not issuing traffic tickets sounds great but it's easy to forget thats about 15 million of NYCs annual budget
Also, noncompliance with alternate side is already bad enough. If people get the message that you can break parking laws freely, the streets will be incapable of being cleaned. Even worse, all the fire hydrants will be blocked by cars.
Yes, and who takes the blame for it... I think it's short sighted of them.
AlterNet has obtained emails revealing plans to organize a series of anti-de Blasio protests around the city until the summer of 2015. Billed as a non-partisan movement in support of “the men and women of the NYPD,” the protests are being orchestrated by a cast of NYPD union bosses and local Republican activists allied with Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor who recently called on de Blasio to “say you’re sorry to [NYPD officers] for having created a false impression of them.” The first rally is planned to take place at Queens Borough Hall at noon on January 13.
Joe Concannon, a failed Republican State Senate candidate and current president of the Tea Party-aligned Queens Village Republican Club, is the main organizer of the burgeoning anti-de Blasio protest effort. The retired NYPD captain and former Giuliani advisor is a close ally of Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association president Patrick Lynch. Lynch generated national headlines — and cheers from rank and file cops — when he claimed that de Blasio “has blood on [his] hands” just hours after Ismaaiyl Brinsley murdered Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu.
In an email exchange with a supporter, Concannon said he and his allies had filed papers to found a non-profit to fund the anti-de Blasio campaign. The January 13 Queens demonstration would be among the largest, according to Concannon. Major rallies in March in Breezy Point, Queens and at City Hall were also in the works, he said.
This makes me angry for many reasons, but the one I want to discuss is this: This is going to seriously detract from de Blasio's ability to do anything, and as a result I suspect the police will strongly back whatever Republican runs against him in the next mayoral election, and we'll have 20 more years of Republican rule in NYC. Can't New York just get a CHANCE to try out some liberal policies for once? I know there was talk about universal pre-K, but there was ridiculous blow back against the mayor before any of this War on Cops nonsense.
Bloomberg eliminated waste and corruption across the whole city, was very strong on environmentalism, expanded mass transit access for the poor and made city services more accessible to everyone living in the city. How much more progressive can you expect a mayor to be?
Bloomberg isn't a progressive on economics, foreign policy and domestic issues.
The idea of the police working to rule is frightening because in a city that size, a ton of horrible quality of life issues can creep up very fast if no one is making arrests for them.
The police do have to be prepared for a city like New York, since it is a dangerous job. What they can't do is act like an army behind enemies lines or be above the law. Quality of life issues for who, exactly? Do you think minorities and lower classes in that city feel safe under their control?
I don't think you are from the NYC area. Bloomberg was a transformative mayor. 311 alone was a huge change because it meant that it your land loser turned your heat off or a dead dog was left sitting on the street you could actually get it taken care of. The poor definitely benefit disproportionality by having access to those kinds of services increased.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The police are being very public about this being their idea to spite De Blaisio
he's not going to get the blame
I don't think that is true. The PBA disavowed the tactic. The message is pretty clearly "police were killed. The mayor is anti police. We don't feel safe doing our jobs until he is on our side." Whether that position is accurate is open to debate, but I don't see how De Blasio comes out of this bearing no blame. The image of the police force turning their back on the mayor was a powerful one. It's hard to place all of that on them unless you are already going to be anti police in all instances IMO.
the NYPD isn't winning hearts and minds by not doing their job. the public already hates them. Acting like spoiled children isn't going to make them more popular.
De Blaiso did nothing to encourage violence against cops and everyone knows it.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Also, let's not forget that there had been a public fear since De Blasio's election that the city would return to the lawlessness of the 80's. De Blasio had to appoint a pretty conservative commissioner and push for more quality of life enforcement to combat these fears. That policy is largely why things like the Garner arrest occur. There is a sting narrative here that De Blasio's policies lead to the police being in danger and thereby to lawlessness.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
the NYPD isn't winning hearts and minds by not doing their job. the public already hates them. Acting like spoiled children isn't going to make them more popular.
De Blaiso did nothing to encourage violence against cops and everyone knows it.
I disagree incredibly strongly that the public hates them. A vocal minority hates them. This minority is over represented on this forum. But I do t think there is any evidence that the majority of the public hates the NYPD.
So what? I have to be from NYC to comment? Do you deny that Bloomberg isn't a progressive on the subjects I mentioned. Hilary Clinton is for gay marriage too, she's not a liberal.
Bloomberg was a transformative mayor. 311 alone was a huge change because it meant that it your land loser turned your heat off or a dead dog was left sitting on the street you could actually get it taken care of. The poor definitely benefit disproportionality by having access to those kinds of services increased.
I'm not saying he didn't do good things, I agree with him on a host of issues. He's not a saint like you're suggesting.
Also, let's not forget that there had been a public fear since De Blasio's election that the city would return to the lawlessness of the 80's.
