I used the word "basically" because it pulls the scope of my comparison to the essentials... the general idea... shock and awe extreme was a timed contest where the floors would damage/kill to you if you took too long to finish. The fight in question is also a timed contest where the floor will damage/kill you if you took too long to finish. But basically they are the same; win fast or floor will kill you.
Which brings us to "cranked to 9", which I used to denote that the intensity was ramped up greatly. The floor electrification is not random, but is constantly progressing; it always starts on the right tile from the first rack of bots, and loops around the perimeter until all the tiles are electrified. You get like a minute and a half maybe to clear the room. The lasers were added because it would have been pretty simple otherwise.
As for the whip attacks, I used the trip one. Since I focused on remaining in the center and it knocks them down it limited her rubberbanding into the hazards. I also jumped over heads to keep the combo up to set up the lash, and landed critical strikes and dodge over counters since I felt her counter animations took too long. When I got down to the last few guys I started using quicklash to pull people toward me. I started using counters at that point because there was no room to do anything else w/o going into the danger zone. It worked for me, so IDK what to tell you.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
0
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
The lasers are semi random. They randomly pick which way to go after reaching a junction in the floor.
(edit: removed this bit cos its petty and I should know better)
I don't particularly consider game design to be about "being able to beat it if you are perfect". Most fights in Batman in the main story do not require perfection. This is a fight that requires high level challenge room style strategising. I can do this. I've beaten every combat challenge in every game by miles and miles. I am no stranger to this. This room doesn't even count as hard to me because I don't care if I die many times.
No what I don't like about the room is its asynchronicity with the rest of the combat design in the rest of the game. It's the only story based combat fight that is this hard and the reasons why you fail are due to the unpredictability and imprecision of the targeting system and the combat animations. The combat engine itself is unpredictable. Given that they made the game, they are aware of this, which is why environmental obstacles like this were tried in AA and then abandoned in the next game because they realised it doesn't fit properly.
The combat environments in in the rest of Arkham Knight complement the combat engine. A wide space. The environment doesn't hurt you. Shit the environment can even HELP you now, you can use the environment against your enemies. It is your friend. It is part of your strategy. It complements the combat by giving it more options, since environmental takedowns ignore special takedown restrictions. It gives you more control.
You can overcome unpredictability and imprecision in the combat engine by minimising it as much as possible, but that is not the same as it being a good idea to include elements in a fight that are in opposition to the imprecision and unpredictability of combat engine. The room is cheap. Being able to beat something cheap does not make it not cheap. Cheap isn't dependent on victory. It's dependent on fairness. Fairness is also not dependent on victory! It's dependent on how much player control matters. The way to judge how much player control matters is not beating it once, it's beating it consistently. It's also not dependent on a single player. A wide range of people need to be able to beat it consistently. The strategy for beating it consistently needs to be in sync with the available strategies for beating the rest of the game consistently. If the game has a large number of strategies for beating regular combat and most fights allow freedom to choose your path, all fights need to follow this design or they are inconsistent by definition.
It doesn't help that people keep defending it by saying "I just did this"
Guess what, I also have a strategy I beat the room with. This does not change my opinion cos merely beating it is irrelevant here. My problem isn't that the room is unbeatable! It is beatable! My problem is that the design of the room doesn't fit into the freedom based combat because its incredibly restrictive. It's this restriction that makes it hard. All the strategies you are free to choose in the rest of the game, many of them lead to a bad end here because of the unpredictability and imprecision of the combat. You have to progress by trial and error until you stumble across the few that actually work. The environment doesn't complement the combat, it subtracts from it. It doesn't give you options, it takes them away.
If they want to make a fight hard you don't do it by fucking with player control and you don't do it by doing a 180 on the rest of the combat, and you especially don't expect people to pay extra for a fight that fucks with both.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
The lasers are semi random. They randomly pick which way to go after reaching a junction in the floor.
(edit: removed this bit cos its petty and I should know better)
I don't particularly consider game design to be about "being able to beat it if you are perfect". Most fights in Batman in the main story do not require perfection. This is a fight that requires high level challenge room style strategising. I can do this. I've beaten every combat challenge in every game by miles and miles. I am no stranger to this. This room doesn't even count as hard to me because I don't care if I die many times.
No what I don't like about the room is its asynchronicity with the rest of the combat design in the rest of the game. It's the only story based combat fight that is this hard and the reasons why you fail are due to the unpredictability and imprecision of the targeting system and the combat animations. The combat engine itself is unpredictable. Given that they made the game, they are aware of this, which is why environmental obstacles like this were tried in AA and then abandoned in the next game because they realised it doesn't fit properly.
The combat environments in in the rest of Arkham Knight complement the combat engine. A wide space. The environment doesn't hurt you. Shit the environment can even HELP you now, you can use the environment against your enemies. It is your friend. It is part of your strategy. It complements the combat by giving it more options, since environmental takedowns ignore special takedown restrictions. It gives you more control.
