The big thing with electric vehicles is that their energy is as clean as the power grid. Don't feel they are clean enough, just upgrade the grid if you can.
Also Volvo phasing out gas powered engines in 2019 will put more pressure on governments to build more infrastructure to support them and you already have demand from Tesla owners. The more people that have a need for a place to charge their vehicle, the more likely an elected official would push for policy that address that need. Eventually, a government somewhere will pass the law that requires all new vehicles in their nation to be either hybrid or electric.
Although I tend to lean free market, I think it would be awesome if some state would do this. Say California. If successful it would take hold across the country. I have a feeling we are 20 years away from battery tech that can compete with gasoline but California is pretty rich and early adoption seems to require being rich.
Never will happen in CA, we are too big. The charging infrastructure needed would be insane. That said, a few of the richer New England states like NJ or NY could likely pull it off. Sure there would be plenty of out of state gas engines, but with some in state incentives and a good charging infrastructure I'm sure it would pretty strongly increase the pressure on all surrounding states to make the change as well, until it finally went national.
I think we'll see a country doing it before a US state does. As for the US, it's kind of up in the air in regards to how it happens. It could come about as a result of the foreign market because once the only vehicle you can sell in those are hybrid and electric, not much point in putting work into new gasoline only models; especially, if there is demand in the US for hybrids and electric vehicles. I state might force it through depending on what kind of government have at the time because people decide to hold and their is a compelling public health argument for dropping gasoline only engines. Could even be a court ordered thing, once the infrastructure and tech is in place for hybrid and electric models and someone makes the case that gasoline only models are purely a public health hazard.
The big thing with electric vehicles is that their energy is as clean as the power grid. Don't feel they are clean enough, just upgrade the grid if you can.
Also Volvo phasing out gas powered engines in 2019 will put more pressure on governments to build more infrastructure to support them and you already have demand from Tesla owners. The more people that have a need for a place to charge their vehicle, the more likely an elected official would push for policy that address that need. Eventually, a government somewhere will pass the law that requires all new vehicles in their nation to be either hybrid or electric.
Although I tend to lean free market, I think it would be awesome if some state would do this. Say California. If successful it would take hold across the country. I have a feeling we are 20 years away from battery tech that can compete with gasoline but California is pretty rich and early adoption seems to require being rich.
California pretty much already did it. You can't build an all gasoline vehicle which meets their 2025 emission standards (or somewhere therabouts)
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The big thing with electric vehicles is that their energy is as clean as the power grid. Don't feel they are clean enough, just upgrade the grid if you can.
Also Volvo phasing out gas powered engines in 2019 will put more pressure on governments to build more infrastructure to support them and you already have demand from Tesla owners. The more people that have a need for a place to charge their vehicle, the more likely an elected official would push for policy that address that need. Eventually, a government somewhere will pass the law that requires all new vehicles in their nation to be either hybrid or electric.
Although I tend to lean free market, I think it would be awesome if some state would do this. Say California. If successful it would take hold across the country. I have a feeling we are 20 years away from battery tech that can compete with gasoline but California is pretty rich and early adoption seems to require being rich.
Never will happen in CA, we are too big. The charging infrastructure needed would be insane. That said, a few of the richer New England states like NJ or NY could likely pull it off. Sure there would be plenty of out of state gas engines, but with some in state incentives and a good charging infrastructure I'm sure it would pretty strongly increase the pressure on all surrounding states to make the change as well, until it finally went national.
I live in a Vermont town of 2500 which is the largest town in the county. Our grocery store has a Tesla charging station.
For normal use you don't wait for an electric car to get low in the first place. Wherever you park out and about, or if you're at home, you're just charging it back to full.
Long trips may be a problem though. I think with current technology it's at least a couple hours from empty to full.
For normal use you don't wait for an electric car to get low in the first place. Wherever you park out and about, or if you're at home, you're just charging it back to full.
Long trips may be a problem though. I think with current technology it's at least a couple hours from empty to full.
It's the assumption that people will be able to charge at home that's mind boggling to me. Like, just the assumption that everyone owns a house or lives in an apartment complex that has a charger.
