Reject doesn't continue the cycle shenanigans, it's pretty clear that the next cycle learns enough from Liara's messages that they are able to handily defeat the Reapers for good when they show up again. That's what makes it so great.
"FUCK! Even after we killed Shepard they are such a pain in the ass!"
I was working a booth at Toronto Fan Expo Thursday through Saturday, and while I don't recall seeing any N7 armoured folks there, the N7 dresses, leggings, dog tags and wallets were on display.
They always got a shout out and fist bump when the opportunity arose.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Reject doesn't continue the cycle shenanigans, it's pretty clear that the next cycle learns enough from Liara's messages that they are able to handily defeat the Reapers for good when they show up again. That's what makes it so great.
Killing all of your cycle and probably most of next doesn't exactly scream great plan to me. in a strictly numbers game Red trumps them all.
Reject doesn't continue the cycle shenanigans, it's pretty clear that the next cycle learns enough from Liara's messages that they are able to handily defeat the Reapers for good when they show up again. That's what makes it so great.
Killing all of your cycle and probably most of next doesn't exactly scream great plan to me. in a strictly numbers game Red trumps them all.
How do you figure?
In Blue, nobody dies. In Green, only Shepard dies.
In Red, all the Geth die. Seems like Red is the second deadliest option of all.
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jefe414"My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter"Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered Userregular
I'm sorry but blue is the best because it yields the same result as red with having to commit Genocide.
WTF are you talking about? I destroyed the reapers saving the galaxy then had a sweet ass party in the Citadel with all my crewmates. The game just showed stuff out of order .
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
This has been my interpretation of it for a while now. Starkid is a Reaper, nothing he says is trustworthy.
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
This has been my interpretation of it for a while now. Starkid is a Reaper, nothing he says is trustworthy.
Yeah, which is why you don't risk leaving them around. Lucky they all blew up as is.
They could do that with the Geth, but we actually saw EDI die, so that would be harder to retcon away.
We don't, actually. Her only mention in the ending is during the extended cut's slides as Hackett is talking about "those we lost", having her name on the memorial wall and appearing alongside Legion (who dies before the ending) and Mordin. They could have it so the Normandy's crash landing damaged her core enough that she was unsalvagable, or whatever. The Geth don't appear in the ending at all. The only beings we see die as a direct result of getting hit by the red energy wave are the reapers and reaper ground troops themselves.
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
This has been my interpretation of it for a while now. Starkid is a Reaper, nothing he says is trustworthy.
I never got this, if you don't believe anything the Starkid said, then why did you still shoot that console he told you would destroy all the reapers. If you don't believe the Starkid, the Reject ending is the only logical choice, all the rest you only have his word for that it does anything at all except for destroying the fluid catalytic cracking unit.
I mean, if you don't believe starkid why did you know up your only weapon against the reapers?
Reverse psychology man, maybe he wanted you to shoot that really important part that incapacitates the mega weapon.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Let's be honest, by the time we reached the original ending of ME3 we were all so appalled by its horrible construction and dialogue that we made a choice based on whichever one seemed least terrible at the time.
I mean, if you don't believe starkid why did you know up your only weapon against the reapers?
Reverse psychology man, maybe he wanted you to shoot that really important part that incapacitates the mega weapon.
Shooting the reapers is the most logical thing to do. Except the Star Kid Reaper was unshootable outside of a symbolic rejection. So plan B: Shoot repear stuff. And hey, look, it worked!
It's too late to fix the problem for past games, but the "solution" to choose-your-story games like these that want to also have continuity is to focus decision-making consequences at a very personal level. Choose which of your friends lives or dies, but not entire races or kingdoms or whatever. Choose how you help someone close to you deal with a difficult problem & the changes they emerge with on the other side of it, not whether you save this big city or that one. These kinds of choices can carry over from game to game just fine; critical recurring characters can be saved from having a choice to kill them, and you don't need deviations for entirely different world orders.
