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[D&D 5E Discussion] Maybe he's born with it. Nope it's Vampirism.

DenadaDenada Registered User regular
edited June 2016 in Critical Failures
Let’s talk about the fifth (and newest) edition of Dungeons & Dragons. According to Mike Mearls, the game is complete and fully released now. There’s a Starter Set, a Player’s Handbook, a Monster Manual, and a Dungeon Master’s Guide. There’s also some adventures and miniatures and stuff. If you don't want to buy anything, there's also the Basic Rules, which are very limited but are free.

Starting in April of 2015, Wizards of the Coast has licensed the 5E rules to be purchased in Fantasy Grounds, a digital tabletop that has been around for a long time. The player's rules are $50, or you can buy them in chunks. Same with the DM's side of things. Also Fantasy Grounds is on Steam, so there's that.

HEY now there's an official SRD and third-party license and stuff and I guess it's just a skinned DriveThruRPG store? I don't know. It's over here -> DM's Guild.


But wait! Do you even know what D&D is? Here, take a listen to this totally realistic demonstration:


Okay, now that you know how to play D&D correctly, let’s argue about why you're playing it wrong and why 5E is the best/worst/most/least/mediocre/great edition yet!

Suggested Talking Points:
  • Tables, and why they suck except when they're great.
  • Bounded Accuracy, and why it works except when it doesn't.
  • Fluff Text, and why you don't need it except when you do.
  • Fighters, and why they're the best at fighting except when they aren't.
  • Casters, and why they're not overpowered except when they are.
  • Challenge Rating, and why it makes sense except when it doesn't.
  • DMs, and why any good DM would do that thing except when they wouldn't.

Denada on
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Posts

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Goddamn Denada, it's a crime that you aren't getting paid for these thread titles.

    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
    DenadaMikey CTSIncenjucarToxRiusElvenshaeCapfalcon
  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    I think the one thing we can all agreed is that Denada is simple the best.

    Mikey CTS on
    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Okay wait a minute, what's a character...? -_-

    Rend on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Modules should actually be fairly trivial... if they have a unified and working system with assumptions which were designed to have done give in them.

    Incenjucar on
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    Rerolling 1s and 2s is + (max damage of die -2)/(max damage of the die), if anyone was wondering. So for a d6 it adds 4/6 a point of damage.

    Rerolling 1s and 2s adds +1 damage. When you reroll a number, it removes it from the PDF and re-balances the remaining numbers equally. So, if you reroll a 1, you redistribute the PDF across 2 through X (where X is the max), resulting in an average roll of (2+X)/2. Rerolling 1s and 2s is PDF from 3 to X, or an average of (3+X)/2.

    d6 => 3.5 average (normal), 4.0 average (reroll 1s), 4.5 average (reroll 1s, 2s)
    d8 => 4.5 average (normal), 5.0 average (reroll 1s), 5.5 average (reroll 1s, 2s)
    etc.

    Now, this assumes infinite rerolls. If it's only "reroll once," then the statistic is entirely different because after the first reroll you can still end up with a 1 or 2 on the die.
    Rerolling 1s and 2s is + (max damage of die -2)/(max damage of the die), if anyone was wondering. So for a d6 it adds 4/6 a point of damage.

    Generally Brutal X reduces the effective die size by X and adds +X to the new smaller die's average. So 1d6 Brutal 2 is effectively a 1d4+2.

    This is one of those areas where I know people think it's "fun" to reroll low numbers but damn it, it's mathematically equivalent to a much faster single die roll!

    This is correct if you step the die size by the exact number and not what we normally consider die size.

    I.e. d6 => d5 + 1 (reroll 1) => d4 + 2 (reroll 1 and 2)

    Changing the actual size based on what we normally consider size would result in the same average value:

    d8 (4.5 average) => d6 + 1 (4.5 average) => d4 + 2 (4.5 average)

    While you are of course, correct, I guess I didn't think it was necessary to mention rerolling once, since that's the mechanic in the game in question, and there aren't infinite rerolls?

