Do they not realise that their preferred authors would have probably been more successful if they weren't on the Puppies slate?
Vox day specifically literally could not care less about those authors and their works. What he cares about is them winning or losing or being talked about at all because of him.
I recognise the type.
And that type can't be reasoned with. So kick him out.
Right, because the Hugo committee just removing people from membership linked to the puppies is going to calm them right down and not play into their persecution complex at all.
Yea, like removing Beale for his comments about other members of the organization being subhuman? RIghto, kick his ass out. They were in the process of doing that but the rules required like two years or something to make it happen.
Torgensen so far has only made arguments that have (as far as I've seen) been civil if a bit naive in the larger context. Him having a dissenting opinion shouldn't really be grounds for expulsion.
I kinda think that slate making, which is entirely within the rules if not the spirit, should also not be a bannable offense. I do think they should change the nomination process to make it less susceptible to it though.
Yeah, the existence of slates isn't a problem. It's just that the current nomination process is excessively vulnerable to slates. With something like SDV-LPE, slates would still be able to effect the ballot but they wouldn't crowd out popular works that aren't on the slate.
You can't evict Mr. Beale, nor his influence, from the Hugos, really, though. It's a popular vote system and attempting to kick him out is playing his dumb game. And won't work, because his miniscule horde is still big enough to skew data by being an organized force. Non-canines will probably need to have a more unified list next year, which is exactly what the Puppies want.
I predict that his endgame goal is to force a round of the Hugos in which no award is given at all.
But! Looking at this year's nominated works and seeing what fell where below the Puppy output, I don't think it requires a counter-slate, just a more concerted effort among fans to share things we love so that more ordinary fans feel confident filling in nomination ballots instead of feeling unqualified to do so. I think it's up to the fans to talk more about the books we loved *this* year that were published *this* year a little closer to nomination time.
and this is your polite reminder that if you bought a membership this year, please please please nominate something next year - - it does not matter if you only read three short stories you liked in 2015, just nominate the things you enjoyed! You don't need any qualifications to make a nomination, and if you have a 2015 membership, attending OR supporting, you are already set up to be a nominating member next year.
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I got an admission to make: Before this puppy nonsense I was thinking about checking out Marko Kloos. I quite like Milspec SF, even stuff that others might find schlocky and arch conservative. I have several David Weber Honor Harrington novels for example, on my shelf , some even in hardcover.
Then I found out he was part of the Puppy slate and I automatically decided to look elsewhere for my milspec SF fix. A writer that Vox Day, Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia though was "worthy" of Hugo awards was a big ass warning sign when it came to standard.
Since he dropped out I have tentatively put him back on the list of authors to check out, but he is far down the list now.
What I am trying to say is that the Puppies almost ruined Marko Kloos reputation with me by doing the slate shit. Cause if you need a slate to get the nod and if the slate was put together by shitlords, odds are you suck. And if you stick by the slate cause you want the nod that badly... then you are probably a shitlord to boot.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
I think its also important to mention that Guardians of the Galaxy got 59% of the nominations in its category. So even without the puppies it would have gotten a nod and probably won.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
His double dodeca-secret victory condition is that people are talking about him.
I think its also important to mention that Guardians of the Galaxy got 59% of the nominations in its category. So even without the puppies it would have gotten a nod and probably won.
Without the slate, it actually probably would have won with an even larger percentage of the vote, as there's a significant voter presence (larger than the # of puppy voters) represented by people who automatically disqualified anything that appeared on either of the slates. That's probably why Winter Soldier came in as #2.
Puppies supporters say that slew of “no award” wins this year can at least partially be attributed to the fact that SJW votes were concentrated on that choice, while Puppies votes were distributed between as many as four deserving authors.
Milo Yiannopolous wades in with his usual situational awareness.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Puppies supporters say that slew of “no award” wins this year can at least partially be attributed to the fact that SJW votes were concentrated on that choice, while Puppies votes were distributed between as many as four deserving authors.
Milo Yiannopolous wades in with his usual situational awareness.
I prefer the very next line, when he refers to the no awards in novella and short stories are "a particular slap in the face to ordinary fans".
Because, you know, the people who had to organize in a slate because they've never had the numbers to be influential in the past are "ordinary fans."
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
I gotta disagree here. I think Vox Day's only goal is to burn it all down and No Award is part of that. It might be minor damage but this whole No Award counter-slate thing is still damage. OK maybe his most preferred outcome was to win every single award, but this strikes me as a more then acceptable outcome for someone's whose stated goal was to create chaos and destroy the Hugos. Remember he views this--like Gamergate-as another front in the culture wars.
The No Award wins were not damage, they were damage control. The nominations were the damage. Now, it's obvious that the puppies only managed to stack the nominations because they were the only group voting in lockstep. This confirms that no, the puppies were not speaking for a poor oppressed minority.
Puppies supporters say that slew of “no award” wins this year can at least partially be attributed to the fact that SJW votes were concentrated on that choice, while Puppies votes were distributed between as many as four deserving authors.
Milo Yiannopolous wades in with his usual situational awareness.
No mention of the fact that No Award's got more votes then the puppy slate combined.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
I gotta disagree here. I think Vox Day's only goal is to burn it all down and No Award is part of that. It might be minor damage but this whole No Award counter-slate thing is still damage. OK maybe his most preferred outcome was to win every single award, but this strikes me as a more then acceptable outcome for someone's whose stated goal was to create chaos and destroy the Hugos. Remember he views this--like Gamergate-as another front in the culture wars.
Box Day strikes me as the sort of guy who would be moderately satisfied with making sure everyone else loses. The dude is an atomic powered goose built in a secret government lab.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I don't think his endgame goal is to get no awards, I think that's just the only thing he can claim was his goal all along.
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
I gotta disagree here. I think Vox Day's only goal is to burn it all down and No Award is part of that. It might be minor damage but this whole No Award counter-slate thing is still damage. OK maybe his most preferred outcome was to win every single award, but this strikes me as a more then acceptable outcome for someone's whose stated goal was to create chaos and destroy the Hugos. Remember he views this--like Gamergate-as another front in the culture wars.
Yeah, but "No Award" winning as big as it did really is a big defeat for Day. He hasn't burned anything down, and the numbers prove he can't burn anything down. The puppies lost the vote 3:1. Regardless of what Day's preferred outcomes were, it's been decisively demonstrated that he and the puppies are a small (albeit non-trivial) demographic among SF-fandom as a whole.
So perhaps Day can claim he won a battle, but in the bigger picture, the idea that the kind of SF the puppies is like is the "true" form of SF that will win ALL the Hugos if only it could get past a nomination process that's been rigged by SJWs/TOR/SMOFs has been disproven. After yesterday, the puppies' only recourse is to claim that all of WorldCon and its attendees are part of a vast SJW conspiracy. And based on Twitter so far, that's what they seem to be doing. But down that path is madness. The implication of that line of thinking is, "true SF&F fans don't go to WorldCon and vote in the Hugos". That's just a nutty thing to claim.
Larry Correira's twitter is amusingly silent about the Hugo results, as well as his official blog.
edit: Hang on. His response on his blog reads: "See? I told you so." What a child.
Torgensen's posted in the comments section of his blog with commentary. His argument is pretty much what I posted above: WorldCon and its attendees conspired to thwart the puppies.
Lots of carping that Toni Weisskopf lost to No Award even though she got a huge number of votes (in terms of winners of the Best Editor category in past years), and that's ultimate proof of the perfidious conspiracy of WorldCon voters. It, of course, never occurred to him to post that just maybe Toni received so many votes because the puppies conspired to vote for her.
He also posts a few hints about how Sad Puppies will proceed next year. Apparently, Sarah Hoyt and Kate Paulk will lead the effort.
Larry Correira's twitter is amusingly silent about the Hugo results, as well as his official blog.
edit: Hang on. His response on his blog reads: "See? I told you so." What a child.
Torgensen's posted in the comments section of his blog with commentary. His argument is pretty much what I posted above: WorldCon and its attendees conspired to thwart the puppies.
Lots of carping that Toni Weisskopf lost to No Award even though she got a huge number of votes (in terms of winners of the Best Editor category in past years), and that's ultimate proof of the perfidious conspiracy of WorldCon voters. It, of course, never occurred to him to post that just maybe Toni received so many votes because the puppies conspired to vote for her.
He also posts a few hints about how Sad Puppies will proceed next year. Apparently, Sarah Hoyt and Kate Paulk will lead the effort.
So I google to answer "Who?" and as near as I can tell from finding her last blog she is a pillar of salt with no sense of irony.
I especially liked the dig at Ancillary [Can't be bothered to remember the noun]. Aside from the pronoun stuff that series is god damn classic sci-fi that I thought was their whole point.
This is how you can tell the "classic sci-fi" stuff is basically dog-whistling
This was a vanity project, and has been from the beginning
As much as certain folks have made this a battleground in the culture wars, the fire started when Larry and Brad felt slighted by not getting an award they were nominated for, and they've invented an emotional narrative they can use in many different ways to feed the rage engine
Do they not realise that their preferred authors would have probably been more successful if they weren't on the Puppies slate?