Cite, please.
De Blasio had to appoint a pretty conservative commissioner and push for more quality of life enforcement to combat these fears. That policy is largely why things like the Garner arrest occur. There is a sting narrative here that De Blasio's policies lead to the police being in danger and thereby to lawlessness.
It sounds like a compromise that backfired from a police department who have grown too comfortable with their power.
The police are being very public about this being their idea to spite De Blaisio
he's not going to get the blame
I don't think that is true. The PBA disavowed the tactic. The message is pretty clearly "police were killed. The mayor is anti police. We don't feel safe doing our jobs until he is on our side." Whether that position is accurate is open to debate, but I don't see how De Blasio comes out of this bearing no blame. The image of the police force turning their back on the mayor was a powerful one.
It's powerful alright. The wrong powerful message to send to the mayor, New York and the country.
It's hard to place all of that on them unless you are already going to be anti police in all instances IMO.
Wrong. This subject isn't as black and white as you're making it to be. You can criticize the police and not be anti-police.
The police are being very public about this being their idea to spite De Blaisio
he's not going to get the blame
I don't think that is true. The PBA disavowed the tactic. The message is pretty clearly "police were killed. The mayor is anti police. We don't feel safe doing our jobs until he is on our side." Whether that position is accurate is open to debate, but I don't see how De Blasio comes out of this bearing no blame. The image of the police force turning their back on the mayor was a powerful one.
It's powerful alright. The wrong powerful message to send to the mayor, New York and the country.
It's hard to place all of that on them unless you are already going to be anti police in all instances IMO.
Wrong. This subject isn't as black and white as you're making it to be. You can criticize the police and not be anti-police.
Just like I can criticize my UPS delivery person yet still be in favor of UPS.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Constant contract renegotiation has had the NYPD aligned against any given seated mayor for basically living memory.
The leadership of the union just thought they saw an opportunity to press the advantage of circumstance, so they had their members do something incredibly childish.
And now they're actively campaigning to convince the people of New York that they don't need the kind of hardass policing that the cops would rather they be allowed to do.
You really couldn't orchestrate a better illustration of how far detached the police leadership is from reality than they are right now.
Constant contract renegotiation has had the NYPD aligned against any given seated mayor for basically living memory.
The leadership of the union just thought they saw an opportunity to press the advantage of circumstance, so they had their members do something incredibly childish.
And now they're actively campaigning to convince the people of New York that they don't need the kind of hardass policing that the cops would rather they be allowed to do.
You really couldn't orchestrate a better illustration of how far detached the police leadership is from reality than they are right now.
Exactly. Now is not the time to do that so aggressively in the open. Especially when the public don't know about it, it makes them look like bigger dicks then they already were.
Why on earth do you guys think the public is going to have the right response to this?
Remember when we assumed Americans didn't like torture?
I think the average American's stance on torture would be different if they thought they might get tortured.
No, the white, upper-middle class people in America probably won't be sold on the idea that they are potential victims of police overreach. But anyone who doesn't look like June and/or Ward Cleaver is right to be worried here.
Why on earth do you guys think the public is going to have the right response to this?
Remember when we assumed Americans didn't like torture?
I think the average American's stance on torture would be different if they thought they might get tortured.
No, the white, upper-middle class people in America probably won't be sold on the idea that they are potential victims of police overreach. But anyone who doesn't look like June and/or Ward Cleaver is right to be worried here.
Those are the people who were worried before all of this.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Constant contract renegotiation has had the NYPD aligned against any given seated mayor for basically living memory.
The leadership of the union just thought they saw an opportunity to press the advantage of circumstance, so they had their members do something incredibly childish.
And now they're actively campaigning to convince the people of New York that they don't need the kind of hardass policing that the cops would rather they be allowed to do.
You really couldn't orchestrate a better illustration of how far detached the police leadership is from reality than they are right now.
I agree that it is surreal to have the police arguing against broken windows policing, but if it leads to things like Garner and thereby to officers becoming targets, then the argument seems reasonable to me.
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
Armed citizens participating in 'ambush journalism' on cops? Sounds like a plan! Why isn't this a reality show yet?
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
Armed citizens participating in 'ambush journalism' on cops? Sounds like a plan! Why isn't this a reality show yet?
I'm not saying it's smart, but people do stupid shit all the time that isn't illegal and don't face arrest for it.
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
Many black members of the NYPD would agree with this.
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough.
I'm sure they weren't pleased either. Keep in mind this in a post-Ferguson atmosphere which made the police extra edgy than they usually are.
This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths.
It's true. Being the son of a mayor isn't going to save him from racist cops, celebrity minorities and minority police officers are in danger as well. That's what happens when a police force embraces systemic racism and refuses to be accountable to the civilian government. This is no laughing matter. They took a learning moment and turned it into a rallying point for being vindictive assholes - when Ferguson is still on people's minds.
