We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
I'm talking about why Danny O'Dwyer chose to do a video about it, because I am not following some script?
Like, this isn't an A B conversation I should C my way out of, I made a post about my thoughts on a thing
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
I'm talking about why Danny O'Dwyer chose to do a video about it, because I am not following some script?
Like, this isn't an A B conversation I should C my way out of, I made a post about my thoughts on a thing
I hadn't seen your post when I made mine, I apologize if you thought this was meant to be a barb at you specifically (I DO have some barbs prepped, but have not deployed them).
Your rationalization for why Danny's covering it is fine, but it's still giving the game his time and coverage and eyeballs that could be spent on a game that's worth promoting. That's a decision that can be criticized, no?
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
I absolutely would have zero problem not selling a product made by someone who was an outspoken bigot.
Par example: I would not stock a book by Richie Santorum were I the owner of a hot new book store where all the cashiers were male models in thongs.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
I absolutely would have zero problem not selling a product made by someone who was an outspoken bigot.
Par example: I would not stock a book by Richie Santorum were I the owner of a hot new book store where all the cashiers were male models in thongs.
And that's cool!
But I think its also valid to make the choice to not make value judgments on the creators beleifs
Again, we are talking about the beleifs of the creator
If the game was fervently pro neonazi I think that would be different
But I'm not going to not sell something because of a disagreement I have with someone's views if those views aren't in the product
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
I absolutely would have zero problem not selling a product made by someone who was an outspoken bigot.
Par example: I would not stock a book by Richie Santorum were I the owner of a hot new book store where all the cashiers were male models in thongs.
And that's cool!
But I think its also valid to make the choice to not make value judgments on the creators beleifs
Again, we are talking about the beleifs of the creator
If the game was fervently pro neonazi I think that would be different
But I'm not going to not sell something because of a disagreement I have with someone's views if those views aren't in the product
Sure, let's say his book was about kittens and how great they are.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
I absolutely would have zero problem not selling a product made by someone who was an outspoken bigot.
Par example: I would not stock a book by Richie Santorum were I the owner of a hot new book store where all the cashiers were male models in thongs.
And that's cool!
But I think its also valid to make the choice to not make value judgments on the creators beleifs
Again, we are talking about the beleifs of the creator
If the game was fervently pro neonazi I think that would be different
But I'm not going to not sell something because of a disagreement I have with someone's views if those views aren't in the product
Sure, let's say his book was about kittens and how great they are.
We're not even discussing the game's content here. The game will be making real neo nazis real money. With that reality in mind, if you run a store, do you sell it? If you run a game website, do you provide it access to your platform? These are the questions we're discussing.
See this is so repeated that it has become thread truth by now, but is pretty embellished. They're dicks with some discernible ties to righ-wing hate groups, sure, but I've a hard time believing that their developer meetings looks something like this:
There are plenty of ordinary unsympatethic bigots out there, that doesn't dream of establishing the theird reich. I think there would be plenty to call those people out on already.
It's a tricky situation, ethically. Because sellers have an onus to not support products from people with objectionable personal lives, then would they not also have an onus to research every creator of every product, because otherwise how are they to know? As a consumer you have almost certainly indirectly supported some awful, awful people. I feel like if you're going to make a stand about that stuff, the truly ethical thing to do is to go whole-hog with it and only support products that you know were made by people you judge as good. Otherwise you're cherry picking ethical issues based on personal benefit.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
Yeah, you play a nihilistic guy in Hatred but it's clear that the point is killing minorities and women and "those damn politically correct liberal pussies" and such.
It's a dog whistle loud enough that humans can hear it.
It's a tricky situation, ethically. Because sellers have an onus to not support products from people with objectionable personal lives, then would they not also have an onus to research every creator of every product, because otherwise how are they to know? As a consumer you have almost certainly indirectly supported some awful, awful people. I feel like if you're going to make a stand about that stuff, the truly ethical thing to do is to go whole-hog with it and only support products that you know were made by people you judge as good. Otherwise you're cherry picking ethical issues based on personal benefit.
I would never give a site or store shit for carrying something, finding out its creator or manufacturer is a terrible bigot, and then reacting to that information after the fact by removing the product. That's just a "go with the info you have" sort of situation that could sorta happen to any person or company. Everyone makes mistakes.
In a situation where you know this moral question exists, I believe you're obligated to confront it when you determine whether to sell something.
It's a tricky situation, ethically. Because sellers have an onus to not support products from people with objectionable personal lives, then would they not also have an onus to research every creator of every product, because otherwise how are they to know? As a consumer you have almost certainly indirectly supported some awful, awful people. I feel like if you're going to make a stand about that stuff, the truly ethical thing to do is to go whole-hog with it and only support products that you know were made by people you judge as good. Otherwise you're cherry picking ethical issues based on personal benefit.
It's not even "almost certainly" - if you have ever bought anything from any major retailer, you have 100% supported someone with beliefs you would find abhorrent. There's absolutely no getting around it.
It's a tricky situation, ethically. Because sellers have an onus to not support products from people with objectionable personal lives, then would they not also have an onus to research every creator of every product, because otherwise how are they to know? As a consumer you have almost certainly indirectly supported some awful, awful people. I feel like if you're going to make a stand about that stuff, the truly ethical thing to do is to go whole-hog with it and only support products that you know were made by people you judge as good. Otherwise you're cherry picking ethical issues based on personal benefit.
