Yeah, I've got very little respect for people who try and argue the inherent "realism" of the setting given the presence of aliens who look exactly like us and can shoot lasers out of their eyes.
No one is arguing realism in that sense. Just arguing using the established precedent in said fictional setting. It's the same argument as the latest Indiana Jones flick. It doesn't work because it takes an established idea and breaks it.
The realism is in the sense that there are no super powers, sci-fi, or fantasy stuff in that world prior to Superman arriving on earth.
It's not like in the MCU where they clearly establish that there's already an organization that deals with super powers/aliens and the military has a super soldier program in the first two films.
I do like how they just gave up half-way through trying to rationalize Superman's powers.
"He comes from a planet with high gravity, so that's why he has the capacity to be so strong!"
OK.
"And his atmosphere doesn't have a lot of oxygen in it, so Earth's atmosphere is like breathing nitro for him!"
Alright.
"And he absorbs solar radiation to fuel his increased strength and stamina."
Of course, that's classic.
"And he can fly, shoot laters out of his eyes and see through walls because... Uhh... I'm bored, let's go back to superman punching stuff."
The solar radiation was really the explanation for most of his power set.
The more solar radiation he is exposed to, the more powers he manifests because "Krypton!" I think in All-Star when he's benching the sextillions, he's developed a few extra.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I think the bigger problem is that the attempt at "realism" has somehow devolved into "dark and joyless," at least according to MoS.
Hell, all the Goyer movies had at least a few attempts at levity sprinkled through, so they didn't feel like a relentless slog through tangible grim. ("It's a black........... tank.") The sole light-hearted scene in MoS came immediately after Supes spent five seconds being annoyed he had to kill Zod.
Where the Nolan films worked is in supposing a Batman, ignoring physics and science for the most part, and then imagining how it would affect society. Batman is a dark figure motivated by grim circumstance and has to deal with some fucked up societal problems. The movie is dark because darkness is a realistic mood for the subject matter.
That's the sort of realism I'd like from DC. I don't care what Superman's powers are, or if Batman has armor. Just stick these characters in our world, set some rules, and show us how humanity reacts.
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Huh, I never thought about it before but Superman Returns had more levity than Man of Steel. When Superman utterly defeats the heavily-armed thugs robbing the bank without lifting a finger or saying a word? That's funny. Man of Steel would have benefitted from some moments like that.
I always find that scene kinda funny, cause Superman saved those two guys from the high-caliber bullets by getting in front of the line of fire... causing the bullets and fragments of said bullets... to fly all over the place... including the city.
Also, the extremely unnecessary need to have a gun of that size and type to set up and rob, what I remember, a bank.
I wish Superman Returns had committed to the "does the world needs Superman" idea. They could have had Superman come back to find out that while he was gone, Lex Luthor protected the world from disasters and super villains while he was gone.
Superman Returns had both Kevin Spacey and Brandon Routh. That casting alone makes the film worth a watch, even if it's not that great a Superman flick.
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+5
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
Superman Returns was an epic fuckload of wasted potential, pissed away on thoroughly absurd things. 20 years since the last Superman film, and about 25 years since the last decent Superman film?
... let's completely fuck this shit up with a horrible idea for continuing where Superman 2 left off instead of making something new. While we're at it, let's blatantly rip off the story from the first Superman film. Because it won't stick out at all that Superman fathered a son with a woman he mind-wiped, somehow the world went from typewriters to flatscreen TVs and the fucking internet in just 6 years, and now several of the characters act nothing like they did in Superman 2.
Had the casting for a decent Superman film, but the writing was criminally poor.
Honestly I thought Superman Returns was way more enjoyable than it typically gets credit for, but for the facts that the color pallet was criminally ugly and Luthor's plot was total idiocy in addition to being a needlessly on-the-nose callback to the first movies, where all of Luthor's plans are inexplicably real estate scams.
+2
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Superman Returns is a beautiful, lyrical movie examining the character's mythic qualities and fundamental alienatiom, using the cinematic language of the Donner film as a metaphor for the way our origins and our pasts define our present. Like the best superhero films, it is not a franchise entry or a merchandising opportunity; it's a personal artistic statement told through the medium of an existing world and characters. Sure, it didn't satisfy the punch and judy crowd, but neither did Man of Steel, a picture full of empty action and meaningless conflict. I don't think anyone will ever be happy with a Superman movie again; to do the character right demands an adherence to tradition, but audiences crave novelty, and I'm not sure the competing impulses can ever be reconciled.
Been a long time since I saw Superman Returns. All I really remember is that there was nothing really interesting about Luthor or his scheme in the movie. It was just so silly and this weird combination of petty and small and pointless and overwrought and ridiculously huge. Like someone gaining all the powers of a god and using them to commit check fraud for under $100.
I did kinda love the whole kryptonite joke, even if unintentional.
They establish, Kryptonite is his only weakness, even a sliver can kill him, but he can overcome a friggin mountain of it, just by believing real hard.