I love electric cars, I think we need them and that we're going to move further towards them being viable as long-haul solutions, but the sheer pretentiousness of the sales pitch is kind of glaring at times.
I wonder how much the top of the line one's cost and how long they last, while adequately charging up batteries quickly. If people can get good mileage out of them, a sub 45 minute break isn't that bad. Hell, I'd argue that people probably should be spending 15 minutes stretching for every two hours of driving. So if people did that, maybe mid tier or low tier charging stations would be adequate if we're talking decent mileage.
I also know someone is looking into wireless charging technology, which would also help with some issues.
I could also see solar tech providing some solutions to this as well. Vehicles have plenty of surface area that could be utilized more efficiently. Aesthetics might be an issue with some, but solar tech could solve some of the infrastructure issues for us. Without doing much digging, it looks like they can already go 60 mph for 250 miles (I'm pulling from wiki, so this might not be accurate). I don't think they need to hit the average speed of most family vehicles though, like when has anyone gone 100+ (fastest I get is 80), still agree it needs to be faster since there are places where the speed limit exceeds 60.
I wonder how much the top of the line one's cost and how long they last, while adequately charging up batteries quickly. If people can get good mileage out of them, a sub 45 minute break isn't that bad. Hell, I'd argue that people probably should be spending 15 minutes stretching for every two hours of driving. So if people did that, maybe mid tier or low tier charging stations would be adequate if we're talking decent mileage.
I also know someone is looking into wireless charging technology, which would also help with some issues.
I could also see solar tech providing some solutions to this as well. Vehicles have plenty of surface area that could be utilized more efficiently. Aesthetics might be an issue with some, but solar tech could solve some of the infrastructure issues for us. Without doing much digging, it looks like they can already go 60 mph for 250 miles (I'm pulling from wiki, so this might not be accurate). I don't think they need to hit the average speed of most family vehicles though, like when has anyone gone 100+ (fastest I get is 80), still agree it needs to be faster since there are places where the speed limit exceeds 60.
If nothing else, solar would let you run the air conditioner or navigation / device charger. It doesn't have to be a huge gain to bridge the gap between where we're at and what we need to be able to do to meet 99% of the needs of normal commuters. If when you parked at home a panel popped up and charged your battery through a locking induction plate on your rim or bumper and each day your average commute is only 40 miles round trip to/from work for people who live at the edge of a city and need to commute to the opposite side. Incremental change is what we need to be focusing on.
Everyone expects problems to be solved overnight full stop or adopts a "why bother?" attitude. Which is kind of how we got where we are anyway!
Why wouldn't you just switch the entire battery out at the petrol/battery station though?
Have the attendants help pull the battery out if it's too heavy, etc, for the driver.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
Here in the Netherlands people are experimenting with a local solution to energy storage and smart use of car batteries. http://smartsolarcharging.eu/en/
Inhabitants plug their car into the grid and register how much they will be needing to drive the next day. The grid leaves enough power in the car to use the car the next day, the extra is used to power the local grid.
During the day the cars that don't drive can be used to store solar energy.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
Much like people who own long bed crew cab trucks because they might buy some residential gardening supplies once a year or need to move a couch once every 20.
Obsession with large vehicles as a lifestyle choice will need to be handled before we worry about whether people dedicated to romanticized country song versions of owning a truck will go electric.
If everyone just drove a smaller car we'd be years ahead of where we are. But no, "Rollin Coal" is a thing. I'm at the point where if someone's vehicle doesn't fit in the very generous parking spaces we provide without sticking out 4 feet, it should be towed.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
I have a work colleague who does a 1000 mile round trip each second week.
Our population density prevents many people from not having to travel large distances.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I could go for an electric vehicle...if there was anywhere to charge it in my garage.
I rent.
That garage ain't getting charging stations until the time comes to tear this place down and replace it with a high-rise.
If I had my own home and own garage, I could make it work, mostly.
Unfortunately, housing prices are crazy out here, so I don't.
Really we are at a cross roads in the future with no road map of what lies ahead
I make fun of the fact that this state could go full solar within 20 years but it means the death of the local power company and how this state earns a lot of it's money {natural gas extraction} it's taken to Texas to be for refined and sold back with a huge mark up :rotate:}
They could solve the water problem by using the local dormant volcano by doing what Iceland does dumping the grey water into it and collecting the steam you have yet another energy production
But really a bigger question about electric cars is could they pull off a bus? or several smaller buses like airport shuttle sized? the whole concept of vehicle ownership is another big problem that needs to be addressed
As how often do you really use your car outside of work?