You can overcome unpredictability and imprecision in the combat engine by minimising it as much as possible, but that is not the same as it being a good idea to include elements in a fight that are in opposition to the imprecision and unpredictability of combat engine. The room is cheap. Being able to beat something cheap does not make it not cheap. Cheap isn't dependent on victory. It's dependent on fairness. Fairness is also not dependent on victory! It's dependent on how much player control matters. The way to judge how much player control matters is not beating it once, it's beating it consistently. It's also not dependent on a single player. A wide range of people need to be able to beat it consistently. The strategy for beating it consistently needs to be in sync with the available strategies for beating the rest of the game consistently. If the game has a large number of strategies for beating regular combat and most fights allow freedom to choose your path, all fights need to follow this design or they are inconsistent by definition.
It doesn't help that people keep defending it by saying "I just did this"
Guess what, I also have a strategy I beat the room with. This does not change my opinion cos merely beating it is irrelevant here. My problem isn't that the room is unbeatable! It is beatable! My problem is that the design of the room doesn't fit into the freedom based combat because its incredibly restrictive. It's this restriction that makes it hard. All the strategies you are free to choose in the rest of the game, many of them lead to a bad end here because of the unpredictability and imprecision of the combat. You have to progress by trial and error until you stumble across the few that actually work. The environment doesn't complement the combat, it subtracts from it. It doesn't give you options, it takes them away.
If they want to make a fight hard you don't do it by fucking with player control and you don't do it by doing a 180 on the rest of the combat, and you especially don't expect people to pay extra for a fight that fucks with both.
Where in my post do I say the lasers* were not random?
The first two paragraphs of my previous post were meant to clarify what I said previously, because you made the following response regarding my post:
Shock and awe extreme was just a timing thing. The floors had a set sequence and happened at a set time. You were never really trapped unless you weren't paying attention, and it didn't have random elements to it. It's not really a good comparison.
Why did I say that? Because it's the same concept only ramped up to be more challenging. How? The threat of the timed environment killing you gradually increases across the duration of timer in lieu of all at once, when said timer expires. The lasers are an additional roving threat. The end.
The last paragraph in my previous post is in response to this response:
This got me killed every single time. I have no idea how you managed to do it because they did NOT do enough damage. It was the first thing I thought of and it was really frustrating that it didn't freaking work. I was so confident it would work I tried it at least four times.
I explained how I made it work.
Fun fact: the strategy that I used there is valid strategy that can be applied elsewhere in the game too. Stating "I did this" is not a statement made in defense of a mechanic/encounter... you are trying to shoehorn an argument into this that only you are interested in having. I don't really have the energy or the interest to bother with the rest of your post.
edit:*If the lasers do follow a set pattern, I wasn't able to discern it, so it's reasonable for me to conclude that they are random. The floor electrification followed an observable pattern that I also saw in other people's gameplay videos that I checked to confirm my statement with other people's gameplay before posting it.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
In other news, I completed all the races to knock those achievements out. Now I just need to get 21 stars worth of combat challenges in and I will have officially completed this game.
I do not feel like doing these AR challenges over and over and over again though.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
0
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
The lasers are semi random. They randomly pick which way to go after reaching a junction in the floor.
(edit: removed this bit cos its petty and I should know better)
I don't particularly consider game design to be about "being able to beat it if you are perfect". Most fights in Batman in the main story do not require perfection. This is a fight that requires high level challenge room style strategising. I can do this. I've beaten every combat challenge in every game by miles and miles. I am no stranger to this. This room doesn't even count as hard to me because I don't care if I die many times.
No what I don't like about the room is its asynchronicity with the rest of the combat design in the rest of the game. It's the only story based combat fight that is this hard and the reasons why you fail are due to the unpredictability and imprecision of the targeting system and the combat animations. The combat engine itself is unpredictable. Given that they made the game, they are aware of this, which is why environmental obstacles like this were tried in AA and then abandoned in the next game because they realised it doesn't fit properly.
The combat environments in in the rest of Arkham Knight complement the combat engine. A wide space. The environment doesn't hurt you. Shit the environment can even HELP you now, you can use the environment against your enemies. It is your friend. It is part of your strategy. It complements the combat by giving it more options, since environmental takedowns ignore special takedown restrictions. It gives you more control.
You can overcome unpredictability and imprecision in the combat engine by minimising it as much as possible, but that is not the same as it being a good idea to include elements in a fight that are in opposition to the imprecision and unpredictability of combat engine. The room is cheap. Being able to beat something cheap does not make it not cheap. Cheap isn't dependent on victory. It's dependent on fairness. Fairness is also not dependent on victory! It's dependent on how much player control matters. The way to judge how much player control matters is not beating it once, it's beating it consistently. It's also not dependent on a single player. A wide range of people need to be able to beat it consistently. The strategy for beating it consistently needs to be in sync with the available strategies for beating the rest of the game consistently. If the game has a large number of strategies for beating regular combat and most fights allow freedom to choose your path, all fights need to follow this design or they are inconsistent by definition.
