He's a former accountant, you see. That's why no-one can question his conclusions about the industry. And boy does he harp on about it every fifth post to cement his authority to be unchallenged.
I point you to this. I haven’t seen a better write-up of SJW scummery or a more rational, logical discussion of why this year’s Hugo awards were an embarrassment and a black mark on science fiction writ large.
In the past, I have written extensively about the degree to which the Social Justice Left, rather like a schoolyard bully, began its fanatical crusade by targeting art forms and subcultures most often enjoyed by nerds, seeing them as a low status, easy target. If nerds are the “sad puppies,” then the Left saw them as proverbial Chihuahuas. Unfortunately, as the rise of the actual Sad Puppies and the year-long counter-crusade known as #Gamergate shows, these “puppies” are more like abused Dobermans that have been backed into a corner, and who are now mauling their tormentors. The Left’s #WaronNerds was supposed to be a blitzkrieg. It has become an overwhelming rout for those who instigated it.
However, perhaps due to war weariness or simple desire to avoid politics, many members of the gaming or Sci-Fi communities have tried to adopt a “why can’t we all just get along?” approach. They’ve tried to argue that the best solution is for their communities to have room for both social justice warriors and old school nerd traditionalists.
The Hugo Awards have shown us that this is impossible. The Social Justice Left will not be satisfied unless it has complete control over the spaces it infiltrates. If it cannot control a space, it will burn it down and salt the earth. If they could, they would probably torch every script of Shakespeare’s The Taming of the Shrew for being anti-feminist, every score of Mozart’s The Magic Flute for its unflattering depiction of its one mulatto character, every print of Apelles’ Venus Anadyomene for catering to the male gaze, and every other work that portrays, or was written by, someone with objectionable politics. This book burning bonfire of the vacuous would be large enough to be seen from space, if the satellites weren’t taken down for being too phallic.
For the record, this is repellent.
I admit to voting exclusively authors whose politics do not utterly repel me. #HugoAwards https://t.co/PhiaaAWfBT
For the record, I find that actively sabotaging great authors and editors and cheering their loss to a “NO AWARD” vote, because they happen to be exercising WrongThink or are supported by WrongFans is repellent.
For the record, I find that the fact that these bleating, pathetic mediocrities would rather actively facilitate a loss than see someone with whom they do not agree politically win an award, is beyond repellent.
They wield their social justice like a club with which they pummel anyone whom they consider guilty of WrongThink. But it’s not enough to oppose them. They must destroy them. And screw it, if the fans don’t like it! The RightFans will understand why it’s important to destroy any vestige of thought with which they disagree. Screw the rest of them.
And you know what? They’ve succeeded in //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js“>muzzling at least one sensitive, beautiful, feminine voice.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
[…]
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
And while the SJW scum dance about defeating those old, white men of science fiction, what they have defeated is a much more diverse, exciting, brilliant slate of authors and other literary professionals than they could ever possibly imagine! Certainly much more diverse than what actually took home an award this year!
Congrats, SJWs. You’ve certainly alienated this fan. I can promise you that not one more penny of my earnings will go to anything with which that smarmy fuck David Gerrold is involved. Not another penny to Tor publishing, whose employees seem to make regular sport of dragging those with whose politics they disagree (yes, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, you! Yes, Irene Gallo, you!). Not another penny to George R.R. Martin. And by the way, P-rick, you’re lucky John C. Wright’s wife is as kind as she is. I would have punched you in your smarmy fucking face had you gone off on me the way you did after I had approached you with an olive branch.
I told myself I would just point to the original article and be done with it. But apparently, I needed to get this off my chest. I’m repulsed by everything the social justice warriors stand for.
They are attempting to destroy art, literature, journalism, and performance and remake it into what THEY approve of, not what is beautiful, sensual, interesting, or innovative. They treasure the political message over what traditionally has made art and literature great. They attempt to destroy anything with which they don’t agree, anything that offends their tender sensibilities, and anything that’s created by those whom they revile.
