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A new Bloodborne threa-ah fuck I died

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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I think I need a little break. I tend to play one game exclusively, but I'm going to alternate between Bloodborne and Destiny.

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    FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Okay, finally had a chance to play this again, and managed to take down
    The Witch of Hemwick

    Man, they knocked it out of the park with that fight. It's not particularly difficult, but it's a brilliant concept, and the atmosphere leading up to it sets the tone just perfectly. Particularly the
    creepy-ass barn with the doors swinging in the wind, and the dead horses. I was trying my hardest to ignore the ghouls she summons, but I could feel my heart pounding every time one passed just behind me.

    This game is pretty cool.

    Flay on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Man, I just don't feel the same about fights in this game. When bosses aren't too hard they're boring and the intense moments are just nerve racking more than exciting.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Man, I just don't feel the same about fights in this game. When bosses aren't too hard they're boring and the intense moments are just nerve racking more than exciting.

    THIS is what I mean when I say that Bloodborne is significantly mechanically different to Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2.

    It's gotta be balancing hell, because your character is just so gosh darn stronk, that if you have time to react and think then you're gonna break bosses in half because the dodge is so powerful in this game.

    So the really hard bosses are nerve racking because you're riding a razor's edge that one dodge, or too many dodges is gonna get your face swiped off and your margin of error quickly goes down to zero.

    Basically there is no sweet spot, due to simply how powerful your character is.

    If I were to do a comparison.

    Median Bosses, aka, "Normal" Souls bosses:

    Taurus/Covetous Demon-Vicar Amelia/Cleric Beast


    The Sweet Spot, aka the "Exciting" bosses:

    Manus-Sif-Ornstein and Smough-Guardian Beast, Martyr Logarious(The only Bloodborne boss that qualifies)


    "Oh FUCKOHFUCKOHFUCKOHGODOHFUCK"

    Artorias the Abyss Walker, Blood-Starved Beast(Before learning him), Gascoine(Fairly), Any Defiled Chalice Boss, THAT spoiler guy.


    The common theme with the "exciting" bosses, is that there is a margin of error involved. It's not alot. But usually, you can afford one or two mistakes, and be relativly safe at neutral, however they can all hit hard enough to make your next move fairly important, whether it be healing, or getting damage in, but, specifically in Dark Souls case, you can also BLOCK and be patient waiting for that opening

    The thing about Bloodborne's combat system though, is that your dodge is 100% better then Dark Souls blocking, and can put you in a better position, completly avoid damage, and give you space and seperation from the boss. While in Dark Souls you had a chance where bosses could lock you down as you waited for an opening to present itself.

    So you don't get that tense feeling. You dodge, go "AHA, I GOT you" and do what you need to do almost stress free, instead of blocking and going, "Waiit....wait......WAAAIOH GOD NOW WHEW GOT THAT HEAL OFF"

    Personally, I prefer the "OHGODOHHELLOHNOOHGOD" stress difficulty with the miniscule margin's of error, since I'm a masochist, but it's also far more draining then some of the razor's edge tuning that Dark Souls bosses got to be.


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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I beat Farther G on my second try, so far the easiest boss I've fought.

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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Father G is only the second boss. Weren't you in the Cathedral Ward?

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Sorry I was kinda replying to the above post where it said he is difficult.

    Yeah Amelia still seems friggen impossible. And I only got BSB after like 15 tries.

    Uriel on
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    Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    A full beast mode from the start Father G with no stagger shots would be interesting

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    A full beast mode from the start Father G with no stagger shots would be interesting

    He's not actually hard when you get used to him, his first form actually causes more problems then his beast mode. In Beast mode he specifically punishes poorly timed back dodging and over dodging, but going into him after getting such a souls boss in Cleric Beast, for the first time usually makes him a bit difficult for a reason.

    Also, people who just spam his music box(COUGHMECOUGH) get to fight beast mode for 75% of his life and learn the Bloodborne combat system the HARD way.

    But he's a good example of a panic inducing boss, since in every form he hits like a truck and is 100 million times more aggressive in both forms then any previous Souls boss.