It doesn't help that people keep defending it by saying "I just did this"
Guess what, I also have a strategy I beat the room with. This does not change my opinion cos merely beating it is irrelevant here. My problem isn't that the room is unbeatable! It is beatable! My problem is that the design of the room doesn't fit into the freedom based combat because its incredibly restrictive. It's this restriction that makes it hard. All the strategies you are free to choose in the rest of the game, many of them lead to a bad end here because of the unpredictability and imprecision of the combat. You have to progress by trial and error until you stumble across the few that actually work. The environment doesn't complement the combat, it subtracts from it. It doesn't give you options, it takes them away.
If they want to make a fight hard you don't do it by fucking with player control and you don't do it by doing a 180 on the rest of the combat, and you especially don't expect people to pay extra for a fight that fucks with both.
Where in my post do I say the lasers* were not random?
The first two paragraphs of my previous post were meant to clarify what I said previously, because you made the following response regarding my post:
Shock and awe extreme was just a timing thing. The floors had a set sequence and happened at a set time. You were never really trapped unless you weren't paying attention, and it didn't have random elements to it. It's not really a good comparison.
Why did I say that? Because it's the same concept only ramped up to be more challenging. How? The threat of the timed environment killing you gradually increases across the duration of timer in lieu of all at once, when said timer expires. The lasers are an additional roving threat. The end.
The last paragraph in my previous post is in response to this response:
This got me killed every single time. I have no idea how you managed to do it because they did NOT do enough damage. It was the first thing I thought of and it was really frustrating that it didn't freaking work. I was so confident it would work I tried it at least four times.
I explained how I made it work.
Fun fact: the strategy that I used there is valid strategy that can be applied elsewhere in the game too. Stating "I did this" is not a statement made in defense of a mechanic/encounter... you are trying to shoehorn an argument into this that only you are interested in having. I don't really have the energy or the interest to bother with the rest of your post.
edit:*If the lasers do follow a set pattern, I wasn't able to discern it, so it's reasonable for me to conclude that they are random. The floor electrification followed an observable pattern that I also saw in other people's gameplay videos that I checked to confirm my statement with other people's gameplay before posting it.
Alright, fair enough. That's my bad. I misread you. Sorry.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Redirect is just jumping over dudes, right? Because that is what I was trying in the 20 dude fight in Ace Chemicals and I still got my ass handed to me.
In other news, I completed all the races to knock those achievements out. Now I just need to get 21 stars worth of combat challenges in and I will have officially completed this game.
I do not feel like doing these AR challenges over and over and over again though.
There are certain ones that are easier than others. It still takes a while, but I just picked easiest ones, and only reset if I got 1 star, if I got 2 i just left it and moved onto the next challenge
Redirect is just jumping over dudes, right? Because that is what I was trying in the 20 dude fight in Ace Chemicals and I still got my ass handed to me.
Its tough at first to adjust but not impossible, Id say give it a few more goes and theres some viable strategies youll find to mitigate the lack of counters.
Prohass on
0
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Redirect is just jumping over dudes, right? Because that is what I was trying in the 20 dude fight in Ace Chemicals and I still got my ass handed to me.
Is that the one with all the environmental stuff? Those are based on Batman's proximity to the object, not a thugs. So redirect until you are next to each one and trigger it on someone.
If you glide straight down, let go of glide so you drop quickly, land right next to someone, and then instantly press fear takedown you should be able to start one and take out a bunch. Then you want to throw a batarang and immediately do a multi takedown to take out three more. If you have max fear takedown you should be able to take out at least 8. 9 if you get lucky and start with a double takedown.
Combine that with the environmental takedowns, you should be able to take out three quarters of the room with little risk.
Also, don't just redirect once and then hit someone then try to go into your normal flow. Redirect into a clear area, punch once, redirect, punch once. Only hit multiple people when you have space and enemies aren't too close to you.
Also use the disruptor on the medics first.
If its a different fight let me know which fight it is and what enemies are in there. I'll tell you the cheap and easy way to deal with each type of enemy.
In fact, fuck it, I'll jsut tell you.
Gigantic brutes: if one, freeze grenade him. If two, freeze one and repeatedly rec gun the other to stun him until you build up a takedown. I basically rec them whenever they are too close to me. Once you have a takedown, pick one and do the batclaw takedown. While you can usually take them out with a normal takedown, the batclaw takedown will instantly KO any brute, even the armored ones with shields and knifes etc.
For dudes with stun batons, rec them. It'll send them flying if you don't have the upgrade and make them drop it. If you do have the upgrade, it'll ko them.
For guns, throw a batarang at them if you don't have a takedown available. If you do, redirect over to them and break their gun with disarm and destroy.
For shields, you have multiple choices. You can rec gun to temporarily disable them, freeze them then hit or redirect over them to knock the shield out of their hand, disarm and destroy, cape stun then redirect, or hit them with a bat.
Also if you see anyone with a bat steal it by doing cape stun then pressing environmental takedown. You'll rip it out of their hands. Redirect around and smack brutes, shields and stun guys with the bat. Brutes go down in three critical hits from a bat.