If they made self driving buses but a whole network of them would people be more likely to use it over their personal car?
I could go on and on since the future of what lies ahead means we have to rid ourselves of a fear/misunderstanding of something since it would greatly help speed us along to a better future
I've read about experiments with battery designs where you can swap out the liquid inside where the energy is stored.
just drive to your gas station, and attach pump which sucks out the spent liquid and pumps in new one.
But that was a while ago and have not heard anything more, so it might not have gone anywhere.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
This will never fly in the US
At least not until we have affordable high speed mass transit
Which means, well, this will never fly in the US
The good news is the inevitable advances in tech mean that the distance limit on electric is not a permanent wall and no one will actually need to completely forget that idea at all
I mean, why couldn't you have a car with like 2 hours of battery life and a gas engine? I mean more expensive sure, and probably worse mileage, but you could be no gas most of the time and even during long trips you would cut down a lot, particularly if you took meal and rest breaks every 2 hours or so during which it could recharge. It would not even need to be fueled most of the time, it would just give you a warning when you are low on electricity so you could grab some gas or go wait to recharge.
Long haul trucking, couldn't they just have much better rapid recharge stations, like ten separate batteries that all charge simultaneously.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
The big thing with electric vehicles is that their energy is as clean as the power grid. Don't feel they are clean enough, just upgrade the grid if you can.
Also Volvo phasing out gas powered engines in 2019 will put more pressure on governments to build more infrastructure to support them and you already have demand from Tesla owners. The more people that have a need for a place to charge their vehicle, the more likely an elected official would push for policy that address that need. Eventually, a government somewhere will pass the law that requires all new vehicles in their nation to be either hybrid or electric.
They are phasing to hybrids and electrics on new models introduced after 2019. And hybrids still produce plenty of emissions, especially in heavy-ass cars like Volvos - they'll get like 35mpg instead of 25 or whatever they're getting now. Which is an improvement, but not a big one.
Considering that they've turned over basically their entire lineup since 2015 or so, this won't mean anything (besides boosting their green bonafides in PR statements) until some point until the early 2020s.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
I mean, why couldn't you have a car with like 2 hours of battery life and a gas engine? I mean more expensive sure, and probably worse mileage, but you could be no gas most of the time and even during long trips you would cut down a lot, particularly if you took meal and rest breaks every 2 hours or so during which it could recharge. It would not even need to be fueled most of the time, it would just give you a warning when you are low on electricity so you could grab some gas or go wait to recharge.
Long haul trucking, couldn't they just have much better rapid recharge stations, like ten separate batteries that all charge simultaneously.
These already exist (but with less EV-only range at the moment), the most notable example being the Chevy Volt. I think plug-in hybrids are probably going to win out in the medium term, with pure EVs being a luxury product or urban commuter-only vehicle (which is fine!) for the next 20 years or so.
This is all assuming that gas gets expensive again at some point, though, at least in the US.
Honestly, the REAL silver bullet would be improvements in battery density to where they can become swappable, and you don't actually own your battery but lease it, then can pull into a "charging station" where you swap out your battery (with valuation of the charge on it) for a new one in less time than it takes to pump gas. Don't even need to have fast charge times in that case - just density to make swapping reasonable. Hell, maybe even keep a stock around of "50%/75%/etc full" batteries to replace the concept of throwing $5-$10 in the tank.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
This will never fly in the US
At least not until we have affordable high speed mass transit
Which means, well, this will never fly in the US
The good news is the inevitable advances in tech mean that the distance limit on electric is not a permanent wall and no one will actually need to completely forget that idea at all
It's flying right now? Electric vehicle sales are through the roof. People are literally choosing to do this right now. EVs are the fastest growing market segment. People very commonly own an ev like a prius, Model S or Chevy Bolt and say they will rent a petrol car for long road trips. They rarely do, because people overstate their need for long distance driving in short times by about an order of magnitude. But it's still common to do so.
