Chicago area Burger King turns over security footage to the authorities from an incident where a cop shot a 17 year old kid sixteen times. Guess what happened?
McDonald was shot 16 times by a Chicago police officer on the night of October 20, 2014. Nine of the shots struck McDonald in the back, according to the Medical Examiners report.
...
After the shooting, according to Jay Darshane, the District Manager for Burger King, four to five police officers wearing blue and white shirts entered the restaurant and asked to view the video and were given the password to the equipment. Three hours later they left, he said.
The next day, when an investigator from the Independent Police Review Authority asked to view the security footage, it was discovered that the 86 minutes of video was missing.
I'm not even surprised anymore, just sad...
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
The point I'm trying to make with that post is not that paperwork is wonderful and everybody should want to do more paperwork
It's that when you are in a situation where you need to draw a gun, i.e. someone's life is threatened, if the first thing that comes to mind is, "But this is going to mean I have to do a stack of paperwork, so better to let someone get hurt or killed" then you need to reevaluate your occupation
Because I don't care how bad the paperwork is, there's no way that's ever actually a part of someone's mental calculus in a real life-threatening situation
I'm really having trouble picturing the scenario where the officer draws a gun that isn't already going to be generating paperwork. That the paperwork has to tick a box "Did you draw your weapon?" for record keeping purposes should not be a big deal.
They basically did that in NYC, and very quickly stopped when it became clear that the world was not ending and that perhaps things were actually better for those communities.
So now they're upping the ante in Baltimore and instead doing absolutely nothing in those areas as payback.
They basically did that in NYC, and very quickly stopped when it became clear that the world was not ending and that perhaps things were actually better for those communities.
So now they're upping the ante in Baltimore and instead doing absolutely nothing in those areas as payback.
The best part of the NYC thing was their language in describing it.
Like they basically came forwards and went "We're only arresting the people who have broken the law, so you'll see. YOU'LL ALL SEE"
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
The idea of waging a war on your own citizens is, itself, insidious and damaging to both the government and the relationship we have with it. Drugs are an infliction, not an insurgency, and it's the latter mentality that lends itself to police as armed and armored occupiers rather than peacekeepers. Ending the drug war is the single best (albeit not easiest) way to greatly improve the police issue at one stroke.
The idea of waging a war on your own citizens is, itself, insidious and damaging to both the government and the relationship we have with it. Drugs are an infliction, not an insurgency, and it's the latter mentality that lends itself to police as armed and armored occupiers rather than peacekeepers. Ending the drug war is the single best (albeit not easiest) way to greatly improve the police issue at one stroke.
A war must be committed, and you're right it shouldn't be on the country's own citizens. It should be on the gangs and cartels. The methods need to severely reformed and targeted at the right objectives. It also need to properly coordinated over multiple continents and countries.
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
Legalizing the harder stuff would make a big dent in eliminating the bolded part.
Legalizing it removes the dealers, then the war can become treatment, and addicts won't automatically be criminals.
Legalizing it helps a lot with drugs around the schools, once it's in stores/behind counter's they need a bootleg /buyer etc, just like alcohol, but at the moment, drugs are easier for kids to get because drug dealers don't have to bother with regulations and will just show up to schools at recess
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Vancouver's Insite, a safe injection site where people can take drugs in a safe environment also provides completely optional treatment services.
It has proven to be incredibly effective at reducing drug abuse and helping addicts start recovering. A lot more effective than throwing them in prison.
I'm not sure highly addictive or dangerous drugs like meth or heroin should be legalized, but I'm all for decriminalization and government provided treatment.
You do that, and the criminal market would wither and die.
Good cop (26 year veteran, even) who returned to work as an IA investigator was fired after refused to destroy video evidence for a case he was investigating. Called "Too opinionated".
Highway patrol troopers in Oklahoma fatally shot a man whom they had been trying to get out of high water, authorities said.
The two troopers responded to a stranded motorist call south of Tulsa late Friday and found two men with two vehicles, said Capt. Paul Timmons of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.
The troopers told the men to come toward them to safer ground out of the high water, Timmons said. But at some point, an altercation broke out.
The troopers fired, killing one of the men, 35-year-old Nehemiah Fischer, according to Timmons. They arrested the other man, Fischer's older brother, Brandon, who was uninjured.
The shooting is under investigation.
Timmons said Nehemiah Fischer, 35, was armed. But he said it was unclear why the altercation had broken out.
The highway patrol's practice is to place any patrolman involved in a fatal shooting on administrative leave. Timmons couldn't confirm whether that had been done yet for the two troopers in this case.
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
oohhh ok
yeah I support that for sure (rehab)
Just my personal experience on rehab vs arrest. In order for rehab to work, the addict has to want to quit. Most of the people I come into contact with just plain don't want to. So they go to rehab for a bit, promise me they will never end up seeing me and two weeks out of rehab, busted in the park again with a needle in their arm. Arrest, especially for the repeat offenders, will land some of these guys in prison for a good year without drugs where they can't get any drugs. I've seen more people out of prison try to kick it than I have people leaving rehab.
Drug abuse, generally speaking the hard stuff like meth and heroin, are often coupled with crime by the user. All they care about is their next hit and don't want to work so most of them resort to theft and burglary to make their money as mentioned by user above. I'm all for legalizing marijuana, most of the users of that don't bother me. Pretty sure my dentist smokes weed. Hard stuff use as I mentioned generally tends to lead someone to criminal activity
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
oohhh ok
yeah I support that for sure (rehab)
Just my personal experience on rehab vs arrest. In order for rehab to work, the addict has to want to quit. Most of the people I come into contact with just plain don't want to. So they go to rehab for a bit, promise me they will never end up seeing me and two weeks out of rehab, busted in the park again with a needle in their arm. Arrest, especially for the repeat offenders, will land some of these guys in prison for a good year without drugs where they can't get any drugs. I've seen more people out of prison try to kick it than I have people leaving rehab.
Drug abuse, generally speaking the hard stuff like meth and heroin, are often coupled with crime by the user. All they care about is their next hit and don't want to work so most of them resort to theft and burglary to make their money as mentioned by user above. I'm all for legalizing marijuana, most of the users of that don't bother me. Pretty sure my dentist smokes weed. Hard stuff use as I mentioned generally tends to lead someone to criminal activity
Last I checked, criminal activity is illegal whether somebody is high or not.
I am curious about why you think we have to arrest people for putting something in their body when you yourself say that people are committing real crimes with real victims that they could be arrested for instead.
I'm saying they are committing these crimes against people so they can afford to put stuff into their own body. Arresting them and putting them in jail will prevent them from committing these crimes
It's all a matter of deterrence, right? If you arrest a drug user before he commits a violent crime, then you have protected society from something worse.
In theory.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
I'm saying they are committing these crimes against people so they can afford to put stuff into their own body. Arresting them and putting them in jail will prevent them from committing these crimes
So you're saying you would be fine only arresting those drug users who are committing crimes while high instead of just busting drug users because pre-crime is apparently a thing now, and every single drug user ends up being a violent thief to support their habit?
Or are you in fact saying that people should be arrested before they commit what I would consider a real crime.
I'm saying they are committing these crimes against people so they can afford to put stuff into their own body. Arresting them and putting them in jail will prevent them from committing these crimes
Actually treating them and decriminalizing their habit will go far greater lengths in doing away with drug related crime. People with a problem shouldn't be treated like a criminal or housed with them.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
oohhh ok
yeah I support that for sure (rehab)
Just my personal experience on rehab vs arrest. In order for rehab to work, the addict has to want to quit. Most of the people I come into contact with just plain don't want to. So they go to rehab for a bit, promise me they will never end up seeing me and two weeks out of rehab, busted in the park again with a needle in their arm. Arrest, especially for the repeat offenders, will land some of these guys in prison for a good year without drugs where they can't get any drugs. I've seen more people out of prison try to kick it than I have people leaving rehab.
Drug abuse, generally speaking the hard stuff like meth and heroin, are often coupled with crime by the user. All they care about is their next hit and don't want to work so most of them resort to theft and burglary to make their money as mentioned by user above. I'm all for legalizing marijuana, most of the users of that don't bother me. Pretty sure my dentist smokes weed. Hard stuff use as I mentioned generally tends to lead someone to criminal activity
you're kidding right?
A.) Having done heroin and been addicted to cocaine (to the point where I was spending thousands on it) I never felt the need to go on a crime spree. Now granted I had a steady income and could support my drug habit, but I didn't need prison to kick my coke habit. I needed outpatient rehab and the knowledge that I was harming myself by doing so much of this shit. I have a hole in my nose I can stick a pen through because of coke. The day I found that out was the day I decided that I needed to do something about my addiction.
B.) Meth, heroin, coke, marijuana, alcohol. You can get them all in prison, fairly easily too. Which is pretty funny considering US prisons don't even have a treatment program in place for people addicted to drugs like heroin, and god forbid if you're on a methadone treatment program because you're out of luck there too.
C.) Arrest, especially for repeat offenders will ruin their fucking lives. It's wonderful that they kicked their habit, now if only they could find employment. And vote.
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
It is not a bad argument at all to say that both over policing and zero policing are bad things.
And society would be better served if the war on drugs was put to an end. And as a few states and DC have shown, they are under no obligation to assist the federal government in waging it.
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
oohhh ok
yeah I support that for sure (rehab)
Just my personal experience on rehab vs arrest. In order for rehab to work, the addict has to want to quit. Most of the people I come into contact with just plain don't want to. So they go to rehab for a bit, promise me they will never end up seeing me and two weeks out of rehab, busted in the park again with a needle in their arm. Arrest, especially for the repeat offenders, will land some of these guys in prison for a good year without drugs where they can't get any drugs. I've seen more people out of prison try to kick it than I have people leaving rehab.
Drug abuse, generally speaking the hard stuff like meth and heroin, are often coupled with crime by the user. All they care about is their next hit and don't want to work so most of them resort to theft and burglary to make their money as mentioned by user above. I'm all for legalizing marijuana, most of the users of that don't bother me. Pretty sure my dentist smokes weed. Hard stuff use as I mentioned generally tends to lead someone to criminal activity
and if you think they'll just land in prison for just a year have I got a bridge to sell you.
Just personal experience is all. I have arrested a lot of people for theft and burglary. During interview, logical question is why they did it. For many, answer was to pay for their next hit.
I can't tell you how many people I've arrested with a meth pipe or heroin rig with a backpack full of screwdrivers, wire strippers and other items used for burglaries.
So while you may not consider what they are being arrested for a crime, it still is. And I whole heartedly believe their arrest prevents them from victimizing someone else
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Just personal experience is all. I have arrested a lot of people for theft and burglary. During interview, logical question is why they did it. For many, answer was to pay for their next hit.
I can't tell you how many people I've arrested with a meth pipe or heroin rig with a backpack full of screwdrivers, wire strippers and other items used for burglaries.
So while you may not consider what they are being arrested for a crime, it still is. And I whole heartedly believe their arrest prevents them from victimizing someone else
Just personal experience is all. I have arrested a lot of people for theft and burglary. During interview, logical question is why they did it. For many, answer was to pay for their next hit.
I can't tell you how many people I've arrested with a meth pipe or heroin rig with a backpack full of screwdrivers, wire strippers and other items used for burglaries.
So while you may not consider what they are being arrested for a crime, it still is. And I whole heartedly believe their arrest prevents them from victimizing someone else
And you think it's the only way to prevent their committing crimes?
Because that's a pretty closed-minded viewpoint.
joshofalltrades on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Yeah, jail and prison is not rehab in any way shape or form, and you absolutely do not get off drugs when you are there. Because they are pretty damn plentiful.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Treating drug abuse as a public health issue and not a criminal justice issue is essentially a solved problem and whether individual law enforcement officers are on board with that is irrelevant although understandable. As a society we have passed the buck to police in order to pointedly not deal with poverty, drug addiction, and mental illness and so it's no surprise when trained police officers are made to believe that criminalization is an appropriate or effective response to these issues.
A more interesting conversation might be to assess districts or municipalities in which progressive police departments could be brought onboard with a campaign to enact more needle exchanges and other resources to be made available to drug addicts in order to increase their access to treatment and reduce the spread of disease and property crime.
Anyway, my personal experience is that a very good friend of mine had a slow slide into drugs that took a major toll. Started with the typical recreational use, and eventually slid into heroin abuse. Despite years and many many attempts at his friends trying (in vain) to get him help including every kind of treatment we could find his use persisted.
It only turned around for him when he was arrested for robbing a gas station for his next hit. Only while sitting in jail did he realize the depth and tragedy of his addiction. It hasn't been all sunshine and roses since he has been out, but he has been making a concerted effort to stay clean because he simply does not want to go through that again.
Fact was, for him anyway, rehab did not make him want to change. Only hitting total rock bottom did.
I'm clearly not going to change your minds. Like I said, I'm talking from personal experience. I think its' great Trace realized there is a problem and did something about it. The difference between you and the people I contact and arrest, you WANTED the change and did what you needed to do to change it. We have drug treatment facilities where these guys are in and out of and right back on the pipe/needle afterwards because they don't want to give it up.
I think we are getting off topic anyhow and according to you guys I'm clearly in the wrong anyway, so no sense in going back and forth.
Anyway, my personal experience is that a very good friend of mine had a slow slide into drugs that took a major toll. Started with the typical recreational use, and eventually slid into heroin abuse. Despite years and many many attempts at his friends trying (in vain) to get him help including every kind of treatment we could find his use persisted.
It only turned around for him when he was arrested for robbing a gas station for his next hit. Only while sitting in jail did he realize the depth and tragedy of his addiction. It hasn't been all sunshine and roses since he has been out, but he has been making a concerted effort to stay clean because he simply does not want to go through that again.
Fact was, for him anyway, rehab did not make him want to change. Only hitting total rock bottom did.
Rehab likely didn't help because we suck at dealing with addiction and mental disorders in general. Facilities are commonly underfunded and understaffed by people who are undereducated about effective rehabilitation.
If we put some of the money that we are funneling to the drug war towards rehab instead you will see results improve drastically.
Anyway, your story is anecdotal, and I know it's annoying when people bring that up, but we can't talk about dealing with a nationwide problem based on your friend's subjective personal prison experience with getting arrested turning his life around. Because it is objectively and empirically harmful to many, many others.
Posts
I'm not even surprised anymore, just sad...
Just the same, no one in this thread is saying paperwork isn't scary.
It's just that if it scares you enough that you would consider dying as an alternative to doing it, you might be a silly goose.
Uh, the post that started this part of the discussion was literally:
So no, that is not correct at all. Someone very literally questioned that.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Fair enough man, fair enough.
It's that when you are in a situation where you need to draw a gun, i.e. someone's life is threatened, if the first thing that comes to mind is, "But this is going to mean I have to do a stack of paperwork, so better to let someone get hurt or killed" then you need to reevaluate your occupation
Because I don't care how bad the paperwork is, there's no way that's ever actually a part of someone's mental calculus in a real life-threatening situation
So win-win.
So now they're upping the ante in Baltimore and instead doing absolutely nothing in those areas as payback.
The best part of the NYC thing was their language in describing it.
Like they basically came forwards and went "We're only arresting the people who have broken the law, so you'll see. YOU'LL ALL SEE"
I have a question about this that may belong in this thread and may not.
What do you mean the war on drugs should be put to an end?
Pot? sure, whatever, that's fine.
Cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
that shit needs to have a war fought on it. Take it from a guy whose house is sandwiched between a coke head and a heroin house. Thank god I have a big dog, because every other house in the area has been robbed by them at one point or another. Usually looking for pills to take or sell.
It's the idea that we can arrest our way out of a drug crisis, especially when we're sending them to private prisons. Breaking and entering, robbery, burglary, and murder ought to get you sent to prison. Drug addiction should get you sent to rehab. We barely have any concept of the latter.
oohhh ok
yeah I support that for sure (rehab)
A war must be committed, and you're right it shouldn't be on the country's own citizens. It should be on the gangs and cartels. The methods need to severely reformed and targeted at the right objectives. It also need to properly coordinated over multiple continents and countries.
Legalizing the harder stuff would make a big dent in eliminating the bolded part.
Legalizing it removes the dealers, then the war can become treatment, and addicts won't automatically be criminals.
Legalizing it helps a lot with drugs around the schools, once it's in stores/behind counter's they need a bootleg /buyer etc, just like alcohol, but at the moment, drugs are easier for kids to get because drug dealers don't have to bother with regulations and will just show up to schools at recess
It has proven to be incredibly effective at reducing drug abuse and helping addicts start recovering. A lot more effective than throwing them in prison.
I'm not sure highly addictive or dangerous drugs like meth or heroin should be legalized, but I'm all for decriminalization and government provided treatment.
You do that, and the criminal market would wither and die.
Good cop (26 year veteran, even) who returned to work as an IA investigator was fired after refused to destroy video evidence for a case he was investigating. Called "Too opinionated".
Just my personal experience on rehab vs arrest. In order for rehab to work, the addict has to want to quit. Most of the people I come into contact with just plain don't want to. So they go to rehab for a bit, promise me they will never end up seeing me and two weeks out of rehab, busted in the park again with a needle in their arm. Arrest, especially for the repeat offenders, will land some of these guys in prison for a good year without drugs where they can't get any drugs. I've seen more people out of prison try to kick it than I have people leaving rehab.
Drug abuse, generally speaking the hard stuff like meth and heroin, are often coupled with crime by the user. All they care about is their next hit and don't want to work so most of them resort to theft and burglary to make their money as mentioned by user above. I'm all for legalizing marijuana, most of the users of that don't bother me. Pretty sure my dentist smokes weed. Hard stuff use as I mentioned generally tends to lead someone to criminal activity
Last I checked, criminal activity is illegal whether somebody is high or not.
I am curious about why you think we have to arrest people for putting something in their body when you yourself say that people are committing real crimes with real victims that they could be arrested for instead.
In theory.
So you're saying you would be fine only arresting those drug users who are committing crimes while high instead of just busting drug users because pre-crime is apparently a thing now, and every single drug user ends up being a violent thief to support their habit?
Or are you in fact saying that people should be arrested before they commit what I would consider a real crime.
Actually treating them and decriminalizing their habit will go far greater lengths in doing away with drug related crime. People with a problem shouldn't be treated like a criminal or housed with them.
you're kidding right?
A.) Having done heroin and been addicted to cocaine (to the point where I was spending thousands on it) I never felt the need to go on a crime spree. Now granted I had a steady income and could support my drug habit, but I didn't need prison to kick my coke habit. I needed outpatient rehab and the knowledge that I was harming myself by doing so much of this shit. I have a hole in my nose I can stick a pen through because of coke. The day I found that out was the day I decided that I needed to do something about my addiction.
B.) Meth, heroin, coke, marijuana, alcohol. You can get them all in prison, fairly easily too. Which is pretty funny considering US prisons don't even have a treatment program in place for people addicted to drugs like heroin, and god forbid if you're on a methadone treatment program because you're out of luck there too.
C.) Arrest, especially for repeat offenders will ruin their fucking lives. It's wonderful that they kicked their habit, now if only they could find employment. And vote.
and if you think they'll just land in prison for just a year have I got a bridge to sell you.
I can't tell you how many people I've arrested with a meth pipe or heroin rig with a backpack full of screwdrivers, wire strippers and other items used for burglaries.
So while you may not consider what they are being arrested for a crime, it still is. And I whole heartedly believe their arrest prevents them from victimizing someone else
but not the state from victimizing them
And you think it's the only way to prevent their committing crimes?
Because that's a pretty closed-minded viewpoint.
A more interesting conversation might be to assess districts or municipalities in which progressive police departments could be brought onboard with a campaign to enact more needle exchanges and other resources to be made available to drug addicts in order to increase their access to treatment and reduce the spread of disease and property crime.
Anyway, my personal experience is that a very good friend of mine had a slow slide into drugs that took a major toll. Started with the typical recreational use, and eventually slid into heroin abuse. Despite years and many many attempts at his friends trying (in vain) to get him help including every kind of treatment we could find his use persisted.
It only turned around for him when he was arrested for robbing a gas station for his next hit. Only while sitting in jail did he realize the depth and tragedy of his addiction. It hasn't been all sunshine and roses since he has been out, but he has been making a concerted effort to stay clean because he simply does not want to go through that again.
Fact was, for him anyway, rehab did not make him want to change. Only hitting total rock bottom did.
I think we are getting off topic anyhow and according to you guys I'm clearly in the wrong anyway, so no sense in going back and forth.
Rehab likely didn't help because we suck at dealing with addiction and mental disorders in general. Facilities are commonly underfunded and understaffed by people who are undereducated about effective rehabilitation.
If we put some of the money that we are funneling to the drug war towards rehab instead you will see results improve drastically.
Anyway, your story is anecdotal, and I know it's annoying when people bring that up, but we can't talk about dealing with a nationwide problem based on your friend's subjective personal prison experience with getting arrested turning his life around. Because it is objectively and empirically harmful to many, many others.