They were literally shot by white supremacists. How is "racism is over" not dead yet.
Who are you quoting?
I was commenting on the state of racial relations in the United States and how this incident of terrorism relates to that.
But if you're asking me for an example, Ben Carson very recently said that he says no evidence of racial bias in the US, and it's an extremely common conservative talking point, so I'm sure if you do some quick googling you'll find many more instances of the sentiment being expressed!
Please stop erasing the experience of a black man who got into medicine in the seventies cis het white guy. But no, a tiny, tiny minority of people have ever argued this. That racial relations are better which is invariably the sentiment is quite different to the strawman you're attacking. It's just obnoxious, this is the equivalent of people who pull out random crazies who ban yoga classes because it's cultural appropriation, and railing againt them as thought any meaningful number of people on the left agree.
Do we know for sure that's what happened? I've heard two stories. One of them being that the white guys came to film the protest, got attacked, and defended themselves. Then the cops came in and maced everyone non-white. The other one is the one posted here. Either way: what the fuck cops?
Most black people in America think racism is alive and well. So I'm disinclined to give one outlier's statement equal weight to what seems to be an overwhelming majority of black American experience. Especially somebody as batshit crazy as Carson.
When over half of white people polled say racial profiling is nonexistent and only 20% of black people do, there is a clear tendency by white people to want to pretend that racism is a thing of the past. In fact, when Obama was elected, "Racism is over" and "We now live in a post-racial society" statements were ubiquitous. And I'm not just talking about the Internet, I'm talking about on the lips of everyday people. Half of America thought Ferguson was not racially motivated.
It's a serious problem.
Something like Half of white people didn't think racism was an issue in the 60s so you have a reference as to what that number means.
Search for asian white supremist and other suspects continues.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited November 2015
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
I mean, the law does recognize (in an extremely narrow and limited context) "fighting words". But I'm pretty sure the moment you're clearly trying to provoke a fight you lose any claim of self defense.
I mean, the law does recognize (in an extremely narrow and limited context) "fighting words". But I'm pretty sure the moment you're clearly trying to provoke a fight you lose any claim of self defense.
You don't lose claim of self defense, you just get punished too.
Only physical assault or higher nullifies self defense
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The supreme court ruled that Westboro Baptist Church protests do not qualify as fighting words. So it'd be hard to see how this would be worse than those nutters. As such, you can't assault even people as hateful as these and if you do they may defend themselves.
The supreme court ruled that Westboro Baptist Church protests do not qualify as fighting words. So it'd be hard to see how this would be worse than those nutters. As such, you can't assault even people as hateful as these and if you do they may defend themselves.
The SCOTUS ruling though hinged I think on them not directly talking to specific people (like, if someone asks them to leave and gets a really vulgar response...). It's not bulletproof.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
The BLM protesters. The police were refusing to do anything. Except for pepper-spraying the people who tried to run into the station to get away from the gunfire.
I mean, BLM was protesting these cops for a reason after all.
So a bunch of white supremacists show up and are asked nicely to leave and they do so? I'm finding your assumed series of events here to be really not like anything I've seen ever between two such opposed groups of people.
So a bunch of white supremacists show up and are asked nicely to leave and they do so? I'm finding your assumed series of events here to be really not like anything I've seen ever between two such opposed groups of people.
It may just be the way you're wording it.
"escorted" is the word the media and such keep using, not "asked nicely". Though they were asked nicely first. It seems more like a bunch of people told them to GTFO and made sure they did and then as they were leaving they turned back around and opened fire.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
+3
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
+1
Options
Caulk Bite 6One of the multitude of Dans infesting this placeRegistered Userregular
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
That's not to say there isn't anti-blm media because there is plenty but I ignore that crap as well.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
That's not to say there isn't anti-blm media because there is plenty but I ignore that crap as well.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
You're arguing about media bias like people will not wholly bias themselves or their personal accounts, or even make up stories from whole cloth.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
As a white dude, I totally didn't know that racism was a thing until I got into high school and started frequenting message boards online where people posted about social issues.
Because if it's not happening to you, it is so easy to just assume that a problem doesn't exist.
I thought that I lived in an area free from racism when I was growing up
Then there were proposals to build a centre for asylum seekers on an old naval base nearby
Turns out that it's pretty easy to not be seen as racist when you live in an overwhelmingly white area
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
+1
Options
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
No, but there is the danger that you seek out and consume media that supports your view. We are all guilty of that at times. We all have a blind spot. You accuse others of that while dismissing the possibility that you are biased too. You are not a paragon of high mind neutrality just as I am not. Just look at the video you chose to support your argument.
