from a place of jealousy.
I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing
I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?
Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
I think the person who posted that was lamenting that because they were an engineer, they'd never see a contract like that for their workplace.
Engineers are held in some amount of esteem for the job they do in my experience. It's just that some really smart people who should know better often prove that certain sectors are fucking moronic versions of exceptionalism. "Engineers" and "Tech" are often at the top of the example list.
I don't think it was a dig at anyone.
This. Do you get a minimum 11 weeks paid if you were let go? Paid 16 weeks of leave if you have a child? 10 days of bereavement leave before hitting any other PTO?
Beyond the fact that those should be bare minimums for everyone according to the law, I wonder how many engineering firms have similar benefits.
Edit: And out of those firms that don't have those benefits as standard for all employees (my guess, all of them) how many engineers on their own have negotiated for similar benefits? (my guess, none of them)
I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing
I don't understand the connection, why are we talking about engineers in regards to a union contract for Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America?
Lots of us work in some flavor of engineering and wish we could get such union support. Unfortunately there's a bunch of shit that currently makes it impossible to do so.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
I think the person who posted that was lamenting that because they were an engineer, they'd never see a contract like that for their workplace.
Engineers are held in some amount of esteem for the job they do in my experience. It's just that some really smart people who should know better often prove that certain sectors are fucking moronic versions of exceptionalism. "Engineers" and "Tech" are often at the top of the example list.
I don't think it was a dig at anyone.
This. Do you get a minimum 11 weeks paid if you were let go? Paid 16 weeks of leave if you have a child? 10 days of bereavement leave before hitting any other PTO?
Beyond the fact that those should be bare minimums for everyone according to the law, I wonder how many engineering firms have similar benefits.
Edit: And out of those firms that don't have those benefits as standard for all employees (my guess, all of them) how many engineers on their own have negotiated for similar benefits? (my guess, none of them)
Based on my experience with plant layoffs, the mega-corporation I work for offers salary employees:
1) 1 week of severance pay per year worked for the company, which for me would be 13 years.
2) 12 weeks for both maternal and paternal leave, usable within 1 year of the birth date (or adoption date) of the child.
3) 10 days for in-laws, 12 days for direct blood relations.
Although in all fairness, these weren't as generous until they acquired another large business and merged our business unit with that one. And a lot of the "generosity" of the benefits is because it's cheaper to offer those than it is more competitive salary.
In all honestly, while I would fully support unionization of our engineering and other non-leadership salary employees, I'm too much of a coward to try and start up such an effort on my own. This company is VERY anti-union, to the point that they spent over $100M USD to close 2 union facilities and combine them into a single non-union shop.
That sounds awful, but unsurprising given how anti-competitive and anti-union tech has been. I work in the oil and gas industry (also power generation).
@knight_ When you mentioned engineers, did you specifically mean software engineers?
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Those are really good benefits if you're US based.
I work in software development.
No severance for being laid off
If you are a woman who gave birth, you get to use 4 weeks of short term disability. The rest of your time off can use your vacation time, and when that runs out, unpaid leave. Up till 12 weeks. No Paternal leave
3 days of bereavement for direct family (siblings/parents). 1 for non-direct family.
Actual line: "We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral, either."
That would make you anti-union, Skippy.
What in the actual fuck. Our business model is based on the core values of:
1) Speed
2) Innovation
3) Customer Obsession
This sounds like the core values for a drug running business. Jesus christ, Amazon.
Warning signs include the use of words like "Living Wage" or "Grievance" or "Contract". But trust us, this is totally better for you, the associate. Warning signs also include "interest in policies and benefits."
Actual line: "We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral, either."
That would make you anti-union, Skippy.
What in the actual fuck. Our business model is based on the core values of:
1) Speed
2) Innovation
3) Customer Obsession
This sounds like the core values for a drug running business. Jesus christ, Amazon.
I don't think there's much wrong with those values. It's the implementation
ob·ses·sion /əbˈseSHən/
noun
the state of being obsessed with someone or something.
"she cared for him with a devotion bordering on obsession"
an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person's mind.
"he was in the grip of an obsession he was powerless to resist"
'Customer Obsession' has always been one of Amazon's principals.