They don’t care about art. They care about destroying the artist.
They don’t care about literature. They care about muzzling the author.
Screw them.
Just thought I’d also point you to some wonderful writers and people I consider friends and their takes on what I consider to be a debacle in the sci-fi world.
From Larry Correia, who started this Sad Puppy movement: Sad Puppies 3: Looking at the Results. You all really need to read this one, because you will understand fully and completely just how much fuckery was involved in this year’s Hugo Awards.
From the incredible Sarah A. Hoyt: Burning Down the Field in Order to Save It.
From freelance editor Matthew Bowman: The Hugos, Now With No Mask to Hide Behind.
From author Tom Knighton: My Thoughts on the Hugo Awards and From Me to Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
Author John C. Wright on P-rick’s unprofessional and downright disgusting behavior.
Mike Williamson: No Award.
There are more, and if I find worthy ones, I’ll post them here.
The fiasco that was the Hugo Awards last night made a deep impression on me. I’ve never been of the establishment, although I had friends and acquaintances in it. As a fan, I naively thought the Hugo Awards were worth saving.
There was a story on the news not too long ago about a dog who had been cruelly tortured. Her muzzle was bound shut so tightly she would have starved had not some kind person come along and to her rescue. But she will bear the scars on her face for the rest of her life, from the bindings that silenced her. This is what the WorldCon and Hugo establishment would like to do to the Sad Puppies.
Last night was chilling. The cheers from the people who voted as a bloc to shut out the people nominated by fans, because those nominations were from WrongFans. The asterisks. One of the few people in this industry I treasure and respect, walking out of the ceremonies because they were slapping her in the face with the derision.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
No. If we had, those of us who are puppies, there would have been a different outcome. But Organized Fandom took over. I’ve never been so happy to be a part of the great disorganized mass of fans who just like stories. That’s all. We read the material, they boasted that they wouldn’t bother. We voted our hearts, they voted in spite.
This was never about politics for me. It was about getting more fans involved in what called itself the Best of SF and Fantasy. For a price, you could vote, and put in the name of the most deserving works in nominations. I’d watched Scalzi campaign every year, and Locus publish a slate of nominations, and Tor send employees to the cons with ballots clenched in their hands… And it disgusted me, as I got further into the industry and saw what was happening.
But now I see what levels they will stoop to. Last night I saw that despite the claims of people I once thought I knew, the WorldCon itself is implicit in the discrimination and wielding the power to keep things the way it has always been.
Frankly, as a nobody in the field, despite my nomination, I never expected to win. No-one knows who I am, after all.
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
I can’t be involved any longer. If it were just me… but it isn’t. I have others who need me to stay out of the fight, as much as I hate it. If I keep in the frontlines, I will become a casualty, and I have people who are dependent on me, helpless in the world if something becomes of my good name. And so I must turn away, tears in my eyes, and leave the field of battle. I am sickened, but my duty is clear.
I cannot bay. I have been bound into silence. I bow my head, and exit…
The fiasco that was the Hugo Awards last night made a deep impression on me. I’ve never been of the establishment, although I had friends and acquaintances in it. As a fan, I naively thought the Hugo Awards were worth saving.
There was a story on the news not too long ago about a dog who had been cruelly tortured. Her muzzle was bound shut so tightly she would have starved had not some kind person come along and to her rescue. But she will bear the scars on her face for the rest of her life, from the bindings that silenced her. This is what the WorldCon and Hugo establishment would like to do to the Sad Puppies.
Last night was chilling. The cheers from the people who voted as a bloc to shut out the people nominated by fans, because those nominations were from WrongFans. The asterisks. One of the few people in this industry I treasure and respect, walking out of the ceremonies because they were slapping her in the face with the derision.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
No. If we had, those of us who are puppies, there would have been a different outcome. But Organized Fandom took over. I’ve never been so happy to be a part of the great disorganized mass of fans who just like stories. That’s all. We read the material, they boasted that they wouldn’t bother. We voted our hearts, they voted in spite.