Vox day specifically literally could not care less about those authors and their works. What he cares about is them winning or losing or being talked about at all because of him.
I recognise the type.
I imagine this was a victory for him. His position in the industry has risen from nobody to the center of attention, and his income and audience has no doubt risen by becoming the center of right wing fandom. Knowing how this shit work, he's probably also developing contacts and streams of income in the right wing media.
Think this whole mess is showing more and more to the media how easy its becoming to completely screw with a nomination and voting system to get pre-emptive perceptions out of the results. Once more though it is going to be the reaction from the awards organisers and those in authority that will become the battleground for all parties.
Do they not realise that their preferred authors would have probably been more successful if they weren't on the Puppies slate?
Vox day specifically literally could not care less about those authors and their works. What he cares about is them winning or losing or being talked about at all because of him.
I recognise the type.
I imagine this was a victory for him. His position in the industry has risen from nobody to the center of attention, and his income and audience has no doubt risen by becoming the center of right wing fandom. Knowing how this shit work, he's probably also developing contacts and streams of income in the right wing media.
It's only a victory in a sense every other angle he came up a huge failure. And with that it'd be a minor victory for himself, not the Puppies. Of course if that was his true intention he trolled the conservative SFF movement and they never caught on.
Larry Correia speaks, missing the fact why his attempts failed to game the Hugo's. Using hyperbole to paint his opponents as monsters because the world really likes the puppies, right? It can't be that they're wrong in this. Ten internet dollars he repeats what he did this year with Sad Puppies 4 and becomes a defacto leader again.
As you all know by now, the Hugo Awards were presented Saturday, and No Award dominated most of the categories. Rather than let any outsiders win, they burned their village in order to “save it”. And they did so while cheering, gloating, and generally being snide exclusive assholes about it. This year’s awards have an asterisk next to them. It was all about politics rather than the quality of the work. Even the pre-award show was a totally biased joke. In addition they changed the voting rules to make their archaic rules system even more convoluted in order to keep out future barbarian hordes. They gave as many No Awards this time as in the entire history of the awards.
So like I said yesterday… See? I told you so.
People have asked me if I’m disappointed in the results. Yes. But maybe not in the way you might expect. I’ll talk about the slap in the face to specific nominees in a minute, but I can’t say I’m surprised by what happened, when it was just an extreme example of what I predicted would happen three years ago when I started all this.
I said the Hugos no longer represented all of Fandom, instead they only represents tiny, insular, politically motivated cliques taking turns giving their friends awards. If you wanted to be considered, you needed to belong to, or suck up to those voting cliques. I was called a liar.
I said that most of the voters cared far more about the author’s identity and politics than they did the quality of the work, and in fact, the quality of the work would be completely ignored if the creator had the wrong politics. I was called a liar.
I said that if somebody with the wrong politics got a nomination, they would be actively campaigned against, slandered, and attacked, not for the quality of their work, but because of politics. I was called a liar.
That’s how the Sad Puppies campaign started. You can see the results. They freaked out and did what I said they would do. This year others took over, in the hopes of getting worthy, quality works nominated who would normally be ignored. It got worse. They freaked out so much that even I was surprised.
Each year it got a little bigger, and the resulting backlash got a little louder and nastier, culminating in this year’s continual international media slander campaign. Most of the media latched onto a narrative about the campaign being sexist white males trying to keep women and minorities out of publishing. That narrative is so ridiculous that a few minutes of cursory research shows that if that was our secret goal, then we must be really bad at it, considering not just who we nominated, but who our organizers and supporters are, but hey… Like I said, it is all about politics, and if it isn’t, they’re going to make it that way. You repeat a lie often enough, and people will believe it.
It isn’t about truth. It is about turf.
We saw all sorts of arguments this year. They’d nitpick everything they could to make us the evil outsiders. When it was just me, they made it all about me. When it was bigger than just me, they spread the love (though I still got labeled as a sexist, racist, homophobic, woman hating, wife beater with zero evidence which is always a treat) and went after our supporters. People who agreed with us were misogynists and our female supporters became tokens.
There was lots of virtue signaling. They represented purity and tradition, basically all goodness, and since they used up all the goodness, ergo we could only be motivated by greed, spite, and hate. Since most of us never said anything outlandish or offensive, they picked the most controversial figure they could from an allied movement, and ascribed everything they’ve ever said about him to all of us, and if we failed to denounce sufficiently, said we must be the same. Meanwhile, they don’t have to denounce their assholes, and instead continue to shower praise and awards on literal NAMBLA supporters.
I’ll skip over the boorish behavior from Saturday night, the SJW panic attacks from being triggered at the freebie table, and an editor cursing at probably the meekest, politest author I know, and talk about the actual categories. I’ve only had time to give the numbers a cursory glance, but it looks like you’ve got five to six hundred Sad Puppies, five to six hundred Rabid Puppies, and about 3,000 CHORFs and allied useful idiots, with the remainder being normal fans. This year there was about 1 of us to every 3 of them.
Right off the bat you can look through our nomination numbers from all of the categories and see that the crying about our super evil slate voting was nonsense. The actual numbers between the various Puppy nominees varied wildly, with some Puppy favorites falling just outside of the short list where we can see the same thing. Yeah, I figured that. All of those charges about voting in lockstep? Nope. The only real lockstep slate vote went to No Award.
No Award is for nominees who are not award worthy. Notice that on these nominees they railed against their identities, the philosophies of who liked them, and the politics of how they were nominated, but we seldom if ever heard anything about the quality of their work. Quality of the work had nothing to do with it. The NA crowd can cache it however they want, they’re defending tradition, this is their thing, it is special to them, they’re TRUEFAN, they’ve been attending since the ‘70s, we’re outsiders, we upset them, how dare we! So on and so forth, but ultimately all those NA categories came down to politics over quality.
Let’s look at a few of our record five No Award categories. This is where we get to the part where I’m actually disappointed. I knew there were a lot of biased assholes in fandom, but I was surprised at the depths they’d sink.
Kary English is a damned fine writer. I don’t even know what her politics are. We picked her as one of our nominees because she wrote a really solid story. She got 874 votes for best short story. I believe that is one of the highest number of votes for a short story in Hugo history. No Award got 3,000.
That’s asinine. Honestly compare Totaled to some of the short stories that they had no problem with before… That vote had nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with turf. You assholes are celebrating punishing her, and you justify it because you don’t like people like me.
But that’s not the category that is really absurd. Let’s look at Best Editor, Long Form.
Now, a little background on Best Editor, and why there is a Long and Short form. It used to be just Best Editor, only it usually went to short fiction magazine editors. Until Patrick Nielsen Hayden complained one year that he’d edited most of Best Novel nominees (well, that’s a shock) and he didn’t ever get to be Best Editor, so they made a category for him to win every other year (literally).
But there are no cliques or bias!
Editor Toni Weisskopf is a professional’s professional. She has run one of the main sci-fi publishing houses for a decade. She has edited hundreds of books. She has discovered, taught, and nurtured a huge stable of authors, many of whom are extremely popular bestsellers. You will often hear authors complain about their editors and their publishers, but you’re pretty hard pressed to find anyone who has written for her who has anything but glowing praise for Toni.
Yet before Sad Puppies came along, Toni had never received a Hugo nomination. Zero. The above mentioned Patrick Nielsen Hayden has 8. Toni’s problem was that she just didn’t care and she didn’t play the WorldCon politics. Her only concern was making the fans happy. She publishes any author who can do that, regardless of their politics. She’s always felt that the real awards were in the royalty checks. Watching her get ignored was one of the things that spurred me into starting Sad Puppies. If anybody deserved the Hugo, it was her.
This year Toni got a whopping 1,216 first place votes for Best Editor. That isn’t just a record. That is FOUR TIMES higher than the previous record. Shelia Gilbert came in next with an amazing 754. I believe that Toni is such a class act that beforehand she even said she thought Shelia Gilbert deserved to win. Fans love Toni.
Logically you would think that she would be award worthy, since the only Baen books to be nominated for a Hugo prior to Sad Puppies were edited by her (Bujold) and none of those were No Awarded. Last year she had the most first place votes, and came in second only after the weird Australian Rules voting kicked in (don’t worry everybody, they just voted to make the system even more complicated), so she was apparently award worthy last year.
Toni Weisskopf has been part of organized Fandom (capital F) since she was a little kid, so all that bloviating about how Fandom is precious, and sacred, and your special home since the ‘70s which you need to keep as a safe space free of barbarians, blah, blah, blah, yeah, that applies to Toni just as much as it does to you CHORFs. You know how you guys paid back her lifetime of involvement in Fandom?
By giving 2,496 votes to No Award.
So what changed, WorldCon? We both know the answer. It was more important that you send a message to the outsiders than it was to honor someone who was truly deserving, and that message was This is ours, keep out. That’s why I’m disappointed. I wanted the mask to come off and for the world to see how the sausage was really made, but even I was a little surprised by just how vile you are.