For medics, disrupt them as a priority if you can before the fight starts, if not, take them out asap. They are a priority.
When you are picking up a bat, move away from the bat and then go to grab it. The animation where Batman picks it up from his feet is a lot longer and has a much longer recovery. The animation when triggered far away has him roll and grab the bat basically instantly.
If a thug has a box, redirect over him or throw a batarang, rec gun etc at him, then immediately hit environmental take down to steal his box and throw it, which will break it and get it out of your hair.
Beatdowns can't be dodged by katana users. Katana users will only dodge once in a row. You can actually follow them with a second strike to guaranteed hit them before they can do their counter attack. You can redirect over them at any time (even when they're in mid air doing an attack) and they're less likely to dodge if you attack them from behind. If there are only katana dudes left, redirect then striking from behind is a reasonably safe way to take them out, but they will occasionally still dodge so watch it. It's just rarer.
Batarang to multi can take them out if you are very quick with pressing the multi (press it as soon as you throw the batarang). They hit the ground in the dizzy state for a split second and you can ko them during that split second.
When there are lots of regular thugs, use batarang then multi. It's more efficient.
At the start of the fight, throw every environmental obstacle on the ground to get rid of them all. Just keep hitting environmental takedown in the direction of every box and explosive barrel etc. Less things to worry about. If you are quick you can get rid of most of them before they thugs manage to pick them up and they count for your combo. If there's enough of them you can actually build up to a combo, then batarang and take out a bunch of dudes right at the start.
If you have the batarang damage upgrade explosive batarangs do great damage and can ko densely packed groups of thugs pretty well.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
If you're really having trouble with that fight, it's possible to just drop down and use the door controls before they notice you.
If you roll in with the Batmobile, they all run and hide in the side room. You can ignore them completely, or you can get out and wait for them to come out and attack. They'll still run and hide if you get in it, but it might make it easier if you've got the Batmobile takedowns available as well.
I beat the fight. Definitely have to get used to the thugs attacking faster. I have no idea what I'm going to do when I start getting legitimately hard enemies. Thanks for all the tips!
In other news, I completed all the races to knock those achievements out. Now I just need to get 21 stars worth of combat challenges in and I will have officially completed this game.
I do not feel like doing these AR challenges over and over and over again though.
There are certain ones that are easier than others. It still takes a while, but I just picked easiest ones, and only reset if I got 1 star, if I got 2 i just left it and moved onto the next challenge
They attack faster on Knightmare? Seemed like they attacked at the same rate to me.
I think your strategy may be better than what I had originally planned on doing, which was just getting 3 stars on the combat maps 7 times. Your way has a lot more variety to it, so maybe it won't be as much of a slog.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
The biggest thing you can do to make a lot of fights easier is to set up fear takedowns before hand. Even in areas where you don't have rafters, you can usually still use the line launcher to set up above enemies. Failing that, you might even be able to glide down and initiate a FEAR takedown if they don't see you coming. With the 5x FEAR upgrade, you can KO 5 people to start (6 if you start with a double takedown), then critical attack a sixth (or 7th) thug to knock him to the floor, follow up with a triple batarang to knock down three more and finish with the multi-takedown batarang attack, since your combo meter will have been filled after finishing the FEAR attacks. If you do everything right, you can remove 10 (or 11) thugs from the fight before any enemies are ready to think about hitting you. Even if you can't set up the follow-up multi-takedown right, you can use your charged combo to takedown a brute or another high-value enemy (armed thug or whatever).
There are also a lot of subtle cues that let you know a thug is about to attack. NG+ gets much easier when you're able to read them effectively. Thugs will shuffle around constantly during a fight, but they usually will take a few steps towards you before they attack. Part of this is because Batman is usually moving around during a fight. You literally have to be standing right next a thug and not move at all for them to hold their ground and attack. You can try it out on street level thugs. Just land next to one and wait to see how long it takes them to punch you. So if you see a thug who's a few steps away suddenly start to close in, you're probably going to want to counter shortly. Likewise, if you see two or three do it at the same time, be ready to tap that counter button several times.
Of course, you don't need to do any of that for most situations since you can just rely on the redirect. Although I think you have a slightly larger window to counter than to redirect. I might be wrong on that.
Thugs also have a pretty big tell when doing the charge attack where they tackle you. They'll typically be backing up when getting ready to do one, then they scream, run i place for a second, and then run towards you. You can actually KO them with a batarang during most of this process. I've KO'd from before they even start running to after I've dodged over them and they're standing still recovering.
Slortex on
0
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
You can safely buffer the redirect after another move and if you do it is equally as fast as the counter.
You should basically be using it as "what do I do now?" filler even if you DO like to use counters.