    So rerolling a 1d6 infinitely on 1s and 2s would just be 1d4+2 then?

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    Elvenshae
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    roman%20D4small.jpg

    Tox on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    There already is something in 5E that let's you reroll once and have to take the new roll. The fighting style for two handed weapons. That's what I was referring to.

    silence1186 on
    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    There already is something in 5E that let's you reroll once and have to take the new roll. The fighting style for two handed weapons. That's what I was referring to.

    Ah, okay. I wasn't paying that close of attention. If that's the case, d6 reroll 1,2, keep second result averages out to a 4.17, so ~+0.57 over a standard d6.

  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    roman%20D4small.jpg

    I just ceil(d8/2).

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    This isn't always the case though. 1d12r1 is 2-12, so is 2d6, but they have vastly different distributions.

    For single dice though, this holds up. 1d6r2 is 1d4+2. 1d8r2 is 1d6+2, 1d8r4 is 1d4+4, etc.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    There already is something in 5E that let's you reroll once and have to take the new roll. The fighting style for two handed weapons. That's what I was referring to.

    Very good for Champion Greatsword fighters. Because they will crit a lot and so roll lots of d6's.

    For a d6 1,2 -> become a 3.5 average and 3,4,5,6 become a 4.5 average. For a weighted average of 4.16 (or +.66 damage per die). So a greatsword fighter gets +1.32 damage/attack and another +1.32 damage/attack on each crit. Its also decent with the battle master archetype because the rerolls should apply to battlemaster bonus damage die (and you're going to tend to choose those die when you crit, so you will stack the bonus on top of that)

    Rerolls on other weapons are not nearly as good even though the effect gets larger as the weapon die increases**. A longsword (1d10) will be 1,2 -> Avg 5.5 and Rest -> Avg 6.5. Total weighted average is now 6.3. Which is only +.8 damage/attack

    But its still pretty balls compared to Archery*, Defense, or Protection though

    *Especially the hilarity that is stacked archery, crossbow specialist, and sharpshooter.

    **The final damage on the die is [(N+1) + ([N+3]/2)*(N-2)]/N which goes to (N+3)/2 as N-> infinity or as the damage die increases you get closer to +1 average damage

    Goumindong on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    There already is something in 5E that let's you reroll once and have to take the new roll. The fighting style for two handed weapons. That's what I was referring to.

    Very good for Champion Greatsword fighters. Because they will crit a lot and so roll lots of d6's.

    For a d6 1,2 -> become a 3.5 average and 3,4,5,6 become a 4.5 average. For a weighted average of 4.16 (or +.66 damage per die). So a greatsword fighter gets +1.32 damage/attack and another +1.32 damage/attack on each crit. Its also decent with the battle master archetype because the rerolls should apply to battlemaster bonus damage die (and you're going to tend to choose those die when you crit, so you will stack the bonus on top of that)

    Rerolls on other die are not nearly as good though. A longsword (1d10) will be 1,2 -> Avg 5.5 and Rest -> Avg 6.5. Total weighted average is now 6.3. Which is only +.8 damage/attack

    But its still pretty balls compared to Archery*, Defense, or Protection though

    *Especially the hilarity that is stacked archery, crossbow specialist, and sharpshooter.

    It also applies to Smites, and any other effects attached to attacking with the Two-handed weapon. My previously mentioned Oathbreaker would attack with a weapon, smite, divine favor, and use a consumable item. He ended up rolling 1d10+4d8+1d4(+7), so it bumped his average damage up quite a bit. That I rolled terribly, failed to knock down a PC, and saw him blow up over the next round is immaterial.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    So, my DND group just had its first party member die doing Tyranny of Dragons
    it was the fight with the 2 berserkers and the half dragon champion guy
    This basically caused the game to die because the player didn't want to play anymore, but that isn't what this post is about. I did some meta gaming and was looking at challenge ratings and the like, and best I can determine is...
    that fight is fucking ridiculous according to their system, like a 1600xp fight should be deadly, but it was rated at like 5000.
    My real question is, how the fuck does the CR system work, I found a calculator, but it seems like most things we fought up to that point were way higher than their listed 'medium' difficulty.