Note that it's not "make our customers obsessed", it's "be obsessed with our customers". As opposed to like, being obsessed with your profits, or your shareholders.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
'Customer Obsession' has always been one of Amazon's principals.
Note that it's not "make our customers obsessed", it's "be obsessed with our customers". As opposed to like, being obsessed with your profits, or your shareholders.
That puts a different light on that Alexa spying people thing.
People who have good benefits without a union can have them taken away at any time.
Vanderbilt hospital cancelled my pay raises and took a week of vacation or more from every employee. They also merged sick time and vacation time into PTO, added in holidays and reduced the total number of hours you could bank by 40%. They could force flex you off without pay or assign you call without notice.
States without unions are worse states to live in. It doesn't matter which industry.
Edit: I was raised in California so I basically told them to fuck off and gave my notice on the spot. Moved back home and am doing much better at a different employer with a strong union.
dispatch.o on
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
So, the video is bad. But it's also no worse than the video I was forced to watch at Shaw's. I believe I had to watch one at Best Buy as well.
That doesn't make it ok! But it's simply par for the course.
Amazon isn't obsessed with it's customers, it's obsessed with money
Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Amazon isn't obsessed with it's customers, it's obsessed with money
Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
As a note, most other countries do not have our problems with student loan debt, because they actually regulate their banks.
Amazon isn't obsessed with it's customers, it's obsessed with money
Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
As a note, most other countries do not have our problems with student loan debt, because they actually regulate their banks.
and make sure university is accessible
Oh for sure.
I couldn't find a reliable number for actual worldwide student loan debt but full disclosure considering the US alone is over 400 years of his annual income I didn't do a very deep dive.
Amazon isn't obsessed with it's customers, it's obsessed with money
Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
You're overthinking this. Bezo's makes the yearly median income of a US citizen in less than a minute and yet is still terrified of having unions that would protect his employees instead of his bottom line.
Amazon isn't obsessed with it's customers, it's obsessed with money
Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
You're overthinking this. Bezo's makes the yearly median income of a US citizen in less than a minute and yet is still terrified of having unions that would protect his employees instead of his bottom line.
No, not so much.
That video is terrible to the point where it almost came across as parody and I'm very much pro-union. I work for a company that makes around 20 billion in profit each year and sends out quarterly "God job!" emails about that and after doing some math I'm incredibly annoyed that they could give literally everyone in the company from the janitors to the CEO a 20k/year raise and still make 16+ billion in profit every year. And we haven't had a cost of living increase in almost a decade. I fucking wish we had a union.
I guess I thought I made this clear but maybe not. I'm not in any way defending Bezos' income. His income is utterly ridiculous and literally no one should have that kind of income or the power that comes with it. Ever.
But making things up about it is, well, making things up about it. So when presented with bullshit? I'm going to call bullshit.
You need to accept that people can be hyperbolic in these discussions. If the hyperbole is overblowing a point, call people on it. But when you go through a detailed line-by-line analysis of the math of the hyperbole, you come across as defending the position by showing that the person being hyperbolic is getting basic facts wrong.
Your need to be technically correct is overriding your beliefs about unions, and it says something about your priorities.
You need to accept that people can be hyperbolic in these discussions. If the hyperbole is overblowing a point, call people on it. But when you go through a detailed line-by-line analysis of the math of the hyperbole, you come across as defending the position by showing that the person being hyperbolic is getting basic facts wrong.
Your need to be technically correct is overriding your beliefs about unions, and it says something about your priorities.
No, I actually don't. Especially when someone is getting basic facts wrong. It took less than a minute of google and a calculator to confirm that those statements were bullshit.
Frankly "gawd it's just hyperbole" gets basically no fucking tolerance from me these days. I wholly believe that too many overly vocal people being unable or refusing to reign in their rhetorical bullshit is a big part of the problems we're currently facing.
I don't have a need to be technically correct. I have a desire for people on my side not to be full of shit.
People who have good benefits without a union can have them taken away at any time.
Vanderbilt hospital cancelled my pay raises and took a week of vacation or more from every employee. They also merged sick time and vacation time into PTO, added in holidays and reduced the total number of hours you could bank by 40%. They could force flex you off without pay or assign you call without notice.
