You guys keep going on about how this shouldn't be news and it's overblown and what not. To me, it's just sending the message that being an openly racist asshole isn't welcome in this society. You know why all of these sorts of incidents get played up? Because they happen so infrequently that, when they do happen, people are and should be genuinely surprised. If, as so many white people keep saying, things are better than they were and we're pretty much race neutral, isn't it appropriate that we pound down these nails that stick out? If we're as free of racism as we keep saying we are, it shouldn't be a matter of whether we allow people to say these types of things, it should be a matter of how harshly we punish them for perpetuating these racist ideas.
Your idea of "race neutral" is that it's ok for one race to say something but evil for someone of another race to say it. That is the polar opposite of race neutral. That is: "race is everything."
And even ignoring that, I think a lot of us are still having a hard time understanding why "nappy-headed hos" is racist or sexist. It's really just generally deragatory. I think this is more about who Imus is, and as a political springboard to launch a larger power move. Regardless, I can all but guarantee you this has nothing at all to do with stamping out racism. Our pounding down nails, or however you want to view it.
Damn straight that was what we said. We said it plenty, and you'll find many instances of it. In this thread in fact, which is why you'll start quoting it.
Amazing how a century of intolerance at the tolerance of racial intolerance can be embodied into a single individual (and one who does not appear to be overtly racist at that).
Amazing how a century of intolerance at the tolerance of racial intolerance can be embodied into a single individual (and one who does not appear to be overtly racist at that).
Damn straight that was what we said. We said it plenty, and you'll find many instances of it. In this thread in fact, which is why you'll start quoting it.
Why am I supposed to care about what this dillhole Imus has to say? Does he stand around infront of highschools with signs that read "N*****S ARE AN INFERIOR CLASS"? Cause the guy I linked to does. I went to highschool in Mississippi (unfortunately) and had to deal with this asshole every day for the better part of a schoolyear.
And that's just -one- example.
Why aren't we attacking the problem at its roots? All we ever do to "fight racism" in America is identify a scapegoat, paint a big bullseye on thier back, then let all the black community's "leaders" take shots at him. It really gets so much done. Yay us.
Amazing how a century of intolerance at the tolerance of racial intolerance can be embodied into a single individual (and one who does not appear to be overtly racist at that).
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist and all this does is take away his ability to speak to people on a large scale, sorta (he can still make a website/podcast if he wants, I guess). He'll still believe or think whatever he believes or thinks.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
Guys, you're getting this all wrong. Some white people didn't think it was racist, so clearly it's not.
I don't think anyone is arguing the racistisity (new word!) of his statement. I'm just wondering that since this is all done in the name of defeating racism in America why we continue to do the same thing every year or so without actually solving anything. I predict another social uproar over something racist a media figure says within the next 12 months. Like clockwork.
man, nobody ever said (that I can recall anyway) that racism is dead save a few nails and we are all neutral and lovey dovey.
racism is here but firestorming this guy only makes it worse. Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!" Many blacks who might not have been racism might very well see this and get pissed off. "Damn the whitey!"
So what this got, was one bigoted loud mouth, old white dude fired. Several black leaders in the limelight. Pissed off white people. Pissed off black people. Pissed off purple people.
Yeah, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion too but you know what? Pissing people off doesn't help the cause. I personally cannot wait until the day when we are so blended together that race is a joke in and of itself but people like Jackson and What-his-butt shouting from the rooftops, "HEY LOOK WHAT HE SAID! LETS ALL BE MAD!" helps nothing.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
No it isn't.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny, correct. "Intolerance" doesn't mean shutting your eyes to it, though, or simply shutting every racist or misogynist up. Simply because you allow it a mouthpiece doesn't mean you are tolerating it. In fact, I'd very much rather hear who the racists are so I can actively ignore them.
man, nobody ever said (that I can recall anyway) that racism is dead save a few nails and we are all neutral and lovey dovey.
racism is here but firestorming this guy only makes it worse. Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!" Many blacks who might not have been racism might very well see this and get pissed off. "Damn the whitey!"