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    As with all boss discussions, you got the subjective thing, but for me Father G, from the first time I fought him was like

    1) First form, this guy is like a regular enemy, just dodge into him and stagger him with R1 spam or gun parry him for free viscerals.
    2) Second form, little bit harder to parry but not much, still can just dodge through his attacks and easily smack him around.
    3) Beast form, oh shit, i'm scared, die one time because i'm trying to back dodge and I realize he's designed to punish back dodging with all his forward movement and follow up. Kill him next try by dodging through his attacks into him just like the first two forms.

    Most of the Bloodborne bosses felt very easy to me though. I really felt like they went more of a Demon's Souls style over a Dark Souls style with the boss design. Like in Demon's Souls the bosses are really cool and memorable, but they have more interesting fight gimmicks than challenging fights for the most part. Hitting Adjudicator's weak spot to knock him down so you can hit the bird on his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Killing the dudes up top then just whacking at Tower Knight's ankles to release the steam and make him fall down and hit his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Bloodborne bosses felt that way to me mostly. Like Rom, it's an interesting fight with different phases and adds, but I feel like the only way to lose for me would've been to just somehow fudge my movement so multiple spiders hit me at once. Or The One Reborn, aka Tower Knight 2.0. Just kill the guys up top, then whack at it until you stagger it. I don't even know what attacks that boss has that could even kill you.

    In another parallel between the two, I feel like Allant and the non optional final boss of Bloodborne are probably the best fights in each of their games. They're both fast and aggressive and while neither one is particularly tough(Bloodborne final boss pushed me hard on NG+ but i still killed him first try), they're really fun to fight.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    So I'm at about 55 now, going from Hemwick to Cainhurst, and it's probably just luck but it seems like I'm summoning/being summoned/invading people in NG+ almost exclusively. It's fucking great for making all kinds of echoes super fast but holy shit was I ever not helpful against the Ghosts of Yharnam

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Summoning in this game is SL based, so you're fair game to invade/co-op anybody between about SL 40 and 70. Seems like maybe you just ran into a few people who are limiting their SL but are having trouble on NG+ or something.

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    So I'm at about 55 now, going from Hemwick to Cainhurst, and it's probably just luck but it seems like I'm summoning/being summoned/invading people in NG+ almost exclusively. It's fucking great for making all kinds of echoes super fast but holy shit was I ever not helpful against the Ghosts of Yharnam

    I had this happen when I was spam helping The One Reborn for echoes(I can kill him solo in about 3 minutes, shorter if my host isn't dumb and goes kill the other side of adds while I'm killing one side).

    Got summoned and was like, "HEY, this bell ringer didn't get oneshot and it has like, 10% Health left what the hell, I can one shot them with like 200 damage to spaOH GOD, it just game me 7k Echoes YEP NEW GAME+.

    I tend to overlevel, so I am ALL FOR all the NG+ summonings they are great.

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    ShenShen Registered User regular
    Bloodborne is weird because you basically have one approach to all bosses: go fucking ham, parry em if poss. It's weird cos if you played Souls blocking at all there's some lingering passivity that is hard to shake.

    It's like, Souls is all looking for openings and capitalising on them. You can play BB that way (I did my first time through) but I found piling on the damage to be way more effective.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I feel like talking about the relative difficulty of souls bosses is kind of a waste of time. people are all going to be different soul levels, some people are going to coop and some aren't.

    A tiny amount of vitality can make the difference between controller throwing zone and walk in the park land. The right resistances can take a fight that once demanded perfection and make it only require an adequate performance. The ability to stagger can completely change a fight.

    Soulsborne is still choose your own difficulty with options ranging from 'challenging' to 'bullshit'

    DodgeBlan on
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Extra vitality makes a huge difference until frenzy becomes a factor. I really hate the frenzy mechanic

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    As with all boss discussions, you got the subjective thing, but for me Father G, from the first time I fought him was like

    1) First form, this guy is like a regular enemy, just dodge into him and stagger him with R1 spam or gun parry him for free viscerals.
    2) Second form, little bit harder to parry but not much, still can just dodge through his attacks and easily smack him around.
    3) Beast form, oh shit, i'm scared, die one time because i'm trying to back dodge and I realize he's designed to punish back dodging with all his forward movement and follow up. Kill him next try by dodging through his attacks into him just like the first two forms.