Same thing with Editor, short form. Mike Resnick has the wrong politics, but he makes up for it by being a living legend, and a major part of fandom for decades. He’s super involved and has helped launch more careers than anyone can count. When they went through and broke down Hugo winners by politics over the last couple of decades, he was one of the few who was good enough and famous to still win. He should’ve won this year, big time. But nope. Brad Torgersen endorsed him. Send the message. Same category, Jennifer Brozek, have zero idea what she believes about anything, despite working on stuff that was worthy before, No Award, because Larry Correia endorsed due to her quality work on Shattered Shields. Send the message.
Resnick and Weisskopf losing is particularly galling. CHORFs don’t care about tradition. You have no honor. You only care about protecting your turf. You’re inclusive and welcoming, provided the newcomers kiss your ass and don’t get uppity. And old timers? Heaven forbid somebody with badthink endorses them, because then they either have to debase themselves and beg for mercy, or you’ll burn them too. I talked about how this poisonous culture scares many writers into self-censoring before, and you gave them a great example too. Stay in the lines or else.
Oh, and all that bullshit you spew about fighting for diversity? Everyone knows that is a smokescreen. You talk about diversity, but simultaneously had no problem putting No Award over award nominated females because they were nominated by fans you declared to be sexist. Wait… So let me see if I’ve got this straight, you denied deserving women like Toni, Cedar, Kary, Jennifer, Shelia, and Amanda, just to send a message, but we’re the bad guys? I don’t think so. Or as one of our female nominees said, this Puppy has been muzzled. http://cedarwrites.com/this-puppy-has-been-muzzled/
So who really won the Hugos this year? It was 3 to 1 in votes against the two Puppy factions, so they beat us in numbers big time. I’m not going to try to spin that (hell, after the media blitz about how you noble Fans were bravely holding off an invasion of hateful white males hatemongers of hate, I’m surprised that’s all you got) they own Worldcon. At least now they finally admit that. For the Sad Puppies, I don’t know what they’re planning to do next. I’m not in charge. Kate Paulk is. Sarah was supposed to be in charge this year but she fell ill. I wanted to wash my hands of this thing last year and Brad asked me to come back. Over three years the Puppy numbers went from a handful, to hundreds, to over a thousand. The question now is do we want to keep throwing money at a bunch of ungrateful bastards who keep changing the rules to forbid us, or change tactics. Either way, not my call, not my problem. I’m sick of this crap.
No Award is the big winner. Only time will tell, but for FANDOM and the CHORFs I think you’ve got yourself a pyrrhic victory. So many of you don’t seem to realize that this isn’t just about the awards, and culture wars are a spectator sport. WorldCon was shrinking and greying, and now you can rejoice as it goes back to the comfy way you like it. You want to know why? Read this.
“Attending the Hugo Awards from the perspective of a 12 and 14 year old.”
I took my kids to WorldCon to expose them to Fandom and I’ve consciously shielded them from any of the politics of the kerfuffle associated with the literary “sides” that were in play.
When we attended, we had good seats and they were excited to see if some of their choices would make it.
Let’s just say that my boys ended up being exposed to some of their categories being utterly eradicated from eligibility due to this thing that I’d shielded them from.
They couldn’t understand why their short story choice evaporated into something called “NO AWARD.”
As I briefly explained, the audience was cheering because of that decision and the MC made a point of saying that cheering was appropriate and boos were not.
My kids were shocked.
Shocked not by not winning but by having an entire category’s rug being pulled out from under it and then having all the adults (many of which were old enough to be their grandparents) cheering for something my kids looked at as an unfair tragedy.
I’ll admit to having feared this outcome – yet this was my children’s introduction to Fandom.
We are driving home and they are of the opinion that they aren’t particularly interested in this “Fandom” thing.
I find that a great shame – and I blame not the people who established the ballots to vote for (for my kids enjoyed a great deal of what they read on the ballots), but as my kids noted – they blame the ones who made them feel “like the rug was pulled out from under me.”
I’d offered Fandom my boys – my boys now reject them.
And yes, the picture below is just before us walking to the Hugo ceremonies. They’re excited about it all. I just find it a pity that they didn’t feel anything other than bewilderment and bitterness toward the people in the auditorium after the ceremonies.
That’s the future you elitist exclusive snobs want. Sasquan talked about their record numbers, and record attendance, record supporting memberships, record votes (not to mention record money), but then to commemorate it, you gave them an asterisk for violating your secret gentlemen’s agreements, and told them their kind isn’t welcome in Trufandom. Thinking about the asterisk though, didn’t any of you special snowflakes watch Community? None of my people got any awards, so it isn’t our flag that’s an anus. But fly your anus high, WorldCon, because those two kids will probably be published authors themselves, having fun with other Wrongfans at other cons by the time Gerrold finishes the next Chtorr book.
The real winner this year was Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies. Yep. You CHORFing idiots don’t seem to realize that Brad, Sarah, and I were the reasonable ones who spent most of the summer talking Vox out of having his people No Award the whole thing to burn it down, but then you did it for him. He got the best of both worlds. Oh, but now you’re going to say that Three Body Problem won, and that’s a victory for diversity! You poor deluded fools… That was Vox’s pick for best novel. That’s the one most of the Rabid Puppies voted for too.
Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT.
And if that doesn’t prove my original point about this fucked up system being more about politics than the quality of the work, I don’t know what will. One of the only two fiction works that actually received an award this year would have been a Rabid Puppy nominee except for timing, and you would’ve No Awarded the winner just to send your little message.
The outrage this summer is all about politics and protecting turf. Look at the nomination numbers. There is a significant correlation between amount of butt hurt and who was supposed to have made it.
Other than the Puppy noms, look through all the supporting categories and look how tiny their numbers are. Yeah, the Puppies crushed them and locked them out, but not through malicious slate voting. It doesn’t take a lockstep slate to beat a system that is so pathetic a couple dozen friends can swing it.
The cliques are small and inbred. Don’t believe me, think about who our biggest haters are, and then scroll through the list and see who didn’t get Hugo nominations because my side showed up for once. Check out Fan Writer. Look at the list of who would’ve made it if it hadn’t been for us. Funny. Most of those names look familiar, usually because they’re ranting about sexist/racist hate boogeymen.
Same thing with Best Related Work and the other little categories. No wonder Hines has been on the warpath. We interrupted his destiny. As GRRM said, he’s served his time, damn it! Hell, if we’d not shown up culture warrior Anita Sarkeesian would have been a nominee, and you say that we’re the ones who involved GamerGate? And for all of Empress Theresa’s bloviating about us keeping off the 2nd volume of the Heinlein dialogs, that’s a smoke screen because it wouldn’t have made it anyway. Oh, and there’s Glyer 45 Hugos. No wonder he’s pissed. If it hadn’t been for Puppies his title would be Glyer 46 Hugos. Sheesh. Scroll down that list. Lots of familiar names with pathetically small vote counts that would’ve otherwise made it, but there are no entrenched cliques. Uh huh.
Anyways, I’m glad it’s over. I can’t wait to see what new exciting ways they come up with to slander anyone who disagrees with them next year.
edit: He omitted that Toni Weisskopf is the publisher of Baen Books, who publish a lot of his own work.
Larry Correia speaks, missing the fact why his attempts failed to game the Hugo's. Using hyperbole to paint his opponents as monsters because the world really likes the puppies, right? It can't be that they're wrong in this. Ten internet dollars he repeats what he did this year with Sad Puppies 4 and becomes a defacto leader again.
As you all know by now, the Hugo Awards were presented Saturday, and No Award dominated most of the categories. Rather than let any outsiders win, they burned their village in order to “save it”. And they did so while cheering, gloating, and generally being snide exclusive assholes about it. This year’s awards have an asterisk next to them. It was all about politics rather than the quality of the work. Even the pre-award show was a totally biased joke. In addition they changed the voting rules to make their archaic rules system even more convoluted in order to keep out future barbarian hordes. They gave as many No Awards this time as in the entire history of the awards.
So like I said yesterday… See? I told you so.
People have asked me if I’m disappointed in the results. Yes. But maybe not in the way you might expect. I’ll talk about the slap in the face to specific nominees in a minute, but I can’t say I’m surprised by what happened, when it was just an extreme example of what I predicted would happen three years ago when I started all this.
I said the Hugos no longer represented all of Fandom, instead they only represents tiny, insular, politically motivated cliques taking turns giving their friends awards. If you wanted to be considered, you needed to belong to, or suck up to those voting cliques. I was called a liar.
I said that most of the voters cared far more about the author’s identity and politics than they did the quality of the work, and in fact, the quality of the work would be completely ignored if the creator had the wrong politics. I was called a liar.
I said that if somebody with the wrong politics got a nomination, they would be actively campaigned against, slandered, and attacked, not for the quality of their work, but because of politics. I was called a liar.
That’s how the Sad Puppies campaign started. You can see the results. They freaked out and did what I said they would do. This year others took over, in the hopes of getting worthy, quality works nominated who would normally be ignored. It got worse. They freaked out so much that even I was surprised.