    I'm also planning on doing a custom campaign and trying to not totally fuck my group, but also want it to be a bit challenging once in awhile

    uNMAGLm.png Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    This isn't always the case though. 1d12r1 is 2-12, so is 2d6, but they have vastly different distributions.

    For single dice though, this holds up. 1d6r2 is 1d4+2. 1d8r2 is 1d6+2, 1d8r4 is 1d4+4, etc.

    I wasn't advocating replacing a single die roll with two dice rolls.

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    This isn't always the case though. 1d12r1 is 2-12, so is 2d6, but they have vastly different distributions.

    For single dice though, this holds up. 1d6r2 is 1d4+2. 1d8r2 is 1d6+2, 1d8r4 is 1d4+4, etc.

    I wasn't advocating replacing a single die roll with two dice rolls.

    I was adding that for completeness, since you referred to the range.

  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    how the fuck does the CR system work

    It doesn't.

    To be less flip, the Dungeon Master's Guide has a table for assigning CRs. Creatures have both an offensive CR and defensive CR that depends on their combat statistics. Both defensive and offensive CRs can be modified upward or downward by special abilities. The final CR is determined by finding the average of the offensive and defensive CRs.

    It does not work.

    AegeriElvenshaeTheKoolEagleStranger DangerprogramjunkieGreat Scott
  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    am0n wrote: »
    Yes. You can just think of it in terms of the range. A d6 is a 1-6. A d6 rerolling 1s and 2s is 3-6, which is the same as 1d4+2.

    But who the hell wants to roll d4s?

    As for the rerolling once, there are things in 4E where you can only reroll once and then have to take it whatever it is. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road something similar pops up in 5E.

    This isn't always the case though. 1d12r1 is 2-12, so is 2d6, but they have vastly different distributions.

    For single dice though, this holds up. 1d6r2 is 1d4+2. 1d8r2 is 1d6+2, 1d8r4 is 1d4+4, etc.

    I wasn't advocating replacing a single die roll with two dice rolls.

    I was adding that for completeness, since you referred to the range.

    Fair enough. You are correct that you can't replace a single die roll with more than that, even if the range is the same, as it does indeed change the PDF.

    ElvenshaeArdent
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    This is just one example of an Epic tier magic sword from 13th Age. It has personality, both literally and metaphorically. There's nothing Epic about +3 to hit and damage. Or +3 to AC.
    Sword of Ruin (+3 greatsword): Until recently, the Orc Lord’s personal executioner carried the sword of ruin, but she and the blade vanished mysteriously, and the dread weapon’s current whereabouts are unknown – which means no Icon or ruler in the land can sleep soundly. The sword of ruin is the bane of kings and the unraveller of empires. If it’s used to kill someone with authority over or ownership of a domain of any kind, it curses that domain. Armies lose their courage; castle walls lose their strength; places of magic lose their power; people lose their faith and even the land loses its vitality and becomes desolate and barren.
    For example, if the sword of ruin killed the Imperial Governor of a seaport, then that town’s walls might crumble. Its defenders might lose heart, its ships might sink or its fishing fleets might find the seas unaccountably empty. The precise manifestation of the sword’s curse varies, but it always brings ruin and destruction. Any domain, no matter how large or small, is vulnerable to ruin. If it killed a peasant, it blight only that peasant’s field and leave the rest of the farmland nearby untouched. If it killed the Emperor... well that would be one way to end the campaign.
    The Sword of Ruin only works if it kills with a critical hit or coup de grace. Quirk: Hates to be given orders.