I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
This is America, everyone is armed. Thank the NRA. Those deaths were caused by a crazy person, there isn't a vigilante squad in NYC murdering cops by the dozens or anything. Also, they're cops in NYC, not baseball players - danger comes with the job.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
Do we just get to make things up now? The police union claims De Blasio created an "anti-police atmosphere" as part of the strike.
That you think police have a right to be fearful and angry because two cops died but black people shouldn't be despite the last few centuries of police needlessly killing black people makes it very clear you're not willing to treat this fairly.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
Shouting at a cop while doing so absolutely is. I have no problem with police detaining someone for shouting at anyone while brandishing guns.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
Many black members of the NYPD would agree with this.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
Shouting at a cop while doing so absolutely is. I have no problem with police detaining someone for shouting at anyone while brandishing guns.
The police's argument was never that the Gardner arrest made them targets. Their argument is that De Blaisio marginally supporting the protesters by not howling support for all cops ever was the problem.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
Many black members of the NYPD would agree with this.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
Shouting at a cop while doing so absolutely is. I have no problem with police detaining someone for shouting at anyone while brandishing guns.
Did you read my post?
Did you read mine? Or Choco's where he specified the group with members shouting at police while brandishing weapons?
Or are you assuming no one quoting it actually read it and are just all about arresting people for no reason? Cause that seems like a kind of unreasonable assumption to make about others.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
According to police, Cordova drove up to a traffic stop, got out of his car, and began yelling at officers and pulling up his vest to show them he was armed.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
Shouting at a cop while doing so absolutely is. I have no problem with police detaining someone for shouting at anyone while brandishing guns.
Did you read my post?
Did you read mine? Or Choco's where he specified the group with members shouting at police while brandishing weapons?
Or are you assuming no one quoting it actually read it and are just all about arresting people for no reason? Cause that seems like a kind of unreasonable assumption to make about others.
Again, a group filming Police while legally carrying is not illegal. Brandishing a firearm is. I agree that the person brandishing a firearm should have been detained, and he was. The article doesn't talk about the arrest or illegal activity of anyone else involved (regardless of the inflammatory headline).
However I do not agree with the implication that people doing something legal (filming the Police) while legally open carrying (WITHOUT brandishing their firearms) should be jailed simply for doing something legal (filming the police while legally openly carrying firearms). The statement was that groups like this, doing something entirely legal, should be jailed because they are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm (as one individual identified in the article did) is not just "trolling" but is also illegal.
So no I didn't assume no one read the article, I assumed, based on explicit statement, that the person I was replying to believes entire groups of people should be jailed because of legal activities.
I assumed, based on explicit statement, that the person I was replying to believes entire groups of people should be jailed because of legal activities.
That seems like a kind of unreasonable assumption to make about others.
I am all for recording the police, but this group sounds like they need to be thrown in a cell someplace. What they are doing is just straight up trolling and not helping anyone.
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Yes, and who takes the blame for it... I think it's short sighted of them.
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he's not going to get the blame
I don't think you are from the NYC area. Bloomberg was a transformative mayor. 311 alone was a huge change because it meant that it your land loser turned your heat off or a dead dog was left sitting on the street you could actually get it taken care of. The poor definitely benefit disproportionality by having access to those kinds of services increased.
I don't think that is true. The PBA disavowed the tactic. The message is pretty clearly "police were killed. The mayor is anti police. We don't feel safe doing our jobs until he is on our side." Whether that position is accurate is open to debate, but I don't see how De Blasio comes out of this bearing no blame. The image of the police force turning their back on the mayor was a powerful one. It's hard to place all of that on them unless you are already going to be anti police in all instances IMO.
De Blaiso did nothing to encourage violence against cops and everyone knows it.
I disagree incredibly strongly that the public hates them. A vocal minority hates them. This minority is over represented on this forum. But I do t think there is any evidence that the majority of the public hates the NYPD.
if cops don't want to take orders they need to find new jobs. If they can't take orders they're bad cops who should be fired immediately
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That's on the police, not De Blasio. They're throwing a temper tantrum over a mild criticism.
So what? I have to be from NYC to comment? Do you deny that Bloomberg isn't a progressive on the subjects I mentioned. Hilary Clinton is for gay marriage too, she's not a liberal.
I'm not saying he didn't do good things, I agree with him on a host of issues. He's not a saint like you're suggesting.
Cite, please.
It sounds like a compromise that backfired from a police department who have grown too comfortable with their power.
It's powerful alright. The wrong powerful message to send to the mayor, New York and the country.
Wrong. This subject isn't as black and white as you're making it to be. You can criticize the police and not be anti-police.
Just like I can criticize my UPS delivery person yet still be in favor of UPS.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The leadership of the union just thought they saw an opportunity to press the advantage of circumstance, so they had their members do something incredibly childish.