I'm confused as to where this vaguely 10 year old pre tesla understanding of evs is coming from. It's like having an argument with the past
Seriously, evs are great. They meet all your driving needs providing you can get regular access to a 240 V 15 A supply for 99% of the US driving population covering maybe 98.5% of driven miles. Go drive one, you'll be amazed.
Their only real weakness is people without the ability to charge at home, but even most new apartments are starting to offer charging stations these days, as are most workplaces.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
Every so often we drive 500 miles to buffalo to see my wife's family, we're going to do it back to back weekends in August
Why wouldn't you just switch the entire battery out at the petrol/battery station though?
Have the attendants help pull the battery out if it's too heavy, etc, for the driver.
Tesla had a pilot program for that. They would do an automated battery change out which took under 5 minutes.
They cancelled it because it wasn't as popular as the supercharger stations. The battery swap cost $80 and took 5 minutes, but tesla superchargers are free. Tesla supercharger stations can take the battery from zero to 266 miles in an hour. Regular stations can add 22 miles per hour of charge.
Why wouldn't you just switch the entire battery out at the petrol/battery station though?
Have the attendants help pull the battery out if it's too heavy, etc, for the driver.
Tesla had a pilot program for that. They would do an automated battery change out which took under 5 minutes.
They cancelled it because it wasn't as popular as the supercharger stations. The battery swap cost $80 and took 5 minutes, but tesla superchargers are free. Tesla supercharger stations can take the battery from zero to 266 miles in an hour. Regular stations can add 22 miles per hour of charge.
I think there were also some design tradeoffs to make that work that they didn't want to do anymore, and people don't like the idea of treating their battery pack (aka the expensive part) of their car the same as a $20 propane tank.
Why wouldn't you just switch the entire battery out at the petrol/battery station though?
Have the attendants help pull the battery out if it's too heavy, etc, for the driver.
Tesla had a pilot program for that. They would do an automated battery change out which took under 5 minutes.
They cancelled it because it wasn't as popular as the supercharger stations. The battery swap cost $80 and took 5 minutes, but tesla superchargers are free. Tesla supercharger stations can take the battery from zero to 266 miles in an hour. Regular stations can add 22 miles per hour of charge.
I think there were also some design tradeoffs to make that work that they didn't want to do anymore, and people don't like the idea of treating their battery pack (aka the expensive part) of their car the same as a $20 propane tank.
It was cancelled fairly recently, as they had retooled the system slightly to include the new titanium plate that they had installed under the batteries. They also did the program after the car was released. They weren't designing the cars with the swap in mind, more like the other way round. So I don't think it was a particular design limitation which made them cancel it. The battery still has to be swappable at some level because it does eventually wear down like any battery.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
Every so often we drive 500 miles to buffalo to see my wife's family, we're going to do it back to back weekends in August
Great, drice an ev every day and rent a car from hertz for your trips. You'll save money, have a smaller environmental footprint etc.
And you are a massive edge case if you actually do a regular 500 mile drip (monthly). Covering your needs is effectively irrelevant to the population. Though a model s could still get you there with one recharge on the way, which would take 90 minutes or so.
The road trip argument is like me saying I need a 12 passenger van, because I sometimes drive a big group up for ski trips.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
Every so often we drive 500 miles to buffalo to see my wife's family, we're going to do it back to back weekends in August
Great, drice an ev every day and rent a car from hertz for your trips. You'll save money, have a smaller environmental footprint etc.
And you are a massive edge case if you actually do a regular 500 mile drip (monthly). Covering your needs is effectively irrelevant to the population. Though a model s could still get you there with one recharge on the way, which would take 90 minutes or so.
The road trip argument is like me saying I need a 12 passenger van, because I sometimes drive a big group up for ski trips.
Millions of people own boats. Tens of millions of people travel to camp every year.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
Every so often we drive 500 miles to buffalo to see my wife's family, we're going to do it back to back weekends in August
Great, drice an ev every day and rent a car from hertz for your trips. You'll save money, have a smaller environmental footprint etc.
And you are a massive edge case if you actually do a regular 500 mile drip (monthly). Covering your needs is effectively irrelevant to the population. Though a model s could still get you there with one recharge on the way, which would take 90 minutes or so.
