[Computer Build Thread] - What happens if I stick my screwdriver th- *bzzt*

ThirithThirith Registered User regular
Welcome to Part Shoppers Anonymous the Penny Arcade Computer Build Thread!
(this OP is shamelessly stolen/modified from our missing overlord alecthar (via Jebus314), who may or may not be suffering heat stroke from quadfired R9 290X's)

This is your one stop source of all things regarding the purchasing and assembling of computer hardware. We do our best to provide advice about component choice, shopping for components, assembling the PC itself, and even a little bit of troubleshooting for new builds (if you're having issues). To my knowledge no forumer has ever left with a non functioning build. We'll get you there! All at a measly 250% of your original budget!

You're looking at me funny, so I can tell you have some questions. I invite you to stay a while, and listen.

"Why should I build my own computer when I could just have a bunch of underpaid assembly line workers do it for me?"
  • Knowledge: Building your own computer is a learning experience. To start with, you'll probably end up doing a lot of research on the current state of consumer computing hardware, along with learning a bit about how various computer components work within a complete system. You'll also gain valuable knowledge about the actual assembly of a PC, something that definitely comes in handy if you find yourself doing family tech support.
  • Quality: PCs from companies like Dell and HP are built cheaply. Sometimes this isn't a huge issue. Intel, for example, doesn't sell a separate "from the junk pile" line of CPUs. Hard drives are generally of fairly consistent quality among manufacturers. However, depending on the PC, you may end up with a fairly anemic, or even cruddy, generic PSU, along with motherboards that are generally pretty limited in their flexibility and feature-set, and don't even get me started on the cases they use. Building your own PC gives you complete control over the quality of the components you use.
  • Flexibility: A prebuilt PC sometimes comes with proprietary components, or in a case with a proprietary form factor with a weird sized PSU. When you build your own PC, you can select the components with an eye towards whatever degree of flexibility or upgrade-ability you deem appropriate. Because retail component design adheres to certain standards, you end up with a more modular system that can be changed more easily.
  • Value: When it comes to a PC with real horsepower, manufacturers believe we're willing to pay a serious premium. Building your own Gaming (or Workstation) PC almost always saves you significant amounts of money.

With all that said, I want to highlight a very important point. If all you need to do with a computer is browse the internet, consume media, and use productivity software like MS Office, there's admittedly little reason not to buy a pre-built machine. Because of the economy of scale, you will almost always get a higher specced computer for cheaper if your budget is less than $400 or so. Quality can still sometimes be an issue, and you won't gain any knowledge, but cheap computers are probably a better deal pre-built.