    Do DMs really need a book to create lore and powers for legendary items like this for them? I don't know any DMs who give out legendary level magic items that are just +3 swords and what not. They always create lore and special powers for them. I imagine the DMG has some of this type of stuff in it already, but for the most part I'd expect this stuff to be handcrafted.

    It's almost like when I pay sixty dollars for a book, I expect it to actually do things that are useful.

    Or in this case, if I have to do everything useful myself why buy the book at all? I don't need to buy it to know weapons or armor go to +3. Those are in a free pdf!!!!

    Honestly, what is the value of this book when the rules modules are dreadful (all of five seconds of thought when into many of these rules), tables consume the book pagespace wise, the monster creation math flat out doesn't work, the magic items are generally ripped from the past when they do get it right (Apparatus of Kwalish for example) and the only good chapters are things I already know after running DnD for 18 years.

    It's very disappointing and nowhere near what Wizards were promising it would be (which wwas that it would have answers to common complaints of 5e). I mean they couldn't even be bothered giving something as basic as a table for expected treasure/magic items by level.
    So, my DND group just had its first party member die doing Tyranny of Dragons
    it was the fight with the 2 berserkers and the half dragon champion guy
    This basically caused the game to die because the player didn't want to play anymore, but that isn't what this post is about. I did some meta gaming and was looking at challenge ratings and the like, and best I can determine is...
    that fight is fucking ridiculous according to their system, like a 1600xp fight should be deadly, but it was rated at like 5000.
    My real question is, how the fuck does the CR system work, I found a calculator, but it seems like most things we fought up to that point were way higher than their listed 'medium' difficulty.

    I'm also planning on doing a custom campaign and trying to not totally fuck my group, but also want it to be a bit challenging once in awhile
    That encounter is a real bastard. I recommend changing the beserkers to veterans or otherwise fudging it in some way.

    As for how cr and encounters work, they don't. I am routinely using ludicrous encounters in my game and they work well. But then I also ignore all guidelines on building encounters too and heavily modify monsters. Basically, I do 90% of the effort I expected wizards to do.

    Curious how many pcs you have actually.

    Aegeri on
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  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    This is just one example of an Epic tier magic sword from 13th Age. It has personality, both literally and metaphorically. There's nothing Epic about +3 to hit and damage. Or +3 to AC.
    Sword of Ruin (+3 greatsword): Until recently, the Orc Lord’s personal executioner carried the sword of ruin, but she and the blade vanished mysteriously, and the dread weapon’s current whereabouts are unknown – which means no Icon or ruler in the land can sleep soundly. The sword of ruin is the bane of kings and the unraveller of empires. If it’s used to kill someone with authority over or ownership of a domain of any kind, it curses that domain. Armies lose their courage; castle walls lose their strength; places of magic lose their power; people lose their faith and even the land loses its vitality and becomes desolate and barren.
    For example, if the sword of ruin killed the Imperial Governor of a seaport, then that town’s walls might crumble. Its defenders might lose heart, its ships might sink or its fishing fleets might find the seas unaccountably empty. The precise manifestation of the sword’s curse varies, but it always brings ruin and destruction. Any domain, no matter how large or small, is vulnerable to ruin. If it killed a peasant, it blight only that peasant’s field and leave the rest of the farmland nearby untouched. If it killed the Emperor... well that would be one way to end the campaign.
    The Sword of Ruin only works if it kills with a critical hit or coup de grace. Quirk: Hates to be given orders.

    Do DMs really need a book to create lore and powers for legendary items like this for them? I don't know any DMs who give out legendary level magic items that are just +3 swords and what not. They always create lore and special powers for them. I imagine the DMG has some of this type of stuff in it already, but for the most part I'd expect this stuff to be handcrafted.

    This is an epic tier item. Every epic tier item is as big as this. There are no plain +3 swords. Because +3 swords are boring while pretending to be Legendary.

    The bit about DMs and books makes my mind boggle, I'm afraid. We're comparing books.
    I'm actually messing about with magic items a bit for my game.