Brandon Routh was a great Superman, you only have to see him on Arrow to see how he got the Clark Kent persona down pat. His Ray Palmer was geeky but with a undercurrent of brilliance. So that you could believe that he competent in his job, but never suspect that he was a superhero.
Like has been said: great casting, crap writing.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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CokomonOur butts are worth fighting for!Registered Userregular
Another great Kevin Spacey Luthor part was how he rolled the R in "Krrrrrrrrrrypyonite!"
He was great right from the start. Romancing that old woman and getting her to leave him everything, he walks out, gives her grandson his wig and says "You can keep that. The rest is mine."
Was a pretty great DGAF introduction.
+6
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Brandon Routh was a great Superman, you only have to see him on Arrow to see how he got the Clark Kent persona down pat. His Ray Palmer was geeky but with a undercurrent of brilliance. So that you could believe that he competent in his job, but never suspect that he was a superhero.
Like has been said: great casting, crap writing.
Not gonna lie, it irritates me that he lost his shot at a continuing Superman role because Superman Returns was such a bumblefuck pile of dumb. Irritates me even more that Spacey's Luthor was executed so well and was so wasted on some pretty inane and idiotic garbage.
Superman Returns was exactly the fucking movie all the people who hate MoS wanted. It's bright and cheery and fun and superman is a symbol of hope and you geese hate it because superman isn't a perfect boring god
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
I think Superman Returns would have been much better received if it were actually bright and cheery to look at, like an MCU film. Also if, again, Luther's plot wasn't so transparently fucking stupid. It's a real shame too, because as others have said, Spacey is great in it.
Superman Returns is a beautiful, lyrical movie examining the character's mythic qualities and fundamental alienatiom, using the cinematic language of the Donner film as a metaphor for the way our origins and our pasts define our present. Like the best superhero films, it is not a franchise entry or a merchandising opportunity; it's a personal artistic statement told through the medium of an existing world and characters.
It was definitely a franchise entry.
Sure, it didn't satisfy the punch and judy crowd, but neither did Man of Steel, a picture full of empty action and meaningless conflict. I don't think anyone will ever be happy with a Superman movie again; to do the character right demands an adherence to tradition, but audiences crave novelty, and I'm not sure the competing impulses can ever be reconciled.
The violence, as flawed as it was, wasn't why it was a bad Superman movie. The reason it and MOS failed to capture the modern day audience was their flawed writing, stupid main villain plans and being unable to grasp how to properly update Superman for today. Movies can do made for these audiences, but not by WB at this stage. They can by Marvel.
Best Superman movies made today.
Next time WB should reflect before making a movie where Superman is a dead beat dad or an apathetic bully who doesn't care about collateral damage. Novelty shouldn't be this hard to get right. It's Superman.
Superman Returns was exactly the fucking movie all the people who hate MoS wanted. It's bright and cheery and fun and superman is a symbol of hope and you geese hate it because superman isn't a perfect boring god
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
Superman Returns was exactly the fucking movie all the people who hate MoS wanted. It's bright and cheery and fun and superman is a symbol of hope and you geese hate it because superman isn't a perfect boring god
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
Sorry, I don't like my Supermans to unintentionally (or otherwise) impregnate their girlfriends, mind-wipe them, then fuck off to space for 7 years. I also don't like my Supermans to have shitty parents that tell them to not use their powers to help people, and raise a kid that is willing to be a petty dick to unpowered people at truck stops. And also wreck the town he grew up in and the town he lives in now with blatant disregard for the people that actually live there.
I don't understand how so many people get Superman wrong when it comes to movies.
Sorry, I don't like my Supermans to unintentionally (or otherwise) impregnate their girlfriends, mind-wipe them, then fuck off to space for 7 years.
Wait, are you just writing these three things as three unrelated elements, or as a succession of events? Because yes, Superman impregnated Lois and fucked off for 7 years before Superman Returns, and he mind-wiped Lois in Superman 2. But it sounds like you're saying Superman wiped Lois' mind (again) after he impregnated her. And that would be fucked up (even more than the end of S2). But I didn't get that from the movie at all - quite the opposite, I got that she knew the kid was Superman's and that she was lying to her boyfriend to make him believe it was his kid and have a normal family (which is also all kinds of fucked up, but does not involve mind wipes, just mind games). Also, in the end of the movie she comes clean to Superman, but not to her boyfriend.
Man, just thinking about the ending of this movie is making me want to take a shower.
I did kinda love the whole kryptonite joke, even if unintentional.
They establish, Kryptonite is his only weakness, even a sliver can kill him, but he can overcome a friggin mountain of it, just by believing real hard.
They do a similar thing in MoS with the terraformer where they establish that Kryptonian atmosphere takes away his power and the terraformer was creating a Kryptonian atmosphere around itself but Superman could still use his power because he's space Jesus.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Superman Returns was exactly the fucking movie all the people who hate MoS wanted. It's bright and cheery and fun and superman is a symbol of hope and you geese hate it because superman isn't a perfect boring god
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
Uh superman returns, while not a terrible film in my book, is not bright cheery happy or showin superman as a symbol of hope.