The road trip argument is like me saying I need a 12 passenger van, because I sometimes drive a big group up for ski trips.
Renting a car is a hassle, and a Model S is $70k.
So is paying 100s of dollars a month for gas that you didn't need to pay for.
Sure, extreme edge cases like our buffalo visitor might be better served with a hybrid or plug In hybrid. But they are immaterial to the problem. He could drive a steam roller or a combine harvested I'd he wanted and it wouldn't matter provided other people made smarter decisions.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
It uses two different types of solar panels for the different shades.
Anyway, back to arguing about electric cars, I guess.
Is that really real? That seems line a very expensive way to make a joke which is o by visible to people in planes!
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
edited July 2017
It's real and China plans on building more of 'em as part of their general giant investment into clean energy. It's a working plant but also good PR as the US decides to sink into a coal-burning morass.
And bringing this back to Volvo, from that NY Times article:
Volvo is owned by Geely Automobile Holdings of China, which already produces battery-powered cars for the Chinese market. The decision by Volvo to focus on electric vehicles could ultimately give it and Geely a head start if, as many analysts expect, sales of battery powered cars begin to take off. China is already the largest market for electric vehicles.
It's not a government directive, but Volvo is positioning itself to take a huge share of the rapidly growing Chinese market.
It uses two different types of solar panels for the different shades.
Anyway, back to arguing about electric cars, I guess.
Is that really real? That seems line a very expensive way to make a joke which is o by visible to people in planes!
Ever since people groked the idea that the great wall isn't really visible from space, China has worked to reclaim the distinction of "Man made object visible from space".
It uses two different types of solar panels for the different shades.
Anyway, back to arguing about electric cars, I guess.
Is that really real? That seems line a very expensive way to make a joke which is o by visible to people in planes!
Hard to tell. The article uses a bunch of future-tense verbs and a quick scan of aerial imagery around the mentioned city (Datong) doesn't turn up anything that looks like that.
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Never will happen in CA, we are too big. The charging infrastructure needed would be insane. That said, a few of the richer New England states like NJ or NY could likely pull it off. Sure there would be plenty of out of state gas engines, but with some in state incentives and a good charging infrastructure I'm sure it would pretty strongly increase the pressure on all surrounding states to make the change as well, until it finally went national.
California pretty much already did it. You can't build an all gasoline vehicle which meets their 2025 emission standards (or somewhere therabouts)
I live in a Vermont town of 2500 which is the largest town in the county. Our grocery store has a Tesla charging station.
I'm sure California can be done.
Long trips may be a problem though. I think with current technology it's at least a couple hours from empty to full.
Depends on the chargingstation. It varies from half a day with a normal wall outlet to 80% in 30 min with a top of the line charging station.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/slow-fast-and-faster-where-to-charge-electric-cars/
It's the assumption that people will be able to charge at home that's mind boggling to me. Like, just the assumption that everyone owns a house or lives in an apartment complex that has a charger.
I love electric cars, I think we need them and that we're going to move further towards them being viable as long-haul solutions, but the sheer pretentiousness of the sales pitch is kind of glaring at times.
I wonder how much the top of the line one's cost and how long they last, while adequately charging up batteries quickly. If people can get good mileage out of them, a sub 45 minute break isn't that bad. Hell, I'd argue that people probably should be spending 15 minutes stretching for every two hours of driving. So if people did that, maybe mid tier or low tier charging stations would be adequate if we're talking decent mileage.
I also know someone is looking into wireless charging technology, which would also help with some issues.
I could also see solar tech providing some solutions to this as well. Vehicles have plenty of surface area that could be utilized more efficiently. Aesthetics might be an issue with some, but solar tech could solve some of the infrastructure issues for us. Without doing much digging, it looks like they can already go 60 mph for 250 miles (I'm pulling from wiki, so this might not be accurate). I don't think they need to hit the average speed of most family vehicles though, like when has anyone gone 100+ (fastest I get is 80), still agree it needs to be faster since there are places where the speed limit exceeds 60.