The other advantage of redirect is that Bats will automatically target and toss away a charging thug, so redirecting liberally means you rarely have to deal with them. Soon as they even think about doing anything Bats throws them to the other side of the room. It's pretty amusing.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Hi Everyone,
The latest patch for Batman: Arkham Knight was released today and contains the following updates:
Fixed some issues with stars being awarded or lost incorrectly in specific AR Challenges
Improved target prioritization during combat
Restored heavier rain during the opening section of the game
Fixed missing rain effects on a few remaining player character skins
Miscellaneous gameplay fixes and stability improvements
Fixes to some keyboard and mouse prompts after being rebound
Made frame times more consistent for 60hz monitors running at 30fps with VSync enabled
Previously equipped gadgets can be selected with keyboard and mouse again after restarting an AR Challenge
Fixed the default key binding for Harley’s Snare gadget
Batgirl’s Remote Hacking Device can now be properly selected with keyboard & mouse in AR Challenges
Minor performance optimizations for certain combinations of hardware
Fixed keyboard & mouse controls that did not function in DLC AR Challenges when no previous save data existed
Quick Photo Mode can now be triggered with keyboard and mouse controls when using the Batmobile
Special Combo Takedowns can now be performed with Quickfire Gadget binds if they were rebound
Fixed graphical corruption that may occur after Alt-Tabbing
Improvements and corrections to some localized text
Added new Classic Harley Quinn skin for use in AR Challenges & the Harley Quinn Story Pack
Added Arkham Knight as a playable character for AR Challenges & the Red Hood Story Pack
Added support for December DLC content
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
That frame time thing is the shit.
Frame time is much more important than FPS. It's frame time, not FPS, that makes a game feel laggy. Low FPS makes it look laggy visually, but if the underlying frame times are consistent, it wont feel laggy.
And vice versa, quite often a lack of responsiveness in a game is due to frame time inconsistencies even when running a solid 60fps.
And target prioritization! Yes!
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Fingers crossed that Seasons of Infamy isn't yet another smattering of sub-hour-long micro-adventures.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. If you took away the searching around for them parts, that's exactly what the sub villain stuff was in the base game. If you put each individual bit of every villains mission back to back with zero freeroam searching many of them would be under an hour.
The only exceptions were the Arkham Knight and the Riddler.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Well season of Infamy is out. Reports on Neogaf are that it's like, an hour or an hour and a half worth of content. Which, for 10 bucks, doesn't actually sound so terrible?
Someone here should play it and report back if it's worth playing, because 10 bucks for an hour of solid content is something I'd be willing to pay for
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
I'm busy all day and then probably tomorrow and then its christmas, I aint gonna be able to even touch it till the weekend probably, and I have bloodborne then.
Basically, could someone else with the season pass have a go? Cos if I have to I could try to squeeze it in tomorrow if its really only an hour so you guys know. I'd rather not if I don't have to.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
The last of the Arkham Knight DLC dropped yesterday. The main content is four additional side quests added to the base game, collectively called Season of Infamy, with Mad Hatter, Killer Croc, Mr. Freeze, and Ra's al Ghul.
There were some people asking in the G&T thread for impressions whether it was any good, and I am here to provide. I'm not a season pass holder, but I picked up Season of Infamy and I enjoyed it a lot. The only other DLC that I played was A Matter of Family, which I also enjoyed. This seemed about that length, maybe a little longer. I tend to take my time and digest these things, so I clocked in at just less than three hours - this includes talking to NPCs multiple times to hear all their dialogue, restarting combat encounters because I am the goddamn Batman and that thug didn't hit me, and such. There's even a follow the trail mission, and I like to avoid using detective mode in those and see if I can actually spot the trail. So I'm definitely on the extreme end as far as time, but I think you should be looking at an hour and a half to two hours if you're not rushing through things.
As for the content itself, I thought it was pretty strong. There's some new environments that are pretty well done, including a new wing of GCPD where your new enemies will take up residence, along with some additional officers and other characters. Gameplay is typical Arkham fare, pushing you across the city into combat/predator encounters, and into the new locations. There's also a boss fight similar to The Goliath fight at Panessa Studios, a couple of ally segments, and one tank battle. Overall, the storylines are the highlight. With the exception of Mad Hatter, I thought they were all pretty well written, and give the sort of closure that's found elsewhere in Arkham Knight. There's even a moral choice that is suitably Batman-esque. The villains do reference an end game story event, so I'm not sure how the DLC would play out before the end, particularly in regards to one character that is no longer in the story after the end game.
Overall, worth the $10, I think. Not perfect, but pretty good.
I've noticed a weird bug. If you're using a controller, Batgirl and Harley in challenge rooms have regular critical strikes that work just like Batman's. However, if you are using mouse and keyboard they just do regular strikes and you get an extra point of multiplier while the combo meter is charged. Only the very last attack (when it goes into slo-mo) will work properly and can be a critical strike.
I've noticed a weird bug. If you're using a controller, Batgirl and Harley in challenge rooms have regular critical strikes that work just like Batman's. However, if you are using mouse and keyboard they just do regular strikes and you get an extra point of multiplier while the combo meter is charged. Only the very last attack (when it goes into slo-mo) will work properly and can be a critical strike.