"You've convinced me to build my own, what's inside the box again?"
In general there are 7 main components to a PC. I will briefly explain what each one is, and give you a little bit of info about the important details to look out for. Don't worry if this seems complicated, or seems to be lacking information, as this is just an overview. Once you post in the thread your fellow forumers will be there to make sure you have everything sorted out before you buy! If you want to know more there are many great resources online, but a great place to start is our very own Alecthar's blog.
  • CPU: This is the central processing unit. It is the heart of your PC build and is what controls how quickly your computer can perform various tasks. There are only 2 manufacturers (AMD and Intel), and these days Intel is dominating. Pro-tip, over the years CPUs are generally tracked by their architecture (which alludes to how they are designed) and each unique architecture is given a name (Newest are haswell for intel, and Jaguar for amd). There are a multitude of different specs for CPUs, but it's nigh impossible to use them for comparison across manufactures and often times even across different architectures. Generally you will want to go to a place like Tom's Hardware and look actual measured comparisons between the chips to decide.
    . . . . If you're looking for high end performance, and the best bang for your buck, you will also want to look out for unlocked CPUs that allow for overclocking. These days it is a very painless process, and can easily give you a 10-30% performance boost for the cost of a bigger heatsink. For intel CPUs, model numbers that end in a K allow overclocking.
  • GPU: This is the graphical processing unit. As the name implies it controls how pretty things will look, and what games you can play. The first important decision for your GPU is onboard versus discrete. These days Intel and AMD are offering combined CPU/GPU chips that are really pretty good. For everything besides gaming and graphic intensive work, these combined chips offer the best performance at the cheapest price. If you're building a HTPC for example this is definitely the way to go. Interestingly this is the one area where AMD is leading, as their APU line (their terminology for the combined CPU/GPU) tends to have better GPU performance with similar CPU performance than the corresponding intel products. A top of the line AMD APU will be good enough to stream any video content, watch blurays, and even play some older games at moderate settings.
    . . . . If, however, you are looking to game or do a lot of video editing/other graphics intensive work, then a discrete graphics card is the way to go. For the purposes of gaming, the rest of your system is mainly an effort to get out of your video card's way. The price of a solid video card reflects that; for gaming PCs the video card will be the most expensive single component you purchase. For discrete GPUs there are again 2 manufacturers, AMD (formally ATI) and Nvidia. Unlike CPUs the GPU race remains relatively tight, and there's really good deals to be had with either brand. To make things more confusing AMD and Nvidia don't actually sell graphics cards themselves, instead the sell the designs (or base hardware) to other companies who build them and sell them to consumers. This means that for any given GPU model (say the Nvidia GTX 760), there will be several different vendors selling that exact model (like this GTX 760 sold by EVGA). Different vendors can have different coolers, different amounts of overclocking, and different build quality, so be careful with who the exact card is coming from.
  • Motherboard: The motherboard is the complex circuitry that connects all of your fancy parts together. Buying a motherboard is all about quality, compatibility, and options. The two most important compatibility issues are getting the right socket for your CPU, and getting the right size for your case. Whatever CPU you are interested in getting should have a corresponding socket number (like LGA 1150 for Haswell based CPUs), and you absolutely must get a motherboard with that socket. Motherboards also generally come in a few different sizes (or form factors), with the most common being: ATX, micro-ATX, mini-ATX, and mini-ITX. The key here is to make sure that you Case specifically says it is compatible with the form factor you choose. For quality purposes you generally want to stick to the 4 main manufacturers: MSI, ASUS, ASRock, and Gigabyte. Finally, it's all about the options. Make a list of everything that you want to hook up to your pc and what type of connection it needs (USB 3.0 vs 2.0, HDMI vs DVI vs Display Port, esata, ect...) and find yourself a motherboard that has all the necessary connections. Other things to consider are SLI/crossfire compatibility (which allows you to run 2 GPUs simultaneously for Nvidia or AMD cards respectively), PCI-E 3.0 vs 2.0 (and x16 or x8), CPU overclocking compatible, onboard GPU compatible, soundcard capabilities, and Ethernet capabilities.
  • Memory: This is often referred to as the RAM or Random Access Memory, and it controls how many things you can do at once. These days there are basically 3 rules to follow when buying RAM. (1) Buy DDR3: Only legacy sockets from AMD and Intel support DDR2. This is a compatibility check with the motherboard so always look at the motherboard specs to verify, but almost everything these days uses DDR3. (2) Only 1 RAM specification is worth worrying about: 1600Mhz. Slower and you may seem some changes in performance for a cheaper price, and faster is mostly just a waste of money. Timings largely mean nothing. (3) Buy 4-8 GB and as many DIMMS (or sticks) as channels on your motherboard. So if your motherboard supports 2 channel memory, get 2 sticks of 4GB Ram (for 8GB total). RAM is cheap so lean towards more rather than less, but for most people anything more than 8 GB will be wasted.
  • Hard Disk Drive/Solid State Drive: This is where all of your software and data is stored. If you're budget can swing it the most effective setup is to use a smaller SSD (60-120 GB) for your programs and OS, and a larger HDD (500 GB - 4 TB) for media storage. Not all SSDs and not all HDDs are created equal. For HDDs the spindle speed (typically 5400, 7200, and 10000 RPMs) dictates how quickly you will be able to access your data, with higher RPMs giving faster access. For purely data storage the speed tends not to matter that much, but for programs/games loading will be much faster. Any SSD will be far quicker than even the best HDDs. Most importantly for both you want something that is reliable, so check the comments/reviews for any particular model. Just keep in mind that every single model ever created will have some small number of drives that fail and those will be the bulk of the people leaving comments.
  • PSU: This is the power supply unit, and as the name implies it powers your PC. There are 3 basic factors to consider for a PSU: modular/non-modular, wattage, and quality. A non-modular PSU will have all of the cables permanently attached and can be a pain to keep organized compared to being able to remove unnecessary cables. Wattage is the amount of power your PSU can supply and you generally want your computer to run close to but not at the maximum rating for your PSU. To see what that would be before you buy your PSU, just find any online wattage calculator, put in the parts you want to use, and viola. Finally there is the quality, which is sadly hard to determine and doesn't respond well to the kind of "pop it in our test rig and benchmark it" style of reviewing that most PC component review sites tend to favor. Alecthar's blog has a nice rundown on good review sites and a good vs bad listing of manufacturers.
  • Case: This is where you put all those things above. Don't underestimate the importance of a good case. A Good cable management system and layout can make building a PC a vastly superior experience, as well as giving longevity to your build through superior heat management. Also that shit should look badass. The only requirement though is that you find a case that is large enough to house all of your components (this is not a trick, often times GPUs, PSUs, certain types of memory, and some optical drives will not fit in a particular case), and can accept the form factor for the motherboard used.
  • Other: This is just a list of other parts to keep in mind, that you may or may not need. Additional fans, optical drive, soundcard, wifi card (or usb dongle), monitor, keyboard, mouse, cables (fan cables, sata cables, ect...), aftermarket CPU heatsink (necessary for overclocking), and zipties (or other cable management device).

"Ok I know what a PC is now, but where do I start?"
Here are a few questions you should ask yourself when you're ready to start researching parts for your new PC. Once you have some answers to these questions, post them in this thread and others will jump in to fill in the gaps and get you well on your way to completing your order! Don't be intimidated if you don't know any of the answers though, as any questions (no matter how basic) are always welcome. In general though, the more information we have about what you want and how much you're willing to pay to get it, the better the advice you'll get.
  • What kind of computer do you need? The 4 basic categories are: standard gaming PC, HTPC, server, and a serious Workstation.
  • What's your budget for this project?
  • What needs to be included in that budget? Do you need a monitor, keyboard and mouse to go with it? Are there components from a previous PC that you are carrying over to the new build? What about an operating system (like Windows 8.1)?
  • What are your performance needs? For games, what resolution do you game at, and what kind of performance do you want to see there? For professional tasks, what are you doing and what kind of numbers would you like to see?
  • Do you have any partiality towards specific manufacturers, like Intel/AMD, AMD/NVIDIA, or perhaps specific vendors?
  • Do you have any specific needs? That is, are you looking for quiet operation, small form factor, significant upgrade-ability, or other specific features?