    Most of the Bloodborne bosses felt very easy to me though. I really felt like they went more of a Demon's Souls style over a Dark Souls style with the boss design. Like in Demon's Souls the bosses are really cool and memorable, but they have more interesting fight gimmicks than challenging fights for the most part. Hitting Adjudicator's weak spot to knock him down so you can hit the bird on his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Killing the dudes up top then just whacking at Tower Knight's ankles to release the steam and make him fall down and hit his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Bloodborne bosses felt that way to me mostly. Like Rom, it's an interesting fight with different phases and adds, but I feel like the only way to lose for me would've been to just somehow fudge my movement so multiple spiders hit me at once. Or The One Reborn, aka Tower Knight 2.0. Just kill the guys up top, then whack at it until you stagger it. I don't even know what attacks that boss has that could even kill you.

    In another parallel between the two, I feel like Allant and the non optional final boss of Bloodborne are probably the best fights in each of their games. They're both fast and aggressive and while neither one is particularly tough(Bloodborne final boss pushed me hard on NG+ but i still killed him first try), they're really fun to fight.

    See, that's the thing. I argue that it isn't a simple "Boss Design" choice, but a player control system choice.

    Like, you simply CAN'T make those kind of bosses in Bloodborne because there is only one real defense option, rather than the two in Dark Souls.

    Like, again, to use a Souls comparison, fast roll breaks Souls games. It's superior to blocking by a good margin in nearly every situation, and it's only balanced by the assumption that you are wearing light armor, and when you get hit you're gonna get ANNIHILATED, and some bosses that are difficult with shields become absolute jokes.

    They took that, and made it BETTER, and then removed the Heavy Armor/Light armor difference completly. It's a small miracle that there are any challenging bosses in Bloodborne period.

    Like, a boss like Darkbeast Paarl would be a PERFECT Souls Boss and a top tier boss for a Souls game. His attacks have a wide arc, he's agressive, he has multiple ways to punish you and most of his stuff is multi-hit. Tack on the MOAR LIGHTNING phase and playing that boss like a Souls boss with a block button would be goddamn thrilling.

    Until you roll under his attacks in Bloodborne and WHOOPS he's kind of a joke and also annoying since he hops around like a spaz and his hitbox is dumb.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    The only thing I have against being summoned into NG+ is my uselessness, like my +6 swagger stick just does not have the juice for me to be a real asset in your endeavor sir

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Although speaking of my +6 swagger stick some dude invaded me at Cainhurst and I murdered him with two swipes of the basic stick attack from full health, he must've had like 6 vitality

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    As with all boss discussions, you got the subjective thing, but for me Father G, from the first time I fought him was like

    1) First form, this guy is like a regular enemy, just dodge into him and stagger him with R1 spam or gun parry him for free viscerals.
    2) Second form, little bit harder to parry but not much, still can just dodge through his attacks and easily smack him around.
    3) Beast form, oh shit, i'm scared, die one time because i'm trying to back dodge and I realize he's designed to punish back dodging with all his forward movement and follow up. Kill him next try by dodging through his attacks into him just like the first two forms.

    Most of the Bloodborne bosses felt very easy to me though. I really felt like they went more of a Demon's Souls style over a Dark Souls style with the boss design. Like in Demon's Souls the bosses are really cool and memorable, but they have more interesting fight gimmicks than challenging fights for the most part. Hitting Adjudicator's weak spot to knock him down so you can hit the bird on his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Killing the dudes up top then just whacking at Tower Knight's ankles to release the steam and make him fall down and hit his head, meanwhile you basically can't lose. Bloodborne bosses felt that way to me mostly. Like Rom, it's an interesting fight with different phases and adds, but I feel like the only way to lose for me would've been to just somehow fudge my movement so multiple spiders hit me at once. Or The One Reborn, aka Tower Knight 2.0. Just kill the guys up top, then whack at it until you stagger it. I don't even know what attacks that boss has that could even kill you.