Muddypaws on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
No, but there is the danger that you seek out and consume media that supports your view. We are all guilty of that at times. We all have a blind spot. You accuse others of that while dismissing the possibility that you are biased too. You are not a paragon of high mind neutrality just as I am not. Just look at the video you chose to support your argument.
I specifically always try to get both sides of a story. I generally don't have "views" on situations like this until after I get all the facts I can. I have specifically spent time making sure I don't get caught up in bullshit spin by the media because it literally pisses me off to no end. Sometimes it happens, yes, and I always try to rectify it. But I can honestly say that I mostly do no seek out media that supports my view. I mostly seek out media/facts from all sides before I even make a view of it.
But that's not what even is happening here. It's not a matter of supporting an argument or my "view" of the situation. I'm asking for evidence of what happened that is different from the literal only recorded eye witness account I can find besides some random unknown unverified poster on another forum. I found it odd that Shryke painted this completely different picture than the one told in the one piece of evidence I've seen. I have no reason to believe those guys are lying. They seem to be protestors themselves so I'm not sure why anyone would think they would lie?
One of the people charged was in the initial 4chan video. The guy they arrested and let go was apparently the other man in the video, but was determined not to have been at the protest. I wonder if he rolled on his buddy to get out trouble?
And shockingly one of the guys arrested supports the confederacy, shocked I'm sure you all are.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
That's not to say there isn't anti-blm media because there is plenty but I ignore that crap as well.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
You're arguing about media bias like people will not wholly bias themselves or their personal accounts, or even make up stories from whole cloth.
Agreed. Although with the internet and social media it is not surprising people don't trust the media like they used to.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
No, but there is the danger that you seek out and consume media that supports your view. We are all guilty of that at times. We all have a blind spot. You accuse others of that while dismissing the possibility that you are biased too. You are not a paragon of high mind neutrality just as I am not. Just look at the video you chose to support your argument.
I specifically always try to get both sides of a story. I generally don't have "views" on situations like this until after I get all the facts I can. I have specifically spent time making sure I don't get caught up in bullshit spin by the media because it literally pisses me off to no end. Sometimes it happens, yes, and I always try to rectify it. But I can honestly say that I mostly do no seek out media that supports my view. I mostly seek out media/facts from all sides before I even make a view of it.
But that's not what even is happening here. It's not a matter of supporting an argument or my "view" of the situation. I'm asking for evidence of what happened that is different from the literal only recorded eye witness account I can find besides some random unknown unverified poster on another forum. I found it odd that Shryke painted this completely different picture than the one told in the one piece of evidence I've seen. I have no reason to believe those guys are lying. They seem to be protestors themselves so I'm not sure why anyone would think they would lie?
I don't think we are really going to know much until the police have had a chance to investigate. People frequently make snap judgments in the moment that turn out to be wrong.
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
That's not to say there isn't anti-blm media because there is plenty but I ignore that crap as well.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
You're arguing about media bias like people will not wholly bias themselves or their personal accounts, or even make up stories from whole cloth.
Agreed. Although with the internet and social media it is not surprising people don't trust the media like they used to.
So the series of events according to the protesters is this:
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
No, but there is the danger that you seek out and consume media that supports your view. We are all guilty of that at times. We all have a blind spot. You accuse others of that while dismissing the possibility that you are biased too. You are not a paragon of high mind neutrality just as I am not. Just look at the video you chose to support your argument.
I specifically always try to get both sides of a story. I generally don't have "views" on situations like this until after I get all the facts I can. I have specifically spent time making sure I don't get caught up in bullshit spin by the media because it literally pisses me off to no end. Sometimes it happens, yes, and I always try to rectify it. But I can honestly say that I mostly do no seek out media that supports my view. I mostly seek out media/facts from all sides before I even make a view of it.
But that's not what even is happening here. It's not a matter of supporting an argument or my "view" of the situation. I'm asking for evidence of what happened that is different from the literal only recorded eye witness account I can find besides some random unknown unverified poster on another forum. I found it odd that Shryke painted this completely different picture than the one told in the one piece of evidence I've seen. I have no reason to believe those guys are lying. They seem to be protestors themselves so I'm not sure why anyone would think they would lie?
I don't think we are really going to know much until the police have had a chance to investigate. People frequently make snap judgments in the moment that turn out to be wrong.
