When my brother told me it was a Historical rifle pack and said it looks like a bolt action and Mauser. I thought he was talking about WWI rifles
Because walking into a bank with a MG 08/15 would cause alarm and curiosity.
That's why the Nagant's got like, twice the amount of threat compared to the machine gun in the same pack.
When my brother told me it was a Historical rifle pack and said it looks like a bolt action and Mauser. I thought he was talking about WWI rifles
Because walking into a bank with a MG 08/15 would cause alarm and curiosity.
That's why the Nagant's got like, twice the amount of threat compared to the machine gun in the same pack.
That's a mechanics thing. Threat is generated with every shot so if MGs shared threat levels with snipers you'd be incapable of firing a burst without every cop turning to blast you away.
When my brother told me it was a Historical rifle pack and said it looks like a bolt action and Mauser. I thought he was talking about WWI rifles
Because walking into a bank with a MG 08/15 would cause alarm and curiosity.
That's why the Nagant's got like, twice the amount of threat compared to the machine gun in the same pack.
Threat only affects cops going for cover. It does not affect them shooting you.
The long guide has a, predictably, long description of the targeting algorithm that I'll quote below. The short version is: cops shoot the most recent alert (and then pick by distance). If you generated an alert they're in range of, they're shooting you till another one pops up. Threat doesn't matter, silencers only reduce the radius of the alert (although they reduce it a lot).
Target Priority and Decision to Shoot
Every enemy assigns a priority to every player (or converted enemy) to decide who to focus on. The player with the lowest priority value becomes the target whereas all other players are completely ignored. Reviving players and players who are not seen by the enemy (due to cover) always have a priority value of 7, the highest possible value. Otherwise, start with a base priority depending on distance between enemy and player:
If distance < 5 m: Base priority 2
If 5 m <= distance < 15 m: Base priority 4
If distance >= 15 m : Base priority 6
From this base priority, subtract the following:
If the enemy was personally damaged by the player in the last 5 seconds, subtract 2.
If the enemy was not personally damaged by the player, but has heard an alert of the player in the last 3.5 seconds, subtract 1 instead.
If the enemy had focused on the player already, but for less than 4 seconds, subtract 3 (thus enemies tend to stick to one target for 4 seconds at least).
If the priority value is less than 1, set it to 1. Pick the player with the lowest priority as the target. If several players have the same priority, choose the one with the smallest distance.
Enemies hurt or killed without Shinobi aced do scream even after alarm, albeit with a range of 4 m instead of 6 m. I suspect that this was meant to count as an alert of the player, causing other enemies close by to lower the priority of the player in question. However, as stated in the alerts section, nobody ever listens to anything but gunshots after the alarm went off. Thus those screams are unheard regardless of skills.
The game takes the product of all priority-altering skills (0.85 each for Chameleon aced and the Rogue perk, 1.15 for the Muscle perk) and multiplies the damage-time and alert-time by this value. The distance is divided by the product. This modified distance is used both to calculate your priority and when you are tied with other players. For example, take a player with both Chameleon aced and the Rogue perk, so the multiplier is 0.85*0.85 = 0.7225. The damage-time becomes 5*0.7225 = 3.6125 seconds and the alert-time becomes 2.52875 seconds. The effective distance is divided by 0.7225, so if the player is farther than 15*0.7225 = 10.8375 m away, he is already assigned the base priority 6 (whereas players without any skills have priority 4 up to 15 m).
Once an enemy has decided to focus on you, he will make a few checks whether or not to actually shoot at you.
Players who are in the process of being arrested are never shot at. Other than that, regardless of the other reasons given below (which have some odd exceptions), an enemy will always shoot if has the "engage" attitude and you are in close/far range of his weapon while he is moving/stationary. Close range usually is 10 m; Shields however have 5 m, whereas Deathwish glass cannon enemies have 20 m (all non-special enemies except green FBIs, Tans and GenSec Elites; whose weapons apparently remain exactly the same regardless of difficulty). Far range is 50 m. The attitude depends on the current strategy of the enemy squad and whether or not you are in an assault. If he has a different attitude he will aim at you instead.