"I'm totes ready to buy, but everyone keeps posting this PC partpicker thing. Where do I actually get my stuff?"

US
There are a number of solid online purchasing options available to US consumers. My personal favorite is Newegg, though there are other options like Tiger Direct, and (of course) Amazon. Brick and mortar buyers can find some components at big box retailers like Best Buy and Fry's, though I've found that prices from online retailers are significantly better than these stores. The exception to that seems to be Microcenter, which often has great deals on processors and motherboards in particular.

Canada
From the veteran Canadian shopper an_alt:
when it comes to Canadian supplies, NCIX.ca used to be the undisputed champion. So far as I know, they're still a good company, but they didn't have the best price for any part I saw. Newegg.ca usually had the best prices including shipping on my current build, vuugo.com often had good prices though their website seems a bit sketchy, and directcanada.com has some good prices and worked fine for me in the past.

Some more recent opinions:
Re: first post -- for the 'Canadian shops' bit, you should add memoryexpress.com to that list (not sure how they are for mail order, but as an in-the-flesh shop, at least, they're great).
BouwsT wrote: »
I used Memory Express for my last build, they are actually really great so far for their mail orders. Also, their price beat is stronger than newegg.ca (10% of difference, rather than just a straight match). I would definitely recommend them for Canadian buyers, at least to check out.

UK
Online retailers in the UK include Ebuyer, which apparently has a wide selection of components, Novatech, which also does custom systems and apparently has some fans in UK PC forums, and dabs.com, a site recommend by our very own Big Isy, who cited their frequent free shipping/free game deals.

Australia
Our very own Tef put together a very thorough buying guide for Australians:
Tef wrote:
Online retailers (Australia-wide)
www.pccasegear.com - Based in Melbourne, these guys are as close to an Australian Newegg as you will find. PCcasegear are known for their reliable service and good RMA (returning faulty equipment) policies. They have a somewhat decent range of equipment, for Australia and while generally pretty cheap, there certainly are cheaper options out there. For people in Melbourne, you can also visit their store front and pick up the parts personally.

www.msy.com.au - A cheaper alternative to PCcasegear that is still reasonably reliable. MSY does suffer from a limited range and volume of stock on occasion. As of October 2011, they do not have a delivery system in place (in progress, according to MSY) so you will have to pick up the parts from their brick and mortar shops. Fortunately, they have numerous store fronts around the country, so finding one nearby shouldn't be too hard to do. Be aware that when you're shopping online make sure you set your store location to the store that you'll be picking the parts up from. MSY filter their displayed products based on what shop you've selected and it's very annoying to get to the checkout and realise all your parts are only available in far north Queensland.

Other Australia-based Online Retailers
www.mwave.com.au www.megabuy.com.au www.umart.com.au - These are some other notable budget PC shops. They'll ship anywhere domestically and are usually competitively priced. Do note that they're budget resellers (particularly in the case of megabuy) and their customer support and shipping status/timeframes may not always be as great as what you'll find from MSY/PCcasegear.

International Purchasing
An option exists to purchase parts overseas and ship them in yourself, thus avoiding the mark-up from Aussie vendors. www.priceusa.com.au is the only vendor the writer has experience with and therefore is the only one this writer is prepared to recommend with confidence. There are several caveats associated with international orders, namely that support/returns will be more difficult due to distances and there is a potential for longer lead-times on orders (though this is not always the case). Recommendations for overseas shipping would be that you don't order cases and possibly PSUs from overseas, as the associated hikes in shipping costs make this expensive (it should go without saying that you should do your own research on this point though, as it may be more cost effective depending on where you can buy domestically).

There also exists the option of organising a deal through the PA forums. This will be more difficult as it will require the forumer to takes reception of your goods and then ship them to you themselves. You will need to organise such a deal between yourselves and please be aware that this is an imposition on people and you certainly shouldn't expect people to firstly jump at the chance to help you out and secondly do this for you without some kind of repayment (*cough*steam wish lists*cough*). Moral of the story is that it may be an option for you, but don't count on it. It maybe be worth your while sending an extremely polite and well-written PM to the lovely JWashke (his PA forum handle) as he has mentioned that he MAY be available to help out his poor Australian brethren.

Purchase Support and Services
www.staticice.com.au and www.ausprices.com are two good price comparison sites that you can use to find who's selling what and for how much. The former is probably the highest quality of the two; just make sure you're looking at the Australian version (i.e. .au at the end)

While ostensibly a forum for PC overlockers, forums.overclockers.com.au has a surprisingly good quality sub forum relating to the state of PC part purchasing in Australia. They are a good location for solid advice on retailers (after PA, of course!). The author recommends against the Whirlpool forums, as their wiki isn't really up to date and the quality of posts is, shall we way, subpar. Their wikis and forums sections on networking and all things internet are fantastic, however, and are highly recommended for questions pertaining these matters.

Failing all that, send a mention or a PM towards Tef or chrishallett83, both Australian forumers, who are usually more than happy to offer advice.

Below are some additional resources to help you out. Welcome to PC building!