Will this be the same police who thinks the proper response to white guys shooting at black people is to mace the black people? I agree with your point, but I have absolutely no faith in the police conducting a proper investigation.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I think dumb is a really soft way of describing Nazis going looking for trouble. What I think what happened was those shit heels went looking for trouble, pissed off the protesters. Protesters ran them off and the Nazi pricks used it as an excuse to open fire.
Now, the protesters don't have any right to chase off assholes, but I ain't gonna shed any tears if the Nazi's all go to jail.
That's just going off what we know so far, mostly coming from the only eyewitness video released, the press release from the BLM spokespeople, and the Nazi's posting their hate videos ahead of time.
One of the people charged was in the initial 4chan video. The guy they arrested and let go was apparently the other man in the video, but was determined not to have been at the protest. I wonder if he rolled on his buddy to get out trouble?
And shockingly one of the guys arrested supports the confederacy, shocked I'm sure you all are.
Lotta southern pride down there in Minnesota.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The word is "hick". Got plenty of 'em up here in Oregon - I grew up with several, down in the area where the ... god, this hurts to type... shooting a few shootings back happened.
An anti-Muslim group that brought guns to an Irving mosque has published the home addresses of dozens of Muslims and “Muslim sympathizer(s)” in the city.
“THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF EVERY MUSLIM AND MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER THAT STOOD UP FOR SHARIA SHARIA TRIBUNALS IN IRVING TX. LISTED BELOW,” wrote David Wright III, who organized Saturday’s armed protested outside the Irving Islamic Center.
Below that Facebook message, Wright posted a city document with the name and address of every resident and speaker who opposed a City Council vote earlier this year, when false rumors that Irving’s mosque harbored a Shariah court led city leaders to back a state bill aimed at blocking Muslim influence.
An anti-Muslim group that brought guns to an Irving mosque has published the home addresses of dozens of Muslims and “Muslim sympathizer(s)” in the city.
“THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF EVERY MUSLIM AND MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER THAT STOOD UP FOR SHARIA SHARIA TRIBUNALS IN IRVING TX. LISTED BELOW,” wrote David Wright III, who organized Saturday’s armed protested outside the Irving Islamic Center.
Below that Facebook message, Wright posted a city document with the name and address of every resident and speaker who opposed a City Council vote earlier this year, when false rumors that Irving’s mosque harbored a Shariah court led city leaders to back a state bill aimed at blocking Muslim influence.
I mean all they are doing is labeling people as being muslim and printing out their addresses. I mean its like a Christian news letter only done against their will with the intent to cause them harm. So like a Mormon news letter...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think dumb is a really soft way of describing Nazis going looking for trouble. What I think what happened was those shit heels went looking for trouble, pissed off the protesters. Protesters ran them off and the Nazi pricks used it as an excuse to open fire.
Now, the protesters don't have any right to chase off assholes, but I ain't gonna shed any tears if the Nazi's all go to jail.
That's just going off what we know so far, mostly coming from the only eyewitness video released, the press release from the BLM spokespeople, and the Nazi's posting their hate videos ahead of time.
It's amazing that 4chan has gone from Project Chanology in 2008, to armed Stasserites trying to disrupt protests on the streets of Chicago in just seven years.
An anti-Muslim group that brought guns to an Irving mosque has published the home addresses of dozens of Muslims and “Muslim sympathizer(s)” in the city.
“THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF EVERY MUSLIM AND MUSLIM SYMPATHIZER THAT STOOD UP FOR SHARIA SHARIA TRIBUNALS IN IRVING TX. LISTED BELOW,” wrote David Wright III, who organized Saturday’s armed protested outside the Irving Islamic Center.
Below that Facebook message, Wright posted a city document with the name and address of every resident and speaker who opposed a City Council vote earlier this year, when false rumors that Irving’s mosque harbored a Shariah court led city leaders to back a state bill aimed at blocking Muslim influence.
I mean all they are doing is labeling people as being muslim and printing out their addresses. I mean its like a Christian news letter only done against their will with the intent to cause them harm. So like a Mormon news letter...
Yeah, this went so well when the National Socialist German Worker's Party did it to the Jewish people.
Edited because it's probably more important as a reminder that it wasn't a nation as a whole but a (relatively) small group of radicals.
Dedwrekka on
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
I think dumb is a really soft way of describing Nazis going looking for trouble. What I think what happened was those shit heels went looking for trouble, pissed off the protesters. Protesters ran them off and the Nazi pricks used it as an excuse to open fire.