    In another parallel between the two, I feel like Allant and the non optional final boss of Bloodborne are probably the best fights in each of their games. They're both fast and aggressive and while neither one is particularly tough(Bloodborne final boss pushed me hard on NG+ but i still killed him first try), they're really fun to fight.

    See, that's the thing. I argue that it isn't a simple "Boss Design" choice, but a player control system choice.

    Like, you simply CAN'T make those kind of bosses in Bloodborne because there is only one real defense option, rather than the two in Dark Souls.

    Like, again, to use a Souls comparison, fast roll breaks Souls games. It's superior to blocking by a good margin in nearly every situation, and it's only balanced by the assumption that you are wearing light armor, and when you get hit you're gonna get ANNIHILATED, and some bosses that are difficult with shields become absolute jokes.

    They took that, and made it BETTER, and then removed the Heavy Armor/Light armor difference completly. It's a small miracle that there are any challenging bosses in Bloodborne period.

    Like, a boss like Darkbeast Paarl would be a PERFECT Souls Boss and a top tier boss for a Souls game. His attacks have a wide arc, he's agressive, he has multiple ways to punish you and most of his stuff is multi-hit. Tack on the MOAR LIGHTNING phase and playing that boss like a Souls boss with a block button would be goddamn thrilling.

    Until you roll under his attacks in Bloodborne and WHOOPS he's kind of a joke and also annoying since he hops around like a spaz and his hitbox is dumb.

    I think we have two opposing viewpoints on Souls bosses, because you're saying that fast roll breaks Souls bosses, while I'd argue that Souls bosses are broken by the fact that a tower shield with enough stability and the right defenses makes nearly ever fight trivial, albeit longer.

    Example: Smelter Demon. Like many people, this dude rocked my fucking world for a while when I first encountered him. It didn't help that DS2 was my first Souls game so this was my first real "this boss doesn't play around" boss. Anyway, I ended up having to adapt my playstyle(medium armor paladin type) and realize I simply couldn't block him. I used a kite shield with shit fire resist, so even if I blocked him in the first phase which didn't really work due to my kite shield's low stability, I couldn't block any of his damage in his fire sword phase.

    Your argument is that Smelter is easy if you wear light/no armor and fast roll, but I'd argue the easiest way to beat him is with a 100% fire block great shield with high stability, because you can just block everything he does and use some stamina to poke his health down. Doing it with fast roll and no shield still opens you up to dying in a hurry if you get caught. There's basically no risk if you just block his attacks.

    This applies to I'd say 90% of bosses across the Souls games. You can just use a shield and wait for openings.

    No shield in Bloodborne means when the bosses are tough, they're tough, but just in my opinion they're designed to be more interesting and less straight challenge. Even Darkbeast Paarl is easier than Sif or Royal Rat Authority imo, some kind of analogues to him. The fact that you can easily just break his legs over and over and beat him while he's down inherently makes him easier, at least for me.

    And that's how most Bloodborne bosses are designed, with vulnerabilities or quirks built into the fights. Most of the bosses can either be parried or they have giant visceral attack windows or stagger windows that you can trigger by hitting certain parts of their bodies, and what not. It's not a criticism. I think nearly all Demon's Souls bosses other than Allant and maybe Flamelurker are ridiculously easy too, yet it's still just as high in my list of amazing games as the rest of the Souls games. It's just a different kind of boss design, where the Dark Souls games seem to go for more straight forward bosses for the most part.

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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Also, a guy created this great Bloodborne map on the game's subreddit. Linking to it because it's huge:

    http://i.imgur.com/bykVpB5.jpg

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    martyr logarius is a joke boss with too easily exploited AI

    liEt3nH.png
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    I used to be able to go into Rest Mode and resume the game like normal, but lately whenever I resume I get a "disconnected from the network" message that boots me back to the menu. This happen with anyone else?

    Also, fuck the Loran Darkbeast. Fuck any boss that fucks with your camera. And especially fuck that stupid electrical charge that kills me every single time.

    No, I'm done with that. Onto the next dungeon so I can get the remaining two Red Jelly.