Quick Links to Alecthar's Component Guides:
Processors and Motherboards
Video Cards
Memory
HDDs and SSDs
PSUs and Cases

Alecthar's List of Good Online Resources:
Anandtech - A great site with in depth reviews on loads of tech.
Tom's Hardware - Not my favorite site in the world, but their monthly roundups of SSDs, CPUs, and GPUs are useful, and they have some good comparison tools.
[H]ardOCP - Solid PSU reviews, and also some solid motherboard and video card reviews.
jonnyguru - Basically some of the best PSU reviews out there.
Overclock.net - One of my favorite non-PA forums. There's loads and loads of good info here, from optimizing SSDs to overclocking to in-depth information on motherboard VRM setups.

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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Thirith on
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Posts

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Reposted, with some edits, from the last thread:

    I've had a look at what choosemypc.net suggests within the price range I'm looking at, with the proviso that prices and availabilities won't be identical here. (The shop I generally get my wares from is https://www.digitec.ch/en.) I'm planning to build a machine that's likely to handle anything I throw at it over the next couple of years, with only minor upgrades.

    In general, how does the following look? I've also got some specific questions, which I'm bolding.



    *CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor

    *CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BK 78.1 CFM CPU Cooler
    --> I'm not planning for extreme overclocking; does this cooler make sense?

    *Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
    --> This doesn't seem to be available at my end; would e.g. the ASUS X99-S be an alternative?

    *Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
    --> If I go for 16GB, should I get 2x 8GB or 4x 16?

    *Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

    *Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

    *Video Card: most likely a 970.

    *Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case
    --> Will this fit the motherboard I'm considering?

    *Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
    --> Not available; since I'm considering SLI at a later stage, would be quiet! POWER ZONE (850W) be an option?

    *Optical Drive: Any Blu-ray drive/DVD writer, really.

    *Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)

    Do these (or corresponding) components come with everything I'd need, i.e. screws, cooling paste, cables, or would it make sense to order e.g. additional cables?[/quote]

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Can't say I understand the desire to go with LGA2011. Seems like you're spending more for not much benefit. Get a bigger SSD, and a power supply from SeaSonic.

    steam_sig.png
    chrishallett83
  • toloveistorebel toloveistorebel Impressive. Most impressive. Central FLRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Thirith wrote: »
    Reposted, with some edits, from the last thread:

    I've had a look at what choosemypc.net suggests within the price range I'm looking at, with the proviso that prices and availabilities won't be identical here. (The shop I generally get my wares from is https://www.digitec.ch/en.) I'm planning to build a machine that's likely to handle anything I throw at it over the next couple of years, with only minor upgrades.

    In general, how does the following look? I've also got some specific questions, which I'm bolding.



    *CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor

    *CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE_BK 78.1 CFM CPU Cooler
    --> I'm not planning for extreme overclocking; does this cooler make sense?

    *Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
    --> This doesn't seem to be available at my end; would e.g. the ASUS X99-S be an alternative?

    *Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
    --> If I go for 16GB, should I get 2x 8GB or 4x 16?

    *Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

    *Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

    *Video Card: most likely a 970.

    *Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case
    --> Will this fit the motherboard I'm considering?

    *Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
    --> Not available; since I'm considering SLI at a later stage, would be quiet! POWER ZONE (850W) be an option?

    *Optical Drive: Any Blu-ray drive/DVD writer, really.

    *Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)

    Do these (or corresponding) components come with everything I'd need, i.e. screws, cooling paste, cables, or would it make sense to order e.g. additional cables?

    First off is there a reason you're wanting to go with an X99 setup vs an i5 or i7 on Z97? Not saying you shouldn't, but it won't really help in games. But if you're really wanting to spend the money on it then go for it. Definitely a CPU and motherboard choice that will last you a long time and be able to do anything else you ever want to do.

    I can't comment on that cooler as I've not really looked at stuff from Phanteks much. But if you're wanting to get into to overclocking with this CPU (which you should because they overclock like champs) you should really consider going with a closed loop water cooler. I've heard you need something at least in the 240mm range as those 6 cores put off some serious heat.

    Being that X99 is all high end stuff I would imagine that almost any of those motherboards will be fine. As long as it ticks all the boxes you want ticked then it should be good.

    For memory you should really consider going with at least 16GB in a 4x4 setup. One big draw of X99 is the quad channel memory support. But it requires 4 sticks. If you don't go with 4 sticks then you've negated one of the main selling points of X99.

    Storage looks fine.

    Video card should be great. Definitely look at going SLI as soon as you can. Grest SLI support is one of the nice things about X99. You have 40 PCI-E lanes to work with with that CPU! Don't let then go to waste! As a bit if personal preference as well: why not just go with a 980? if you're building such a beast of a machine, and you want multiple GPUs, just go with the best I'd say. The grab another one later on. If its a money issue then I suggest dropping down to the 5820K or just going with a Z97 setup. You would have a lot more more money to play with then.

    Great case. It will fit everything you need just fine.

    PSU I'm not really sure about those two. I think you'd be a lot better served by just getting a good Seasonic and calling it a day. Everything I've seen about Be Quiet! points to them being very overpriced for the quality. And I don't see many people recommending EVGA PSUs. Seasonic is top notch and probably not any more expensive than either of those. I'm not entirely sure how much wattage you'll need for X99 overclocking. I'd imagine 850 should be good with plans for OCing and SLI.

    If you keep your build exactly as you have it though, everything will be just fine and there are no conflictions that I can see. You might want to grab some Arctic Silver themal paste or something similar. Keep us updated!

    toloveistorebel on
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Thanks for the feedback, toloveistorebel! I have to admit, I basically just took what choosemypc gave me and put it in that post; I don't really know what Z97 vs X99 means, for instance.