I would never give a site or store shit for carrying something, finding out its creator or manufacturer is a terrible bigot, and then reacting to that information after the fact by removing the product. That's just a "go with the info you have" sort of situation that could sorta happen to any person or company. Everyone makes mistakes.
In a situation where you know this moral question exists, I believe you're obligated to confront it when you determine whether to sell something.
For me, if someone wants to buy something from someone shitty, that's up to thwm
I will absolutely take a cut of the money and do something worthwhile with it
I wont sell something that actively promotes those views, and I wont buy something from someone with those views
It's a tricky situation, ethically. Because sellers have an onus to not support products from people with objectionable personal lives, then would they not also have an onus to research every creator of every product, because otherwise how are they to know? As a consumer you have almost certainly indirectly supported some awful, awful people. I feel like if you're going to make a stand about that stuff, the truly ethical thing to do is to go whole-hog with it and only support products that you know were made by people you judge as good. Otherwise you're cherry picking ethical issues based on personal benefit.
I would never give a site or store shit for carrying something, finding out its creator or manufacturer is a terrible bigot, and then reacting to that information after the fact by removing the product. That's just a "go with the info you have" sort of situation that could sorta happen to any person or company. Everyone makes mistakes.
In a situation where you know this moral question exists, I believe you're obligated to confront it when you determine whether to sell something.
So if you should "go with the info you have" and you also have an impetus to not sell stuff made by bigots, then how do you not have a responsibility to seek out that information before carrying a product? Based on that ethical view, you should be background checking all products, because relying on someone to tell you that what you're doing is unethical is, itself ethically unsound.
Posts
Oh
Yes
I probably wouldn't stock hard copies in my store
It's capitalism. The creators don't matter, only the product does. The average person buying the game doesn't know that the creators are neo-nazis, so that fact really isn't relevant to most storefronts.
I'm talking about why Danny O'Dwyer chose to do a video about it, because I am not following some script?
Like, this isn't an A B conversation I should C my way out of, I made a post about my thoughts on a thing
I'm pretty sure I said in almost every post I've made on this topic that from a purely monetary perspective it makes sense to sell/write about the game.
Ethics also exist.
I hadn't seen your post when I made mine, I apologize if you thought this was meant to be a barb at you specifically (I DO have some barbs prepped, but have not deployed them).
Your rationalization for why Danny's covering it is fine, but it's still giving the game his time and coverage and eyeballs that could be spent on a game that's worth promoting. That's a decision that can be criticized, no?
Personally I would find it equally unethical for myself to choose not to sell a game based on its creators beliefs than it would be to be financially compensated for selling the product of a person I did not agree with
Vee vant zee money, Bagel
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I absolutely would have zero problem not selling a product made by someone who was an outspoken bigot.
Par example: I would not stock a book by Richie Santorum were I the owner of a hot new book store where all the cashiers were male models in thongs.
Its cool to disagree with that call but I definitely don't think he's somehow being unethical by doing so?
Like his reasons given are nearly wholly ethics based
Actually some of us are
exposing how flawed and in fact unethical your ethics are, duh
do you see the light yet
And that's cool!
But I think its also valid to make the choice to not make value judgments on the creators beleifs
Again, we are talking about the beleifs of the creator
If the game was fervently pro neonazi I think that would be different
But I'm not going to not sell something because of a disagreement I have with someone's views if those views aren't in the product
Especially if it's a bad game and you say hey this is a bad game, there's no real reason to play it
Sure, let's say his book was about kittens and how great they are.
Still wouldn't stock it.
And like I said, that's cool, but I would
Well yes, but you are enriching people who are and could easily use that money to further initiatives that erode the rights of gay people.
There are plenty of ordinary unsympatethic bigots out there, that doesn't dream of establishing the theird reich. I think there would be plenty to call those people out on already.
I say they are not too much enough
That's not equivalent, john
I wouldn't BUY from a company that has those kinds of policies
Because I'm directly funding them
I would, however, sell their product, because if other people want to give them money, that's fine, that's their choice
Plus I get a cut of it and can do good things with it
That's a good Islamic point.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Talk
Without you being incredibly hostile to me?
It's a dog whistle loud enough that humans can hear it.
pack it up, folks
I would never give a site or store shit for carrying something, finding out its creator or manufacturer is a terrible bigot, and then reacting to that information after the fact by removing the product. That's just a "go with the info you have" sort of situation that could sorta happen to any person or company. Everyone makes mistakes.
In a situation where you know this moral question exists, I believe you're obligated to confront it when you determine whether to sell something.
It's not even "almost certainly" - if you have ever bought anything from any major retailer, you have 100% supported someone with beliefs you would find abhorrent. There's absolutely no getting around it.
For me, if someone wants to buy something from someone shitty, that's up to thwm
I will absolutely take a cut of the money and do something worthwhile with it
I wont sell something that actively promotes those views, and I wont buy something from someone with those views
But those are different things
So if you should "go with the info you have" and you also have an impetus to not sell stuff made by bigots, then how do you not have a responsibility to seek out that information before carrying a product? Based on that ethical view, you should be background checking all products, because relying on someone to tell you that what you're doing is unethical is, itself ethically unsound.
p good