Each year it got a little bigger, and the resulting backlash got a little louder and nastier, culminating in this year’s continual international media slander campaign. Most of the media latched onto a narrative about the campaign being sexist white males trying to keep women and minorities out of publishing. That narrative is so ridiculous that a few minutes of cursory research shows that if that was our secret goal, then we must be really bad at it, considering not just who we nominated, but who our organizers and supporters are, but hey… Like I said, it is all about politics, and if it isn’t, they’re going to make it that way. You repeat a lie often enough, and people will believe it.
It isn’t about truth. It is about turf.
We saw all sorts of arguments this year. They’d nitpick everything they could to make us the evil outsiders. When it was just me, they made it all about me. When it was bigger than just me, they spread the love (though I still got labeled as a sexist, racist, homophobic, woman hating, wife beater with zero evidence which is always a treat) and went after our supporters. People who agreed with us were misogynists and our female supporters became tokens.
There was lots of virtue signaling. They represented purity and tradition, basically all goodness, and since they used up all the goodness, ergo we could only be motivated by greed, spite, and hate. Since most of us never said anything outlandish or offensive, they picked the most controversial figure they could from an allied movement, and ascribed everything they’ve ever said about him to all of us, and if we failed to denounce sufficiently, said we must be the same. Meanwhile, they don’t have to denounce their assholes, and instead continue to shower praise and awards on literal NAMBLA supporters.
I’ll skip over the boorish behavior from Saturday night, the SJW panic attacks from being triggered at the freebie table, and an editor cursing at probably the meekest, politest author I know, and talk about the actual categories. I’ve only had time to give the numbers a cursory glance, but it looks like you’ve got five to six hundred Sad Puppies, five to six hundred Rabid Puppies, and about 3,000 CHORFs and allied useful idiots, with the remainder being normal fans. This year there was about 1 of us to every 3 of them.
Right off the bat you can look through our nomination numbers from all of the categories and see that the crying about our super evil slate voting was nonsense. The actual numbers between the various Puppy nominees varied wildly, with some Puppy favorites falling just outside of the short list where we can see the same thing. Yeah, I figured that. All of those charges about voting in lockstep? Nope. The only real lockstep slate vote went to No Award.
No Award is for nominees who are not award worthy. Notice that on these nominees they railed against their identities, the philosophies of who liked them, and the politics of how they were nominated, but we seldom if ever heard anything about the quality of their work. Quality of the work had nothing to do with it. The NA crowd can cache it however they want, they’re defending tradition, this is their thing, it is special to them, they’re TRUEFAN, they’ve been attending since the ‘70s, we’re outsiders, we upset them, how dare we! So on and so forth, but ultimately all those NA categories came down to politics over quality.
Let’s look at a few of our record five No Award categories. This is where we get to the part where I’m actually disappointed. I knew there were a lot of biased assholes in fandom, but I was surprised at the depths they’d sink.
Kary English is a damned fine writer. I don’t even know what her politics are. We picked her as one of our nominees because she wrote a really solid story. She got 874 votes for best short story. I believe that is one of the highest number of votes for a short story in Hugo history. No Award got 3,000.
That’s asinine. Honestly compare Totaled to some of the short stories that they had no problem with before… That vote had nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with turf. You assholes are celebrating punishing her, and you justify it because you don’t like people like me.
But that’s not the category that is really absurd. Let’s look at Best Editor, Long Form.
Now, a little background on Best Editor, and why there is a Long and Short form. It used to be just Best Editor, only it usually went to short fiction magazine editors. Until Patrick Nielsen Hayden complained one year that he’d edited most of Best Novel nominees (well, that’s a shock) and he didn’t ever get to be Best Editor, so they made a category for him to win every other year (literally).
But there are no cliques or bias!
Editor Toni Weisskopf is a professional’s professional. She has run one of the main sci-fi publishing houses for a decade. She has edited hundreds of books. She has discovered, taught, and nurtured a huge stable of authors, many of whom are extremely popular bestsellers. You will often hear authors complain about their editors and their publishers, but you’re pretty hard pressed to find anyone who has written for her who has anything but glowing praise for Toni.
Yet before Sad Puppies came along, Toni had never received a Hugo nomination. Zero. The above mentioned Patrick Nielsen Hayden has 8. Toni’s problem was that she just didn’t care and she didn’t play the WorldCon politics. Her only concern was making the fans happy. She publishes any author who can do that, regardless of their politics. She’s always felt that the real awards were in the royalty checks. Watching her get ignored was one of the things that spurred me into starting Sad Puppies. If anybody deserved the Hugo, it was her.
This year Toni got a whopping 1,216 first place votes for Best Editor. That isn’t just a record. That is FOUR TIMES higher than the previous record. Shelia Gilbert came in next with an amazing 754. I believe that Toni is such a class act that beforehand she even said she thought Shelia Gilbert deserved to win. Fans love Toni.
Logically you would think that she would be award worthy, since the only Baen books to be nominated for a Hugo prior to Sad Puppies were edited by her (Bujold) and none of those were No Awarded. Last year she had the most first place votes, and came in second only after the weird Australian Rules voting kicked in (don’t worry everybody, they just voted to make the system even more complicated), so she was apparently award worthy last year.
Toni Weisskopf has been part of organized Fandom (capital F) since she was a little kid, so all that bloviating about how Fandom is precious, and sacred, and your special home since the ‘70s which you need to keep as a safe space free of barbarians, blah, blah, blah, yeah, that applies to Toni just as much as it does to you CHORFs. You know how you guys paid back her lifetime of involvement in Fandom?
By giving 2,496 votes to No Award.
So what changed, WorldCon? We both know the answer. It was more important that you send a message to the outsiders than it was to honor someone who was truly deserving, and that message was This is ours, keep out. That’s why I’m disappointed. I wanted the mask to come off and for the world to see how the sausage was really made, but even I was a little surprised by just how vile you are.
Same thing with Editor, short form. Mike Resnick has the wrong politics, but he makes up for it by being a living legend, and a major part of fandom for decades. He’s super involved and has helped launch more careers than anyone can count. When they went through and broke down Hugo winners by politics over the last couple of decades, he was one of the few who was good enough and famous to still win. He should’ve won this year, big time. But nope. Brad Torgersen endorsed him. Send the message. Same category, Jennifer Brozek, have zero idea what she believes about anything, despite working on stuff that was worthy before, No Award, because Larry Correia endorsed due to her quality work on Shattered Shields. Send the message.
Resnick and Weisskopf losing is particularly galling. CHORFs don’t care about tradition. You have no honor. You only care about protecting your turf. You’re inclusive and welcoming, provided the newcomers kiss your ass and don’t get uppity. And old timers? Heaven forbid somebody with badthink endorses them, because then they either have to debase themselves and beg for mercy, or you’ll burn them too. I talked about how this poisonous culture scares many writers into self-censoring before, and you gave them a great example too. Stay in the lines or else.
Oh, and all that bullshit you spew about fighting for diversity? Everyone knows that is a smokescreen. You talk about diversity, but simultaneously had no problem putting No Award over award nominated females because they were nominated by fans you declared to be sexist. Wait… So let me see if I’ve got this straight, you denied deserving women like Toni, Cedar, Kary, Jennifer, Shelia, and Amanda, just to send a message, but we’re the bad guys? I don’t think so. Or as one of our female nominees said, this Puppy has been muzzled. http://cedarwrites.com/this-puppy-has-been-muzzled/
So who really won the Hugos this year? It was 3 to 1 in votes against the two Puppy factions, so they beat us in numbers big time. I’m not going to try to spin that (hell, after the media blitz about how you noble Fans were bravely holding off an invasion of hateful white males hatemongers of hate, I’m surprised that’s all you got) they own Worldcon. At least now they finally admit that. For the Sad Puppies, I don’t know what they’re planning to do next. I’m not in charge. Kate Paulk is. Sarah was supposed to be in charge this year but she fell ill. I wanted to wash my hands of this thing last year and Brad asked me to come back. Over three years the Puppy numbers went from a handful, to hundreds, to over a thousand. The question now is do we want to keep throwing money at a bunch of ungrateful bastards who keep changing the rules to forbid us, or change tactics. Either way, not my call, not my problem. I’m sick of this crap.
No Award is the big winner. Only time will tell, but for FANDOM and the CHORFs I think you’ve got yourself a pyrrhic victory. So many of you don’t seem to realize that this isn’t just about the awards, and culture wars are a spectator sport. WorldCon was shrinking and greying, and now you can rejoice as it goes back to the comfy way you like it. You want to know why? Read this.
“Attending the Hugo Awards from the perspective of a 12 and 14 year old.”
I took my kids to WorldCon to expose them to Fandom and I’ve consciously shielded them from any of the politics of the kerfuffle associated with the literary “sides” that were in play.
When we attended, we had good seats and they were excited to see if some of their choices would make it.
Let’s just say that my boys ended up being exposed to some of their categories being utterly eradicated from eligibility due to this thing that I’d shielded them from.
They couldn’t understand why their short story choice evaporated into something called “NO AWARD.”
As I briefly explained, the audience was cheering because of that decision and the MC made a point of saying that cheering was appropriate and boos were not.
My kids were shocked.