    One of the things I find most intensely interesting about Tolkien's Legendarium is that objects of power accumulate greater power as the legend surrounding them grows (with a couple of exceptions, which are macguffins or, as 13th Age helpfully delineates, minor magical items). This is especially true of the magical arms and armor that litter the Legendarium and puts an interesting spin on what exactly makes them magical. 13th Age moves towards this a bit haphazardly (they don't actually cover the ways in which the actions undertaken with a weapon, or with armor, would directly affect the abilities of those magic items, but they sort of allude that that could be a thing).

    As far as where these items come from, well, there is a bunch of pre-gen magic items out there, but that's boring. You should be tailoring magic items to your group anyway.

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  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    This is just one example of an Epic tier magic sword from 13th Age. It has personality, both literally and metaphorically. There's nothing Epic about +3 to hit and damage. Or +3 to AC.
    Sword of Ruin (+3 greatsword): Until recently, the Orc Lord’s personal executioner carried the sword of ruin, but she and the blade vanished mysteriously, and the dread weapon’s current whereabouts are unknown – which means no Icon or ruler in the land can sleep soundly. The sword of ruin is the bane of kings and the unraveller of empires. If it’s used to kill someone with authority over or ownership of a domain of any kind, it curses that domain. Armies lose their courage; castle walls lose their strength; places of magic lose their power; people lose their faith and even the land loses its vitality and becomes desolate and barren.
    For example, if the sword of ruin killed the Imperial Governor of a seaport, then that town’s walls might crumble. Its defenders might lose heart, its ships might sink or its fishing fleets might find the seas unaccountably empty. The precise manifestation of the sword’s curse varies, but it always brings ruin and destruction. Any domain, no matter how large or small, is vulnerable to ruin. If it killed a peasant, it blight only that peasant’s field and leave the rest of the farmland nearby untouched. If it killed the Emperor... well that would be one way to end the campaign.
    The Sword of Ruin only works if it kills with a critical hit or coup de grace. Quirk: Hates to be given orders.

    Do DMs really need a book to create lore and powers for legendary items like this for them? I don't know any DMs who give out legendary level magic items that are just +3 swords and what not. They always create lore and special powers for them. I imagine the DMG has some of this type of stuff in it already, but for the most part I'd expect this stuff to be handcrafted.

    It's almost like when I pay sixty dollars for a book, I expect it to actually do things that are useful.

    Or in this case, if I have to do everything useful myself why buy the book at all? I don't need to buy it to know weapons or armor go to +3. I don't need to buy it to know weapons or armor go to +3. Those are in a free pdf!!!!

    Honestly, what is the value of this book when the rules modules are dreadful (all of five seconds of thought when into many of these rules), tables consume the book pagespace wise, the monster creation math flat out doesn't work, the magic items are generally ripped from the past when they do get it right (Apparatus of Kwalish for example) and the only good chapters are things I already know after running DnD for 18 years.

    It's very disappointing and nowhere near what Wizards were promising it would be (which wwas that it would have answers to common complaints of 5e). I mean they couldn't even be bothered giving something as basic as a table for expected treasure/magic items by level.
    So, my DND group just had its first party member die doing Tyranny of Dragons
    it was the fight with the 2 berserkers and the half dragon champion guy
    This basically caused the game to die because the player didn't want to play anymore, but that isn't what this post is about. I did some meta gaming and was looking at challenge ratings and the like, and best I can determine is...
    that fight is fucking ridiculous according to their system, like a 1600xp fight should be deadly, but it was rated at like 5000.
    My real question is, how the fuck does the CR system work, I found a calculator, but it seems like most things we fought up to that point were way higher than their listed 'medium' difficulty.

    I'm also planning on doing a custom campaign and trying to not totally fuck my group, but also want it to be a bit challenging once in awhile
    That encounter is a real bastard. I recommend changing the beserkers to veterans or otherwise fudging it in some way.