So what this got, was one bigoted loud mouth, old white dude fired. Several black leaders in the limelight. Pissed off white people. Pissed off black people. Pissed off purple people.
Yeah, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion too but you know what? Pissing people off doesn't help the cause. I personally cannot wait until the day when we are so blended together that race is a joke in and of itself but people like Jackson and What-his-butt shouting from the rooftops, "HEY LOOK WHAT HE SAID! LETS ALL BE MAD!" helps nothing.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away. It's pretty simple.
man, nobody ever said (that I can recall anyway) that racism is dead save a few nails and we are all neutral and lovey dovey.
When I talk about racism being dead, I'm not refering to anything anyone has said in this discussion. I think my series of posts/points hashes out what I mean pretty clearly.
And even ignoring that, I think a lot of us are still having a hard time understanding why "nappy-headed hos" is racist or sexist. It's really just generally deragatory. I think this is more about who Imus is, and as a political springboard to launch a larger power move. Regardless, I can all but guarantee you this has nothing at all to do with stamping out racism. Our pounding down nails, or however you want to view it.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance.
man, nobody ever said (that I can recall anyway) that racism is dead save a few nails and we are all neutral and lovey dovey.
racism is here but firestorming this guy only makes it worse. Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!" Many blacks who might not have been racism might very well see this and get pissed off. "Damn the whitey!"
So what this got, was one bigoted loud mouth, old white dude fired. Several black leaders in the limelight. Pissed off white people. Pissed off black people. Pissed off purple people.
Yeah, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion too but you know what? Pissing people off doesn't help the cause. I personally cannot wait until the day when we are so blended together that race is a joke in and of itself but people like Jackson and What-his-butt shouting from the rooftops, "HEY LOOK WHAT HE SAID! LETS ALL BE MAD!" helps nothing.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away. It's pretty simple.
getting people to pissed off and fighting eachother doesnt either.
Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!"
You'll have to forgive me for not trusting your insight into the inner workings of a non-racist.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
No it isn't.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny, correct. "Intolerance" doesn't mean shutting your eyes to it, though, or simply shutting every racist or misogynist up. Simply because you allow it a mouthpiece doesn't mean you are tolerating it. In fact, I'd very much rather hear who the racists are so I can actively ignore them.
But if you pay that mouthpiece to mouth those ideas, you aren't only tolerating them but rewarding them also.
Amazing how a century of intolerance at the tolerance of racial intolerance can be embodied into a single individual (and one who does not appear to be overtly racist at that).
In my experience, people don't seem to want to think back more than a century if they don't have to. Doesn't mean a century is the perfect measure of time, but it's a reasonable enough duration to satisfy the intent of the message.
I dunno. Does Imus really have any influence anymore? If that's true, I guess I could see why kicking him out would be a wise decision.
(bear in mind this is just wiki)
Originally considered a shock jock, Imus turned his show more towards politics and news and has gained public influence as a result. During the 1990s, Imus in the Morning gained a reputation as a useful, non-traditional platform for politicians to express their views and gain exposure. Former U.S. Sen. Al D'Amato (R-N.Y.) was one of the first officeholders to ingratiate himself with "The I-man", as Imus is frequently called by cast and guests. The show's many guests included prominent politicians such as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Mitt Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, Dick Cheney, J.D. Hayworth and Harold Ford, Jr., as well as reporters and columnists from Newsweek, NBC, MSNBC, and other media outlets. In 1997, Imus was named as one of Time magazine's "25 most influential people in America"; he was also on the cover of Newsweek in 1999.