Now, the protesters don't have any right to chase off assholes, but I ain't gonna shed any tears if the Nazi's all go to jail.
That's just going off what we know so far, mostly coming from the only eyewitness video released, the press release from the BLM spokespeople, and the Nazi's posting their hate videos ahead of time.
It's amazing that 4chan has gone from Project Chanology in 2008, to armed Stasserites trying to disrupt protests on the streets of Chicago in just seven years.
4chan isn't a monolithic entity. Replace "4chan" in your statement with "the internet" and see how it reads.
They were literally shot by white supremacists. How is "racism is over" not dead yet.
Who are you quoting?
I was commenting on the state of racial relations in the United States and how this incident of terrorism relates to that.
But if you're asking me for an example, Ben Carson very recently said that he says no evidence of racial bias in the US, and it's an extremely common conservative talking point, so I'm sure if you do some quick googling you'll find many more instances of the sentiment being expressed!
Please stop erasing the experience of a black man who got into medicine in the seventies cis het white guy. But no, a tiny, tiny minority of people have ever argued this. That racial relations are better which is invariably the sentiment is quite different to the strawman you're attacking. It's just obnoxious, this is the equivalent of people who pull out random crazies who ban yoga classes because it's cultural appropriation, and railing againt them as thought any meaningful number of people on the left agree.
What is your fucking problem? You don't even live in America and yet you feel this overwhelming need to comment on racial and gun issues in the shittiest possible way when you don't even have full context.
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Something like Half of white people didn't think racism was an issue in the 60s so you have a reference as to what that number means.
One of the suspects for BLM shooting released (unclear if they mean bailed here?).
Search for asian white supremist and other suspects continues.
1) People show up in masks filming the event
2) Everyone tells them to take off their masks and they say no
3) Part of the crowd punches the masked men
4) Someone says one of the masked men are reaching for a gun
5) The crowd continues to physically assault them
6) The masked men run away and part of the crowd follows, continuing to physically assault them
7) Their are gunshots from the masked people off site, in what sounds like is self defense at this point
It sounds like everyone involved was stupid and this is a really idiotic series of events.
But
Where is the "White Supremacist" information even coming from? I haven't read a single fact about how people know they are white supremacists. It seems like a dangerous snap judgement. Especially considering that everyone assumed it was "white supremacists" that were burning down churches until they found out it was actually a black man.
edit: NVM, just saw the 4chan video. These guys are clearly scum and white supremacists. Super annoyed that the protesters got suckered into reacting to them violently, but the blame lies mostly on those assholes looking for a fight.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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PSN: AbEntropy
You don't lose claim of self defense, you just get punished too.
Only physical assault or higher nullifies self defense
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
The SCOTUS ruling though hinged I think on them not directly talking to specific people (like, if someone asks them to leave and gets a really vulgar response...). It's not bulletproof.
But I'm speculating here anyways.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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PSN: AbEntropy
That's not the series of events as I've seen them described in the news or by people who where there.
The white supremacists had previously threatened the protesters.
When they showed up that night, they were told to leave with the BLM people and then escorted away.
There may have been an altercation at this point but it ended. There are disputes I've seen over whether much of anything happened.
While a group of protesters were apparently watching the white supremacists leave to make sure they didn't come back at least one of them turned around and opened fire.
The BLM protesters. The police were refusing to do anything. Except for pepper-spraying the people who tried to run into the station to get away from the gunfire.
I mean, BLM was protesting these cops for a reason after all.
It may just be the way you're wording it.
"escorted" is the word the media and such keep using, not "asked nicely". Though they were asked nicely first. It seems more like a bunch of people told them to GTFO and made sure they did and then as they were leaving they turned back around and opened fire.
Did you watch the video of the eyewitness account from two protestors?
Your account sounds super sanitized versus theirs.
Did you see any other first hand accounts or read any articles on the situation?
Cause you seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions based off a single video.
I don't trust the media to not slant it towards their "side" (left and/or right) and I haven't seen any other first hand accounts. Care to point me to them?
Any reason you are dismissing the one video I am referencing? Those guys seemed legit.
Except the only slant the media would put on this would be the usual anti-BLM one, so when your "I don't trust the media" version is even more anti-protester then that, the accusations of media bias seem really odd.
As for other first hand accounts, someone I know from another forum weirdly enough actually lives there and was at the protest and was talking about it. I don't feel at liberty to go spreading her stuff around places she didn't choose to add it so you can take that as you like. But it basically lines up in all the details with what BLM has been saying and what the media has been reporting from every outlet I've seen.