This was never about politics for me. It was about getting more fans involved in what called itself the Best of SF and Fantasy. For a price, you could vote, and put in the name of the most deserving works in nominations. I’d watched Scalzi campaign every year, and Locus publish a slate of nominations, and Tor send employees to the cons with ballots clenched in their hands… And it disgusted me, as I got further into the industry and saw what was happening.
But now I see what levels they will stoop to. Last night I saw that despite the claims of people I once thought I knew, the WorldCon itself is implicit in the discrimination and wielding the power to keep things the way it has always been.
Frankly, as a nobody in the field, despite my nomination, I never expected to win. No-one knows who I am, after all.
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
I can’t be involved any longer. If it were just me… but it isn’t. I have others who need me to stay out of the fight, as much as I hate it. If I keep in the frontlines, I will become a casualty, and I have people who are dependent on me, helpless in the world if something becomes of my good name. And so I must turn away, tears in my eyes, and leave the field of battle. I am sickened, but my duty is clear.
I cannot bay. I have been bound into silence. I bow my head, and exit…
For fucks sake. The self-righteousness of this guy.
The fact that fandom thought that people that gamed the system to get on the ballot where inferior to NO-AWARD isn't censorship. Its an honest assessment of their quality.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Its sad that people who organized to put their bullshit on the ballot, get mad when actual fans organized to make sure those people won nothing. Gee its like competing ideas and shit.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I actually kinda like the monster hunter books but he has to realize he is not literary award type writer. He writes pulp and when one is in the right mood pulp if totally fine and he sells well enough to make a living at that. If anything this whole puppy nonsense is more likely to hurt his cause in the long run than it is to help it.
The best part about pulp is that there's a shit ton of it, so when a pulpy mood strikes me it's still super easy to avoid writers like Torgersen and Correia.
And if the puppies where the true representatives of fandom... they wouldn't have lost by thousands of votes.
Like the idea of a small cabal of SWJ or whatever controlling fandom was pretty much rejected by the near unanimous vote against the puppies.
That's the insidiousness of the SJP (Social Justice Paladins! Warriors are for clowns!) they infiltrate people and make the silent majority favor the vocal minority!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
This is how you can tell the "classic sci-fi" stuff is basically dog-whistling
The idea of "Classic Sci-Fi" as a goal strikes me as an oxymoron.
It's like saying "Classic future technology."
Scifi isn't something from the future, it's something in the present that references future tech.
And, yeah, that future tech changes. Someone writing scifi for Astounding in the 30s probably is probably going to have a much different conception of the future than we are. But writers can still take themes and stylistic choices from old stories and adapt them with our new ideas. I don't think the goal itself is an issue, that's all a matter of taste.
The real issue here is the right-wing paranoia, that they take anything not fitting into that classical ideal as as part of a SJW culture war. And, vice versa, if they decide something is SJW (Ancillary pronouns!) then that means it's bad and not classic sci-fi.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
This is how you can tell the "classic sci-fi" stuff is basically dog-whistling
The idea of "Classic Sci-Fi" as a goal strikes me as an oxymoron.
It's like saying "Classic future technology."
Scifi isn't something from the future, it's something in the present that references future tech.
And, yeah, that future tech changes. Someone writing scifi for Astounding in the 30s probably is probably going to have a much different conception of the future than we are. But writers can still take themes and stylistic choices from old stories and adapt them with our new ideas. I don't think the goal itself is an issue, that's all a matter of taste.
The real issue here is the right-wing paranoia, that they take anything not fitting into that classical ideal as as part of a SJW culture war. And, vice versa, if they decide something is SJW (Ancillary pronouns!) then that means it's bad and not classic sci-fi.