As of 2005, Imus in the Morning was carried by about 90 radio stations across the United States.[4] Arbitron analysis put the program among the most listened to radio talk shows in the United States,[5] and had about 1.6 million radio listeners per week[6]. Because the show drew more affluent and less politically partisan demographic compared to other radio talk shows, it was able to demand advertising rates comparable to competing radio shows with higher ratings.[7] (This included the former Howard Stern terrestrial radio broadcast. In comparison, Stern attracted more than 8.25 million listeners on half as many stations.) However, as a result of Imus' remarks and suspension in April 2007, numerous major advertisers decided to pull their advertising from his show.
At the time of its television cancellation, Imus in the Morning averaged 361,000 viewers and was up 39 percent, ranking third among cable morning news programs in the Nielsen ratings, compared to 769,000 viewers of Fox and Friends on Fox News Channel and 372,000 viewers of CNN's American Morning.[8] The program is reported to generate $20 million in annual revenue for WFAN, representing approximately 25 percent of the New York anchor station's revenue. Total revenue, including affiliate advertising and MSNBC, was said to be $50 million.[9]
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
No it isn't.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny, correct. "Intolerance" doesn't mean shutting your eyes to it, though, or simply shutting every racist or misogynist up. Simply because you allow it a mouthpiece doesn't mean you are tolerating it. In fact, I'd very much rather hear who the racists are so I can actively ignore them.
But if you pay that mouthpiece to mouth those ideas, you aren't only tolerating them but rewarding them also.
I'd use "endorse" rather than "reward," because a salary isn't a reward. But that's just pedantic I guess.
And I'm not talking about the companies that enable Imus to speak tolerating him, I'm talking about the public.
IMUS was an easy target and probably brings in more dollars than these other guys. The guy has made stupid off-color comments, but to judge him on THIS comment alone is nonsense, and shameful on CBS's part.
As for the "attack the messenger, and not the message" argument - of course its valid, if the reason for the attack is dubious as is the messenger. If the ceo of a Martian-Invasion-Insurance™ company started talking about how the Martian Invasion was inevitable, you wouldnt question his motivations, and the legitimacy of his message?
By the by, where is NOW and GLAAD, and Hillary and Obama bemoaning the sexism in the mans comments? Theres only black girls on the team?
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
No it isn't.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny, correct. "Intolerance" doesn't mean shutting your eyes to it, though, or simply shutting every racist or misogynist up. Simply because you allow it a mouthpiece doesn't mean you are tolerating it. In fact, I'd very much rather hear who the racists are so I can actively ignore them.
But if you pay that mouthpiece to mouth those ideas, you aren't only tolerating them but rewarding them also.
I'm sure Imus was going to come back and start spouting out racist ideas again......
Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!"
You'll have to forgive me for not trusting your insight into the inner workings of a non-racist.
you're forgiven. if you think I'm a racist then so be it. you probably think I'm a damn harp too huh? I don't really care. If my opinion isn't held by others than so be it. Im not backing Imus, I never was. I wouldnt listen to his crap if I were paid. I am against the way the entire thing was handled and truley believe that doing things this way makes them worse and not better.
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance.
It isn't whether Imus is a comedian or not. He has powerful, influential people on his show, which gives him a kind of credibility and influence, too.
I dunno. Does Imus really have any influence anymore? If that's true, I guess I could see why kicking him out would be a wise decision.
Fox News just said that he generates $50 million a year.
And really, regardless of how much influence you have, mentioning someone on the radio is going to have an effect on them unless such notice is an everyday occurrence for them. One person listens to the radio program, and then it's a short while before everyone on the campus has heard.
And frankly, it's bad enough being insulted in a face to face encounter.
Why am I supposed to care about what this dillhole Imus has to say? Does he stand around infront of highschools with signs that read "N*****S ARE AN INFERIOR CLASS"? Cause the guy I linked to does. I went to highschool in Mississippi (unfortunately) and had to deal with this asshole every day for the better part of a schoolyear.
And that's just -one- example.
Why aren't we attacking the problem at its roots? All we ever do to "fight racism" in America is identify a scapegoat, paint a big bullseye on thier back, then let all the black community's "leaders" take shots at him. It really gets so much done. Yay us.