Probably a good idea to bug report that on their forums.
Or not, actually, since that bug is in your favor. They're not supposed to have critical strikes at all.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
man this was a really great way to end the season pass, too bad the rest of it was so lackluster.
0
Options
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2015
Looking back, taken all together, there is a lot of content.
And they also listened to player feedback and built in character select to both combat and predator rooms. And changed the rooms they were designing, so that now we have round based rooms.
That probably wouldn't have happened without the planned long term season pass development.
As a result we have a better game at the end.
And in total, you have, adding it all up, around ten hours of combined character based dlc and dozens of hours of challenge room content. Since every story based dlc added that character to challenge rooms.
I dunno, I got my moneys worth. But then again, I got the pass on special. And I really like challenge and predator rooms. :P
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I may or may not have thrown a couple things and flexed the profanity muscles during it myself. I read a bunch of strategies for it, but what worked best for me was to make sure you use the auto-takedown as soon as the combo count turns yellow. It seems like the animations take forever sometimes, and you still have to count on a little luck so you don't drag them into the electrified squares, since Selina apparently doesn't notice herself being electrocuted to death while she's busy mashing robots.
Finished the main quest and went and looked up the 100% ending.
Glad I didn't actually do it, cliffhanger endings suck. Or unexplained. Or whatever that was. Really like the way they did Joker, though. Batman made some stupid calls, but the various Joker conversations made up for it.
Posts
Which brings us to "cranked to 9", which I used to denote that the intensity was ramped up greatly. The floor electrification is not random, but is constantly progressing; it always starts on the right tile from the first rack of bots, and loops around the perimeter until all the tiles are electrified. You get like a minute and a half maybe to clear the room. The lasers were added because it would have been pretty simple otherwise.
As for the whip attacks, I used the trip one. Since I focused on remaining in the center and it knocks them down it limited her rubberbanding into the hazards. I also jumped over heads to keep the combo up to set up the lash, and landed critical strikes and dodge over counters since I felt her counter animations took too long. When I got down to the last few guys I started using quicklash to pull people toward me. I started using counters at that point because there was no room to do anything else w/o going into the danger zone. It worked for me, so IDK what to tell you.
(edit: removed this bit cos its petty and I should know better)
I don't particularly consider game design to be about "being able to beat it if you are perfect". Most fights in Batman in the main story do not require perfection. This is a fight that requires high level challenge room style strategising. I can do this. I've beaten every combat challenge in every game by miles and miles. I am no stranger to this. This room doesn't even count as hard to me because I don't care if I die many times.
No what I don't like about the room is its asynchronicity with the rest of the combat design in the rest of the game. It's the only story based combat fight that is this hard and the reasons why you fail are due to the unpredictability and imprecision of the targeting system and the combat animations. The combat engine itself is unpredictable. Given that they made the game, they are aware of this, which is why environmental obstacles like this were tried in AA and then abandoned in the next game because they realised it doesn't fit properly.
The combat environments in in the rest of Arkham Knight complement the combat engine. A wide space. The environment doesn't hurt you. Shit the environment can even HELP you now, you can use the environment against your enemies. It is your friend. It is part of your strategy. It complements the combat by giving it more options, since environmental takedowns ignore special takedown restrictions. It gives you more control.
You can overcome unpredictability and imprecision in the combat engine by minimising it as much as possible, but that is not the same as it being a good idea to include elements in a fight that are in opposition to the imprecision and unpredictability of combat engine. The room is cheap. Being able to beat something cheap does not make it not cheap. Cheap isn't dependent on victory. It's dependent on fairness. Fairness is also not dependent on victory! It's dependent on how much player control matters. The way to judge how much player control matters is not beating it once, it's beating it consistently. It's also not dependent on a single player. A wide range of people need to be able to beat it consistently. The strategy for beating it consistently needs to be in sync with the available strategies for beating the rest of the game consistently. If the game has a large number of strategies for beating regular combat and most fights allow freedom to choose your path, all fights need to follow this design or they are inconsistent by definition.
It doesn't help that people keep defending it by saying "I just did this"
Guess what, I also have a strategy I beat the room with. This does not change my opinion cos merely beating it is irrelevant here. My problem isn't that the room is unbeatable! It is beatable! My problem is that the design of the room doesn't fit into the freedom based combat because its incredibly restrictive. It's this restriction that makes it hard. All the strategies you are free to choose in the rest of the game, many of them lead to a bad end here because of the unpredictability and imprecision of the combat. You have to progress by trial and error until you stumble across the few that actually work. The environment doesn't complement the combat, it subtracts from it. It doesn't give you options, it takes them away.
If they want to make a fight hard you don't do it by fucking with player control and you don't do it by doing a 180 on the rest of the combat, and you especially don't expect people to pay extra for a fight that fucks with both.
Where in my post do I say the lasers* were not random?