If nothing else, solar would let you run the air conditioner or navigation / device charger. It doesn't have to be a huge gain to bridge the gap between where we're at and what we need to be able to do to meet 99% of the needs of normal commuters. If when you parked at home a panel popped up and charged your battery through a locking induction plate on your rim or bumper and each day your average commute is only 40 miles round trip to/from work for people who live at the edge of a city and need to commute to the opposite side. Incremental change is what we need to be focusing on.
Everyone expects problems to be solved overnight full stop or adopts a "why bother?" attitude. Which is kind of how we got where we are anyway!
Have the attendants help pull the battery out if it's too heavy, etc, for the driver.
Not going to happen anytime soon, though.
We have this system in Australia for gas bottles.
You own the bottle, but can swap it at a gas station for a full one so long as it's not damaged.
The battery weighs about 2000 lbs and features numerous high voltage DC connections which must remain sealed against liquid at all times. In addition, your vehicles specific battery age and life history gives it a specific value, which is not the same as a random off the shelf battery.
Honestly, the key here is to completely forget the idea that you are ever taking a massive road trip. You aren't. You never do, and don't need to. And if you really did, it would be more fiscally and environmentally sound to drive your electric car every day and just rent a car for your road trip if you wanted to do more than 250 miles a day.
http://smartsolarcharging.eu/en/
Inhabitants plug their car into the grid and register how much they will be needing to drive the next day. The grid leaves enough power in the car to use the car the next day, the extra is used to power the local grid.
During the day the cars that don't drive can be used to store solar energy.
Much like people who own long bed crew cab trucks because they might buy some residential gardening supplies once a year or need to move a couch once every 20.
Obsession with large vehicles as a lifestyle choice will need to be handled before we worry about whether people dedicated to romanticized country song versions of owning a truck will go electric.
If everyone just drove a smaller car we'd be years ahead of where we are. But no, "Rollin Coal" is a thing. I'm at the point where if someone's vehicle doesn't fit in the very generous parking spaces we provide without sticking out 4 feet, it should be towed.
I have a work colleague who does a 1000 mile round trip each second week.
Our population density prevents many people from not having to travel large distances.
People work in industries that need trucks to haul work tools and goods every single day.
As far as I know all of the Electric trucks are pretty short range or woefully underpowered today, though I imagine that'll be changing in 5-10 years.
I'm all for mandating electric passenger vehicles or massive incentives for EV's but it's frankly offensive to hear that people who own or want to own larger vehicles like a truck are all Rolling Coal idiots.
I rent.
That garage ain't getting charging stations until the time comes to tear this place down and replace it with a high-rise.
If I had my own home and own garage, I could make it work, mostly.
Unfortunately, housing prices are crazy out here, so I don't.
I make fun of the fact that this state could go full solar within 20 years but it means the death of the local power company and how this state earns a lot of it's money {natural gas extraction} it's taken to Texas to be for refined and sold back with a huge mark up :rotate:}
They could solve the water problem by using the local dormant volcano by doing what Iceland does dumping the grey water into it and collecting the steam you have yet another energy production
But really a bigger question about electric cars is could they pull off a bus? or several smaller buses like airport shuttle sized? the whole concept of vehicle ownership is another big problem that needs to be addressed
As how often do you really use your car outside of work?
If they made self driving buses but a whole network of them would people be more likely to use it over their personal car?
I could go on and on since the future of what lies ahead means we have to rid ourselves of a fear/misunderstanding of something since it would greatly help speed us along to a better future
just drive to your gas station, and attach pump which sucks out the spent liquid and pumps in new one.
But that was a while ago and have not heard anything more, so it might not have gone anywhere.
This will never fly in the US
At least not until we have affordable high speed mass transit
Which means, well, this will never fly in the US
The good news is the inevitable advances in tech mean that the distance limit on electric is not a permanent wall and no one will actually need to completely forget that idea at all
Long haul trucking, couldn't they just have much better rapid recharge stations, like ten separate batteries that all charge simultaneously.
They are phasing to hybrids and electrics on new models introduced after 2019. And hybrids still produce plenty of emissions, especially in heavy-ass cars like Volvos - they'll get like 35mpg instead of 25 or whatever they're getting now. Which is an improvement, but not a big one.
