CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
And even if it's not the entire explanation, I do feel like "this character was designed to appeal to women" characters tend to get a lot more flack than "this character was designed to appeal to men" characters. People do not go on for pages about Bastilla's boringness or her pat, cliche character beats.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
And even if it's not the entire explanation, I do feel like "this character was designed to appeal to women" characters tend to get a lot more flack than "this character was designed to appeal to men" characters. People do not go on for pages about Bastilla's boringness or her pat, cliche character beats.
I mean
I generally think Bioware does a lot better job making its female characters less boring
Bastilla is boring
but she doesn't represent a template bioware has used over and over again
Ashley, Morrigan, Miranda, Aveline
All of those have way more going on than Carth, Kaiden... the... guy in Kotor 2 whose name I literally can't remember
I mean this is going to be subjective, but I don't think its crazy to say a lot of those dudes have really basically nothing going on
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
I think Kaidan has a personality. And I've never got the complaint that Kaidan is whiny. He only tells you his backstory if you prod him on it, explicitly tells you not to feel sorry for him or whatever, and has no unresolved issues that he needs Shepard's help with.
"it's so haaaaard to be an elite warrior who could have a legitimate claim for the throne if he had any initiative outside of what the super-protagonist tells him to do"
yeah but Kaidan is just charisma-less, Alistair does have his moments
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Kyoka SuigetsuOdin gave his left eye for knowledge. I would give far moreRegistered Userregular
In other inquisition related gripes I am v disappointed by its soundtrack which I found to be a bit bland, aside from the Temple of Mythal theme, which is fab
Trevor moore is a great composer too, and did great work for the Borgias and Vikings.
But DAII had such a unique soundtrack and DA:I has nothing approaching songs like this
I think Kaidan has a personality. And I've never got the complaint that Kaidan is whiny. He only tells you his backstory if you prod him on it, explicitly tells you not to feel sorry for him or whatever, and has no unresolved issues that he needs Shepard's help with.
I still like DA:I's soundtrack a lot more than DA:O's, though
That soundtrack was mostly just trying to channel Lord of the Rings.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I mean I love Alistair to bits but he is way whinier than Kaidan. For that matter Fenris is too. He even has emo hair.
I think I have a different definition of whiny than other people. To me whiny is someone who complains about things that are really pretty minor (like whining that they have a splinter or that the office is slightly too cold). Whereas if you're crying because your son is missing or your father figure is dead, I don't really consider that whining.
Especially if you only get those complaints because you're close to those people and you asked about it.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
My only real complaint w/ Alistair is that my Human Noble can't talk more about how all her family died recently (but at least she can mention it, which is better than Luke & Leia in A New Hope).
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
My only real complaint w/ Alistair is that my Human Noble can't talk more about how all her family died recently (but at least she can mention it, which is better than Luke & Leia in A New Hope).
can any of the origins go "join the club" at that
since like almost all of them have their family horrifically murdered
And even if it's not the entire explanation, I do feel like "this character was designed to appeal to women" characters tend to get a lot more flack than "this character was designed to appeal to men" characters. People do not go on for pages about Bastilla's boringness or her pat, cliche character beats.
I wouldn't say there's no backlash against characters like that, cuz there totally is, at least in some parts of the internet.
But speaking for myself, I totally dislike "The Carth"
Not because he's meant to appeal to women per se, but because he always feels like there was a dude writer awkwardly trying to script a romance for women and not really knowing what to do with it.
A big reason for that I think is that a lot of previous Bioware titles suffer from an agency problem. Culturally men are expected to take the initiative in romance, which overlaps neatly with protagonists getting all the agency in picking who they're gonna bang out of the bevy of willing hotties. And then the male writers have to write a romance where it's the lady with all the initiative and agency, and inevitably it means the dude is either going to be a sensitive wounded warrior or just a slumpy milquetoast, because they have to justify the male characters lack of agency in the romance. Or something. Maybe that's just me?
At some point Bioware seems like they've figured this thing out though, because the Inquisition romances are waaaaay better written. Like it feels like they have a give-and-take in most of the romances now that feels way more organic than most of the others they've done.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
My only real complaint w/ Alistair is that my Human Noble can't talk more about how all her family died recently (but at least she can mention it, which is better than Luke & Leia in A New Hope).
can any of the origins go "join the club" at that
since like almost all of them have their family horrifically murdered
Look if you wanna make an RPG hero you're gonna have to break some eggs.
Orphans are scientifically proven to save the world 64% more successfully.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
And even if it's not the entire explanation, I do feel like "this character was designed to appeal to women" characters tend to get a lot more flack than "this character was designed to appeal to men" characters. People do not go on for pages about Bastilla's boringness or her pat, cliche character beats.