Superman Returns was exactly the fucking movie all the people who hate MoS wanted. It's bright and cheery and fun and superman is a symbol of hope and you geese hate it because superman isn't a perfect boring god
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
Nobody has said the bolded. If that's what you're getting out of people's posts you should probably stop.
Posts
DC announces new tie-in video game: The Legend of Zelda: Batman
let's not kid ourselves, we'd all play it.
No one is arguing realism in that sense. Just arguing using the established precedent in said fictional setting. It's the same argument as the latest Indiana Jones flick. It doesn't work because it takes an established idea and breaks it.
"He comes from a planet with high gravity, so that's why he has the capacity to be so strong!"
OK.
"And his atmosphere doesn't have a lot of oxygen in it, so Earth's atmosphere is like breathing nitro for him!"
Alright.
"And he absorbs solar radiation to fuel his increased strength and stamina."
Of course, that's classic.
"And he can fly, shoot laters out of his eyes and see through walls because... Uhh... I'm bored, let's go back to superman punching stuff."
It's not like in the MCU where they clearly establish that there's already an organization that deals with super powers/aliens and the military has a super soldier program in the first two films.
The solar radiation was really the explanation for most of his power set.
The more solar radiation he is exposed to, the more powers he manifests because "Krypton!" I think in All-Star when he's benching the sextillions, he's developed a few extra.
So you're saying this is the scriptwriter for BvS?
newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tfr/5031493460.html
Ugh. Him again? Give us a different villain, WB.
We think it's Gannon, but it turns out to be Doctor Wily in a cheap disguise.
Hell, all the Goyer movies had at least a few attempts at levity sprinkled through, so they didn't feel like a relentless slog through tangible grim. ("It's a black........... tank.") The sole light-hearted scene in MoS came immediately after Supes spent five seconds being annoyed he had to kill Zod.
That's the sort of realism I'd like from DC. I don't care what Superman's powers are, or if Batman has armor. Just stick these characters in our world, set some rules, and show us how humanity reacts.
Also, the extremely unnecessary need to have a gun of that size and type to set up and rob, what I remember, a bank.
Edit: Still pretty cool scene tho.
"Lois Lane?"
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
Glad I saw it before WRONG! took off.
I... I have a confession to make
I have neither played a Zelda or Batman game
Edit: WRONG! Is a great fuckinf line
... let's completely fuck this shit up with a horrible idea for continuing where Superman 2 left off instead of making something new. While we're at it, let's blatantly rip off the story from the first Superman film. Because it won't stick out at all that Superman fathered a son with a woman he mind-wiped, somehow the world went from typewriters to flatscreen TVs and the fucking internet in just 6 years, and now several of the characters act nothing like they did in Superman 2.
Had the casting for a decent Superman film, but the writing was criminally poor.
I'm going to destroy the world to create real estate, so people will pay money to move into my barren crystal wasteland
...surely money will still be valuable after I completely annihilate the global economy right
They establish, Kryptonite is his only weakness, even a sliver can kill him, but he can overcome a friggin mountain of it, just by believing real hard.
Like has been said: great casting, crap writing.
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
Was a pretty great DGAF introduction.
Not gonna lie, it irritates me that he lost his shot at a continuing Superman role because Superman Returns was such a bumblefuck pile of dumb. Irritates me even more that Spacey's Luthor was executed so well and was so wasted on some pretty inane and idiotic garbage.
So they make MoS for you and you hate it because it's not superman returns!
It was definitely a franchise entry.
The violence, as flawed as it was, wasn't why it was a bad Superman movie. The reason it and MOS failed to capture the modern day audience was their flawed writing, stupid main villain plans and being unable to grasp how to properly update Superman for today. Movies can do made for these audiences, but not by WB at this stage. They can by Marvel.
Best Superman movies made today.
Next time WB should reflect before making a movie where Superman is a dead beat dad or an apathetic bully who doesn't care about collateral damage. Novelty shouldn't be this hard to get right. It's Superman.
I don't understand how so many people get Superman wrong when it comes to movies.
Wait, are you just writing these three things as three unrelated elements, or as a succession of events? Because yes, Superman impregnated Lois and fucked off for 7 years before Superman Returns, and he mind-wiped Lois in Superman 2. But it sounds like you're saying Superman wiped Lois' mind (again) after he impregnated her. And that would be fucked up (even more than the end of S2). But I didn't get that from the movie at all - quite the opposite, I got that she knew the kid was Superman's and that she was lying to her boyfriend to make him believe it was his kid and have a normal family (which is also all kinds of fucked up, but does not involve mind wipes, just mind games). Also, in the end of the movie she comes clean to Superman, but not to her boyfriend.
Man, just thinking about the ending of this movie is making me want to take a shower.
They do a similar thing in MoS with the terraformer where they establish that Kryptonian atmosphere takes away his power and the terraformer was creating a Kryptonian atmosphere around itself but Superman could still use his power because he's space Jesus.
Uh superman returns, while not a terrible film in my book, is not bright cheery happy or showin superman as a symbol of hope.
Maybe take it down a few pegs.
Nobody has said the bolded. If that's what you're getting out of people's posts you should probably stop.