Considering that they've turned over basically their entire lineup since 2015 or so, this won't mean anything (besides boosting their green bonafides in PR statements) until some point until the early 2020s.
The tesla model s is the fastest accelerating production vehicle on the road. Sub 3 second 0 to 60. It can drive 250 miles if you drive sensibly in free flowing traffic. It can add 125 miles of driving range, for free, at a super charger in less than an hour.
The idea that electric vehicles are woefully underpowered is what is 10 years out of date.
Honestly attitudes to driving will need to change even with electric vehicles.
People working as contractors are not the same as the general population of truck owners. Most vehicles drive 20-50 or so miles each day, with a periodic 100 mile day every few months. Then perhaps every 12 months people have a 150 mile plus day. Truck storage and towing capacity is used about 1% of the time in the US.
These already exist (but with less EV-only range at the moment), the most notable example being the Chevy Volt. I think plug-in hybrids are probably going to win out in the medium term, with pure EVs being a luxury product or urban commuter-only vehicle (which is fine!) for the next 20 years or so.
This is all assuming that gas gets expensive again at some point, though, at least in the US.
It's flying right now? Electric vehicle sales are through the roof. People are literally choosing to do this right now. EVs are the fastest growing market segment. People very commonly own an ev like a prius, Model S or Chevy Bolt and say they will rent a petrol car for long road trips. They rarely do, because people overstate their need for long distance driving in short times by about an order of magnitude. But it's still common to do so.
I'm confused as to where this vaguely 10 year old pre tesla understanding of evs is coming from. It's like having an argument with the past
Seriously, evs are great. They meet all your driving needs providing you can get regular access to a 240 V 15 A supply for 99% of the US driving population covering maybe 98.5% of driven miles. Go drive one, you'll be amazed.
Their only real weakness is people without the ability to charge at home, but even most new apartments are starting to offer charging stations these days, as are most workplaces.
Every so often we drive 500 miles to buffalo to see my wife's family, we're going to do it back to back weekends in August
Tesla had a pilot program for that. They would do an automated battery change out which took under 5 minutes.
They cancelled it because it wasn't as popular as the supercharger stations. The battery swap cost $80 and took 5 minutes, but tesla superchargers are free. Tesla supercharger stations can take the battery from zero to 266 miles in an hour. Regular stations can add 22 miles per hour of charge.
I think there were also some design tradeoffs to make that work that they didn't want to do anymore, and people don't like the idea of treating their battery pack (aka the expensive part) of their car the same as a $20 propane tank.
It was cancelled fairly recently, as they had retooled the system slightly to include the new titanium plate that they had installed under the batteries. They also did the program after the car was released. They weren't designing the cars with the swap in mind, more like the other way round. So I don't think it was a particular design limitation which made them cancel it. The battery still has to be swappable at some level because it does eventually wear down like any battery.
Great, drice an ev every day and rent a car from hertz for your trips. You'll save money, have a smaller environmental footprint etc.
And you are a massive edge case if you actually do a regular 500 mile drip (monthly). Covering your needs is effectively irrelevant to the population. Though a model s could still get you there with one recharge on the way, which would take 90 minutes or so.
The road trip argument is like me saying I need a 12 passenger van, because I sometimes drive a big group up for ski trips.
Renting a car is a hassle, and a Model S is $70k.
So is paying 100s of dollars a month for gas that you didn't need to pay for.
Sure, extreme edge cases like our buffalo visitor might be better served with a hybrid or plug In hybrid. But they are immaterial to the problem. He could drive a steam roller or a combine harvested I'd he wanted and it wouldn't matter provided other people made smarter decisions.
It uses two different types of solar panels for the different shades.
Anyway, back to arguing about electric cars, I guess.
Is that really real? That seems line a very expensive way to make a joke which is o by visible to people in planes!
And bringing this back to Volvo, from that NY Times article:
It's not a government directive, but Volvo is positioning itself to take a huge share of the rapidly growing Chinese market.
Ever since people groked the idea that the great wall isn't really visible from space, China has worked to reclaim the distinction of "Man made object visible from space".
Hard to tell. The article uses a bunch of future-tense verbs and a quick scan of aerial imagery around the mentioned city (Datong) doesn't turn up anything that looks like that.