If the enemy hasn't decided to shoot at this point, he will shoot if one of the following conditions is satisfied:
The time of his last suppression buildup is less than 2.1 seconds/7 seconds ago when he is moving/stationary. Does not apply to special enemies and GenSec who cannot be suppressed. It does not matter who suppressed him, nor does the suppression amount make any difference.
You are in close range of his weapon and aiming at him. On distances greater than 7 m, angle to his chest is required to be less than 10°, then it becomes sticky and you must aim more than 18° away to calm him down; weapon sights not required. The angle increases when the distance is less than 7 m. In the most extreme case, if you are less than 50 cm away, the angle becomes 73° regardless of stickiness.
You are not in close range of his weapon and have damaged (but not killed) or alerted any enemy in the last 2 seconds. Killing an enemy with a single hit (using a silenced sniper rifle for example) does not count. If you are within close weapon range, this condition is ignored.
Chameleon aced and perks do not help against the decision to shoot. if all players do have the same skills and perks, the priorities might shift a bit, but once a player has become the target, he will be shot at with full force (if the enemy has decided to shoot that is).
There are two more points about suppression and the decision to shoot. The suppression information is deleted when the suppression wears off. If the suppressed state of the enemy is set to last only 6 seconds, then the enemy does not know about any suppression buildup in the seventh second and ignores this reason. The second point works in the opposite direction: As long as the enemy has suppression information, he will ignore the damage/alert reason and the aimed-at reason. A moving, suppressed enemy without the "engage" attitude will shoot back in the first 2.1 seconds after the suppression buildup. After that, he will decide against shooting until the suppression either wears off or more suppression builds up.
During stealth, the general rule is that nobody has the "engage" attitude except camera operators. Exceptions to this rule:
Jewelry Store/Ukrainian Job: All patrolling guards engage. The camera operator and the cops at the hot dog cart do not engage.
Framing Frame day 1: Nobody engages, not even the camera operator.
Big Oil day 1: All bikers engage.
Firestarter day 1: Most gangsters engage. Some of the stationary gangsters do not engage. Those are the gangsters that do not trigger alarm when uncool.
The mobsters of Nightclub do not engage. After alarm went off, there are a couple of enemies who will not engage; what follows is a non-exhaustive list: Gangsters usually lose the attitude at this point. GenSecs on Transport heists never engage. The green Bulldozer dropped on day 1 of Rats does not engage.
If you don't shoot and don't aim at an uncool enemy without the "engage" attitude (say, while ECM rushing), he will not shoot. He will prioritize aiming at you over using his phone and may stop in the middle of the phone call just to aim at you (shouting at them while not aiming at them helps drawing their attention), though it seems that if he is too far into the call he will finish it first. If he does not stop the phone call immediately upon noticing you, he needs to be dealt with.
Enemies who are not engaging try to seek cover if possible, making it necessary to run after them, as they break line of sight and then use their phone. They may run out of the map depending on the circumstances. As with suppression, cover is anything that blocks line of sight to the player, which means that proper positioning of the player will block the enemy from leaving the map. Ideally the enemy finds cover with a low profile. He will get behind the cover in a crouched stance and try to call the police (as there is no player in sight). He can only use his phone when standing however, so he stands up, sees the player and crouches again. Such an enemy is stuck in an infinite cycle of standing and crouching as long as there is a player close by (beware of the arrest attempt every 4 minutes). During stealth, enemies can be chased across the map in a controlled manner by proper positioning of the player.
That enemies in close range do not decide to shoot when noticing alerts (or the damaging of other enemies) has some hilarious results. Take Jewelry Store for example, with 2 cops at the hot dog cart. The player may approach and kill one of the cops at point-blank range with a loud weapon, yet the other cop will merely keep aiming at the player, provided the player is in close weapon range, hasn't suppressed the other cop and is not aiming at him. The GenSecs at the beginning of transport heists do not have the engage attitude and cannot be suppressed, so if you are in close range they will never shoot unless aimed at.
