[League of Legends] Worlds are here! Tag your spoilers!

Orphane

that's pretty much how every assassin is supposed to play

but try telling that to most people who play assassins

Dehumanized

I mostly just really like talking about ARAM, king of modes

Jars

I thought urf mode sucked. too much button mashing and painfully broken champs like galio.

Styrofoam Sammich

Yeah if you're an assassin just sit back and look for an opportunity to take kills. Team fighting won't strictly be your thing.

Orphane

urf does blow

but it's more because of the playerbase sucking all the fun out of it than anything else

MKR

Orphane wrote: »

that's pretty much how every assassin is supposed to play

but try telling that to most people who play assassins

Learned this the hard way playing an assassin for the first time. I did okay when I didn't get carried away and kept away from tanks.

Jookie

Orphane wrote: »

that's pretty much how every assassin is supposed to play

but try telling that to most people who play assassins

Remember when, back in the day, Kha'zix got fifty percent damage reduction during his ult? And the pieces of garbage that played him thought that was balanced - and that without it, he was ruined.

Orphane

Khazix had a lot of overpowered stuff in his kit at release

I remember playing and going "haha how did they vet this"

Dehumanized

then they nerfed him out of midlane and junglers picked him up out of the trash and wrecked for another year

Joe K

You know who *really* likes a support with the new zeke's?

just in time for worlds.

Jookie

The effect only gives Corki six AP. I don't think he cares.

Goumindong

Jookie wrote: »

The effect only gives Corki six AP. I don't think he cares.

As a % wise the effect is larger for champions which build less crit[good for corki]. Then again, also smaller for champions with large amounts of bonus damage from other sources[bad for corki]. Also smaller for champions which have lower than normal crit scaling [Corki and Ashe, with Corki having some of the lowest in the game]

The damage boost is 50% with no crit. 57% for champions with IE only. 37% for champions with IE and PD. 43% for champions with 15% crit and no IE. Though of course this isn't counting ability damage.

Spectrum

Jars wrote: »

I thought urf mode sucked. too much button mashing and painfully broken champs like galio.

Whenever URF comes up I play it once or twice to experience the horror that is URF Jax goombastomping faces and then decides that is enough.

Especially since it's BP and people like to gravitate to people they think are strong like Xin or Yi or Fiora or whatever and Jax beats them for free.

Dehumanized

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

PotatoNinja

Dehumanized wrote: »

then they nerfed him out of midlane and junglers picked him up out of the trash and wrecked for another year

Junglers have learned to take the champions deemed unfit for mid and top and sneak them into the jungle to ruin everyone.

PotatoNinja

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

PotatoNinja

Goumindong wrote: »

Jookie wrote: »

The effect only gives Corki six AP. I don't think he cares.

As a % wise the effect is larger for champions which build less crit[good for corki]. Then again, also smaller for champions with large amounts of bonus damage from other sources[bad for corki]. Also smaller for champions which have lower than normal crit scaling [Corki and Ashe, with Corki having some of the lowest in the game]

The damage boost is 50% with no crit. 57% for champions with IE only. 37% for champions with IE and PD. 43% for champions with 15% crit and no IE. Though of course this isn't counting ability damage.

I wonder how effective it would be for Draven to use Zeke's to make up for PD and rely on more AD instead. Probably not wise overall, but MEGA AD + IE DRAVEN does like to kill people in two hits.

Goumindong

If your support fets zekes it might make sense to get ghostblade as an alternative to PD.

PotatoNinja

Goumindong wrote: »

If your support fets zekes it might make sense to get ghostblade as an alternative to PD.

That's already a pretty popular pick for Draven.

JAEF

PotatoNinja wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

I strongly disagree with this reading of the situation. I think Riot saw themselves how poorly populated their own alternate map modes (TT and Dom) were and decided that heavily investing resources into such modes in hopes of long term player adoption wasn't working. Sure they have dedicated fanbases (Talith and that one other guy) but it distracts from their core gameplay offerings. There's an interesting dev blog from 2014 that discusses the idea behind temporary game modes. Iterating in small bursts where there are no expectations on long-term balance, maintenance and updates (see: balance drought for TT/Dom for long stretches of time before they put a team on it) allow them to try new things and, where they are successful (hello ARAM snowballs), implement them into the game.

Far from being "scared away from novelty in map and game mode design" I think Riot eventually understood the constraints and demands that permanent features create. While this doesn't excuse the lack of things like sandbox mode, they don't want to create another situation where they're forced to devote more and more resources just to maintain things like a permanent URF. The core product is indeed SR and that's where the majority of gameplay updates occur. What happens alongside those updates is echoing effects through Dom/TT and to a lesser extent ARAM which have to be accounted for.