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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    Yeah, there was a problem if you're in online mode and put the system into rest mode, it would break the online functionality except for the messengers. So now, if you go into rest mode while online it'll boot you to the start up screen when you resume (so you can actually summon / be summoned).

    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    ah hell, must have gone too far into the forbidden forest and missed the eileen-henryk fight; they're not even at the tomb

    guess that mean I gotta kill eileen

    sorry babe

    wY6K6Jb.gif
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    ah hell, must have gone too far into the forbidden forest and missed the eileen-henryk fight; they're not even at the tomb

    guess that mean I gotta kill eileen

    sorry babe
    Did you talk to her just outside the Cathedral and get the warning not to go to the tomb?

    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    BYToady wrote: »
    ah hell, must have gone too far into the forbidden forest and missed the eileen-henryk fight; they're not even at the tomb

    guess that mean I gotta kill eileen

    sorry babe
    Did you talk to her just outside the Cathedral and get the warning not to go to the tomb?

    ayup

    wY6K6Jb.gif
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    The saddest of times.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    I've run out of shit to do, outside leveling Bloodtinge up to 40 or whatever. I haven't even technically finished the game!

    On a side note, I feel like the Burial Blade needs a buff. That or I'm using it wrong because its endurance to damage ratio seems poor.

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Huh. The armor looks radically different between genders. The Yharnam Hunter armor that looks ace on ladies just looks okay on lads.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
    Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    I wish the Knight armor didn't have horrible stats. I loved how it looked.

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Also, a guy created this great Bloodborne map on the game's subreddit. Linking to it because it's huge:

    http://i.imgur.com/bykVpB5.jpg

    For some reason, I always got the impression that Yharnam was set up in such way to be impossible, in terms of maps, to be cohesive. Like the Overlook Hotel.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
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    BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    LobosJR stop making me feel so bad about Bloodborne.

    All beating on the secret boss with a level 4 waste of skin character.

    Battletag BYToady#1454
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    Vann DirasVann Diras Registered User regular
    well the next chalice is defiled chalice

    that's the rough one, right

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    Collected all the necessary Red Jellys, now I just need to farm for six Blood Ritual (5).

    If you already collected them in cleared Chalice Dungeons, does the drop rate lower if you go back? Is there a particular enemy I could farm for these?

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    Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    Depends on what you have access to. Layer 2 of P-whatever Ithyll has two witches at the very start which can drop them

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    A cooperator is never useless

    Even with fists, you can at least draw aggro

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    This did the trick (warning, awful mic quality):

    http://youtu.be/RQ-rC0HD5To

    Farmed up in less than ten minutes. The final dungeon is finally open to me.

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    MirroMirro Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Also, a guy created this great Bloodborne map on the game's subreddit. Linking to it because it's huge:

    http://i.imgur.com/bykVpB5.jpg

    For some reason, I always got the impression that Yharnam was set up in such way to be impossible, in terms of maps, to be cohesive. Like the Overlook Hotel.

    nah, at least the main city part of Yharnam-Chathedral Ward-OldYharnam-Hypogean Gaol fit together pretty well. If you look at your distant surroundings you can pick out places you've been or will eventually get too.

    I really like the return to DS1 levels of interconnectedness. You can see the chathedral ward and the cleric beast bridge leading to it from central Yharnam. You can see Old Yharnam and the machinegun tower from the aquaduct. You can see that large round open balcony with the ball and chain giant dude from the abandoned workshop.

    Mirro on
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    LasbrookLasbrook It takes a lot to make a stew When it comes to me and youRegistered User regular
    So I killed Rom:
    I fucked up, I fucked up real bad. Even the dream is more sinister. Now I'm in gods chilling on buildings town and everybody is some sort of blood mirage? they just keep respawning and the game is straight up hostile now it feels. You can't linger too long or explore or else you're into another fight. and other players aren't helping because there's all these like corpses kneeling with their faces covered and people leave notes saying don't you dare look at me and I keep expecting something to happen. Someone left that by an old god you get real close to and after staring long enough he started to "stare" back. I miss Yharnam.

    If nothing else this game needs to win a best skyboxes award.

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