The first two paragraphs of my previous post were meant to clarify what I said previously, because you made the following response regarding my post:
Why did I say that? Because it's the same concept only ramped up to be more challenging. How? The threat of the timed environment killing you gradually increases across the duration of timer in lieu of all at once, when said timer expires. The lasers are an additional roving threat. The end.
The last paragraph in my previous post is in response to this response:
I explained how I made it work.
Fun fact: the strategy that I used there is valid strategy that can be applied elsewhere in the game too. Stating "I did this" is not a statement made in defense of a mechanic/encounter... you are trying to shoehorn an argument into this that only you are interested in having. I don't really have the energy or the interest to bother with the rest of your post.
edit:*If the lasers do follow a set pattern, I wasn't able to discern it, so it's reasonable for me to conclude that they are random. The floor electrification followed an observable pattern that I also saw in other people's gameplay videos that I checked to confirm my statement with other people's gameplay before posting it.
I do not feel like doing these AR challenges over and over and over again though.
Alright, fair enough. That's my bad. I misread you. Sorry.
Switch to using redirect and you'll be fine though.
I wish I could turn them off and set it to Knightmare the first time through.
There are certain ones that are easier than others. It still takes a while, but I just picked easiest ones, and only reset if I got 1 star, if I got 2 i just left it and moved onto the next challenge
Its tough at first to adjust but not impossible, Id say give it a few more goes and theres some viable strategies youll find to mitigate the lack of counters.
Is that the one with all the environmental stuff? Those are based on Batman's proximity to the object, not a thugs. So redirect until you are next to each one and trigger it on someone.
If you glide straight down, let go of glide so you drop quickly, land right next to someone, and then instantly press fear takedown you should be able to start one and take out a bunch. Then you want to throw a batarang and immediately do a multi takedown to take out three more. If you have max fear takedown you should be able to take out at least 8. 9 if you get lucky and start with a double takedown.
Combine that with the environmental takedowns, you should be able to take out three quarters of the room with little risk.
Also, don't just redirect once and then hit someone then try to go into your normal flow. Redirect into a clear area, punch once, redirect, punch once. Only hit multiple people when you have space and enemies aren't too close to you.
Also use the disruptor on the medics first.
If its a different fight let me know which fight it is and what enemies are in there. I'll tell you the cheap and easy way to deal with each type of enemy.
In fact, fuck it, I'll jsut tell you.
Gigantic brutes: if one, freeze grenade him. If two, freeze one and repeatedly rec gun the other to stun him until you build up a takedown. I basically rec them whenever they are too close to me. Once you have a takedown, pick one and do the batclaw takedown. While you can usually take them out with a normal takedown, the batclaw takedown will instantly KO any brute, even the armored ones with shields and knifes etc.
For dudes with stun batons, rec them. It'll send them flying if you don't have the upgrade and make them drop it. If you do have the upgrade, it'll ko them.
For guns, throw a batarang at them if you don't have a takedown available. If you do, redirect over to them and break their gun with disarm and destroy.
For shields, you have multiple choices. You can rec gun to temporarily disable them, freeze them then hit or redirect over them to knock the shield out of their hand, disarm and destroy, cape stun then redirect, or hit them with a bat.
Also if you see anyone with a bat steal it by doing cape stun then pressing environmental takedown. You'll rip it out of their hands. Redirect around and smack brutes, shields and stun guys with the bat. Brutes go down in three critical hits from a bat.
For medics, disrupt them as a priority if you can before the fight starts, if not, take them out asap. They are a priority.
When you are picking up a bat, move away from the bat and then go to grab it. The animation where Batman picks it up from his feet is a lot longer and has a much longer recovery. The animation when triggered far away has him roll and grab the bat basically instantly.
If a thug has a box, redirect over him or throw a batarang, rec gun etc at him, then immediately hit environmental take down to steal his box and throw it, which will break it and get it out of your hair.
Beatdowns can't be dodged by katana users. Katana users will only dodge once in a row. You can actually follow them with a second strike to guaranteed hit them before they can do their counter attack. You can redirect over them at any time (even when they're in mid air doing an attack) and they're less likely to dodge if you attack them from behind. If there are only katana dudes left, redirect then striking from behind is a reasonably safe way to take them out, but they will occasionally still dodge so watch it. It's just rarer.
Batarang to multi can take them out if you are very quick with pressing the multi (press it as soon as you throw the batarang). They hit the ground in the dizzy state for a split second and you can ko them during that split second.
When there are lots of regular thugs, use batarang then multi. It's more efficient.
At the start of the fight, throw every environmental obstacle on the ground to get rid of them all. Just keep hitting environmental takedown in the direction of every box and explosive barrel etc. Less things to worry about. If you are quick you can get rid of most of them before they thugs manage to pick them up and they count for your combo. If there's enough of them you can actually build up to a combo, then batarang and take out a bunch of dudes right at the start.
If you have the batarang damage upgrade explosive batarangs do great damage and can ko densely packed groups of thugs pretty well.
If you roll in with the Batmobile, they all run and hide in the side room. You can ignore them completely, or you can get out and wait for them to come out and attack. They'll still run and hide if you get in it, but it might make it easier if you've got the Batmobile takedowns available as well.