Shocked not by not winning but by having an entire category’s rug being pulled out from under it and then having all the adults (many of which were old enough to be their grandparents) cheering for something my kids looked at as an unfair tragedy.
I’ll admit to having feared this outcome – yet this was my children’s introduction to Fandom.
We are driving home and they are of the opinion that they aren’t particularly interested in this “Fandom” thing.
I find that a great shame – and I blame not the people who established the ballots to vote for (for my kids enjoyed a great deal of what they read on the ballots), but as my kids noted – they blame the ones who made them feel “like the rug was pulled out from under me.”
I’d offered Fandom my boys – my boys now reject them.
And yes, the picture below is just before us walking to the Hugo ceremonies. They’re excited about it all. I just find it a pity that they didn’t feel anything other than bewilderment and bitterness toward the people in the auditorium after the ceremonies.
That’s the future you elitist exclusive snobs want. Sasquan talked about their record numbers, and record attendance, record supporting memberships, record votes (not to mention record money), but then to commemorate it, you gave them an asterisk for violating your secret gentlemen’s agreements, and told them their kind isn’t welcome in Trufandom. Thinking about the asterisk though, didn’t any of you special snowflakes watch Community? None of my people got any awards, so it isn’t our flag that’s an anus. But fly your anus high, WorldCon, because those two kids will probably be published authors themselves, having fun with other Wrongfans at other cons by the time Gerrold finishes the next Chtorr book.
The real winner this year was Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies. Yep. You CHORFing idiots don’t seem to realize that Brad, Sarah, and I were the reasonable ones who spent most of the summer talking Vox out of having his people No Award the whole thing to burn it down, but then you did it for him. He got the best of both worlds. Oh, but now you’re going to say that Three Body Problem won, and that’s a victory for diversity! You poor deluded fools… That was Vox’s pick for best novel. That’s the one most of the Rabid Puppies voted for too.
Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT.
And if that doesn’t prove my original point about this fucked up system being more about politics than the quality of the work, I don’t know what will. One of the only two fiction works that actually received an award this year would have been a Rabid Puppy nominee except for timing, and you would’ve No Awarded the winner just to send your little message.
The outrage this summer is all about politics and protecting turf. Look at the nomination numbers. There is a significant correlation between amount of butt hurt and who was supposed to have made it.
Other than the Puppy noms, look through all the supporting categories and look how tiny their numbers are. Yeah, the Puppies crushed them and locked them out, but not through malicious slate voting. It doesn’t take a lockstep slate to beat a system that is so pathetic a couple dozen friends can swing it.
The cliques are small and inbred. Don’t believe me, think about who our biggest haters are, and then scroll through the list and see who didn’t get Hugo nominations because my side showed up for once. Check out Fan Writer. Look at the list of who would’ve made it if it hadn’t been for us. Funny. Most of those names look familiar, usually because they’re ranting about sexist/racist hate boogeymen.
Same thing with Best Related Work and the other little categories. No wonder Hines has been on the warpath. We interrupted his destiny. As GRRM said, he’s served his time, damn it! Hell, if we’d not shown up culture warrior Anita Sarkeesian would have been a nominee, and you say that we’re the ones who involved GamerGate? And for all of Empress Theresa’s bloviating about us keeping off the 2nd volume of the Heinlein dialogs, that’s a smoke screen because it wouldn’t have made it anyway. Oh, and there’s Glyer 45 Hugos. No wonder he’s pissed. If it hadn’t been for Puppies his title would be Glyer 46 Hugos. Sheesh. Scroll down that list. Lots of familiar names with pathetically small vote counts that would’ve otherwise made it, but there are no entrenched cliques. Uh huh.
Anyways, I’m glad it’s over. I can’t wait to see what new exciting ways they come up with to slander anyone who disagrees with them next year.
Yes, Larry. You were the one who bought GG into this. Can't find the twitter he did that with, he must have deleted it.
He has a particularly type of blind spot that is very common nowadays. He can't imagine his opinion isn't the one most people have. The "Silent Majority" fallacy. The group that massively outvoted his group must be the small insular group. The group that reacted to an organized effort to game the system, especially by bringing in people who were only doing so in order to further political goals, are the ones not playing fair or in the spirit of the awards.
Faced with the reality that people voting for women, or gays or whatever are largely doing so because of the quality of the work and not for some kind of affirmative action like he believes, he can't accept it and invents a conspiracy. Its pathetic.
I actually kinda like the monster hunter books but he has to realize he is not literary award type writer. He writes pulp and when one is in the right mood pulp if totally fine and he sells well enough to make a living at that. If anything this whole puppy nonsense is more likely to hurt his cause in the long run than it is to help it.
I point you to this. I haven’t seen a better write-up of SJW scummery or a more rational, logical discussion of why this year’s Hugo awards were an embarrassment and a black mark on science fiction writ large.
In the past, I have written extensively about the degree to which the Social Justice Left, rather like a schoolyard bully, began its fanatical crusade by targeting art forms and subcultures most often enjoyed by nerds, seeing them as a low status, easy target. If nerds are the “sad puppies,” then the Left saw them as proverbial Chihuahuas. Unfortunately, as the rise of the actual Sad Puppies and the year-long counter-crusade known as #Gamergate shows, these “puppies” are more like abused Dobermans that have been backed into a corner, and who are now mauling their tormentors. The Left’s #WaronNerds was supposed to be a blitzkrieg. It has become an overwhelming rout for those who instigated it.
However, perhaps due to war weariness or simple desire to avoid politics, many members of the gaming or Sci-Fi communities have tried to adopt a “why can’t we all just get along?” approach. They’ve tried to argue that the best solution is for their communities to have room for both social justice warriors and old school nerd traditionalists.
The Hugo Awards have shown us that this is impossible. The Social Justice Left will not be satisfied unless it has complete control over the spaces it infiltrates. If it cannot control a space, it will burn it down and salt the earth. If they could, they would probably torch every script of Shakespeare’s The Taming of the Shrew for being anti-feminist, every score of Mozart’s The Magic Flute for its unflattering depiction of its one mulatto character, every print of Apelles’ Venus Anadyomene for catering to the male gaze, and every other work that portrays, or was written by, someone with objectionable politics. This book burning bonfire of the vacuous would be large enough to be seen from space, if the satellites weren’t taken down for being too phallic.
For the record, this is repellent.
I admit to voting exclusively authors whose politics do not utterly repel me. #HugoAwards https://t.co/PhiaaAWfBT
For the record, I find that actively sabotaging great authors and editors and cheering their loss to a “NO AWARD” vote, because they happen to be exercising WrongThink or are supported by WrongFans is repellent.
For the record, I find that the fact that these bleating, pathetic mediocrities would rather actively facilitate a loss than see someone with whom they do not agree politically win an award, is beyond repellent.
They wield their social justice like a club with which they pummel anyone whom they consider guilty of WrongThink. But it’s not enough to oppose them. They must destroy them. And screw it, if the fans don’t like it! The RightFans will understand why it’s important to destroy any vestige of thought with which they disagree. Screw the rest of them.
And you know what? They’ve succeeded in //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js“>muzzling at least one sensitive, beautiful, feminine voice.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
[…]
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
And while the SJW scum dance about defeating those old, white men of science fiction, what they have defeated is a much more diverse, exciting, brilliant slate of authors and other literary professionals than they could ever possibly imagine! Certainly much more diverse than what actually took home an award this year!
Congrats, SJWs. You’ve certainly alienated this fan. I can promise you that not one more penny of my earnings will go to anything with which that smarmy fuck David Gerrold is involved. Not another penny to Tor publishing, whose employees seem to make regular sport of dragging those with whose politics they disagree (yes, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, you! Yes, Irene Gallo, you!). Not another penny to George R.R. Martin. And by the way, P-rick, you’re lucky John C. Wright’s wife is as kind as she is. I would have punched you in your smarmy fucking face had you gone off on me the way you did after I had approached you with an olive branch.
I told myself I would just point to the original article and be done with it. But apparently, I needed to get this off my chest. I’m repulsed by everything the social justice warriors stand for.
They are attempting to destroy art, literature, journalism, and performance and remake it into what THEY approve of, not what is beautiful, sensual, interesting, or innovative. They treasure the political message over what traditionally has made art and literature great. They attempt to destroy anything with which they don’t agree, anything that offends their tender sensibilities, and anything that’s created by those whom they revile.
They don’t care about art. They care about destroying the artist.
They don’t care about literature. They care about muzzling the author.
Screw them.
Just thought I’d also point you to some wonderful writers and people I consider friends and their takes on what I consider to be a debacle in the sci-fi world.
From Larry Correia, who started this Sad Puppy movement: Sad Puppies 3: Looking at the Results. You all really need to read this one, because you will understand fully and completely just how much fuckery was involved in this year’s Hugo Awards.
From the incredible Sarah A. Hoyt: Burning Down the Field in Order to Save It.
From freelance editor Matthew Bowman: The Hugos, Now With No Mask to Hide Behind.
From author Tom Knighton: My Thoughts on the Hugo Awards and From Me to Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
Author John C. Wright on P-rick’s unprofessional and downright disgusting behavior.
Mike Williamson: No Award.