Within the game, those choices are substantially more interesting and rewarding anyway -- the Geth vs Quarian conundrum was made a lot more interesting due to having Tali and Legion on your team. The whole decision could have been reduced to personal conflict between the two of them, where you choose one to side with resulting in the death of the other (or do some extra work to find a way for them to get along / make amends). The series could then have had a standard, canon story about what actually happens to the Geth and Quarian races. The player still has agency, the choices still have consequences, but the larger game plot can move ahead unhindered.
Dragon Age 2 did this in many ways, which is why it remains one of my favorite Bioware experiences, warts and all. You make lots of decisions, and they matter, but in the end things are going to happen that you can't stop. Dragon Age 3 did not need to retcon much from DA2 to continue the story, and Hawke emerges one of the better protagonists for it. You even get reminded of various personal decisions you made thanks to Varric's inclusion and his love of sharing stories.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
This has been my interpretation of it for a while now. Starkid is a Reaper, nothing he says is trustworthy.
I never got this, if you don't believe anything the Starkid said, then why did you still shoot that console he told you would destroy all the reapers. If you don't believe the Starkid, the Reject ending is the only logical choice, all the rest you only have his word for that it does anything at all except for destroying the fluid catalytic cracking unit.
Oh I didn't think it at the time. This is all just my coping mechanism for after the fact.
They could do that with the Geth, but we actually saw EDI die, so that would be harder to retcon away.
We don't, actually. Her only mention in the ending is during the extended cut's slides as Hackett is talking about "those we lost", having her name on the memorial wall and appearing alongside Legion (who dies before the ending) and Mordin. They could have it so the Normandy's crash landing damaged her core enough that she was unsalvagable, or whatever. The Geth don't appear in the ending at all. The only beings we see die as a direct result of getting hit by the red energy wave are the reapers and reaper ground troops themselves.
EDI is partially based on Reaper tech salvaged from Sovereign.
So it makes sense that the Red ending would destroy her, regardless of what happens to the Geth.
They could do that with the Geth, but we actually saw EDI die, so that would be harder to retcon away.
We don't, actually. Her only mention in the ending is during the extended cut's slides as Hackett is talking about "those we lost", having her name on the memorial wall and appearing alongside Legion (who dies before the ending) and Mordin. They could have it so the Normandy's crash landing damaged her core enough that she was unsalvagable, or whatever. The Geth don't appear in the ending at all. The only beings we see die as a direct result of getting hit by the red energy wave are the reapers and reaper ground troops themselves.
EDI is partially based on Reaper tech salvaged from Sovereign.
So it makes sense that the Red ending would destroy her, regardless of what happens to the Geth.
Yes, and also the Geth make sense too since they used Reaper code to enhance their abilities. But the starkid's argument of "all synthetics will be targeted" is just garbage. That would destroy every single electronic device in the entire galaxy.
He even follows that line with "even you are partly synthetic", and we know what happens with high War Assets Red, so... yeah.
Aistan on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
The solution to not making an ending like this is not have two writers go off into a secret giggle huddle and crank out bullshit that they think is great stuff without any oversight or input from any of the other writers.
Seriously, all these arguments boil down to "it needed more time in editing".
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Lots of speculation from everyone!
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
It's been a while since the last ending discussion.
It's been a while since the last ending discussion.
Just like old times.
When do we get someone making a new account, shitposting about how we're terrible people for not liking the ending, and getting banned five minutes later?
I never got this, if you don't believe anything the Starkid said, then why did you still shoot that console he told you would destroy all the reapers. If you don't believe the Starkid, the Reject ending is the only logical choice, all the rest you only have his word for that it does anything at all except for destroying the fluid catalytic cracking unit.
Most of us beat the game back when that wasn't an option, so people's preferences were cemented long before the EC. Afterward, everyone already knew that things more or less worked out as advertised, e.g. Destroy. You can't easily erase metaknowledge.