It doesn't have anything to do with classical sci-fi because sci-fi has always been where people talk about present day social issues in a futuristic context. As we've said before, the world they want to return to never existed. When they say classical sci-fi, what they mean is, what they think sci-fi should be.
It's never, ever been what they think it should be.
I honestly could not get through either of those two pro-puppy articles. The sheer victimization is rage inducing, not to mention the flat out rejection of reality.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm talking in general, not about the Puppies. I tried making it clear in my last post that they're not making a real delineation between good classic scifi vs evil corrupt SJW scifi.
You can see a clear evolution in the genre. Yes, there have always been people within the genre who use it as a way of highlighting real life issues. HG Wells was around right when the genre started to develop its own separate identity, and he was very oriented on using scifi as a method of social critique.
But look at the overall state of the genre at the time. In the early to mid 20th century, scifi was dominated by pulp. If you were a scifi fan, you'd primarily be reading pulpy adventure stories in space. It wasn't until around the 50s that literary scifi started to become truly established and recognized. Even then, it took a few decades before they started to really take over the genre. You had your Canticle for Leibowitzes and A Case of Consciences, but they were more the exception rather than the rule. Jo Walton likes to talk about how when she was an adolescent, it was very easy to follow and read the entire corpus of "good" scifi; that was a huge component of Among Others, which focused on the state of scifi in the late 70s. Between the 80s and the present day, scifi as literature has been becoming more and more common and--more importantly for this discussion--we see that scifi appreciated. Worldcon and the Hugo Awards were no small part of that.
If you were to talk about fandom as a whole, it is very appropriate to talk about "classic scifi" as the age of pulp, adventure stories, and military nonsense. Again, I think the Puppies are totally abusing that distinction for their own culture war purposes and agree that their dividing line just comes down to their personal feelings. But the state of scifi a century or even 50 years ago is not the same as the state of scifi now.
Even in the old days SF tried to aim form higher status. John W Campbell's main contribution was his deliberate steering of the SF from the cheaper side of the Pulps to the upscale side. That is why he is still remembered positively.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Even in the old days SF tried to aim form higher status. John W Campbell's main contribution was his deliberate steering of the SF from the cheaper side of the Pulps to the upscale side. That is why he is still remembered positively.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
Yes - instead, he sought out stuff like The Cold Equations - a miserable "hard" sci-fi parable that has been routinely demonstrated to be an absolute load of dreck built around being brutal for the sake of brutality. Not to mention the man was a pretty notorious bigot as well.
I think the best counter to to arguments that no award was a political, rather than qualitative decision is the win by Guardians. It was the only puppy nominee that would have made it in regardless, but nobody knew that until I the votes were in. Voters chose it despite it being on the puppy slates, which suggests that there were other factors in the decision to disregard the other skate nominees.
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Cast an eye of suspicion on the sort of person who earnestly uses "social justice warrior" and "political correctness" as pejoratives.
It's a pretty big Venn diagram of the sort of people who do both, and what they are basically saying is "I don't like ideas like treating people with respect or sensitivity, or the kinds of people who fight for equality and justice in society"
Really uh...
Really have a think about what that's saying about a person's character that they're coming down against those things.
Cast an eye of suspicion on the sort of person who earnestly uses "social justice warrior" and "political correctness" as pejoratives.
It's a pretty big Venn diagram of the sort of people who do both, and what they are basically saying is "I don't like ideas like treating people with respect or sensitivity, or the kinds of people who fight for equality and justice in society"
Really uh...
Really have a think about what that's saying about a person's character that they're coming down against those things.
A lot of it also comes from them growing up as the most privileged class thinking everyone was equal. So now when privilege is being called out and other groups in society is being bumped up, or fighting to be bumped up, to equal status the privileged considers themselves under attack and being oppressed.
It is why GG and puppies fit seamlessly together and are promoted and supported by rightwing blogs. They all use the same argument.