The BGH<->RTS<->Map Mode connection is some illuminati shit, I really don't understand where you're coming from with that.

Orphane

JAEF wrote: »

PotatoNinja wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

I strongly disagree with this reading of the situation. I think Riot saw themselves how poorly populated their own alternate map modes (TT and Dom) were and decided that heavily investing resources into such modes in hopes of long term player adoption wasn't working. Sure they have dedicated fanbases (Talith and that one other guy) but it distracts from their core gameplay offerings. There's an interesting dev blog from 2014 that discusses the idea behind temporary game modes. Iterating in small bursts where there are no expectations on long-term balance, maintenance and updates (see: balance drought for TT/Dom for long stretches of time before they put a team on it) allow them to try new things and, where they are successful (hello ARAM snowballs), implement them into the game.

Far from being "scared away from novelty in map and game mode design" I think Riot eventually understood the constraints and demands that permanent features create. While this doesn't excuse the lack of things like sandbox mode, they don't want to create another situation where they're forced to devote more and more resources just to maintain things like a permanent URF. The core product is indeed SR and that's where the majority of gameplay updates occur. What happens alongside those updates is echoing effects through Dom/TT and to a lesser extent ARAM which have to be accounted for.

The BGH<->RTS<->Map Mode connection is some illuminati shit, I really don't understand where you're coming from with that.

rude

i mostly think it was just poor communication of the conscious decision to focus on SR that tanked the alt game modes and built up a fuckload of resentment from Dom/TT players

they kept saying "yeah we'll look into it, we'll look into it, we got a guy working on it"
then finally "just kidding we aren't working on it"

had they just been honest from the start and been like "this is a mistake we made, this is what we learned from it, this is how we're addressing it" people probably just would have been like "whatever but i guess i understand"

Hiryu02

Skarner to be reworked again. Garen added to the rework schedule along with Darius and Morde.

Pls Rito no kill Darius Q and passive.

Jars

the funny thing is ascension is probably more balanced than SR

JAEF

Orphane wrote: »

JAEF wrote: »

PotatoNinja wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

I strongly disagree with this reading of the situation. I think Riot saw themselves how poorly populated their own alternate map modes (TT and Dom) were and decided that heavily investing resources into such modes in hopes of long term player adoption wasn't working. Sure they have dedicated fanbases (Talith and that one other guy) but it distracts from their core gameplay offerings. There's an interesting dev blog from 2014 that discusses the idea behind temporary game modes. Iterating in small bursts where there are no expectations on long-term balance, maintenance and updates (see: balance drought for TT/Dom for long stretches of time before they put a team on it) allow them to try new things and, where they are successful (hello ARAM snowballs), implement them into the game.

Far from being "scared away from novelty in map and game mode design" I think Riot eventually understood the constraints and demands that permanent features create. While this doesn't excuse the lack of things like sandbox mode, they don't want to create another situation where they're forced to devote more and more resources just to maintain things like a permanent URF. The core product is indeed SR and that's where the majority of gameplay updates occur. What happens alongside those updates is echoing effects through Dom/TT and to a lesser extent ARAM which have to be accounted for.

The BGH<->RTS<->Map Mode connection is some illuminati shit, I really don't understand where you're coming from with that.

rude

i mostly think it was just poor communication of the conscious decision to focus on SR that tanked the alt game modes and built up a fuckload of resentment from Dom/TT players

they kept saying "yeah we'll look into it, we'll look into it, we got a guy working on it"
then finally "just kidding we aren't working on it"

had they just been honest from the start and been like "this is a mistake we made, this is what we learned from it, this is how we're addressing it" people probably just would have been like "whatever but i guess i understand"

I'm sure better communication would have been good for the company image and maybe quelled some grumbling but I don't know that it would have made any difference in the actual player base for those maps moreso than actually committing the resources required to make them permanent (semi-)competitive modes. All their balancing resources are dedicated to SR, they do have that one guy updating a few things here and there with TT/Dom as they go, but they've made it clear they don't want to dilute the queues long term nor invest the required resources into upkeep for permanent new maps and game modes.

These lore events (with accompanying new modes/maps, earnable icons, etc.) are also a great way to re-engage old players and get them to come back, play, buy some skins, buy gangplank, get pissed gangplank is disabled, uninstall, then reinstall when the next lore event is out and forget they bought gangplank. Business-wise it makes sense, Riot has fun, the players have fun. Maybe they'll take a stab at bigger features down the road but honestly, with Riot's internal structure and deliverable pipeline it's a miracle they even get patches out the door.