    Some follow-up points:
    - Thanks for your comment re: water cooling. I'll look into it. When you say 240mm, do you mean something like this one (two fans of 120-140mm)?
    - Is the X99 preferable for any SLI setup (i.e. 2x, 3x)? I wouldn't go over 2x.
    - The Seasonic PSUs look good; I'll check out what those cost.

    Anyway, that's it. Again, thanks for the help!

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • toloveistorebel toloveistorebel Impressive. Most impressive. Central FLRegistered User regular
    Yeah if you don't know that you need X99 then you don't want it really. Take a look at this build:

    PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zvxpFT
    Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zvxpFT/by_merchant/

    CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
    CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Newegg)
    Memory: Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($64.00 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($203.04 @ NCIX US)
    Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($356.13 @ Newegg)
    Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Directron)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G-750 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.99 @ Amazon)
    Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.89 @ Directron)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
    Total: $1371.99
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-21 07:31 EST-0500

    Its not prices from your region or retailer but that's a great build to start with. Probably SEVERAL hundreds less than the X99 build. No sense spending $900+ on the CPU/mobo alone and the extra cost of DDR4 when you can get the same gaming performance from a $350 CPU/mobo. If you're not wanting to overclock at all we can knock another $100 or so off of that by dropping down to a non overclockable CPU, a slightly cheaper motherboard, and getting rid of the liquid cooler.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Cool, thanks. Is the jump from i5-4xxx to i5-5xxx something that simply doesn't make a huge difference with current games? And what about DDR3 vs DDR4? I'm happy paying a bit more to have a more future-proof PC, but I wouldn't want to pay more just because I can and I'm ignorant as to what really makes a difference when it comes to games.

    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Can't say I understand the desire to go with LGA2011. Seems like you're spending more for not much benefit. Get a bigger SSD, and a power supply from SeaSonic.
    Not a desire; so far I've always bought prebuilt PCs and occasionally upgraded my video card and very rarely the CPU, so I simply don't know what kind of hardware makes sense for someone who primarily plays games and what's just there for the bragging rights.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • toloveistorebel toloveistorebel Impressive. Most impressive. Central FLRegistered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Thanks for the feedback, toloveistorebel! I have to admit, I basically just took what choosemypc gave me and put it in that post; I don't really know what Z97 vs X99 means, for instance.

    Some follow-up points:
    - Thanks for your comment re: water cooling. I'll look into it. When you say 240mm, do you mean something like this one (two fans of 120-140mm)?
    - Is the X99 preferable for any SLI setup (i.e. 2x, 3x)? I wouldn't go over 2x.
    - The Seasonic PSUs look good; I'll check out what those cost.

    Anyway, that's it. Again, thanks for the help!

    Oh you're welcome! And to answer those questions specifically...

    Yes 240mm is just a radiator that fits 2 120mm fan . Likewise a larger and better performing 280mm rad fits 2 140mm fans.

    I would say that X99 would only be useful above 2 cards in SLI/Crossfire. Even then the benefits may be small until you get to 4 cards. For normal 2 card configurations Z97 would be fine. (Z97 or X99 are referring to a certain set of Intel chipsets that come on those motherboards. So Haswell-E CPUs require a motherboard with a LGA 2011-3 socket which with have the X99 chipset. A normal Haswell i5 or i7 will require an LGA 1155 socket which will include some other chipsets such as H97 (more budget oriented usually) or Z97 (more bells and whistles and built for overclocking.

    Djeet
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Cool, thanks. Is the jump from i5-4xxx to i5-5xxx something that simply doesn't make a huge difference with current games? And what about DDR3 vs DDR4? I'm happy paying a bit more to have a more future-proof PC, but I wouldn't want to pay more just because I can and I'm ignorant as to what really makes a difference when it comes to games.

    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Can't say I understand the desire to go with LGA2011. Seems like you're spending more for not much benefit. Get a bigger SSD, and a power supply from SeaSonic.
    Not a desire; so far I've always bought prebuilt PCs and occasionally upgraded my video card and very rarely the CPU, so I simply don't know what kind of hardware makes sense for someone who primarily plays games and what's just there for the bragging rights.

    Ahh, OK. It's not really worth it to go with LGA2011 for gaming - and not worth it for "future-proof" reasons either. I would check out the parts toloveistorebel recommended - or at least their equivalents (different brand) when it comes to motherboard/memory/GPU depending on what costs more/less in your country. On that site you posted there are some solid ASRock Z97 boards.

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  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Yeah, you only need the LGA2011 CPUs if you're running 3x or 4x Crossfire/SLI or need the extra HW threads without paying for a Xeon.

  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    Re: first post -- for the 'Canadian shops' bit, you should add memoryexpress.com to that list (not sure how they are for mail order, but as an in-the-flesh shop, at least, they're great).

    BouwsT
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Great, thanks for all the info - things are becoming a bit clearer now. I'm leaning towards the build suggested by @toloveistorebel ‌, with a couple of minor changes: 16GB (with the Z97, does 2x8GB or 4x4GB make most sense?), a large additional HD (I expect the lack of one was simple oversight) and an optical drive that can read Blu-ray. I'm also considering going 980 instead of 970, especially if I save a considerable amount on the other components compared to the build choosemypc gave me first, and with a view to later SLI I might bump up the PSU.