    As for how cr and encounters work, they don't. I am routinely using ludicrous encounters in my game and they work well. But then I also ignore all guidelines on building encounters too and heavily modify monsters. Basically, I do 90% of the effort I expected wizards to do.

    Curious how many pcs you have actually.

    My party consisted of me, a level 3 warlock who did not get to rest before the fight (I was on lookout in the cave while the others rested to regain HP), a level 3 sorceror whose main move is colorspray, a level 3 monk, and a level 3 cleric that was tempest.

    We definitely were the C team when it came to a adventuring group, but the fight did not end well. We were not expecting so much HP soak considering we peacefully dealt with the last encounter and before that it was crappy kobolds.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Yeah your party was never going to fare well against that encounter. At least it didn't result in a TPK, which it certainly has for other groups.

    Oddly enough, the fight is too easy if you have 5 or 6 pcs but too hard if you have 4.

    Hmmm.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    I could never see leaving what magic items the party gets to chance. Not only do I deliberately choose what to give who, when, but also I generally make the items from scratch, or modify an existing item.

    What is a good way to distribute resources to players? Specifically, I want to add the Aasimir, and Eladrin races from the DMG, as well as a Half-Minotaur race requested by one of my players. Just a hand out?

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    If it's something they don't have, I'd just throw it in a Google doc and share with everyone.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I have a facebook group for my games and use the file uploading there to share everything with them. It is good because it tells you who has seen or downloaded something, so you can ensure all your players are familiar with it.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    Hachface
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I have a facebook group for my games and use the file uploading there to share everything with them. It is good because it tells you who has seen or downloaded something, so you can ensure all your players are familiar with it.

    "Jon, I know you saw my 15-page treatise on the Koldam-Silurian trade negotiations surrounding mineral rights in the Moradin's Pass. I uploaded it to Facebook three months ago. You shouldn't need to make a History check for this!"

    Fry
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Actually that has already happened. One of my players asked "Who is this person" and immediately got chastised by another who said it is "The personal ship Mage of the villain, gosh, didn't you do the homework from the facebook group".

    It was pretty funny. I also use it to keep a record of NPCs they have met, their factional alliances when it becomes relevant and their ships crew/statistics.

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    Rhesus PositiveMaddoc
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Holy fuck the DMG has a "Monsters by Challenge Rating" chart.

    I should be angry that they didn't include it in the MM, but it's hard to think with this massive, throbbing erection I've gotten over not having to make it myself.

  • legallytiredlegallytired Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    There's a pdf of the chart on the wizards site.

    legallytired on
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    I'm looking over the encounter building rules.

    For a party of four fourth level characters, an encounter of 500xp would be a speed bump, 1000xp is a brisk workout, 1500xp is a 90mph car chase in the rain at night, and 2,000xp is akin to trying to defuse a bomb in a space shuttle that's flying into the sun.

    In a sidebar, it spends about three paragraphs explaining why you shouldn't use creatures with a higher CR than party level. I imagine that's their passive aggressive way of saying "Don't fucking do that shit".

    The DMG also warns about using multiple monsters, and instructs that you should increase the XP value of each monster. The seems math seems moronic at first (double XP for 3 monsters, quadruple for 15+), but in practice it makes a bell curve. One stirge is 25xp, three are 150xp, and fifteen are 1,500xp. In addition, it adds that monsters that are significantly lower CR than the party (not specifying 'significant'), you should not multiply their XP; unless you think they're going to significantly (there it is again) make the fight harder.

    Math in action.

    A CR3 Knight at 700xp. He commands a host of eight Stirges with his magical amulet.

    Explanation 1: {700+(8*25)=900xp} - The stirges are significantly lower than the average CR of the party, so I did not multiply the XP of any monsters.

    Explanation 2: {(700*2.5)+(8*25)=1950xp} - The stirges are significantly lower than the average CR of the party, so I did not multiply the XP of the stirges.