Even in the old days SF tried to aim form higher status. John W Campbell's main contribution was his deliberate steering of the SF from the cheaper side of the Pulps to the upscale side. That is why he is still remembered positively.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
Yes - instead, he sought out stuff like The Cold Equations - a miserable "hard" sci-fi parable that has been routinely demonstrated to be an absolute load of dreck built around being brutal for the sake of brutality. Not to mention the man was a pretty notorious bigot as well.
Well yeah, you didn't notice me pointing that out a few pages back?
He was all of these things. He was the guy that wanted a story about a Race based weapon in Heinlein's Sixth Column. He was also the guy that nurtured Asimov into writing the Foundation Trilogy. He published the serialization of Dune in his magazine too.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
And if the puppies where the true representatives of fandom... they wouldn't have lost by thousands of votes.
Like the idea of a small cabal of SWJ or whatever controlling fandom was pretty much rejected by the near unanimous vote against the puppies.
That's the bit that has got to them. They were overwhelmingly rejected and their expectation was just getting nominated would mean they would win. They did not expect or even anticipate this. They were shown up to be the loud angry minority of out of touch reactionaries in the room.
This was not a result they anticipated and as I mentioned before, the relentless crowing of the puppies victory on twitter before the awards was overwhelming. At least until they started.
Even in the old days SF tried to aim form higher status. John W Campbell's main contribution was his deliberate steering of the SF from the cheaper side of the Pulps to the upscale side. That is why he is still remembered positively.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
Yes - instead, he sought out stuff like The Cold Equations - a miserable "hard" sci-fi parable that has been routinely demonstrated to be an absolute load of dreck built around being brutal for the sake of brutality. Not to mention the man was a pretty notorious bigot as well.
Well yeah, you didn't notice me pointing that out a few pages back?
He was all of these things. He was the guy that wanted a story about a Race based weapon in Heinlein's Sixth Column. He was also the guy that nurtured Asimov into writing the Foundation Trilogy. He published the serialization of Dune in his magazine too.
It's almost like people aren't just 1-dimensional caricatures, but actually complex individuals that may not be entirely internally consistent.
I've chatted with some incredibly dickish social justice folk, but the term SJW has become so diluted as to be an utterly meaningless term for anyone left of the author.
I've chatted with some incredibly dickish social justice folk, but the term SJW has become so diluted as to be an utterly meaningless term for anyone left of the author.
There's shitty people in any movement. But the term SJW itself is nothing at this point but a huge marker that you only associate with geese because no one else takes the term seriously.
Cast an eye of suspicion on the sort of person who earnestly uses "social justice warrior" and "political correctness" as pejoratives.
It's a pretty big Venn diagram of the sort of people who do both, and what they are basically saying is "I don't like ideas like treating people with respect or sensitivity, or the kinds of people who fight for equality and justice in society"
Really uh...
Really have a think about what that's saying about a person's character that they're coming down against those things.
A lot of it also comes from them growing up as the most privileged class thinking everyone was equal. So now when privilege is being called out and other groups in society is being bumped up, or fighting to be bumped up, to equal status the privileged considers themselves under attack and being oppressed.
It is why GG and puppies fit seamlessly together and are promoted and supported by rightwing blogs. They all use the same argument.
It is kind of baffling how these people can grow up on Star Trek, Blade Runner, Dune, Foundation, etc. and think that sci-fi shouldn't have social commentary or doesn't need diversity. Do they think that Star Trek is a cautionary tale against a futuristic hellscape created by evil progressives forcing diversity and equality on everyone and that "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" is an ominous warning portending the doom of civilization?
I've chatted with some incredibly dickish social justice folk, but the term SJW has become so diluted as to be an utterly meaningless term for anyone left of the author.
There's shitty people in any movement. But the term SJW itself is nothing at this point but a huge marker that you only associate with geese because no one else takes the term seriously.