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  • Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    I think your best bet is to get the 2 x 8GB. That way you can add more later if you would like. I don't think there is any advantage to having 4 sticks with that setup though if I'm wrong, let me know. Otherwise, everything else sounds like the kind of computer I am dying to build.

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  • toloveistorebel toloveistorebel Impressive. Most impressive. Central FLRegistered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Great, thanks for all the info - things are becoming a bit clearer now. I'm leaning towards the build suggested by @toloveistorebel ‌, with a couple of minor changes: 16GB (with the Z97, does 2x8GB or 4x4GB make most sense?), a large additional HD (I expect the lack of one was simple oversight) and an optical drive that can read Blu-ray. I'm also considering going 980 instead of 970, especially if I save a considerable amount on the other components compared to the build choosemypc gave me first, and with a view to later SLI I might bump up the PSU.

    Yeah 16GB in two 8GB sticks is perfect. Z97 boards only support dual channel so there is not speed increase going to four sticks, just more capacity. I think I left the additional drive out just so you could pick your own at whatever capacity you wish. Doesn't really matter much there. Even though its more expensive and not the best "value" I like the idea of going with a 980. Especially since you're saving so much over the previous build. And be warned before you buy a BluRay drive that you will need to purchase software to be able to play discs correctly. Its a major pain but doable.

  • Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    I have to say, that BluRay thing is really annoying. Is it just Sony being greedy or is BluRay that much of a different animal than DVD? (Although now that I think about it, you used to have to have DVD software that may not have come with your computer).

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  • toloveistorebel toloveistorebel Impressive. Most impressive. Central FLRegistered User regular
    Its probably very similar to how DVDs used to be. Its just locked the heck down. The only good use I found for the BluRay drive in my old laptop was to rip each disc I had and then just re-encode it back into a watchable format. Was a pain but it was nice having everything digital. But man that mobile first gen i3 chugged on encoding that stuff.

  • BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    So anyone see that AMD is coming out with a open source answer to G-Sync? Pretty cool!

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/21/amds-answer-to-nvidia-g-sync-will-arrive-on-two-samsung-monito/

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  • SpherickSpherick Registered User regular
    So my wife's 2010 MacBook Pro finally bit the dust. She is looking at an alternative laptop (currently a MacBook Air), but I think I can get her something up to the same specs (if not better) for cheaper by buying a windows laptop (she is not against switching to Windows).

    Any thoughts - she doesn't do much other than Office suite, browse the web, play music and watch Netflix. Portability and good battery life are must.

    Some say that the Blood Angels are tainted: that they harbour a dark secret. I know this to be true. I have seen the infamous Death Company: wild-eyed and foam-mouthed berserkers who tear their enemies limb from limb, crush skulls with a single blow, snap spines and rip out inner organs. I have seen the Sanguinary Priests: the passing of blood filled chalices from lip to lip, heard their wracking lamentations of Sanguinus's death. I have watched their rituals: mighty warriors daubing their armour in the blood of their foes, heard them crying for vengeance against the enemies of the Emperor.
  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Great, thanks for all the info - things are becoming a bit clearer now. I'm leaning towards the build suggested by @toloveistorebel ‌, with a couple of minor changes: 16GB (with the Z97, does 2x8GB or 4x4GB make most sense?), a large additional HD (I expect the lack of one was simple oversight) and an optical drive that can read Blu-ray. I'm also considering going 980 instead of 970, especially if I save a considerable amount on the other components compared to the build choosemypc gave me first, and with a view to later SLI I might bump up the PSU.

    Yeah 16GB in two 8GB sticks is perfect. Z97 boards only support dual channel so there is not speed increase going to four sticks, just more capacity. I think I left the additional drive out just so you could pick your own at whatever capacity you wish. Doesn't really matter much there. Even though its more expensive and not the best "value" I like the idea of going with a 980. Especially since you're saving so much over the previous build. And be warned before you buy a BluRay drive that you will need to purchase software to be able to play discs correctly. Its a major pain but doable.

    I thought dual channel made pairing sticks important, but having more sticks would still increase bandwidth... I may not be totally clear on how RAM scales, guys...

    Regardless, I'm also running two 8GB sticks as well. I don't think there is a serious benefit to 4x4GB over 2x8GB.

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  • Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    My old job is selling used Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM 23" monitors. I'm really tempted to grab one to setup next to the TV so that when my wife is watching TV, I can still use the PC attached to it. I think this is the monitor. Now my question is, is there any reason not to get this for CDN$81 + tax? Like is 8ms too slow for occasional gaming? I'm pretty sure it's fine but I just wanted to see what people thought here.

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  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    Re: first post -- for the 'Canadian shops' bit, you should add memoryexpress.com to that list (not sure how they are for mail order, but as an in-the-flesh shop, at least, they're great).

    I used Memory Express for my last build, they are actually really great so far for their mail orders. Also, their price beat is stronger than newegg.ca (10% of difference, rather than just a straight match). I would definitely recommend them for Canadian buyers, at least to check out.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    @djmitchella‌ and @BouwsT‌ : I've added your comments to the first post. Hope that's okay!

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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Bloodycow wrote: »
    So anyone see that AMD is coming out with a open source answer to G-Sync? Pretty cool!

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/21/amds-answer-to-nvidia-g-sync-will-arrive-on-two-samsung-monito/

    I have to admit, the things AMD is doing with their GPUs like Mantle and now this are starting to make their cards more and more attractive.