There is one other condition that also causes enemies to shoot, which differs from the others as the enemy will not hit the player: If a criminal was visible to an enemy at one point, and then becomes neither visible nor nearly-visible, the enemy will shoot at the last known position 2/3 seconds (when running/stationary) after the last time the player was fully visible. Basically, enemies will shoot at you after taking cover (even if they have no other reason to fire). During stealth, this condition has no effect most of the time, because any enemy capable of arresting criminals will use his phone immediately after losing line of sight without firing a single shot. Gangsters and FBIs however cannot arrest players and thus may fire during stealth even without other reasons. The time when the player was fully visible is not updated when the player walks out of the visible range despite the enemy knowing the precise location of the player at all times. Thus to avoid enemies shooting, walk out of visibility range without breaking line of sight, then wait 2-3 seconds.
During stealth, breaking line of sight while an enemy capable of arresting has decided to shoot makes him never call the function that stops the order to fire. If the player gets into his line of sight again, he will never stop firing until the player gives him a reason to fire and then removes that reason while staying in line of sight (say, by aiming at him for a split second). This has some odd effects, as the enemy will shoot at any civilian, enemy or corpse if he doesn't see any player (without dealing damage to anyone however).
During stealth, enemies capable of arresting don't aim at you when you are farther than 15 m. If your detection risk is too low so they can't see you (due to the nearly-visible check, this is only a problem if the vertical distance exceeds 3 m), they will ignore you as well, though shouting will get their attention.
Unless you intend to shoot an enemy, do not aim at him. Enemies may decide against shooting, even during assaults, simply because they lack the aimed-at reason. Need to reload a weapon? Don't look at the enemy. Currently interacting with something? Don't look at the enemy.
I never noticed a difference between using weapons with low threat or high threat, despite using either for longer periods of time.
They should just tie threat to control freak and/or disturbing the peace, as well as the "meatshield" perk thingie for the enforcer that generates aggro on you.
Bah, I always mix up what threat's for. Either way the idea that it happens per shot is still why MG's have a lower threat than snipers.
Yeah, if you ran LMGs with sniper levels of suppression they'd do what LMGs are supposed to do: make everyone keep their heads down till someone can walk around their side to shoot them. It'd be amusing, but it would really break the game (except on deathwish, because gensec elites can't be suppressed).
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
What do you mean? It's not like they didn't change a lot of stuff for DW to be difficult, but I don't understand what do you mean by "unsurppressable".
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
What do you mean? It's not like they didn't change a lot of stuff for DW to be difficult, but I don't understand what do you mean by "unsurppressable".
Deathwish enemies can't be suppressed. IE they'll never dive to the side when you shoot near them. It's a decent chunk of the reason why Deathwish is so much harder. On lower difficulties if you shoot one guy in a group a few of his friends will usually stop shooting to try and find cover. On Deathwish they just keep up the pressure.
Which while it's a way to increase the difficulty I feel is kinda lame. Even if suppression is hardly a big deal.
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
It's only the greys and specials, tans and greens can still be suppressed. I'm kind of ok with it, because suppressing guys seems substantially less effective than just killing them (on other difficulties at least). Basically, it doesn't sell me as a mechanic that adds to the game. On the other hand, if you're going to remove it then just remove it from the game instead of this weird halfway thing that deathwish ends up as.
@Redthirst the GenSec elites will never dive for cover due to being shot or shot at. All the other regular enemies will.
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
It's only the greys and specials, tans and greens can still be suppressed. I'm kind of ok with it, because suppressing guys seems substantially less effective than just killing them (on other difficulties at least). Basically, it doesn't sell me as a mechanic that adds to the game. On the other hand, if you're going to remove it then just remove it from the game instead of this weird halfway thing that deathwish ends up as.
@Redthirst the GenSec elites will never dive for cover due to being shot or shot at. All the other regular enemies will.
Never actually used it. I mostly aim for the kill. The thing that annoys me is that with my R93 I can't kill shields through shields with one shot anymore. Tazers also take two shots to die.