I treat the term "SJW" like I treat the term "Political Correctness"
I don't take it seriously to mean anything of merit, it's basically a dog-whistle for "people I don't like who aren't like me", and when someone seriously uses it pejoratively I look askance at them for reasons I already talked about.
Otherwise I don't think about it much. It's used pretty much entirely either in jest, sarcastically, or earnestly by really shitty people. I've seen an incredibly small number of people refer to themselves as SJWs as some kind of ironic way of like, taking it back and as a big fuck you to the shitty people
I don't really pay a lot of attention to that, either
I used it earnestly for a while, until I realized that judging social movements by the members that are the most awful and extreme is exactly what I was chiding them for. And that was hypocrisy, so clearly I was doing something wrong.
So I think I'm going to start writing scifi novels under the pen name "No Award" and then hope that the Sad Puppies thing keeps going for a few more years.
So I think I'm going to start writing scifi novels under the pen name "No Award" and then hope that the Sad Puppies thing keeps going for a few more years.
The Alan Smithee Gambit
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Even in the old days SF tried to aim form higher status. John W Campbell's main contribution was his deliberate steering of the SF from the cheaper side of the Pulps to the upscale side. That is why he is still remembered positively.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
Yes - instead, he sought out stuff like The Cold Equations - a miserable "hard" sci-fi parable that has been routinely demonstrated to be an absolute load of dreck built around being brutal for the sake of brutality. Not to mention the man was a pretty notorious bigot as well.
Not to interrupt your hate-on, but you've got a few things wrong. Like the fact that The Cold Equations ended the way it did because Campbell kept sending it back to Tom Godwin until he gave Campbell the downer ending. There's no reason to shit on Tom Godwin, and IIRC, he got a kick out of fans presenting him with ways the girl still could've been saved.
I used it earnestly for a while, until I realized that judging social movements by the members that are the most awful and extreme is exactly what I was chiding them for. And that was hypocrisy, so clearly I was doing something wrong.
The original usage was vaguely useful, in that it referred to the kind of people who didn't believe that perfect was the enemy of good, and that if you didn't agree with me hard enough, I will tear into as hard as I do those that disagree with me, but it was still one with little probative use. It was when the Gamer Goobers got their mitts on it and spewed it everywhere to mean anyone who disagreed with them that it lost any possible non-ironic value it might've had.
Even before GamerGate the term started to lose any of the meaning it had. Around the time it started getting applied to peeps who didn't shit on trans folk was when I swore off using it.
Posts
Don't go away mad, just go away.
http://cedarwrites.com/this-puppy-has-been-muzzled/
There was a story on the news not too long ago about a dog who had been cruelly tortured. Her muzzle was bound shut so tightly she would have starved had not some kind person come along and to her rescue. But she will bear the scars on her face for the rest of her life, from the bindings that silenced her. This is what the WorldCon and Hugo establishment would like to do to the Sad Puppies.
Last night was chilling. The cheers from the people who voted as a bloc to shut out the people nominated by fans, because those nominations were from WrongFans. The asterisks. One of the few people in this industry I treasure and respect, walking out of the ceremonies because they were slapping her in the face with the derision.
I can never again go to a ‘literary’ con and feel safe. These are the people who have spent months dragging people I know and respect through the mud, and my name with them. Calling me a token woman, and the other women who were on the ballot with me. Because we didn’t fit their narrative. I have no power, they have it all, and they revel in it. They have no qualms about punching down, making sure unwanted fans don’t get their noses into the establishment.
Today, they dance and celebrate, because they won. They won by voting no award as a bloc, while accusing the Sad Puppies of having done so.
No. If we had, those of us who are puppies, there would have been a different outcome. But Organized Fandom took over. I’ve never been so happy to be a part of the great disorganized mass of fans who just like stories. That’s all. We read the material, they boasted that they wouldn’t bother. We voted our hearts, they voted in spite.