And so against basically every other report you have a random youtube video. I think it should be obvious why I'm dismissing it at the moment.
I think I get this reference!
Nah, media slant goes both ways. If you don't think left leaning news do everything they can to paint minorities in the most positive light possible when it comes to racism related situations then you aren't paying enough attention. Racism makes great news and is a rallying call for the left.
That's not to say there isn't anti-blm media because there is plenty but I ignore that crap as well.
The video came from the location immediately after it happened and looks like its from reputable sources. That kind of first hand untainted information is the kind I am LEAST liekly to dismiss.
You're arguing about media bias like people will not wholly bias themselves or their personal accounts, or even make up stories from whole cloth.
What? I can only assume at this point with your completely ignoring all the reporting on this issue and these statements that you simply do not consume news.
No, it's some random guys on a youtube video that you believe because they reinforce your desired preexisting narrative.
I thought that I lived in an area free from racism when I was growing up
Then there were proposals to build a centre for asylum seekers on an old naval base nearby
Turns out that it's pretty easy to not be seen as racist when you live in an overwhelmingly white area
I do consume the news. I'm just not blind to the bias coming from the left.
I love how you assume to know what my pre-existing narrative was or that I even had one. Quick, I'm not totally agreeing with everything your "side" believes, I'm obviously the enemy then and must be attacked.
No, but there is the danger that you seek out and consume media that supports your view. We are all guilty of that at times. We all have a blind spot. You accuse others of that while dismissing the possibility that you are biased too. You are not a paragon of high mind neutrality just as I am not. Just look at the video you chose to support your argument.
I specifically always try to get both sides of a story. I generally don't have "views" on situations like this until after I get all the facts I can. I have specifically spent time making sure I don't get caught up in bullshit spin by the media because it literally pisses me off to no end. Sometimes it happens, yes, and I always try to rectify it. But I can honestly say that I mostly do no seek out media that supports my view. I mostly seek out media/facts from all sides before I even make a view of it.
But that's not what even is happening here. It's not a matter of supporting an argument or my "view" of the situation. I'm asking for evidence of what happened that is different from the literal only recorded eye witness account I can find besides some random unknown unverified poster on another forum. I found it odd that Shryke painted this completely different picture than the one told in the one piece of evidence I've seen. I have no reason to believe those guys are lying. They seem to be protestors themselves so I'm not sure why anyone would think they would lie?
O_o it is early, I have not had coffee, and I can't watch the video at work.
Either I am parsing that wrong or there should be a different phrase being used.
One of the people charged was in the initial 4chan video. The guy they arrested and let go was apparently the other man in the video, but was determined not to have been at the protest. I wonder if he rolled on his buddy to get out trouble?
And shockingly one of the guys arrested supports the confederacy, shocked I'm sure you all are.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Agreed. Although with the internet and social media it is not surprising people don't trust the media like they used to.
I don't think we are really going to know much until the police have had a chance to investigate. People frequently make snap judgments in the moment that turn out to be wrong.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Will this be the same police who thinks the proper response to white guys shooting at black people is to mace the black people? I agree with your point, but I have absolutely no faith in the police conducting a proper investigation.
Nah, I'd say that dumb is a statement of fact
Now, the protesters don't have any right to chase off assholes, but I ain't gonna shed any tears if the Nazi's all go to jail.
That's just going off what we know so far, mostly coming from the only eyewitness video released, the press release from the BLM spokespeople, and the Nazi's posting their hate videos ahead of time.
Lotta southern pride down there in Minnesota.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
http://irvingblog.dallasnews.com/2015/11/group-that-brought-guns-to-irving-mosque-publishes-muslims-home-addresses.html/
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I mean all they are doing is labeling people as being muslim and printing out their addresses. I mean its like a Christian news letter only done against their will with the intent to cause them harm. So like a Mormon news letter...
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's amazing that 4chan has gone from Project Chanology in 2008, to armed Stasserites trying to disrupt protests on the streets of Chicago in just seven years.
Yeah, this went so well when the National Socialist German Worker's Party did it to the Jewish people.
Edited because it's probably more important as a reminder that it wasn't a nation as a whole but a (relatively) small group of radicals.
4chan isn't a monolithic entity. Replace "4chan" in your statement with "the internet" and see how it reads.
What is your fucking problem? You don't even live in America and yet you feel this overwhelming need to comment on racial and gun issues in the shittiest possible way when you don't even have full context.