And now they're actively campaigning to convince the people of New York that they don't need the kind of hardass policing that the cops would rather they be allowed to do.
You really couldn't orchestrate a better illustration of how far detached the police leadership is from reality than they are right now.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Exactly. Now is not the time to do that so aggressively in the open. Especially when the public don't know about it, it makes them look like bigger dicks then they already were.
Remember when we assumed Americans didn't like torture?
No, the white, upper-middle class people in America probably won't be sold on the idea that they are potential victims of police overreach. But anyone who doesn't look like June and/or Ward Cleaver is right to be worried here.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Those are the people who were worried before all of this.
I agree that it is surreal to have the police arguing against broken windows policing, but if it leads to things like Garner and thereby to officers becoming targets, then the argument seems reasonable to me.
The position of the NYPD is that the Gardner death was a failure of training nothing else. They haven't said squat about broken windows policing being bad. In fact they swore up and down the roll back of stop and frisk would turn NYC into a 1980s warzone again.
This whole thing is the NYDd exploiting the deaths of two of their officers to get a mayor who won't roll over to the PBA to kiss their feet.
So you're "all for recording the police" but you think a group of people doing something legally should be jailed for no reason?
Armed citizens participating in 'ambush journalism' on cops? Sounds like a plan! Why isn't this a reality show yet?
It's true that they haven't come out against broken windows, but work to rule is basically the opposite of broken windows policing and it's what they are doing now.
They aren't mad he wasn't supportive enough. This all started with him saying he told his son to be wary of the police, which is laughable since he literally has a private NYPD security team. De Blasio was in the wrong to say that. It implies that all black people should be scared of the NYPD. That is an offensive statement from the mayor, but also a dangerous one, and it is my understanding that this is the remark that they have labeled as making him responsible for the deaths. I don't think it actually caused those two deaths, but a fearful, armed populace doea seem likely to result in police deaths.
Assuming that's what happened I am indeed okay with someone being arrested for something like that, yeah. The only part I find upsetting about the story is of course he looks like this:
I'm not saying it's smart, but people do stupid shit all the time that isn't illegal and don't face arrest for it.
Many black members of the NYPD would agree with this.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/us-usa-police-nypd-race-insight-idUSKBN0K11EV20141223
I'm sure they weren't pleased either. Keep in mind this in a post-Ferguson atmosphere which made the police extra edgy than they usually are.
It's true. Being the son of a mayor isn't going to save him from racist cops, celebrity minorities and minority police officers are in danger as well. That's what happens when a police force embraces systemic racism and refuses to be accountable to the civilian government. This is no laughing matter. They took a learning moment and turned it into a rallying point for being vindictive assholes - when Ferguson is still on people's minds.
This is America, everyone is armed. Thank the NRA. Those deaths were caused by a crazy person, there isn't a vigilante squad in NYC murdering cops by the dozens or anything. Also, they're cops in NYC, not baseball players - danger comes with the job.
The thing is, that IS illegal because he clearly brandished a firearm.
USACarry on Brandishing
What I was replying to was the implication that groups like CopBlock should be jailed because they don't like Police and are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm is not "trolling'.
Do we just get to make things up now? The police union claims De Blasio created an "anti-police atmosphere" as part of the strike.
That you think police have a right to be fearful and angry because two cops died but black people shouldn't be despite the last few centuries of police needlessly killing black people makes it very clear you're not willing to treat this fairly.
Shouting at a cop while doing so absolutely is. I have no problem with police detaining someone for shouting at anyone while brandishing guns.
This is hardly scientific. You can't draw conclusions from 25 people.
Did you read my post?
Then perhaps you should stop making conclusive statements given you can't be bothered to even cite a couple dozen people?
Did you read mine? Or Choco's where he specified the group with members shouting at police while brandishing weapons?
Or are you assuming no one quoting it actually read it and are just all about arresting people for no reason? Cause that seems like a kind of unreasonable assumption to make about others.
Again, a group filming Police while legally carrying is not illegal. Brandishing a firearm is. I agree that the person brandishing a firearm should have been detained, and he was. The article doesn't talk about the arrest or illegal activity of anyone else involved (regardless of the inflammatory headline).
However I do not agree with the implication that people doing something legal (filming the Police) while legally open carrying (WITHOUT brandishing their firearms) should be jailed simply for doing something legal (filming the police while legally openly carrying firearms). The statement was that groups like this, doing something entirely legal, should be jailed because they are "trolling". Brandishing a firearm (as one individual identified in the article did) is not just "trolling" but is also illegal.
So no I didn't assume no one read the article, I assumed, based on explicit statement, that the person I was replying to believes entire groups of people should be jailed because of legal activities.
That seems like a kind of unreasonable assumption to make about others.
It doesn't seem to be a very exaggerated statement to me.