I wouldn't say there's no backlash against characters like that, cuz there totally is, at least in some parts of the internet.
But speaking for myself, I totally dislike "The Carth"
Not because he's meant to appeal to women per se, but because he always feels like there was a dude writer awkwardly trying to script a romance for women and not really knowing what to do with it.
A big reason for that I think is that a lot of previous Bioware titles suffer from an agency problem. Culturally men are expected to take the initiative in romance, which overlaps neatly with protagonists getting all the agency in picking who they're gonna bang out of the bevy of willing hotties. And then the male writers have to write a romance where it's the lady with all the initiative and agency, and inevitably it means the dude is either going to be a sensitive wounded warrior or just a slumpy milquetoast, because they have to justify the male characters lack of agency in the romance. Or something. Maybe that's just me?
At some point Bioware seems like they've figured this thing out though, because the Inquisition romances are waaaaay better written. Like it feels like they have a give-and-take in most of the romances now that feels way more organic than most of the others they've done.
They've definitely been getting much better for sure
and yeah the milquetoast or woe is me guy is totally what I'm going for there
even Alistair, who is sort of that second one, has more charisma and a bit more depth to him
But the recent romances, especially those in DAI, have been doing a better job of being characters first and romances second, instead of the "romance" first, with their personality just feeling like background info
And even if it's not the entire explanation, I do feel like "this character was designed to appeal to women" characters tend to get a lot more flack than "this character was designed to appeal to men" characters. People do not go on for pages about Bastilla's boringness or her pat, cliche character beats.
I wouldn't say there's no backlash against characters like that, cuz there totally is, at least in some parts of the internet.
But speaking for myself, I totally dislike "The Carth"
Not because he's meant to appeal to women per se, but because he always feels like there was a dude writer awkwardly trying to script a romance for women and not really knowing what to do with it.
A big reason for that I think is that a lot of previous Bioware titles suffer from an agency problem. Culturally men are expected to take the initiative in romance, which overlaps neatly with protagonists getting all the agency in picking who they're gonna bang out of the bevy of willing hotties. And then the male writers have to write a romance where it's the lady with all the initiative and agency, and inevitably it means the dude is either going to be a sensitive wounded warrior or just a slumpy milquetoast, because they have to justify the male characters lack of agency in the romance. Or something. Maybe that's just me?
At some point Bioware seems like they've figured this thing out though, because the Inquisition romances are waaaaay better written. Like it feels like they have a give-and-take in most of the romances now that feels way more organic than most of the others they've done.
Well just speaking for myself, I haven't seen a romance yet that's anywhere near as good as Alistair's. The Alistair romance has many good beats to it and they occur throughout.
Though Cullen's romance is quite good.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Alistair has aspects of the milquetoast thing, but he also has a good sense of humor about it and sort of calls himself out on it too.
I don't really mind Alistair
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The thing that I -really- like with how Inquisition does the romance dialogue is that characters will remember if you flirted with them.
So like if you were all flirty last time, once you hit that next discussion the character will just launch right back into flirty dialogue, and if you declined to flirt then they'll stick to business. It makes it feel like a natural conversation and lets the player choose who they want to romance, without it feeling like the player is like, harassing them into love (*cough*Bastilla*cough*). It makes it feel like an actual romantic story instead of a dating sim.
It's a much better balance than like, ME's system (agree with them until they like you and have sex before the last mission), or some of the bits they tried in previous Dragon Ages, where you can't walk down the street without npcs throwing themselves at you.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I like Alistair a lot because his voice actor invested him with a huge amount of charm and genuine empathy and he is just a really decent dude
Ya, this is a big one too. Alistair's VA absolutely elevates the character. Like when I think about what I like about Alistair, it's way more about the performance than necessarily the written personality.
Alistair could be waaaay less likeable with a different actor. Whereas say, Miranda... Who would even care?
Sera > Miranda
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I like Alistair a lot because his voice actor invested him with a huge amount of charm and genuine empathy and he is just a really decent dude
Ya, this is a big one too. Alistair's VA absolutely elevates the character. Like when I think about what I like about Alistair, it's way more about the performance than necessarily the written personality.
Alistair could be waaaay less likeable with a different actor. Whereas say, Miranda... Who would even care?
I like Alistair a lot because his voice actor invested him with a huge amount of charm and genuine empathy and he is just a really decent dude
Ya, this is a big one too. Alistair's VA absolutely elevates the character. Like when I think about what I like about Alistair, it's way more about the performance than necessarily the written personality.
Alistair could be waaaay less likeable with a different actor. Whereas say, Miranda... Who would even care?