Goumindong

China did this event much better. Gangplank is not disabled; it's just you can only play as ghost GP

Orphane

JAEF wrote: »

Orphane wrote: »

JAEF wrote: »

PotatoNinja wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

I strongly disagree with this reading of the situation. I think Riot saw themselves how poorly populated their own alternate map modes (TT and Dom) were and decided that heavily investing resources into such modes in hopes of long term player adoption wasn't working. Sure they have dedicated fanbases (Talith and that one other guy) but it distracts from their core gameplay offerings. There's an interesting dev blog from 2014 that discusses the idea behind temporary game modes. Iterating in small bursts where there are no expectations on long-term balance, maintenance and updates (see: balance drought for TT/Dom for long stretches of time before they put a team on it) allow them to try new things and, where they are successful (hello ARAM snowballs), implement them into the game.

Far from being "scared away from novelty in map and game mode design" I think Riot eventually understood the constraints and demands that permanent features create. While this doesn't excuse the lack of things like sandbox mode, they don't want to create another situation where they're forced to devote more and more resources just to maintain things like a permanent URF. The core product is indeed SR and that's where the majority of gameplay updates occur. What happens alongside those updates is echoing effects through Dom/TT and to a lesser extent ARAM which have to be accounted for.

The BGH<->RTS<->Map Mode connection is some illuminati shit, I really don't understand where you're coming from with that.

rude

i mostly think it was just poor communication of the conscious decision to focus on SR that tanked the alt game modes and built up a fuckload of resentment from Dom/TT players

they kept saying "yeah we'll look into it, we'll look into it, we got a guy working on it"
then finally "just kidding we aren't working on it"

had they just been honest from the start and been like "this is a mistake we made, this is what we learned from it, this is how we're addressing it" people probably just would have been like "whatever but i guess i understand"

I'm sure better communication would have been good for the company image and maybe quelled some grumbling but I don't know that it would have made any difference in the actual player base for those maps moreso than actually committing the resources required to make them permanent (semi-)competitive modes. All their balancing resources are dedicated to SR, they do have that one guy updating a few things here and there with TT/Dom as they go, but they've made it clear they don't want to dilute the queues long term nor invest the required resources into upkeep for permanent new maps and game modes.

These lore events (with accompanying new modes/maps, earnable icons, etc.) are also a great way to re-engage old players and get them to come back, play, buy some skins, buy gangplank, get pissed gangplank is disabled, uninstall, then reinstall when the next lore event is out and forget they bought gangplank. Business-wise it makes sense, Riot has fun, the players have fun. Maybe they'll take a stab at bigger features down the road but honestly, with Riot's internal structure and deliverable pipeline it's a miracle they even get patches out the door.

oh no, i agree with you on the whole "not making a difference" part

i just mean they should have let us know their intentions earlier so we could either decide to bail and not suffer the vain hope of getting dedicated support or stick with dominion as it would be

Orphane

informed decisions as it were

Spectrum

Since it came up earlier, I got around to breaking out jungle Sated Devourer Aatrox out for testing purposes. It's decent if he can get to fight squishies and not get kited like a bitch but his kit still kinda sucks these days *and* he just flat out loses straight up to guys like Jax...so if you want to do this just play Jax.

Orphane

who wants a piece of the champ

TIFunkalicious

this was a highlight. I'd like to thank the wonderful community

vagrant_winds

I'm having to play ARAMs for these icons.

I hate ARAM.

Hargaad of Omnar

Orphane wrote: »

JAEF wrote: »

Orphane wrote: »

JAEF wrote: »

PotatoNinja wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

I'd like it if URF was around permanently because it's closer to a practice mode than what we've got now. 30 CD flashes and 20 second ultimates means you can really figure out limitations and capabilities of a kit.

As a PVP mode, I usually don't get more than a handful of games in when it comes around.

I know some folks on the Riot team are old old old RTS players, including several StarCraft veterans. If you played StarCraft way back in the way back old days, you might remember "Big Game Hunters," and that (combined with Morello's experience at ArenaNet and with Guild Wars) seems to have scared Riot away from novelty in map and game mode design.

I do miss the weird, fun modes, and would like to see them a little more often, but I understand why they're kept so rare. The game is designed to be played on SR, that is what everything is balanced around and where the game's main depth is designed to be found. Players will flock to the novelty of URF or similar modes, but they lack the strategic depth necessary to maintain a game for years on end.