States without unions are worse states to live in. It doesn't matter which industry.
Edit: I was raised in California so I basically told them to fuck off and gave my notice on the spot. Moved back home and am doing much better at a different employer with a strong union.
The workers at a VW plant here in Chattanooga just voted to not unionize with the UAW.
VW was perfectly fine with it and didn't care either way.
But Tennessee Republicans. Oh my god. There have been nothing but anti-union propaganda spots on TV for the past month.
Did you know that
Its the Unions fault when any plant closes.
Unions take peoples jobs away and get people laid off.
Unions just want to steal your money from you and leave you with nothing.
Chattanooga doesn't need a Union because "we're proud of our community" and we don't need "greedy outsiders" trying to force their way in.
One spot literally had an announcer say in an ominous tone "The UAW is in it for itself, not the workers."
You need to accept that people can be hyperbolic in these discussions. If the hyperbole is overblowing a point, call people on it. But when you go through a detailed line-by-line analysis of the math of the hyperbole, you come across as defending the position by showing that the person being hyperbolic is getting basic facts wrong.
Your need to be technically correct is overriding your beliefs about unions, and it says something about your priorities.
I don't like "truthiness" in the right, and i don't like it in the left either.
People who have good benefits without a union can have them taken away at any time.
Vanderbilt hospital cancelled my pay raises and took a week of vacation or more from every employee. They also merged sick time and vacation time into PTO, added in holidays and reduced the total number of hours you could bank by 40%. They could force flex you off without pay or assign you call without notice.
States without unions are worse states to live in. It doesn't matter which industry.
Edit: I was raised in California so I basically told them to fuck off and gave my notice on the spot. Moved back home and am doing much better at a different employer with a strong union.
The workers at a VW plant here in Chattanooga just voted to not unionize with the UAW.
VW was perfectly fine with it and didn't care either way.
But Tennessee Republicans. Oh my god. There have been nothing but anti-union propaganda spots on TV for the past month.
Did you know that
Its the Unions fault when any plant closes.
Unions take peoples jobs away and get people laid off.
Unions just want to steal your money from you and leave you with nothing.
Chattanooga doesn't need a Union because "we're proud of our community" and we don't need "greedy outsiders" trying to force their way in.
One spot literally had an announcer say in an ominous tone "The UAW is in it for itself, not the workers."
It's been really stupid and gross.
VW has to appear indifferent or their German side unions would jam a foot in their ass.
But this outcome and the pro management propaganda from local Republicans is indubitably part of why that plant exists where it does.
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You need to accept that people can be hyperbolic in these discussions. If the hyperbole is overblowing a point, call people on it. But when you go through a detailed line-by-line analysis of the math of the hyperbole, you come across as defending the position by showing that the person being hyperbolic is getting basic facts wrong.
Your need to be technically correct is overriding your beliefs about unions, and it says something about your priorities.
So we should take you seriously, but not literally?
The top earning billionaire can't solve the financial ills of a nation just by throwing money at them.
The top 10 probably could, though. And I bet all of them are somehow coincidentally anti-union.
Hand-waving the incalculable good that Jeff Bezos could do were he not a goddamn vampire seems like a take lacking in nuance, if nothing else. Consider also the impact that Amazon could have by doing things like "paying living wages" or "lobbying for environmental regulation" or "refusing to take contracts working for ICE and the DOD".
That every billionaire is a policy failure doesn't absolve individual billionaires of responsibility for their actions.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Posts
There's also a whole lot that's wrapped up in the P.E. stamp. If you're talking anything having to do with drawings, buildings, and codes, you got to have that certification from your state. Without it, you're just a human calculator that quickly becoming replaced by better and faster software. Which means there is a literal divide between those who have a degree and those who are allowed to do things. This really puts a line between folks inside those departments.
I'm an engineer and I would love it if our salary employees could unionize (not just engineers). Lots of the engineers I work with feel the same way, but unfortunately the industry that we work in is very anti-union.