What is the root of the problem that we're not attacking? Why can't we attack it while also attacking powerful and famous racists like Imus?
And I'm not getting when any of us came close to claiming that our outrage at him was going to "solve" racism. It just you pretending we did, to make yourself feel good, because you're not getting outraged about such petty things.
Keep pretending.
The outrage over what he said made his sponsors pull out, and got him fired. But we're open-minded people who will follow in your do-nothing footsteps as soon you tell us what they've accomplished.
Guys, you're getting this all wrong. Some white people didn't think it was racist, so clearly it's not.
This seems to be the message I get from talk radio around these parts (Madison, Wisconsin). A parade of white callers echoed that exact same sentiment. After that was settled, it was on to why everyone tolerates 'those hip-hoppers.'
I'm not sure I totally understand why it matters that some radio host is racist. I mean, racism exists. If Imus weren't an impotent, boring old fart I could see how it could potentially matter. If his voice had power, for instance. Should racism that doesn't actively affect people be curtailed? I mean, racism that leads to people being segregated or, say, barred from certain areas/schools/shops/etc. should not be allowed, but ultimately it doesn't really matter that Imus says something racist and all this does is take away his ability to speak to people on a large scale, sorta (he can still make a website/podcast if he wants, I guess). He'll still believe or think whatever he believes or thinks.
Exactly. He also had credibility. He regularly had high profile politicians and and celebrities on as guests. I know what's in his head will be in his head, but I don't want him to profit from it, and I don't want it to seem an ok thing to say. Because it's not.
Posts
You and me both, brother!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/12/imus.rutgers/index.html
And even ignoring that, I think a lot of us are still having a hard time understanding why "nappy-headed hos" is racist or sexist. It's really just generally deragatory. I think this is more about who Imus is, and as a political springboard to launch a larger power move. Regardless, I can all but guarantee you this has nothing at all to do with stamping out racism. Our pounding down nails, or however you want to view it.
Welcome to the party
Sorry if I am late to the party. Please excuse my tardiness.
It's all good because we finally won. That bastard, Racism is dead.
Your movements of civil rights were not in vain.
Oh man, you're beating that strawman pretty good. Have mercy!
Lead Gameplay Programmer
Firaxis Games
I'm not sure what the fuck you don't get.
There are guys who still run for office on the platform that white protestants are better than everyone else. (and they get a disturbing amount of the vote to!)
Why am I supposed to care about what this dillhole Imus has to say? Does he stand around infront of highschools with signs that read "N*****S ARE AN INFERIOR CLASS"? Cause the guy I linked to does. I went to highschool in Mississippi (unfortunately) and had to deal with this asshole every day for the better part of a schoolyear.
And that's just -one- example.
Why aren't we attacking the problem at its roots? All we ever do to "fight racism" in America is identify a scapegoat, paint a big bullseye on thier back, then let all the black community's "leaders" take shots at him. It really gets so much done. Yay us.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny. It's pretty simple.
I don't think anyone is arguing the racistisity (new word!) of his statement. I'm just wondering that since this is all done in the name of defeating racism in America why we continue to do the same thing every year or so without actually solving anything. I predict another social uproar over something racist a media figure says within the next 12 months. Like clockwork.
racism is here but firestorming this guy only makes it worse. Many whites who might be really good, non-racist people are going to see this (as evident here) as horseshit preyed upon by powerful people for their own adgenda and have their view of the entire civil rights movement tarnished. "Damn the black man!" Many blacks who might not have been racism might very well see this and get pissed off. "Damn the whitey!"
So what this got, was one bigoted loud mouth, old white dude fired. Several black leaders in the limelight. Pissed off white people. Pissed off black people. Pissed off purple people.
Yeah, maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion too but you know what? Pissing people off doesn't help the cause. I personally cannot wait until the day when we are so blended together that race is a joke in and of itself but people like Jackson and What-his-butt shouting from the rooftops, "HEY LOOK WHAT HE SAID! LETS ALL BE MAD!" helps nothing.
stout's Amazon Wishlist | my lastFM
No it isn't.