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  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    I have never NOT had an nVidia card, but for the next build... Gawd, who knows? I mean, physX is pretty and all, but if I tank to 20 FPS with pretty physics, or can run at a solid 60 due to a genuinely good and open API, and FreeSync? That is certainly enticing.

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    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
    TOGSolid
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    My old job is selling used Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM 23" monitors. I'm really tempted to grab one to setup next to the TV so that when my wife is watching TV, I can still use the PC attached to it. I think this is the monitor. Now my question is, is there any reason not to get this for CDN$81 + tax? Like is 8ms too slow for occasional gaming? I'm pretty sure it's fine but I just wanted to see what people thought here.

    Ultrasharps are great monitors and while I can't speak to that particular one, my 2005 Ultrasharp is still going strong (I use it to watch Netflix while I game, a couple before 2011 I used it as my sole gaming monitor with no issues, even with its rather anemic 12 or 16ms refresh rate). I'd give it a go, assuming they're in good working order, but then I'm pretty far into the IPS camp as far as monitor panels go.

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  • SoggybiscuitSoggybiscuit At the edge of spacetime lies a path with no end.Registered User regular
    I don't even know why something like G-Sync or FreeSync wasn't included in the DisplayPort specification anyways.

    It's probably something that should be.

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  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    I don't even know why something like G-Sync or FreeSync wasn't included in the DisplayPort specification anyways.

    It's probably something that should be.

    It is, sort of. I don't really understand the details, but since DisplayPort 1.2a there has been something called adaptive-sync available which allows for variable refresh rates. AMD is saying, that Freesync will work with adaptice-sync, or is the same thing as adaptive-sync, or is built on adaptive-sync, or something like that. I don't really understand it but there is something built into displayport and it's apparently been a fixed standard since 2009 but is just now getting official release.

    edit - I guess I should have followed my own links. Here's a really good interview about the whole thing (link). Key quotes:
    Is it correct to say that FreeSync is a direct answer to Nvidia G-Sync?
    – The engineering timeline of the Radeon R9 and R7 Series, which feature Project FreeSync-compatible display controllers, establishes that FreeSync predates G-Sync by a healthy margin. Both technologies aim to deliver similar user benefits, but Project FreeSync will accomplish its goals with open industry standards that don’t require any licensing fees or contracts from participating parties. History has more or less proven that this strategy enables technologies to proliferate faster and cost less, and we think that’s the right way for everyone.
    Could you please explain the difference between AMD FreeSync and VESA Adaptive-Sync?
    – VESA DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync is a new component of the DisplayPort 1.2a specification that allows a graphics card to control the refresh rate of a display over a DisplayPort link. As it seems there is some confusion, I want to emphasize that DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync is not FreeSync. By itself, DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync is a building block that provides a standard framework a source device, e.g. a graphics card, can depend on to execute dynamic refresh rates.

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  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    So my current PC is slowly giving up the ghost, and I've decided to try my hand building my own for once. The build I'm thinking of is here (and any suggestions for improvement would be welcomed), but the main question I have is this;

    How much of a problem is an i3 processor likely to be? I've heard good things about them, especially for the budget of around £300 - 400 that I'm aiming for, but I also don't want to buy a new PC and immediately have it be obsolete due to only having a dual-core processor. Would bumping up to an i5 for an extra £50 be worth it, or would I get more benefit from taking that same £50 and adding in an SSD?

    Burnage on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Does anyone happen to know what part prices are like in Canada compared to the US and the UK? Since I have some bad video card problems I was thinking about making some... upgrades. Maybe throw a hot new nvidia card and an i7 at this bad boy. Treat him right.

    Hobnail wrote: »
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    So my current PC is slowly giving up the ghost, and I've decided to try my hand building my own for once. The build I'm thinking of is here (and any suggestions for improvement would be welcomed), but the main question I have is this;

    How much of a problem is an i3 processor likely to be? I've heard good things about them, especially for the budget of around £300 - 400 that I'm aiming for, but I also don't want to buy a new PC and immediately have it be obsolete due to only having a dual-core processor. Would bumping up to an i5 for an extra £50 be worth it, or would I get more benefit from taking that same £50 and adding in an SSD?

    The i3 would be fine, but I'd get a quadcore (and the SSD :P) if you can, as a few games are starting to stupidly outright require them (before retracting it in one case and TBD in another). i3's with hyperthreading should work if you can't or don't want to swing the i5, though.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Ed GrubermanEd Gruberman Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Tube wrote: »
    Does anyone happen to know what part prices are like in Canada compared to the US and the UK? Since I have some bad video card problems I was thinking about making some... upgrades. Maybe throw a hot new nvidia card and an i7 at this bad boy. Treat him right.

    An easy way to compare is pick out what you are looking for on pcpartpicker.com, then just put a "ca." at the beginning of your build url. I think that should work. Or at least I think that's what I've been doing

    Ed Gruberman on
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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Spherick wrote: »
    So my wife's 2010 MacBook Pro finally bit the dust. She is looking at an alternative laptop (currently a MacBook Air), but I think I can get her something up to the same specs (if not better) for cheaper by buying a windows laptop (she is not against switching to Windows).

    Any thoughts - she doesn't do much other than Office suite, browse the web, play music and watch Netflix. Portability and good battery life are must.

    I just bought a Lenovo Y50 and love it (outside of Win8). The Lenovo T60 I bought in ~2006 is still chugging along for my brother.