And maybe it's me being too close to the problem, but I don't see the connection here. A post is made about a successful union negotiation between Vox Media and the Writers Guild of America, which has nothing to do with engineering, and completely without context the next post is "I wish engineers didn’t hate good things, that union contract is amazing". Engineers had nothing to do with that union contract. Engineers hadn't even been discussed recently in this thread and suddenly everyone is dog piling and acting like engineers are the architects behind the downfall of society.
Are engineers really viewed that negatively by society in general and/or left leaning voters?
I think the person who posted that was lamenting that because they were an engineer, they'd never see a contract like that for their workplace.
Engineers are held in some amount of esteem for the job they do in my experience. It's just that some really smart people who should know better often prove that certain sectors are fucking moronic versions of exceptionalism. "Engineers" and "Tech" are often at the top of the example list.
I don't think it was a dig at anyone.
i, an engineer, posted that line. i would like to be in a union as it would allow us to negotiate such amazing contracts. i'm not saying engineers are behind the downfall of society, just that we are the engineers (he he) of our own bad workers rights because engineers on the whole hate hate hate hate hate unions. my post is 100% from a place of jealousy.
This. Do you get a minimum 11 weeks paid if you were let go? Paid 16 weeks of leave if you have a child? 10 days of bereavement leave before hitting any other PTO?
Beyond the fact that those should be bare minimums for everyone according to the law, I wonder how many engineering firms have similar benefits.
Edit: And out of those firms that don't have those benefits as standard for all employees (my guess, all of them) how many engineers on their own have negotiated for similar benefits? (my guess, none of them)
Based on my experience with plant layoffs, the mega-corporation I work for offers salary employees:
1) 1 week of severance pay per year worked for the company, which for me would be 13 years.
2) 12 weeks for both maternal and paternal leave, usable within 1 year of the birth date (or adoption date) of the child.
3) 10 days for in-laws, 12 days for direct blood relations.
Although in all fairness, these weren't as generous until they acquired another large business and merged our business unit with that one. And a lot of the "generosity" of the benefits is because it's cheaper to offer those than it is more competitive salary.
In all honestly, while I would fully support unionization of our engineering and other non-leadership salary employees, I'm too much of a coward to try and start up such an effort on my own. This company is VERY anti-union, to the point that they spent over $100M USD to close 2 union facilities and combine them into a single non-union shop.
@knight_ When you mentioned engineers, did you specifically mean software engineers?
Sounds like retail! Yay America!
Actual line: "We are not anti-union, but we are not neutral, either."
That would make you anti-union, Skippy.
I mean, if they weren't lying, it would mean they were pro-union.
What in the actual fuck. Our business model is based on the core values of:
1) Speed
2) Innovation
3) Customer Obsession
This sounds like the core values for a drug running business. Jesus christ, Amazon.
Warning signs include the use of words like "Living Wage" or "Grievance" or "Contract". But trust us, this is totally better for you, the associate. Warning signs also include "interest in policies and benefits."
What in the actual fuck.
I don't think there's much wrong with those values. It's the implementation
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Obsession is not a good thing.
Note that it's not "make our customers obsessed", it's "be obsessed with our customers". As opposed to like, being obsessed with your profits, or your shareholders.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
That puts a different light on that Alexa spying people thing.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
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Bezos could buy every homeless person on the planet a house and be the richest person in history again a year later
He could fix the Flint water crises with the money he makes in one minute
He could pay off all student debt with less than a month salary
Vanderbilt hospital cancelled my pay raises and took a week of vacation or more from every employee. They also merged sick time and vacation time into PTO, added in holidays and reduced the total number of hours you could bank by 40%. They could force flex you off without pay or assign you call without notice.
States without unions are worse states to live in. It doesn't matter which industry.
Edit: I was raised in California so I basically told them to fuck off and gave my notice on the spot. Moved back home and am doing much better at a different employer with a strong union.
That doesn't make it ok! But it's simply par for the course.
Which is fucking gross.
Eat the rich.
This sounded sketchy to me so I ran some numbers.
Bezos makes roughly 4.5 million every hour so about 3.3 billion every year and has a net worth of approximately 165 billion total
I'm going to be generous and assume that you somehow find a way to build all of these houses and buy and develop all the necessary land for $75k per house. At that rate assuming he cashes out literally everything he can cover about 2.2 million people. The estimated world homeless population is 150 million people with 1.6 billion that lack adequate housing. It's a dent but not much more than that.