This was never about politics for me. It was about getting more fans involved in what called itself the Best of SF and Fantasy. For a price, you could vote, and put in the name of the most deserving works in nominations. I’d watched Scalzi campaign every year, and Locus publish a slate of nominations, and Tor send employees to the cons with ballots clenched in their hands… And it disgusted me, as I got further into the industry and saw what was happening.
But now I see what levels they will stoop to. Last night I saw that despite the claims of people I once thought I knew, the WorldCon itself is implicit in the discrimination and wielding the power to keep things the way it has always been.
Frankly, as a nobody in the field, despite my nomination, I never expected to win. No-one knows who I am, after all.
Now? I’d be afraid to go to WorldCon. They have shown how they feel, and they will treat any threats to their position with… theft, suppression of free speech, mockery, and more. There are people who will never again be able to publish traditionally because of this. And not everyone has the options to be an independent, to have the freedom I so cherish.
I can’t be involved any longer. If it were just me… but it isn’t. I have others who need me to stay out of the fight, as much as I hate it. If I keep in the frontlines, I will become a casualty, and I have people who are dependent on me, helpless in the world if something becomes of my good name. And so I must turn away, tears in my eyes, and leave the field of battle. I am sickened, but my duty is clear.
I cannot bay. I have been bound into silence. I bow my head, and exit…
pleasepaypreacher.net
For fucks sake. The self-righteousness of this guy.
The fact that fandom thought that people that gamed the system to get on the ballot where inferior to NO-AWARD isn't censorship. Its an honest assessment of their quality.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Like the idea of a small cabal of SWJ or whatever controlling fandom was pretty much rejected by the near unanimous vote against the puppies.
The best part about pulp is that there's a shit ton of it, so when a pulpy mood strikes me it's still super easy to avoid writers like Torgersen and Correia.
That's the insidiousness of the SJP (Social Justice Paladins! Warriors are for clowns!) they infiltrate people and make the silent majority favor the vocal minority!
pleasepaypreacher.net
The idea of "Classic Sci-Fi" as a goal strikes me as an oxymoron.
It's like saying "Classic future technology."
And yet people love steam punk...
pleasepaypreacher.net
One of these days, someone might use the abbreviation SJW unironically without being a SFW*, but I'm not holding my breath for it**.
*Stupid Fucking Wankers.
**I like living.
Scifi isn't something from the future, it's something in the present that references future tech.
And, yeah, that future tech changes. Someone writing scifi for Astounding in the 30s probably is probably going to have a much different conception of the future than we are. But writers can still take themes and stylistic choices from old stories and adapt them with our new ideas. I don't think the goal itself is an issue, that's all a matter of taste.
The real issue here is the right-wing paranoia, that they take anything not fitting into that classical ideal as as part of a SJW culture war. And, vice versa, if they decide something is SJW (Ancillary pronouns!) then that means it's bad and not classic sci-fi.
It doesn't have anything to do with classical sci-fi because sci-fi has always been where people talk about present day social issues in a futuristic context. As we've said before, the world they want to return to never existed. When they say classical sci-fi, what they mean is, what they think sci-fi should be.
It's never, ever been what they think it should be.
You can see a clear evolution in the genre. Yes, there have always been people within the genre who use it as a way of highlighting real life issues. HG Wells was around right when the genre started to develop its own separate identity, and he was very oriented on using scifi as a method of social critique.
But look at the overall state of the genre at the time. In the early to mid 20th century, scifi was dominated by pulp. If you were a scifi fan, you'd primarily be reading pulpy adventure stories in space. It wasn't until around the 50s that literary scifi started to become truly established and recognized. Even then, it took a few decades before they started to really take over the genre. You had your Canticle for Leibowitzes and A Case of Consciences, but they were more the exception rather than the rule. Jo Walton likes to talk about how when she was an adolescent, it was very easy to follow and read the entire corpus of "good" scifi; that was a huge component of Among Others, which focused on the state of scifi in the late 70s. Between the 80s and the present day, scifi as literature has been becoming more and more common and--more importantly for this discussion--we see that scifi appreciated. Worldcon and the Hugo Awards were no small part of that.