I like reject because, without knowing the results, it makes sense given the totally insane set of actions offered to you, but it arrived a little too late to earn much in the way of adherents.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited September 2015
I stopped playing ME3. I like it better that way. I don't want to turn into you guys. I mean, I love yas. But you guys are obsessed. It's painful to watch.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
It's been a while since the last ending discussion.
Just like old times.
When do we get someone making a new account, shitposting about how we're terrible people for not liking the ending, and getting banned five minutes later?
It's been a while since the last ending discussion.
Just like old times.
When do we get someone making a new account, shitposting about how we're terrible people for not liking the ending, and getting banned five minutes later?
Can... can I pipe in about how I liked the ending(s)? I promise not to shitpost.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
ME3 still turned out to be my game of the year because for all its dumb shit it had some astounding, genuinely emotional moments that could only come about from an interconnected BioWare trilogy spanning the course of several years
Plus the multiplayer turned out to be fucking cash
I stopped playing ME3. I like it better that way. I don't want to turn into you guys. I mean, I love yas. But you guys are obsessed. It's painful to watch.
Nooooo. :sad: Mass Effect 3 is gravy, all the way up to literally the last five minutes. You should totally play up to the grand finale. Unless you already got that far and quit, which is a reasonable life choice.
ME3 is pretty easily my favorite of the series. 2 had higher highs and 3 had lower lows, but overall the average was higher with 3. It was just so much goddamn fun to play.
ME3 is pretty easily my favorite of the series. 2 had higher highs and 3 had lower lows, but overall the average was higher with 3. It was just so much goddamn fun to play.
But "unknowable horror from outer space" is 100% impossible to resolve satisfactorily.
So even though the idea is neat, it's best to stay away from it in writing. The only way to do it successfully is to make stories that don't really end they just kind of stop, like H. P. Lovecraft, but in a vidya game that's so unsatisfying it will probably put your studio out of business.
You can do it, but you have to be willing to make the concession to Lovecraft's ethos: humanity is insignificant. We are not special, and the same processes that have burned-out billions or perhaps even trillions of stars & worlds before our own will consume us too.
Freespace was already mentioned - it played to this tune in spectacular fashion and is well loved because of it (also the storytelling & pacing of the game were just a cut above the rest).
I think the hologram kid was trying to evoke this spirit when talking about 'the cycle', but it was via a ham fisted exposition sequence rather than an interactive tapestry that involved both the player & protagonist on a personal level. That's just poor writing.
Would have been better if Starkid was instead a holographic projection of the crewmember that died on Virmire. Marginally. Or at least someone Shepard was supposed to care about.
Would have been better if Starkid was instead a holographic projection of the crewmember that died on Virmire. Marginally. Or at least someone Shepard was supposed to care about.
What are you talking about? Shepard totally cared about that random kid he met once, he had weird ass dreams about him all game. That means he's important and you should care.
Posts
And my head canon is way different from anything that actually happened in ME3.
I was working a booth at Toronto Fan Expo Thursday through Saturday, and while I don't recall seeing any N7 armoured folks there, the N7 dresses, leggings, dog tags and wallets were on display.
They always got a shout out and fist bump when the opportunity arose.
Killing all of your cycle and probably most of next doesn't exactly scream great plan to me. in a strictly numbers game Red trumps them all.
How do you figure?
In Blue, nobody dies. In Green, only Shepard dies.
In Red, all the Geth die. Seems like Red is the second deadliest option of all.
WTF are you talking about? I destroyed the reapers saving the galaxy then had a sweet ass party in the Citadel with all my crewmates. The game just showed stuff out of order .
Bioware just needs to make the Red ending canon, and also make it canon that Starchild lied about the whole Geth dying thing. I don't think anyone would mind that.
This has been my interpretation of it for a while now. Starkid is a Reaper, nothing he says is trustworthy.
Yeah, which is why you don't risk leaving them around. Lucky they all blew up as is.