On to Flint. He makes 4.5 million every hour so that's 75k/minute. I try to be optimistic about things but somehow I don't quite think 75k is going to cover the Flint water crisis.
Total estimated student loan debt in the US is around 1.5 trillion dollars and that's just the US so assuming that he keeps increasing his wealth by about 3.3 billion he could pay it off just the US student loan debt in 404.5ish years assuming the debt never increases in size.
I'm not going to argue that the amount of wealth Bezos has managed to acquire is a good thing, because it's definitely isn't, but you're off by orders of magnitude here.
As a note, most other countries do not have our problems with student loan debt, because they actually regulate their banks.
and make sure university is accessible
Oh for sure.
I couldn't find a reliable number for actual worldwide student loan debt but full disclosure considering the US alone is over 400 years of his annual income I didn't do a very deep dive.
You're overthinking this. Bezo's makes the yearly median income of a US citizen in less than a minute and yet is still terrified of having unions that would protect his employees instead of his bottom line.
No, not so much.
That video is terrible to the point where it almost came across as parody and I'm very much pro-union. I work for a company that makes around 20 billion in profit each year and sends out quarterly "God job!" emails about that and after doing some math I'm incredibly annoyed that they could give literally everyone in the company from the janitors to the CEO a 20k/year raise and still make 16+ billion in profit every year. And we haven't had a cost of living increase in almost a decade. I fucking wish we had a union.
I guess I thought I made this clear but maybe not. I'm not in any way defending Bezos' income. His income is utterly ridiculous and literally no one should have that kind of income or the power that comes with it. Ever.
But making things up about it is, well, making things up about it. So when presented with bullshit? I'm going to call bullshit.
Your need to be technically correct is overriding your beliefs about unions, and it says something about your priorities.
Nah. If people want to present facts, then they should present facts.
Your willingness to let bullshit go if you like it’s target says a lot about you.
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Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
No, I actually don't. Especially when someone is getting basic facts wrong. It took less than a minute of google and a calculator to confirm that those statements were bullshit.
Frankly "gawd it's just hyperbole" gets basically no fucking tolerance from me these days. I wholly believe that too many overly vocal people being unable or refusing to reign in their rhetorical bullshit is a big part of the problems we're currently facing.
I don't have a need to be technically correct. I have a desire for people on my side not to be full of shit.
The workers at a VW plant here in Chattanooga just voted to not unionize with the UAW.
VW was perfectly fine with it and didn't care either way.
But Tennessee Republicans. Oh my god. There have been nothing but anti-union propaganda spots on TV for the past month.
Did you know that
Its the Unions fault when any plant closes.
Unions take peoples jobs away and get people laid off.
Unions just want to steal your money from you and leave you with nothing.
Chattanooga doesn't need a Union because "we're proud of our community" and we don't need "greedy outsiders" trying to force their way in.
One spot literally had an announcer say in an ominous tone "The UAW is in it for itself, not the workers."
It's been really stupid and gross.
I don't like "truthiness" in the right, and i don't like it in the left either.
I was being hyperbolic
VW has to appear indifferent or their German side unions would jam a foot in their ass.
But this outcome and the pro management propaganda from local Republicans is indubitably part of why that plant exists where it does.
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The top 10 probably could, though. And I bet all of them are somehow coincidentally anti-union.
So we should take you seriously, but not literally?
It would be nice if we would try though
Many problems in our stupid broken society actually can be solved with money
Oh noes you might have to not treat your employees like slave labor. You're the reason why Unions exist.
But we've been busting unions for the last 300 years, I'm not surprised to see that trend continue.
Here's the response.
Overall, the candidates are taking labor much more seriously this time.
Hand-waving the incalculable good that Jeff Bezos could do were he not a goddamn vampire seems like a take lacking in nuance, if nothing else. Consider also the impact that Amazon could have by doing things like "paying living wages" or "lobbying for environmental regulation" or "refusing to take contracts working for ICE and the DOD".
That every billionaire is a policy failure doesn't absolve individual billionaires of responsibility for their actions.
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