    I wish I was still DMing. I need to see if this encounter is a stiff breeze or a TPK waiting to happen.

    Carnarvon on
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    There's a pdf of the chart on the wizards site.

    That's amazing.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Carnarvon a simple demonstration of how the maths is utterly broken and doesn't work is to look at an encounter of 12 CR 1/4 zombies and compare them to a mixed group of 6 zombies as before, but now you've replaced 6 of them with CR 1/4 skeletons. Both of these should be ludicrous encounters for a level 3 party (IIRC), however the zombies lack of ranged options reduces their threat level considerably compared to the exact same number of same challenge enemies, except all the skeletons have a ranged attack (which makes a massive difference).

    In my game, I don't even build encounters using the rules that Wizards gave anymore. The creature I used against my party works out (after legendary and lair actions are considered) to be around CR 7 or 8 (I have five level 4 PCs). It was an intense battle, but in the end they triumphed and it worked exactly to plan. Many of my other encounters have been tense, but more than survivable despite the encounter design rules assuring me they were ludicrous and deadly on a routine basis (they weren't, as my parties current breathing attests).

    90% of encounter design in 5E is best thought about as "What do these monsters actually *do*" moreso than what they have actually suggested. An encounter with CR 1 Ghouls or CR 2 Centaurs is not the same as one with a CR 2 (IIRC) Ogre. Likewise, as the skeletons show, some enemies force multiply much faster than Wizards suggested bell curve while others are nowhere near as effective. Any monster with pack tactics or the Sahuagin (who are pretty damn powerful to be frank) who gain advantage on enemies who have anything less than full HP force multiply much harder than say, an Orc.

    The more you entirely ignore what Wizards thinks and use judgement - and yes, I know this isn't great advice and relies on experience/instinct - the better things in this will just work out.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    So in the DMG there is an alternate rule that allows PCs to spend 5 minutes for a short rest, and 1 hour for a long rest. I'm curious how this would go, so I gave my players a magic item this week that duplicates this effect (with 3 charges) to see how it works in practice. The next dungeon I design is going to be commensurately difficult so the PCs have to spend a lot of resources per encounter, and have a story induced time limit to prevent regular 1 hour short rest after each battle.

    We'll see how it goes.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    So.. what skill does a Monk use to cast spells?
    Because our 5th level Monk has taken the shadow casting path or what have you and can cast the Minor Illusion cantrip. However, we could not find where his casting modifier comes from in the class description. So I'm currently assuming it's his Strength mod because he's a +5 Str Monk, and that would be funny.

    It'd also be sort of nice if I could go at least one session in this game without accidentally stumbling into another hole in the rules.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    So the Monk would be punching people so hard they hallucinate?

    discriderFoolish ChaosFry
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    I thought it was Wisdom for Monk casting.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • Mongrel IdiotMongrel Idiot Registered User regular
    I'd use the save DC for ki powers (8+proficiency+Wisdom). I suppose that, technically, minor illusion doesn't take ki points to case, so you might make the argument that it's therefore not a ki power. That's what makes sense to me, though.

    0sgEp4R.jpg?1
  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited December 2014
    Since they aren't really "Spells," but uses of Ki, you use the same Save DC you would use for any other Ki effect. 8+Wis Mod+Proficiency

    edit: The Shadow Arts section describes you as using your Ki to "duplicate the effects of certain spells."

    Nealneal on
  • am0nam0n Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Actually that has already happened. One of my players asked "Who is this person" and immediately got chastised by another who said it is "The personal ship Mage of the villain, gosh, didn't you do the homework from the facebook group".

    It was pretty funny. I also use it to keep a record of NPCs they have met, their factional alliances when it becomes relevant and their ships crew/statistics.

    Man, you guys expect your groups to pre-read? If I could get mine to give me an updated character sheet and a wish list I am doing awesome.

    Mikey CTSDenadaInfidelStranger Danger
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    We use a Wiki to catalogue session notes, shared resources, XP use and contemporary world events.

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