There are more, and if I find worthy ones, I’ll post them here.
Wow, what a asshole. He claims that fandom being so insular is the reason that slate won, that its so small that a few friends could swing the ballots.
Guess he didn't look at the number of nominations did he. Best novel got 588 entries. Short Story got 728. The editor categories had 187 and 124 respectively.
Hey Idiot, the reason you managed to get the slate through was because the rest of fandom nominated a huge number of different stories. Since there is a limit to the number of nominations each voter can nominate, the huge number of total nominees shows that the voters nominated the works/people they though should win. If there existed a secret SJW slate, the number of nominees would be way smaller.
Your nomination victory was the result of the rest of fandom not marching in lockstep to a secret cabal of SJW.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Posts
Yea, like removing Beale for his comments about other members of the organization being subhuman? RIghto, kick his ass out. They were in the process of doing that but the rules required like two years or something to make it happen.
Torgensen so far has only made arguments that have (as far as I've seen) been civil if a bit naive in the larger context. Him having a dissenting opinion shouldn't really be grounds for expulsion.
I kinda think that slate making, which is entirely within the rules if not the spirit, should also not be a bannable offense. I do think they should change the nomination process to make it less susceptible to it though.
I predict that his endgame goal is to force a round of the Hugos in which no award is given at all.
But! Looking at this year's nominated works and seeing what fell where below the Puppy output, I don't think it requires a counter-slate, just a more concerted effort among fans to share things we love so that more ordinary fans feel confident filling in nomination ballots instead of feeling unqualified to do so. I think it's up to the fans to talk more about the books we loved *this* year that were published *this* year a little closer to nomination time.
and this is your polite reminder that if you bought a membership this year, please please please nominate something next year - - it does not matter if you only read three short stories you liked in 2015, just nominate the things you enjoyed! You don't need any qualifications to make a nomination, and if you have a 2015 membership, attending OR supporting, you are already set up to be a nominating member next year.
Uncanny Magazine!
The Mad Writers Union
What he wants to do is make sure it's no fun for anyone; I'm pretty sure that's the only way he could do so. He is trying to goad slash-and-burn tactics purposefully.
Uncanny Magazine!
The Mad Writers Union
Flaming Kibble will always have something to claim as a victory.
This time the no award line was just the best spin he could put on these results that allowed him to claim a victory.
Then I found out he was part of the Puppy slate and I automatically decided to look elsewhere for my milspec SF fix. A writer that Vox Day, Brad Torgersen and Larry Correia though was "worthy" of Hugo awards was a big ass warning sign when it came to standard.
Since he dropped out I have tentatively put him back on the list of authors to check out, but he is far down the list now.
What I am trying to say is that the Puppies almost ruined Marko Kloos reputation with me by doing the slate shit. Cause if you need a slate to get the nod and if the slate was put together by shitlords, odds are you suck. And if you stick by the slate cause you want the nod that badly... then you are probably a shitlord to boot.
I dunno, Beale has a long history of failing at his stated goal and then screaming "ah ha! this was my super secret goal all along! I win!" Like, the dude never accepts anything as less than a victory condition for him, even when it's clearly not. I'd be surprised if he actually wants No Awards.
- Theadore Beale
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
His double dodeca-secret victory condition is that people are talking about him.
Without the slate, it actually probably would have won with an even larger percentage of the vote, as there's a significant voter presence (larger than the # of puppy voters) represented by people who automatically disqualified anything that appeared on either of the slates. That's probably why Winter Soldier came in as #2.
Milo Yiannopolous wades in with his usual situational awareness.
- John Stuart Mill
I prefer the very next line, when he refers to the no awards in novella and short stories are "a particular slap in the face to ordinary fans".
Because, you know, the people who had to organize in a slate because they've never had the numbers to be influential in the past are "ordinary fans."
I gotta disagree here. I think Vox Day's only goal is to burn it all down and No Award is part of that. It might be minor damage but this whole No Award counter-slate thing is still damage. OK maybe his most preferred outcome was to win every single award, but this strikes me as a more then acceptable outcome for someone's whose stated goal was to create chaos and destroy the Hugos. Remember he views this--like Gamergate-as another front in the culture wars.
No mention of the fact that No Award's got more votes then the puppy slate combined.
Box Day strikes me as the sort of guy who would be moderately satisfied with making sure everyone else loses. The dude is an atomic powered goose built in a secret government lab.
Yeah, but "No Award" winning as big as it did really is a big defeat for Day. He hasn't burned anything down, and the numbers prove he can't burn anything down. The puppies lost the vote 3:1. Regardless of what Day's preferred outcomes were, it's been decisively demonstrated that he and the puppies are a small (albeit non-trivial) demographic among SF-fandom as a whole.
So perhaps Day can claim he won a battle, but in the bigger picture, the idea that the kind of SF the puppies is like is the "true" form of SF that will win ALL the Hugos if only it could get past a nomination process that's been rigged by SJWs/TOR/SMOFs has been disproven. After yesterday, the puppies' only recourse is to claim that all of WorldCon and its attendees are part of a vast SJW conspiracy. And based on Twitter so far, that's what they seem to be doing. But down that path is madness. The implication of that line of thinking is, "true SF&F fans don't go to WorldCon and vote in the Hugos". That's just a nutty thing to claim.
edit: Hang on. His response on his blog reads: "See? I told you so." He truly is an idiot.
Torgensen's posted in the comments section of his blog with commentary. His argument is pretty much what I posted above: WorldCon and its attendees conspired to thwart the puppies.
Lots of carping that Toni Weisskopf lost to No Award even though she got a huge number of votes (in terms of winners of the Best Editor category in past years), and that's ultimate proof of the perfidious conspiracy of WorldCon voters. It, of course, never occurred to him to post that just maybe Toni received so many votes because the puppies conspired to vote for her.
He also posts a few hints about how Sad Puppies will proceed next year. Apparently, Sarah Hoyt and Kate Paulk will lead the effort.
So I google to answer "Who?" and as near as I can tell from finding her last blog she is a pillar of salt with no sense of irony.
I especially liked the dig at Ancillary [Can't be bothered to remember the noun]. Aside from the pronoun stuff that series is god damn classic sci-fi that I thought was their whole point.
This was a vanity project, and has been from the beginning
As much as certain folks have made this a battleground in the culture wars, the fire started when Larry and Brad felt slighted by not getting an award they were nominated for, and they've invented an emotional narrative they can use in many different ways to feed the rage engine
Uncanny Magazine!
The Mad Writers Union
Winning a Hugo, is completely secondary to him having a good "war story" about how he put one over the SJW and libbies at the Hugos.
I imagine this was a victory for him. His position in the industry has risen from nobody to the center of attention, and his income and audience has no doubt risen by becoming the center of right wing fandom. Knowing how this shit work, he's probably also developing contacts and streams of income in the right wing media.
It's only a victory in a sense every other angle he came up a huge failure. And with that it'd be a minor victory for himself, not the Puppies. Of course if that was his true intention he trolled the conservative SFF movement and they never caught on.
I[m not sure that he comprehends that there's a difference
"Chaos is a ladder."
http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/08/24/sad-puppies-3-looking-at-the-results/
So like I said yesterday… See? I told you so.
People have asked me if I’m disappointed in the results. Yes. But maybe not in the way you might expect. I’ll talk about the slap in the face to specific nominees in a minute, but I can’t say I’m surprised by what happened, when it was just an extreme example of what I predicted would happen three years ago when I started all this.
I said the Hugos no longer represented all of Fandom, instead they only represents tiny, insular, politically motivated cliques taking turns giving their friends awards. If you wanted to be considered, you needed to belong to, or suck up to those voting cliques. I was called a liar.
I said that most of the voters cared far more about the author’s identity and politics than they did the quality of the work, and in fact, the quality of the work would be completely ignored if the creator had the wrong politics. I was called a liar.
I said that if somebody with the wrong politics got a nomination, they would be actively campaigned against, slandered, and attacked, not for the quality of their work, but because of politics. I was called a liar.
That’s how the Sad Puppies campaign started. You can see the results. They freaked out and did what I said they would do. This year others took over, in the hopes of getting worthy, quality works nominated who would normally be ignored. It got worse. They freaked out so much that even I was surprised.
Each year it got a little bigger, and the resulting backlash got a little louder and nastier, culminating in this year’s continual international media slander campaign. Most of the media latched onto a narrative about the campaign being sexist white males trying to keep women and minorities out of publishing. That narrative is so ridiculous that a few minutes of cursory research shows that if that was our secret goal, then we must be really bad at it, considering not just who we nominated, but who our organizers and supporters are, but hey… Like I said, it is all about politics, and if it isn’t, they’re going to make it that way. You repeat a lie often enough, and people will believe it.
It isn’t about truth. It is about turf.
We saw all sorts of arguments this year. They’d nitpick everything they could to make us the evil outsiders. When it was just me, they made it all about me. When it was bigger than just me, they spread the love (though I still got labeled as a sexist, racist, homophobic, woman hating, wife beater with zero evidence which is always a treat) and went after our supporters. People who agreed with us were misogynists and our female supporters became tokens.