They attack faster on Knightmare? Seemed like they attacked at the same rate to me.
I think your strategy may be better than what I had originally planned on doing, which was just getting 3 stars on the combat maps 7 times. Your way has a lot more variety to it, so maybe it won't be as much of a slog.
There are also a lot of subtle cues that let you know a thug is about to attack. NG+ gets much easier when you're able to read them effectively. Thugs will shuffle around constantly during a fight, but they usually will take a few steps towards you before they attack. Part of this is because Batman is usually moving around during a fight. You literally have to be standing right next a thug and not move at all for them to hold their ground and attack. You can try it out on street level thugs. Just land next to one and wait to see how long it takes them to punch you. So if you see a thug who's a few steps away suddenly start to close in, you're probably going to want to counter shortly. Likewise, if you see two or three do it at the same time, be ready to tap that counter button several times.
Of course, you don't need to do any of that for most situations since you can just rely on the redirect. Although I think you have a slightly larger window to counter than to redirect. I might be wrong on that.
Thugs also have a pretty big tell when doing the charge attack where they tackle you. They'll typically be backing up when getting ready to do one, then they scream, run i place for a second, and then run towards you. You can actually KO them with a batarang during most of this process. I've KO'd from before they even start running to after I've dodged over them and they're standing still recovering.
You should basically be using it as "what do I do now?" filler even if you DO like to use counters.
The other advantage of redirect is that Bats will automatically target and toss away a charging thug, so redirecting liberally means you rarely have to deal with them. Soon as they even think about doing anything Bats throws them to the other side of the room. It's pretty amusing.
second one after they said no more patches
Steam ID: Good Life
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Frame time is much more important than FPS. It's frame time, not FPS, that makes a game feel laggy. Low FPS makes it look laggy visually, but if the underlying frame times are consistent, it wont feel laggy.
And vice versa, quite often a lack of responsiveness in a game is due to frame time inconsistencies even when running a solid 60fps.
And target prioritization! Yes!
I'd contribute that to the holiday?
Krampus approves! :P
I wouldn't get your hopes up. If you took away the searching around for them parts, that's exactly what the sub villain stuff was in the base game. If you put each individual bit of every villains mission back to back with zero freeroam searching many of them would be under an hour.
The only exceptions were the Arkham Knight and the Riddler.
Someone here should play it and report back if it's worth playing, because 10 bucks for an hour of solid content is something I'd be willing to pay for
Basically, could someone else with the season pass have a go? Cos if I have to I could try to squeeze it in tomorrow if its really only an hour so you guys know. I'd rather not if I don't have to.
The last of the Arkham Knight DLC dropped yesterday. The main content is four additional side quests added to the base game, collectively called Season of Infamy, with Mad Hatter, Killer Croc, Mr. Freeze, and Ra's al Ghul.
There were some people asking in the G&T thread for impressions whether it was any good, and I am here to provide. I'm not a season pass holder, but I picked up Season of Infamy and I enjoyed it a lot. The only other DLC that I played was A Matter of Family, which I also enjoyed. This seemed about that length, maybe a little longer. I tend to take my time and digest these things, so I clocked in at just less than three hours - this includes talking to NPCs multiple times to hear all their dialogue, restarting combat encounters because I am the goddamn Batman and that thug didn't hit me, and such. There's even a follow the trail mission, and I like to avoid using detective mode in those and see if I can actually spot the trail. So I'm definitely on the extreme end as far as time, but I think you should be looking at an hour and a half to two hours if you're not rushing through things.
As for the content itself, I thought it was pretty strong. There's some new environments that are pretty well done, including a new wing of GCPD where your new enemies will take up residence, along with some additional officers and other characters. Gameplay is typical Arkham fare, pushing you across the city into combat/predator encounters, and into the new locations. There's also a boss fight similar to The Goliath fight at Panessa Studios, a couple of ally segments, and one tank battle. Overall, the storylines are the highlight. With the exception of Mad Hatter, I thought they were all pretty well written, and give the sort of closure that's found elsewhere in Arkham Knight. There's even a moral choice that is suitably Batman-esque. The villains do reference an end game story event, so I'm not sure how the DLC would play out before the end, particularly in regards to one character that is no longer in the story after the end game.
Overall, worth the $10, I think. Not perfect, but pretty good.
Probably a good idea to bug report that on their forums.
Or not, actually, since that bug is in your favor. They're not supposed to have critical strikes at all.
And they also listened to player feedback and built in character select to both combat and predator rooms. And changed the rooms they were designing, so that now we have round based rooms.
That probably wouldn't have happened without the planned long term season pass development.
As a result we have a better game at the end.
And in total, you have, adding it all up, around ten hours of combined character based dlc and dozens of hours of challenge room content. Since every story based dlc added that character to challenge rooms.
I dunno, I got my moneys worth. But then again, I got the pass on special. And I really like challenge and predator rooms. :P
Steam ID: Good Life