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
It's only the greys and specials, tans and greens can still be suppressed. I'm kind of ok with it, because suppressing guys seems substantially less effective than just killing them (on other difficulties at least). Basically, it doesn't sell me as a mechanic that adds to the game. On the other hand, if you're going to remove it then just remove it from the game instead of this weird halfway thing that deathwish ends up as.
@Redthirst the GenSec elites will never dive for cover due to being shot or shot at. All the other regular enemies will.
Never actually used it. I mostly aim for the kill. The thing that annoys me is that with my R93 I can't kill shields through shields with one shot anymore. Tazers also take two shots to die.
The new sniper rifle may fix both of those issues, depending on build and what attachments it gets. Sometime tomorrow the actual results should be out. That said, I've found that the R-93 is just not as good on deathwish as either the rattlesnake or thanatos. The rattlesnake does a better job of taking out the regular guys, the thanatos handles shields and dozers better. Your secondary can take up the slack and then some for the weak spot you created.
Deathwish being unsurppressable really annoys me. Changing the rules of the game that much for difficulty feels really cheap.
It's only the greys and specials, tans and greens can still be suppressed. I'm kind of ok with it, because suppressing guys seems substantially less effective than just killing them (on other difficulties at least). Basically, it doesn't sell me as a mechanic that adds to the game. On the other hand, if you're going to remove it then just remove it from the game instead of this weird halfway thing that deathwish ends up as.
@Redthirst the GenSec elites will never dive for cover due to being shot or shot at. All the other regular enemies will.
Never actually used it. I mostly aim for the kill. The thing that annoys me is that with my R93 I can't kill shields through shields with one shot anymore. Tazers also take two shots to die.
The new sniper rifle may fix both of those issues, depending on build and what attachments it gets. Sometime tomorrow the actual results should be out. That said, I've found that the R-93 is just not as good on deathwish as either the rattlesnake or thanatos. The rattlesnake does a better job of taking out the regular guys, the thanatos handles shields and dozers better. Your secondary can take up the slack and then some for the weak spot you created.
The good thing about R93 is that it gives me some room for mistakes. If I miss the headshot on GenSec Elite, I will still kill him. Also, I think that Rattlesnake is worse against Dozers than R93. I would get Thanatos, but the problem is that I play as MM with Pistol Messiah, so my secondary is Stryk, which is not good on DW, but it has nice burst damage, even without pistol skills. But at the same time, I can't really use it against everything, so I need a good primary.
Surely Stryk's not terrible on DW now Gunslinger boosts it to 40 damage? You'd have to dedicate points to it but it should work fine.
I would assume. But I don't really see myself finding 12 points to put into Gunslinger. Need to think about it, but seems fairly unlikely. I have a pretty tight build, with heavy investment into MM and Ghost to be useful in both stealth and loud.
I believe the breakpoints to aim for in DW are different since enemies have more HP/lower headshot multipliers. 40 is probably not really sufficient above Overkill.
I believe the breakpoints to aim for in DW are different since enemies have more HP/lower headshot multipliers. 40 is probably not really sufficient above Overkill.
They are, best source for damage information and breakpoints is this spreadsheet.
edit: 60 is usually my target, but its hard to get to
As much as I would like a Thompson from this pack, I bet they will eventually have one with it anyway. Maybe something like "Cops and Robbers" with a Thompson, BAR, Colt Police Special, and maybe a sawed-off shotgun secondary? Plus a fedora "mask" and broken bottle melee weapon for good measure.
I gotta say I dislike them binding achievements to the DLC weapons modifications
so I have to use a shitty unmodified version of this gun for dozens of missions to make it usable?
Yeah fuck that my AMR is maxxed out on everything.
There's a Steam Achievement Manager that you can use to unlock achievements (It works in almost all games.....except the first Dungeon Defenders and I think Spiral Knights.) I used it for the TF2 class stuff way back when, no ill effects.Sorta cheating, but if you end up in a game where someone is hacking and you end up with a ton of money or easily obtainable achievements, it's much less harmful to just unlock the achievements and play the game instead of jumping through odd hoops and taking detours or having a moron ruin your stealth run.
If I can't mod the Patchett into an E-11 or the Broomstick into a DL-44, I'm uninstalling.