There was lots of virtue signaling. They represented purity and tradition, basically all goodness, and since they used up all the goodness, ergo we could only be motivated by greed, spite, and hate. Since most of us never said anything outlandish or offensive, they picked the most controversial figure they could from an allied movement, and ascribed everything they’ve ever said about him to all of us, and if we failed to denounce sufficiently, said we must be the same. Meanwhile, they don’t have to denounce their assholes, and instead continue to shower praise and awards on literal NAMBLA supporters.
I’ll skip over the boorish behavior from Saturday night, the SJW panic attacks from being triggered at the freebie table, and an editor cursing at probably the meekest, politest author I know, and talk about the actual categories. I’ve only had time to give the numbers a cursory glance, but it looks like you’ve got five to six hundred Sad Puppies, five to six hundred Rabid Puppies, and about 3,000 CHORFs and allied useful idiots, with the remainder being normal fans. This year there was about 1 of us to every 3 of them.
Right off the bat you can look through our nomination numbers from all of the categories and see that the crying about our super evil slate voting was nonsense. The actual numbers between the various Puppy nominees varied wildly, with some Puppy favorites falling just outside of the short list where we can see the same thing. Yeah, I figured that. All of those charges about voting in lockstep? Nope. The only real lockstep slate vote went to No Award.
No Award is for nominees who are not award worthy. Notice that on these nominees they railed against their identities, the philosophies of who liked them, and the politics of how they were nominated, but we seldom if ever heard anything about the quality of their work. Quality of the work had nothing to do with it. The NA crowd can cache it however they want, they’re defending tradition, this is their thing, it is special to them, they’re TRUEFAN, they’ve been attending since the ‘70s, we’re outsiders, we upset them, how dare we! So on and so forth, but ultimately all those NA categories came down to politics over quality.
Let’s look at a few of our record five No Award categories. This is where we get to the part where I’m actually disappointed. I knew there were a lot of biased assholes in fandom, but I was surprised at the depths they’d sink.
Kary English is a damned fine writer. I don’t even know what her politics are. We picked her as one of our nominees because she wrote a really solid story. She got 874 votes for best short story. I believe that is one of the highest number of votes for a short story in Hugo history. No Award got 3,000.
That’s asinine. Honestly compare Totaled to some of the short stories that they had no problem with before… That vote had nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with turf. You assholes are celebrating punishing her, and you justify it because you don’t like people like me.
But that’s not the category that is really absurd. Let’s look at Best Editor, Long Form.
Now, a little background on Best Editor, and why there is a Long and Short form. It used to be just Best Editor, only it usually went to short fiction magazine editors. Until Patrick Nielsen Hayden complained one year that he’d edited most of Best Novel nominees (well, that’s a shock) and he didn’t ever get to be Best Editor, so they made a category for him to win every other year (literally).
But there are no cliques or bias!
Editor Toni Weisskopf is a professional’s professional. She has run one of the main sci-fi publishing houses for a decade. She has edited hundreds of books. She has discovered, taught, and nurtured a huge stable of authors, many of whom are extremely popular bestsellers. You will often hear authors complain about their editors and their publishers, but you’re pretty hard pressed to find anyone who has written for her who has anything but glowing praise for Toni.
Yet before Sad Puppies came along, Toni had never received a Hugo nomination. Zero. The above mentioned Patrick Nielsen Hayden has 8. Toni’s problem was that she just didn’t care and she didn’t play the WorldCon politics. Her only concern was making the fans happy. She publishes any author who can do that, regardless of their politics. She’s always felt that the real awards were in the royalty checks. Watching her get ignored was one of the things that spurred me into starting Sad Puppies. If anybody deserved the Hugo, it was her.
This year Toni got a whopping 1,216 first place votes for Best Editor. That isn’t just a record. That is FOUR TIMES higher than the previous record. Shelia Gilbert came in next with an amazing 754. I believe that Toni is such a class act that beforehand she even said she thought Shelia Gilbert deserved to win. Fans love Toni.
Logically you would think that she would be award worthy, since the only Baen books to be nominated for a Hugo prior to Sad Puppies were edited by her (Bujold) and none of those were No Awarded. Last year she had the most first place votes, and came in second only after the weird Australian Rules voting kicked in (don’t worry everybody, they just voted to make the system even more complicated), so she was apparently award worthy last year.
Toni Weisskopf has been part of organized Fandom (capital F) since she was a little kid, so all that bloviating about how Fandom is precious, and sacred, and your special home since the ‘70s which you need to keep as a safe space free of barbarians, blah, blah, blah, yeah, that applies to Toni just as much as it does to you CHORFs. You know how you guys paid back her lifetime of involvement in Fandom?
By giving 2,496 votes to No Award.
So what changed, WorldCon? We both know the answer. It was more important that you send a message to the outsiders than it was to honor someone who was truly deserving, and that message was This is ours, keep out. That’s why I’m disappointed. I wanted the mask to come off and for the world to see how the sausage was really made, but even I was a little surprised by just how vile you are.
Same thing with Editor, short form. Mike Resnick has the wrong politics, but he makes up for it by being a living legend, and a major part of fandom for decades. He’s super involved and has helped launch more careers than anyone can count. When they went through and broke down Hugo winners by politics over the last couple of decades, he was one of the few who was good enough and famous to still win. He should’ve won this year, big time. But nope. Brad Torgersen endorsed him. Send the message. Same category, Jennifer Brozek, have zero idea what she believes about anything, despite working on stuff that was worthy before, No Award, because Larry Correia endorsed due to her quality work on Shattered Shields. Send the message.
Resnick and Weisskopf losing is particularly galling. CHORFs don’t care about tradition. You have no honor. You only care about protecting your turf. You’re inclusive and welcoming, provided the newcomers kiss your ass and don’t get uppity. And old timers? Heaven forbid somebody with badthink endorses them, because then they either have to debase themselves and beg for mercy, or you’ll burn them too. I talked about how this poisonous culture scares many writers into self-censoring before, and you gave them a great example too. Stay in the lines or else.
Oh, and all that bullshit you spew about fighting for diversity? Everyone knows that is a smokescreen. You talk about diversity, but simultaneously had no problem putting No Award over award nominated females because they were nominated by fans you declared to be sexist. Wait… So let me see if I’ve got this straight, you denied deserving women like Toni, Cedar, Kary, Jennifer, Shelia, and Amanda, just to send a message, but we’re the bad guys? I don’t think so. Or as one of our female nominees said, this Puppy has been muzzled. http://cedarwrites.com/this-puppy-has-been-muzzled/
So who really won the Hugos this year? It was 3 to 1 in votes against the two Puppy factions, so they beat us in numbers big time. I’m not going to try to spin that (hell, after the media blitz about how you noble Fans were bravely holding off an invasion of hateful white males hatemongers of hate, I’m surprised that’s all you got) they own Worldcon. At least now they finally admit that. For the Sad Puppies, I don’t know what they’re planning to do next. I’m not in charge. Kate Paulk is. Sarah was supposed to be in charge this year but she fell ill. I wanted to wash my hands of this thing last year and Brad asked me to come back. Over three years the Puppy numbers went from a handful, to hundreds, to over a thousand. The question now is do we want to keep throwing money at a bunch of ungrateful bastards who keep changing the rules to forbid us, or change tactics. Either way, not my call, not my problem. I’m sick of this crap.
No Award is the big winner. Only time will tell, but for FANDOM and the CHORFs I think you’ve got yourself a pyrrhic victory. So many of you don’t seem to realize that this isn’t just about the awards, and culture wars are a spectator sport. WorldCon was shrinking and greying, and now you can rejoice as it goes back to the comfy way you like it. You want to know why? Read this.
“Attending the Hugo Awards from the perspective of a 12 and 14 year old.”
I took my kids to WorldCon to expose them to Fandom and I’ve consciously shielded them from any of the politics of the kerfuffle associated with the literary “sides” that were in play.
When we attended, we had good seats and they were excited to see if some of their choices would make it.
Let’s just say that my boys ended up being exposed to some of their categories being utterly eradicated from eligibility due to this thing that I’d shielded them from.
They couldn’t understand why their short story choice evaporated into something called “NO AWARD.”
As I briefly explained, the audience was cheering because of that decision and the MC made a point of saying that cheering was appropriate and boos were not.
My kids were shocked.
Shocked not by not winning but by having an entire category’s rug being pulled out from under it and then having all the adults (many of which were old enough to be their grandparents) cheering for something my kids looked at as an unfair tragedy.
I’ll admit to having feared this outcome – yet this was my children’s introduction to Fandom.
We are driving home and they are of the opinion that they aren’t particularly interested in this “Fandom” thing.
I find that a great shame – and I blame not the people who established the ballots to vote for (for my kids enjoyed a great deal of what they read on the ballots), but as my kids noted – they blame the ones who made them feel “like the rug was pulled out from under me.”
I’d offered Fandom my boys – my boys now reject them.
And yes, the picture below is just before us walking to the Hugo ceremonies. They’re excited about it all. I just find it a pity that they didn’t feel anything other than bewilderment and bitterness toward the people in the auditorium after the ceremonies.