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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I usually hear that described as "boring, flat character with no personality"
which alisair is not
It's dudes way of saying they're made uncomfortable by a guy who's there for ladies only.
"Bland white guy" is not limited to the personality
When I see a Carth, I see a character a shitty executive would want to have on the box art so "people will relate to it"
Carthness is a spectum, not binary
Basically the scale runs from the low end, Carth/Anders, to the high end, Alistair/Nathan Drake
No that's not it at all
I don't really get this
do you just mean "guy who is white" then
cause that doesn't really seem fair
I admit I was being salty with that reply.
But youre explanation doesn't fit either, else Alistair or Cullen or even Anders would never make that list.
PSN- AHermano
I don't think Anders or Cullen is one
I admit I don't know much about anders, I didn't talk to him at all in mine, he might not be
I think Mr. G is being way too liberal with it
but I haven't played any of those games other than inquisition
https://medium.com/@alascii
I mean
I generally think Bioware does a lot better job making its female characters less boring
Bastilla is boring
but she doesn't represent a template bioware has used over and over again
Ashley, Morrigan, Miranda, Aveline
All of those have way more going on than Carth, Kaiden... the... guy in Kotor 2 whose name I literally can't remember
I mean this is going to be subjective, but I don't think its crazy to say a lot of those dudes have really basically nothing going on
"it's so haaaaard to be an elite warrior who could have a legitimate claim for the throne if he had any initiative outside of what the super-protagonist tells him to do"
It would be
the jury might even give me a medal, I imagine
Trevor moore is a great composer too, and did great work for the Borgias and Vikings.
But DAII had such a unique soundtrack and DA:I has nothing approaching songs like this
Yeah I don't really think kaiden is whiny either
I still think he's super boring though
That soundtrack was mostly just trying to channel Lord of the Rings.
PSN- AHermano
I think I have a different definition of whiny than other people. To me whiny is someone who complains about things that are really pretty minor (like whining that they have a splinter or that the office is slightly too cold). Whereas if you're crying because your son is missing or your father figure is dead, I don't really consider that whining.
Especially if you only get those complaints because you're close to those people and you asked about it.
can any of the origins go "join the club" at that
since like almost all of them have their family horrifically murdered
I wouldn't say there's no backlash against characters like that, cuz there totally is, at least in some parts of the internet.
But speaking for myself, I totally dislike "The Carth"
Not because he's meant to appeal to women per se, but because he always feels like there was a dude writer awkwardly trying to script a romance for women and not really knowing what to do with it.
A big reason for that I think is that a lot of previous Bioware titles suffer from an agency problem. Culturally men are expected to take the initiative in romance, which overlaps neatly with protagonists getting all the agency in picking who they're gonna bang out of the bevy of willing hotties. And then the male writers have to write a romance where it's the lady with all the initiative and agency, and inevitably it means the dude is either going to be a sensitive wounded warrior or just a slumpy milquetoast, because they have to justify the male characters lack of agency in the romance. Or something. Maybe that's just me?
At some point Bioware seems like they've figured this thing out though, because the Inquisition romances are waaaaay better written. Like it feels like they have a give-and-take in most of the romances now that feels way more organic than most of the others they've done.
Look if you wanna make an RPG hero you're gonna have to break some eggs.
Orphans are scientifically proven to save the world 64% more successfully.
They've definitely been getting much better for sure
and yeah the milquetoast or woe is me guy is totally what I'm going for there
even Alistair, who is sort of that second one, has more charisma and a bit more depth to him
But the recent romances, especially those in DAI, have been doing a better job of being characters first and romances second, instead of the "romance" first, with their personality just feeling like background info
Well just speaking for myself, I haven't seen a romance yet that's anywhere near as good as Alistair's. The Alistair romance has many good beats to it and they occur throughout.
Though Cullen's romance is quite good.
I don't really mind Alistair
So like if you were all flirty last time, once you hit that next discussion the character will just launch right back into flirty dialogue, and if you declined to flirt then they'll stick to business. It makes it feel like a natural conversation and lets the player choose who they want to romance, without it feeling like the player is like, harassing them into love (*cough*Bastilla*cough*). It makes it feel like an actual romantic story instead of a dating sim.
It's a much better balance than like, ME's system (agree with them until they like you and have sex before the last mission), or some of the bits they tried in previous Dragon Ages, where you can't walk down the street without npcs throwing themselves at you.
Ya, this is a big one too. Alistair's VA absolutely elevates the character. Like when I think about what I like about Alistair, it's way more about the performance than necessarily the written personality.
Alistair could be waaaay less likeable with a different actor. Whereas say, Miranda... Who would even care?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that spoiler
amen
amen
At least Sera has friends
:rotate: