Moonrise, the last bastion of fun Pinny Arcade interactions.
Qumaden
World's Mightiest MortalRegistered User regular
World's Mightiest MortalRegistered User regular
in Pinny Arcade
So my Day 1 of PAX South is over, I'm old, tired, and sick.
Things I've learned:
1. @Retnus and the merch team pulled off what could have been a pure pin fiasco(none of the pins arrived at the convention center until the afternoon), and handled it with style, grace, humility and all around class. For those of us who lined up early for pins, they simply printed a voucher and made a list, when the pins got there, they sent out a tweet, you walked up with your voucher, brian checked you off the list, apologized and gave you your pins. Well handled.
2. Undead Labs are apparently the only company that wants to actually use then pins as they were originally intended. Everyone is just selling pins, or even worse in the case of the Ugin MTG pin; making us spend not just time, not just money, but time and money to get the pin. On top of that, they're limiting the pin to one per person. Not one per day, one per person total. They're marring up the badges, and treating people like fucking criminals under investigation looking at the back of badges. Terrible job. Not sure if WOTC has any say in the matter since Channel Fireball is running all the events, or if it's just a couple of douchers on a power trip so they can sell the pins on ebay when the convention is over...either way I'm not a happy camper. I've played MTG since I was thirteen(20 years...) and this strongly has me leaning towards never giving them another cent of my money.
3. Undead Labs, a three part pin, one for each US PAX that can match up? That's nuts, they're all in on the freaking pin train and I love it, I hope to see the pin community back their products as thanks for staying classy.
Things I've learned:
1. @Retnus and the merch team pulled off what could have been a pure pin fiasco(none of the pins arrived at the convention center until the afternoon), and handled it with style, grace, humility and all around class. For those of us who lined up early for pins, they simply printed a voucher and made a list, when the pins got there, they sent out a tweet, you walked up with your voucher, brian checked you off the list, apologized and gave you your pins. Well handled.
2. Undead Labs are apparently the only company that wants to actually use then pins as they were originally intended. Everyone is just selling pins, or even worse in the case of the Ugin MTG pin; making us spend not just time, not just money, but time and money to get the pin. On top of that, they're limiting the pin to one per person. Not one per day, one per person total. They're marring up the badges, and treating people like fucking criminals under investigation looking at the back of badges. Terrible job. Not sure if WOTC has any say in the matter since Channel Fireball is running all the events, or if it's just a couple of douchers on a power trip so they can sell the pins on ebay when the convention is over...either way I'm not a happy camper. I've played MTG since I was thirteen(20 years...) and this strongly has me leaning towards never giving them another cent of my money.
3. Undead Labs, a three part pin, one for each US PAX that can match up? That's nuts, they're all in on the freaking pin train and I love it, I hope to see the pin community back their products as thanks for staying classy.
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But, MTG, ugh. Originally they posted that you could bring a commander deck & pay $5, play a game with 3 others & essentially get 30 tickets (the cost of the Ugin pin). I even stopped by the booth to ask about it & told them I brought the decks, etc. They said playing commander was available until 7 pm. Then, I bring my 4 decks & 3 friends, only to be told they pulled that "2 weeks ago." Apparently play commander if you want, but get zero tickets. Garbage.
I understand keeping things rare, but this is beyond ridiculous. They even make sure to blow on the ink on the badge, so that you can't try to wipe it off.
Dinotimecopforce.com
I wiped mine off standing at the booth. Probably not a good idea as I've got pretty distinguishable police line up qualities, but I was super pissed at this d-bag snatching by badge and blowing on it.
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[X]PAXsouth 2015
[X]PAXaus 2015
[?]PAXeast 2016 ???
Also they have their previous pins, priced in the 100-400 tickets range.
Dinotimecopforce.com
Elspeth - 200 tix
Garruk (either half) - 500 tix
East or Aus Chandra - 800 tix
So ya kinda overinflated considering if you 4-0 a tourney, you net 180 points.
Also, dont be quick to judge WotC here, I honestly doubt there is an actual WotC employee here. The entire event is being run by an magic events coodinator called Channel Fireball, and I think WotC gave em the pins and told em to distrubute them, but couldnt sell them directly. CF just found the loophole, and being an events buisness, they make money and sell product this way, a win win. This is all just speculation, of course, and I have no idea why the absurd rule on distribution of one person per con, just how I see em.
However saying screw you to three day badgers when single dayers get one a day, and physically grabbing my badge to blow on it to blow it dry?!? Uncalled for.
My pins are right here!
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This one here:
a.Policy Overview
i.It is understood that all attendees will be able to operate in a state of comfort and privacy without intrusion or disturbance, and that their personal belongings will not be altered or disturbed. If anyone’s belongings are found to have been disturbed or restricted, remediation will take place.
b.Definitions
i.Privacy: A state of being free from intrusion and disturbance in one’s personal state of affairs as well as physical presence.
ii.Personal Belongings: Includes any items owned by an entity.
c.Remediation
i.Anyone who engages in behavior or that violates the privacy intentions as stated above will be reprimanded and have their badge removed contingent on the severity of the claim as reported to PAX show management.
So, all in all sounds pretty disappointing. Always bound to be some wrinkles with a new PAX, hope PA jump on this and pull the exhibitor into line.
That said, I don't really have a problem with an exhibitor putting whatever ridiculous restrictions they like on a pin if they plan to give it to you for free. I mean, Leeroy J sounded like a pain in the ass, but in the end you got a free pin.
With this Ugin pin, it sounds very different. I mean, you can't get the pin without spending money, so there is no reason to treat attendees like crap and screw with their stuff. Poor show.
Only a mere 136 pins to go!
“I let out a battle cry. Sure, a lot of people might have mistaken it for a sudden yelp of unmanly fear, but trust me. It was a battle cry.”
I did give him a lot of feedback about the mismatch in intentions and perceptions about the whole process. He agreed completely that the intro tournaments weren't working out as planned at all. The prizes for winning were removed and tix were given upfront so that it would be a casual and inviting atmosphere for beginners to learn. This of course turned into a $20 pin, with 60-80% of participants abandoning after the first game.
Prize wall man even got heckled by some guy for 20-40 minutes about how marking badges is a cardinal sin. Yeah, I hate it too, but it sure beats getting a hole punched in your badge (standard at Dota2 events for picking up a swag bag).
tl;dr - it's only day1. While it sucks for pinny pals, they seem to have the best intentions in mind for pax south attendees. Hopefully they have a crapton left on Sunday and start handing them out for free at the end.
Maybe tomorrow they will require you to log your social security number before getting one :rolleyes:
http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
I mean if a lot of people aren't going to have an extra to trade away seems like it might be more prudent to just buy one. Thoughts?
Another year of Prime gone by... commence the struggle!
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My Pinny Pal's Lanyard
"Players are artists who create their own reality within the game." - Shigeru Miyamoto
I think you want to wait a few days after the event anyway. During the event you have the crazies like myself and my homie Jake there, sitting at home paying top dollar for stuff we are missing out on. Early next week there will be a few days of lull before the new hard cores get warmed up for the eBay dance off.
And they broke the golden rule of Pax "DON'T BE A DICK".
From the vendor's perspective, these are marketing tools. They want to sell their stuff, and this is a way to increase those sales. They see people getting multiples as one sale less to a different person.
Problem is, that just isn't fucking so. People collecting for others are helping them build brand recognition and loyalty for those who aren't attending. Magic fans want the complete set of Magic Pins, and as is evident from the post above, some fans will be turned off the products by this attitude withholding Pins from those trying to help their friends.
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My Digital Pin Lanyard
I have a feeling Wizards won't be allowed to just let a 3rd party handle pin distribution and change the rules anymore. I might be wrong though.
Really?! Time and money. Oh no!!! How long did you wait in line and spend on the LE pin? Sounds like Penny Arcade screwed you on time and money for a pin too. Better stop giving them anymore of your money.
And criminal for looking at the back of your badge? Were you trying to screw them over after being told it was limit one per badge by being special and getting more then one? WotC decided to limit it to one per badge. What makes you so special you should get more then one?
From the bottom of my heart, I hope you enjoyed your PAX and that all of your hopes and dreams come true in life. I don't know your experience with the staff at the MTG booth, but we obviously had very different ones. Snatching my badge and marking it up while treating me like I was committing come crime by getting a pin kind of violates several of the PAX rules, as well as Wheatons Law. Had they just told me that I could only get one and were halfway civil about it, it wouldn't have been as big an issue. I had, as well as from the conversations I had with many other pin collectors seemed to have had, a very horrible experience with the booth and staff.
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It was bad, I'm sure all parties involved know this, and we'll just have to wait and see what happens next.
Firstly i remember a while ago (in one of Pedros Q@A's) that after PA gives a partner their pins, its basically up to the partner to distribute how they want. its unfortunate that WotC decided on this rule but thats just how it went this time.
For the record I dont particularly agree with their choice. I believe that if a person is willing to spend the time and or money at your booth then they should be entitled to another round at whatever theyre offering. I only see limits on purchases for the show exclusive pins, where its available to literally anyone goin. The Ugin pin, even if it was a 1000 pin limit, wouldnt have had the kind of numbers going through (almost everyone goes through merch, not everyone Plays magic)
I think the contract that they have is actually pretty loose on this. Given PA's approach to treating someone else's IP with respect, they are most likely to leave it up to the IP owner. I believe there is a minimum price stipulation based on conversations with Behemoth after Prime.
It might do PA well to alter things somewhat. Maybe it doesn't need to be ironclad in the contracts, but as @maywest said on the podcast segment, these are Trading Pins. Saying one to each person means trades are unlikely. When we spoke to @Robert Khoo one thing that was discussed was the minimum buy. Measuring booth throughput and coming up with an estimate for the right number of Pins would be a huge help. They should talk to Undead Labs, who apparently have gotten this down to a fine art.
I cannot speak highly of Undead Labs enough. Their staff were fantastic, and even though they were doing the "Do the Demo, Get a Pin" method, they were generous and understanding for those in Pin groups, especially with Australian pals. They ended PAX with just a few handfuls of Pins left (at least on the Moonrise side) and if every vendor used their method to estimate the throughput/Pin ratio it would help a lot. On the State of Decay side, even though they lacked sufficient demo stations (3 stations for a 20-30 minute demo means throughput of just 6-9/hr) they corrected as best they could by doubling up, so one person played and one could really talk and absorb what the vendor said. 6-18/hr is a larger variance but helps increase the average.
The throughput of the WotC (or rather Fireball) stand was very poor. Doing the Hunt for Garruk took at minimum one hour, because there was a wait to sign up and pay, then a wait whilst they put together the list, then a wait whilst they distributed the cards, and another wait whilst they distributed the prize tickets. Draft took even longer, and even though they were putting multiple people through at the same time the prize numbers meant that a lot of people did little besides play Magic.
One issue some people had was that the stuff on the prize wall was unavailable for purchase. T-shirts, other items as well as Pins were all prize only. Those who wanted them didn't want to spend that much time doing one thing at a convention with so many options.
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My Digital Pin Lanyard
Don't know if I necessarily agree with limiting pins to that extent but I guess it really is up to the people manning the booth. I mean look at The Order pin, that was flat out dumb but there is nothing you can really do about it.
Another year of Prime gone by... commence the struggle!
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dchoy
The marking in and of itself isn't really the problem so much as the reason and attitude that came with it. One per person per convention breaks the idea of them being Trading Pins. Those with 3 single-day badges would have three chances to get the Pin, whilst 3 day badge holders get only one. (This assumes people don't find ways to remove the mark.) When this is pointed out, the staff apparently replied that they don't care.
"This pin is not actually a PAX product, it is a product of wizards of the coast"
Staff would actively prevent people trading by telling non-Pin traders that "the Pin is going for $50 on ebay."
Staff would grab the lanyard around your neck and pull it towards them to mark it without saying anything or even making eye contact first. If you didn't know what they were doing it could freak someone out.
As to there being nothing we can do about it, we can talk to those at PA. Khoo made it clear that despite us being a minority of a minority, the feedback we provide will be listened to. I doubt they will make radical changes to the system, but there will be small alterations. One thing that seems likely at some point is an increase in the minimum for vendors, which would help both hardcore and casual collectors alike, since an increase in the availability should decrease the fervour to rush and get them all first day of PAX and make it easier to trade to get extras for your Pin group.
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