NEO|Phyte on
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Aaaaaand the gunslinger perk doesn't work properly with Akimbo, adding 7.5 damage. I'm going to assume this is a bug.
Redesigned "Gunslinger": it now gives a flat 15 damage bonus instead of 50% damage bonus to pistols
So thats 15 dmg for a Akimbo weapon i presume.
=\ This is good because they apparently buffed? the damage for deagle and bronco and most pistols didn't get more than 15 dmg increase from the perk anyways. Apparently the Stryk does 40 dmg now
Posts
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
And some of the lessons learned with it go forth in building lMGs still
1200 ROF on the MG42. :bzz:
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so I have to use a shitty unmodified version of this gun for dozens of missions to make it usable?
Yeah fuck that my AMR is maxxed out on everything.
that's about right
With all the horrifying mutant Mosins out there I'd be more shocked if they didn't let you.
That's why the Nagant's got like, twice the amount of threat compared to the machine gun in the same pack.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Not so sure about it. But if it will, it will be useful.
That's a mechanics thing. Threat is generated with every shot so if MGs shared threat levels with snipers you'd be incapable of firing a burst without every cop turning to blast you away.
The long guide has a, predictably, long description of the targeting algorithm that I'll quote below. The short version is: cops shoot the most recent alert (and then pick by distance). If you generated an alert they're in range of, they're shooting you till another one pops up. Threat doesn't matter, silencers only reduce the radius of the alert (although they reduce it a lot).
They should just tie threat to control freak and/or disturbing the peace, as well as the "meatshield" perk thingie for the enforcer that generates aggro on you.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
What do you mean? It's not like they didn't change a lot of stuff for DW to be difficult, but I don't understand what do you mean by "unsurppressable".
Deathwish enemies can't be suppressed. IE they'll never dive to the side when you shoot near them. It's a decent chunk of the reason why Deathwish is so much harder. On lower difficulties if you shoot one guy in a group a few of his friends will usually stop shooting to try and find cover. On Deathwish they just keep up the pressure.
Which while it's a way to increase the difficulty I feel is kinda lame. Even if suppression is hardly a big deal.
@Redthirst the GenSec elites will never dive for cover due to being shot or shot at. All the other regular enemies will.
Never actually used it. I mostly aim for the kill. The thing that annoys me is that with my R93 I can't kill shields through shields with one shot anymore. Tazers also take two shots to die.
The good thing about R93 is that it gives me some room for mistakes. If I miss the headshot on GenSec Elite, I will still kill him. Also, I think that Rattlesnake is worse against Dozers than R93. I would get Thanatos, but the problem is that I play as MM with Pistol Messiah, so my secondary is Stryk, which is not good on DW, but it has nice burst damage, even without pistol skills. But at the same time, I can't really use it against everything, so I need a good primary.
I would assume. But I don't really see myself finding 12 points to put into Gunslinger. Need to think about it, but seems fairly unlikely. I have a pretty tight build, with heavy investment into MM and Ghost to be useful in both stealth and loud.
edit: 60 is usually my target, but its hard to get to
You can beat people to death with both the american flag and a german hand grenade. Also bayonets now exist and the first one is on the Mosin.
I admit, a Canadian flag would be a lot funnier.
There's a Steam Achievement Manager that you can use to unlock achievements (It works in almost all games.....except the first Dungeon Defenders and I think Spiral Knights.) I used it for the TF2 class stuff way back when, no ill effects.Sorta cheating, but if you end up in a game where someone is hacking and you end up with a ton of money or easily obtainable achievements, it's much less harmful to just unlock the achievements and play the game instead of jumping through odd hoops and taking detours or having a moron ruin your stealth run.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Gage Historical Pack
General
Synchronization changes
Improved the synchronization in general. You should now experience less synchronization issues when drop-in joining
Skills and perks
Sound
Level
So thats 15 dmg for a Akimbo weapon i presume.
=\ This is good because they apparently buffed? the damage for deagle and bronco and most pistols didn't get more than 15 dmg increase from the perk anyways. Apparently the Stryk does 40 dmg now
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