If you were to talk about fandom as a whole, it is very appropriate to talk about "classic scifi" as the age of pulp, adventure stories, and military nonsense. Again, I think the Puppies are totally abusing that distinction for their own culture war purposes and agree that their dividing line just comes down to their personal feelings. But the state of scifi a century or even 50 years ago is not the same as the state of scifi now.
He ditched those that used pseudo-science to sell genre stories. You tried to sell him a Horatio Hornblower story in space(Honor Harrington), he would throw your story in thrash. A space western with ex-confederate protagonist(Firefly) would be told to get out. He wanted original stories that dealt with science first and foremost. He was harsh, he demanded the best and he paid the best.
(For the record I like both Harrington and Firefly, I just k
I've never understood why "person who fights for justice in their society" became a pejorative.
Mug's game. Smarter to just exploit who you can and look out for you and yours. Is I guess the reasoning?
Because everything in our society is already 100% perfect as is, so those warriors are obviously crying wolf over nothing.
Yes - instead, he sought out stuff like The Cold Equations - a miserable "hard" sci-fi parable that has been routinely demonstrated to be an absolute load of dreck built around being brutal for the sake of brutality. Not to mention the man was a pretty notorious bigot as well.
- John Stuart Mill
It's a pretty big Venn diagram of the sort of people who do both, and what they are basically saying is "I don't like ideas like treating people with respect or sensitivity, or the kinds of people who fight for equality and justice in society"
Really uh...
Really have a think about what that's saying about a person's character that they're coming down against those things.
A lot of it also comes from them growing up as the most privileged class thinking everyone was equal. So now when privilege is being called out and other groups in society is being bumped up, or fighting to be bumped up, to equal status the privileged considers themselves under attack and being oppressed.
It is why GG and puppies fit seamlessly together and are promoted and supported by rightwing blogs. They all use the same argument.
Well yeah, you didn't notice me pointing that out a few pages back?
He was all of these things. He was the guy that wanted a story about a Race based weapon in Heinlein's Sixth Column. He was also the guy that nurtured Asimov into writing the Foundation Trilogy. He published the serialization of Dune in his magazine too.
That's the bit that has got to them. They were overwhelmingly rejected and their expectation was just getting nominated would mean they would win. They did not expect or even anticipate this. They were shown up to be the loud angry minority of out of touch reactionaries in the room.
This was not a result they anticipated and as I mentioned before, the relentless crowing of the puppies victory on twitter before the awards was overwhelming. At least until they started.
It's almost like people aren't just 1-dimensional caricatures, but actually complex individuals that may not be entirely internally consistent.
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There's shitty people in any movement. But the term SJW itself is nothing at this point but a huge marker that you only associate with geese because no one else takes the term seriously.
It is kind of baffling how these people can grow up on Star Trek, Blade Runner, Dune, Foundation, etc. and think that sci-fi shouldn't have social commentary or doesn't need diversity. Do they think that Star Trek is a cautionary tale against a futuristic hellscape created by evil progressives forcing diversity and equality on everyone and that "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" is an ominous warning portending the doom of civilization?
I agree?
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I don't take it seriously to mean anything of merit, it's basically a dog-whistle for "people I don't like who aren't like me", and when someone seriously uses it pejoratively I look askance at them for reasons I already talked about.
Otherwise I don't think about it much. It's used pretty much entirely either in jest, sarcastically, or earnestly by really shitty people. I've seen an incredibly small number of people refer to themselves as SJWs as some kind of ironic way of like, taking it back and as a big fuck you to the shitty people
I don't really pay a lot of attention to that, either
I go "oh ok" and I move on
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The Alan Smithee Gambit
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