We don't, actually. Her only mention in the ending is during the extended cut's slides as Hackett is talking about "those we lost", having her name on the memorial wall and appearing alongside Legion (who dies before the ending) and Mordin. They could have it so the Normandy's crash landing damaged her core enough that she was unsalvagable, or whatever. The Geth don't appear in the ending at all. The only beings we see die as a direct result of getting hit by the red energy wave are the reapers and reaper ground troops themselves.
I never got this, if you don't believe anything the Starkid said, then why did you still shoot that console he told you would destroy all the reapers. If you don't believe the Starkid, the Reject ending is the only logical choice, all the rest you only have his word for that it does anything at all except for destroying the fluid catalytic cracking unit.
Reverse psychology man, maybe he wanted you to shoot that really important part that incapacitates the mega weapon.
Shooting the reapers is the most logical thing to do. Except the Star Kid Reaper was unshootable outside of a symbolic rejection. So plan B: Shoot repear stuff. And hey, look, it worked!
Within the game, those choices are substantially more interesting and rewarding anyway -- the Geth vs Quarian conundrum was made a lot more interesting due to having Tali and Legion on your team. The whole decision could have been reduced to personal conflict between the two of them, where you choose one to side with resulting in the death of the other (or do some extra work to find a way for them to get along / make amends). The series could then have had a standard, canon story about what actually happens to the Geth and Quarian races. The player still has agency, the choices still have consequences, but the larger game plot can move ahead unhindered.
Dragon Age 2 did this in many ways, which is why it remains one of my favorite Bioware experiences, warts and all. You make lots of decisions, and they matter, but in the end things are going to happen that you can't stop. Dragon Age 3 did not need to retcon much from DA2 to continue the story, and Hawke emerges one of the better protagonists for it. You even get reminded of various personal decisions you made thanks to Varric's inclusion and his love of sharing stories.
Oh I didn't think it at the time. This is all just my coping mechanism for after the fact.
EDI is partially based on Reaper tech salvaged from Sovereign.
So it makes sense that the Red ending would destroy her, regardless of what happens to the Geth.
Yes, and also the Geth make sense too since they used Reaper code to enhance their abilities. But the starkid's argument of "all synthetics will be targeted" is just garbage. That would destroy every single electronic device in the entire galaxy.
He even follows that line with "even you are partly synthetic", and we know what happens with high War Assets Red, so... yeah.
Seriously, all these arguments boil down to "it needed more time in editing".
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Just like old times.
Most of us beat the game back when that wasn't an option, so people's preferences were cemented long before the EC. Afterward, everyone already knew that things more or less worked out as advertised, e.g. Destroy. You can't easily erase metaknowledge.
I like reject because, without knowing the results, it makes sense given the totally insane set of actions offered to you, but it arrived a little too late to earn much in the way of adherents.
That was a very special time for us all.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
More like consensus is impossible, so we'll do our own thing and hope it's good enough.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
But given that they had to bring Martin Sheen back in fairly late in the game...it might explain things.
Plus the multiplayer turned out to be fucking cash
Nooooo. :sad: Mass Effect 3 is gravy, all the way up to literally the last five minutes. You should totally play up to the grand finale. Unless you already got that far and quit, which is a reasonable life choice.
Someone else might've gotten it wrong
You can do it, but you have to be willing to make the concession to Lovecraft's ethos: humanity is insignificant. We are not special, and the same processes that have burned-out billions or perhaps even trillions of stars & worlds before our own will consume us too.
Freespace was already mentioned - it played to this tune in spectacular fashion and is well loved because of it (also the storytelling & pacing of the game were just a cut above the rest).
I think the hologram kid was trying to evoke this spirit when talking about 'the cycle', but it was via a ham fisted exposition sequence rather than an interactive tapestry that involved both the player & protagonist on a personal level. That's just poor writing.
What are you talking about? Shepard totally cared about that random kid he met once, he had weird ass dreams about him all game. That means he's important and you should care.
That just brings up a whole new set of questions!