People shouldn't tolerate racism or misogyny, correct. "Intolerance" doesn't mean shutting your eyes to it, though, or simply shutting every racist or misogynist up. Simply because you allow it a mouthpiece doesn't mean you are tolerating it. In fact, I'd very much rather hear who the racists are so I can actively ignore them.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away. It's pretty simple.
When I talk about racism being dead, I'm not refering to anything anyone has said in this discussion. I think my series of posts/points hashes out what I mean pretty clearly.
Also:
getting people to pissed off and fighting eachother doesnt either.
stout's Amazon Wishlist | my lastFM
Insofar as private interests are concerned with allowing these mouthpieces, uh, yes, it does.
It's pretty simple.
I stand corrected.
You'll have to forgive me for not trusting your insight into the inner workings of a non-racist.
I dunno. Does Imus really have any influence anymore? If that's true, I guess I could see why kicking him out would be a wise decision.
But if you pay that mouthpiece to mouth those ideas, you aren't only tolerating them but rewarding them also.
In my experience, people don't seem to want to think back more than a century if they don't have to. Doesn't mean a century is the perfect measure of time, but it's a reasonable enough duration to satisfy the intent of the message.
Lead Gameplay Programmer
Firaxis Games
(bear in mind this is just wiki)
I'd use "endorse" rather than "reward," because a salary isn't a reward. But that's just pedantic I guess.
And I'm not talking about the companies that enable Imus to speak tolerating him, I'm talking about the public.
IMUS was an easy target and probably brings in more dollars than these other guys. The guy has made stupid off-color comments, but to judge him on THIS comment alone is nonsense, and shameful on CBS's part.
As for the "attack the messenger, and not the message" argument - of course its valid, if the reason for the attack is dubious as is the messenger. If the ceo of a Martian-Invasion-Insurance™ company started talking about how the Martian Invasion was inevitable, you wouldnt question his motivations, and the legitimacy of his message?
By the by, where is NOW and GLAAD, and Hillary and Obama bemoaning the sexism in the mans comments? Theres only black girls on the team?
I'm sure Imus was going to come back and start spouting out racist ideas again......
you're forgiven. if you think I'm a racist then so be it. you probably think I'm a damn harp too huh? I don't really care. If my opinion isn't held by others than so be it. Im not backing Imus, I never was. I wouldnt listen to his crap if I were paid. I am against the way the entire thing was handled and truley believe that doing things this way makes them worse and not better.
stout's Amazon Wishlist | my lastFM
Fox News just said that he generates $50 million a year.
And really, regardless of how much influence you have, mentioning someone on the radio is going to have an effect on them unless such notice is an everyday occurrence for them. One person listens to the radio program, and then it's a short while before everyone on the campus has heard.
And frankly, it's bad enough being insulted in a face to face encounter.
What is the root of the problem that we're not attacking? Why can't we attack it while also attacking powerful and famous racists like Imus?
And I'm not getting when any of us came close to claiming that our outrage at him was going to "solve" racism. It just you pretending we did, to make yourself feel good, because you're not getting outraged about such petty things.
Keep pretending.
The outrage over what he said made his sponsors pull out, and got him fired. But we're open-minded people who will follow in your do-nothing footsteps as soon you tell us what they've accomplished.
Maybe...
MSNBC suck anyways, try CNN, or ABC in the morning. Serious does anyone watch MSNBC? I bet Imus in the morning was one of their top rated programs.
This seems to be the message I get from talk radio around these parts (Madison, Wisconsin). A parade of white callers echoed that exact same sentiment. After that was settled, it was on to why everyone tolerates 'those hip-hoppers.'
Exactly. He also had credibility. He regularly had high profile politicians and and celebrities on as guests. I know what's in his head will be in his head, but I don't want him to profit from it, and I don't want it to seem an ok thing to say. Because it's not.