That’s the future you elitist exclusive snobs want. Sasquan talked about their record numbers, and record attendance, record supporting memberships, record votes (not to mention record money), but then to commemorate it, you gave them an asterisk for violating your secret gentlemen’s agreements, and told them their kind isn’t welcome in Trufandom. Thinking about the asterisk though, didn’t any of you special snowflakes watch Community? None of my people got any awards, so it isn’t our flag that’s an anus. But fly your anus high, WorldCon, because those two kids will probably be published authors themselves, having fun with other Wrongfans at other cons by the time Gerrold finishes the next Chtorr book.
The real winner this year was Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies. Yep. You CHORFing idiots don’t seem to realize that Brad, Sarah, and I were the reasonable ones who spent most of the summer talking Vox out of having his people No Award the whole thing to burn it down, but then you did it for him. He got the best of both worlds. Oh, but now you’re going to say that Three Body Problem won, and that’s a victory for diversity! You poor deluded fools… That was Vox’s pick for best novel. That’s the one most of the Rabid Puppies voted for too.
Here’s something for you crowing imbeciles to think through, the only reason Vox didn’t have Three Body Problem on his nomination slate was that he read it a month too late. If he’d read it sooner, it would have been an RP nomination… AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO AWARDED IT.
And if that doesn’t prove my original point about this fucked up system being more about politics than the quality of the work, I don’t know what will. One of the only two fiction works that actually received an award this year would have been a Rabid Puppy nominee except for timing, and you would’ve No Awarded the winner just to send your little message.
The outrage this summer is all about politics and protecting turf. Look at the nomination numbers. There is a significant correlation between amount of butt hurt and who was supposed to have made it.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2015HugoStatistics.pdf
Other than the Puppy noms, look through all the supporting categories and look how tiny their numbers are. Yeah, the Puppies crushed them and locked them out, but not through malicious slate voting. It doesn’t take a lockstep slate to beat a system that is so pathetic a couple dozen friends can swing it.
The cliques are small and inbred. Don’t believe me, think about who our biggest haters are, and then scroll through the list and see who didn’t get Hugo nominations because my side showed up for once. Check out Fan Writer. Look at the list of who would’ve made it if it hadn’t been for us. Funny. Most of those names look familiar, usually because they’re ranting about sexist/racist hate boogeymen.
Same thing with Best Related Work and the other little categories. No wonder Hines has been on the warpath. We interrupted his destiny. As GRRM said, he’s served his time, damn it! Hell, if we’d not shown up culture warrior Anita Sarkeesian would have been a nominee, and you say that we’re the ones who involved GamerGate? And for all of Empress Theresa’s bloviating about us keeping off the 2nd volume of the Heinlein dialogs, that’s a smoke screen because it wouldn’t have made it anyway. Oh, and there’s Glyer 45 Hugos. No wonder he’s pissed. If it hadn’t been for Puppies his title would be Glyer 46 Hugos. Sheesh. Scroll down that list. Lots of familiar names with pathetically small vote counts that would’ve otherwise made it, but there are no entrenched cliques. Uh huh.
Anyways, I’m glad it’s over. I can’t wait to see what new exciting ways they come up with to slander anyone who disagrees with them next year.
edit: He omitted that Toni Weisskopf is the publisher of Baen Books, who publish a lot of his own work.
pleasepaypreacher.net
He has a particularly type of blind spot that is very common nowadays. He can't imagine his opinion isn't the one most people have. The "Silent Majority" fallacy. The group that massively outvoted his group must be the small insular group. The group that reacted to an organized effort to game the system, especially by bringing in people who were only doing so in order to further political goals, are the ones not playing fair or in the spirit of the awards.
Faced with the reality that people voting for women, or gays or whatever are largely doing so because of the quality of the work and not for some kind of affirmative action like he believes, he can't accept it and invents a conspiracy. Its pathetic.
(The Monster Hunter books are also unreadable)
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
http://thelibertyzone.com/2015/08/24/for-those-of-you-who-follow-the-hugos-and-the-sad-puppies-controversy/
In the past, I have written extensively about the degree to which the Social Justice Left, rather like a schoolyard bully, began its fanatical crusade by targeting art forms and subcultures most often enjoyed by nerds, seeing them as a low status, easy target. If nerds are the “sad puppies,” then the Left saw them as proverbial Chihuahuas. Unfortunately, as the rise of the actual Sad Puppies and the year-long counter-crusade known as #Gamergate shows, these “puppies” are more like abused Dobermans that have been backed into a corner, and who are now mauling their tormentors. The Left’s #WaronNerds was supposed to be a blitzkrieg. It has become an overwhelming rout for those who instigated it.
However, perhaps due to war weariness or simple desire to avoid politics, many members of the gaming or Sci-Fi communities have tried to adopt a “why can’t we all just get along?” approach. They’ve tried to argue that the best solution is for their communities to have room for both social justice warriors and old school nerd traditionalists.
The Hugo Awards have shown us that this is impossible. The Social Justice Left will not be satisfied unless it has complete control over the spaces it infiltrates. If it cannot control a space, it will burn it down and salt the earth. If they could, they would probably torch every script of Shakespeare’s The Taming of the Shrew for being anti-feminist, every score of Mozart’s The Magic Flute for its unflattering depiction of its one mulatto character, every print of Apelles’ Venus Anadyomene for catering to the male gaze, and every other work that portrays, or was written by, someone with objectionable politics. This book burning bonfire of the vacuous would be large enough to be seen from space, if the satellites weren’t taken down for being too phallic.
For the record, this is repellent.
I admit to voting exclusively authors whose politics do not utterly repel me. #HugoAwards https://t.co/PhiaaAWfBT
— Phil Sandifer (@PhilSandifer) August 23, 2015
For the record, I find that actively sabotaging great authors and editors and cheering their loss to a “NO AWARD” vote, because they happen to be exercising WrongThink or are supported by WrongFans is repellent.
For the record, I find that the fact that these bleating, pathetic mediocrities would rather actively facilitate a loss than see someone with whom they do not agree politically win an award, is beyond repellent.
They wield their social justice like a club with which they pummel anyone whom they consider guilty of WrongThink. But it’s not enough to oppose them. They must destroy them. And screw it, if the fans don’t like it! The RightFans will understand why it’s important to destroy any vestige of thought with which they disagree. Screw the rest of them.
And you know what? They’ve succeeded in //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js“>muzzling at least one sensitive, beautiful, feminine voice.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
[…]
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
And while the SJW scum dance about defeating those old, white men of science fiction, what they have defeated is a much more diverse, exciting, brilliant slate of authors and other literary professionals than they could ever possibly imagine! Certainly much more diverse than what actually took home an award this year!
Congrats, SJWs. You’ve certainly alienated this fan. I can promise you that not one more penny of my earnings will go to anything with which that smarmy fuck David Gerrold is involved. Not another penny to Tor publishing, whose employees seem to make regular sport of dragging those with whose politics they disagree (yes, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, you! Yes, Irene Gallo, you!). Not another penny to George R.R. Martin. And by the way, P-rick, you’re lucky John C. Wright’s wife is as kind as she is. I would have punched you in your smarmy fucking face had you gone off on me the way you did after I had approached you with an olive branch.
I told myself I would just point to the original article and be done with it. But apparently, I needed to get this off my chest. I’m repulsed by everything the social justice warriors stand for.
They are attempting to destroy art, literature, journalism, and performance and remake it into what THEY approve of, not what is beautiful, sensual, interesting, or innovative. They treasure the political message over what traditionally has made art and literature great. They attempt to destroy anything with which they don’t agree, anything that offends their tender sensibilities, and anything that’s created by those whom they revile.
They don’t care about art. They care about destroying the artist.
They don’t care about literature. They care about muzzling the author.
Screw them.
Just thought I’d also point you to some wonderful writers and people I consider friends and their takes on what I consider to be a debacle in the sci-fi world.
From Larry Correia, who started this Sad Puppy movement: Sad Puppies 3: Looking at the Results. You all really need to read this one, because you will understand fully and completely just how much fuckery was involved in this year’s Hugo Awards.
From the incredible Sarah A. Hoyt: Burning Down the Field in Order to Save It.
From freelance editor Matthew Bowman: The Hugos, Now With No Mask to Hide Behind.
From author Tom Knighton: My Thoughts on the Hugo Awards and From Me to Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
Author John C. Wright on P-rick’s unprofessional and downright disgusting behavior.
Mike Williamson: No Award.
There are more, and if I find worthy ones, I’ll post them here.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Nope. It's a wonderful red flag in that way.
Guess he didn't look at the number of nominations did he. Best novel got 588 entries. Short Story got 728. The editor categories had 187 and 124 respectively.
Hey Idiot, the reason you managed to get the slate through was because the rest of fandom nominated a huge number of different stories. Since there is a limit to the number of nominations each voter can nominate, the huge number of total nominees shows that the voters nominated the works/people they though should win. If there existed a secret SJW slate, the number of nominees would be way smaller.
Your nomination victory was the result of the rest of fandom not marching in lockstep to a secret cabal of SJW.