    Between the two Lenovos, I moved to Macbook. I went back to Lenovo after Apple told their users to get fucked and glued down their laptops.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Alright thread, I submit for your scrutiny my HTPC/Light Weight Gaming/Home File Server build:
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD A10-7850K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($148.98 @ OutletPC)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($69.97 @ NCIX US)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($99.99 @ Amazon)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.92 @ Directron)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.92 @ Directron)
    Case: Silverstone GD09B HTPC Case ($72.99 @ Directron)
    Power Supply: Corsair CSM 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Amazon)
    Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($53.98 @ OutletPC)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N250PCe 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($16.99 @ Amazon)
    Total: $887.70
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-22 15:12 EST-0500

    I was looking through NAS options and couldn't find anything that wasn't absurdly expensive and the entry level two bay options all look kinda underpowered and tbh, for the price of a low end two bay NAS and two hard drives I can just put better quality parts in my HTPC so I said fuck it and am going that route. Budget for the HTPC end was originally $500 US (and I even had hit my target budget!), but I rolled in another $400 accounting for the price of the NAS.

    The RAM looks overkill, but RAM speed affects the performance of those APUs and from what I've read they really like dual channel memory. Also, I couldn't find a 2X2 on pcpartpicker which was what I originally wanted since 8 GB is super silly in this.

    I am definitely not quite satisfied with the case yet so if someone has a better suggestion I'll definitely take one. I saw a couple other HTPC cases in this budget range that have more hard drive slots but they sounded like cheaply made shit (as in, the holes for the drive mounting screws aren't drilled right levels of ass) judging by the reviews.

    So yeah, nitpick away! No part is sacred in this and I am open to suggestion!

    TOGSolid on
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  • HamurabiHamurabi AmsterdamRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Any deals on a GTX 770?

    Wanna get a second one in preparation for GTA5 come January.

    I haven't followed prices on 770's but $260 (after rebate) seems pretty good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121770&cm_re=gtx_770-_-14-121-770-_-Product

    MSI flavor for ten bucks more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127741&cm_re=gtx_770-_-14-127-741-_-Product

    A lot of them, especially the 4GB models, seem to still be in the $350 range, which is crazy to me since you can get a 970 for that.

    So actually, looking at the benchmark comparisons on Anandtech, it seems like a single 970 is a better way to go than a second GTX 770 -- if only for the extra VRAM.

    I've started playing Shadow of Mordor, and it seems like the extra 2GB of VRAM would help to iron out some of the stuttering I'm getting on my 4670K (4.1ghz)/8GB 1600mhz/GTX 770 box.

  • HamurabiHamurabi AmsterdamRegistered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Also: just so I'm understanding this clearly...

    Using PrecisionX or whatever this is for my GTX 770, if I turn off "Automatic Fan Control," it'll default to using the fan curve I've created, right?

    I set the first step of the curve to be below the minimum power threshold (33%) for my fan to spin up... but it's still sitting at 33% of PWM (~1100 rpm). What gives? I just want my fan to be off when the GPU temp is below 40C.

    EDIT: Never mind. The PrecisionX UI is just misleading; you have to have both "Auto" checked in the main OSD as well as in the advanced options to get the card/software to use your custom fan curve, as confirmed by this video... and the fact that the card didn't spin the fan up at all while running Furmark until I checked "Auto".

    Hamurabi on
  • DritzDritz Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Does anyone happen to know what part prices are like in Canada compared to the US and the UK? Since I have some bad video card problems I was thinking about making some... upgrades. Maybe throw a hot new nvidia card and an i7 at this bad boy. Treat him right.

    From what I've seen prices seem pretty 'fair', that is they match up when applying the exchange rate. I think around this time the sales are a little more ambitious in the US (and easier to keep track of).

    There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
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  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    Well I saved enough money for my friend to get a 980

    And now I hate him

    Iolo
  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    Since this kind of ended up in the last thread:
    So, since cheap computer parts is happening soon, is there anything that would be worth upgrading from my Xeon E3-1230 for? My best understanding is that it's (more or less) equivalent to the i7 2600, which is alongside every other recent Intel processor at the top of the Tom's Hardware gaming CPU hierarchy. I just find it difficult to believe that nothing has been placed a higher hierarchy level during the past 3.5 years.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Games aren't very CPU bound in general (stupid DA:I/CoD:AW quadcore bullshit...), so I'd go with Tom's conclusions.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • DritzDritz Registered User regular
    I'm so close, just waiting for some kind of break on the 970. Seems like all they've done is go up in price over the last couple months.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $206.83)
    Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (Purchased For $74.72)
    Memory: G.Skill Sniper Low Voltage Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (Purchased For $94.48)
    Storage: Crucial M4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
    Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($418.68 @ Vuugo)
    Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $89.99)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $98.67)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased For $99.99)
    Total: $1083.36
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-22 13:35 EST-0500

    There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Games aren't very CPU bound in general (stupid DA:I/CoD:AW quadcore bullshit...), so I'd go with Tom's conclusions.
    People keep telling me that, then I upgrade my CPU and suddenly my framerate is improved/more consistent. It depends on the game. The games I've been playing a lot of recently are certainly pegging out on the CPU long before they do the GPU, even at 2560x1440. In Warframe I don't even go above 60% GPU usage. 60 FPS makes Rose an unhappy person :(

    Edit: And I just checked out Guild Wars 2. I'm hitting 50% GPU usage at 2560x1440 with super sampling turned on. I'm running the game at 5k and still CPU bound.

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