I strongly disagree with this reading of the situation. I think Riot saw themselves how poorly populated their own alternate map modes (TT and Dom) were and decided that heavily investing resources into such modes in hopes of long term player adoption wasn't working. Sure they have dedicated fanbases (Talith and that one other guy) but it distracts from their core gameplay offerings. There's an interesting dev blog from 2014 that discusses the idea behind temporary game modes. Iterating in small bursts where there are no expectations on long-term balance, maintenance and updates (see: balance drought for TT/Dom for long stretches of time before they put a team on it) allow them to try new things and, where they are successful (hello ARAM snowballs), implement them into the game.

Far from being "scared away from novelty in map and game mode design" I think Riot eventually understood the constraints and demands that permanent features create. While this doesn't excuse the lack of things like sandbox mode, they don't want to create another situation where they're forced to devote more and more resources just to maintain things like a permanent URF. The core product is indeed SR and that's where the majority of gameplay updates occur. What happens alongside those updates is echoing effects through Dom/TT and to a lesser extent ARAM which have to be accounted for.

The BGH<->RTS<->Map Mode connection is some illuminati shit, I really don't understand where you're coming from with that.

rude

i mostly think it was just poor communication of the conscious decision to focus on SR that tanked the alt game modes and built up a fuckload of resentment from Dom/TT players

they kept saying "yeah we'll look into it, we'll look into it, we got a guy working on it"
then finally "just kidding we aren't working on it"

had they just been honest from the start and been like "this is a mistake we made, this is what we learned from it, this is how we're addressing it" people probably just would have been like "whatever but i guess i understand"

I'm sure better communication would have been good for the company image and maybe quelled some grumbling but I don't know that it would have made any difference in the actual player base for those maps moreso than actually committing the resources required to make them permanent (semi-)competitive modes. All their balancing resources are dedicated to SR, they do have that one guy updating a few things here and there with TT/Dom as they go, but they've made it clear they don't want to dilute the queues long term nor invest the required resources into upkeep for permanent new maps and game modes.

These lore events (with accompanying new modes/maps, earnable icons, etc.) are also a great way to re-engage old players and get them to come back, play, buy some skins, buy gangplank, get pissed gangplank is disabled, uninstall, then reinstall when the next lore event is out and forget they bought gangplank. Business-wise it makes sense, Riot has fun, the players have fun. Maybe they'll take a stab at bigger features down the road but honestly, with Riot's internal structure and deliverable pipeline it's a miracle they even get patches out the door.

oh no, i agree with you on the whole "not making a difference" part

i just mean they should have let us know their intentions earlier so we could either decide to bail and not suffer the vain hope of getting dedicated support or stick with dominion as it would be

Or, y'know...I'd love to see them take out all other game modes and then suddenly and surprisingly about 1/3 of their playerbase miraculously disappears.

Varethius

Going into Ranked as my worst role (ADC), I called jungler but being bottom on the pole means I got stuck with it
Wonder how fun this'll be!

Kay

Varethius wrote: »

Going into Ranked as my worst role (ADC), I called jungler but being bottom on the pole means I got stuck with it
Wonder how fun this'll be!

1) Pick Draven.

2) Throw axes.

3) Catch axes.

4) Revel in the crowd's adulation.

JAEF

Kay wrote: »

Varethius wrote: »

Going into Ranked as my worst role (ADC), I called jungler but being bottom on the pole means I got stuck with it
Wonder how fun this'll be!

1) Pick Draven.

1.2) Pick Gladiator Draven skin.

2) Throw axes.

3) Catch axes.

3.7) Recall

4) Revel in the crowd's adulation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSizo8ukJkQ

JAEF

Goumindong wrote: »

China did this event much better. Gangplank is not disabled; it's just you can only play as ghost GP

China has temporary skin/champ access built into the client (you get champ/skin rewards with limited duration as rewards for certain things like leveling up) which makes stuff like that pretty easy to implement. You'd think it wouldn't be too hard on NA with the spaghetti code they have for ARAM temp skins and stuff but who knows. Maybe it destroyed their test client.

Kay

Okay now I want Gladiator Draven. (I have Prime Time and Soul Reaver.)

Casual Eddy

Spectrum wrote: »

Hiryu02 wrote: »

What does the Sated phantom attack actually do? What exactly is an "on-hit effect"? I have trouble grasping the way the item works from the wiki description.

On-hit is any effect that activates additionally whenever you make an auto attack. The extra magic damage of the Sated Devourer itself is an on-hit.

This is easiest to understand with things that go off every hit, such as Sated or BoRK or Wit's End. It means that every other auto attack, the phantom will kick in and apply an additional extra hit of damage from those items on top of the normal hit from the auto attack itself.

On people who stack like Jax or Xin Zhao or Aatrox, what it means is every other attack they get two stacks on their counter instead of one. Practically speaking, Jax gets his extra damage hit from his ult passive every other hit instead of every third hit, Xin and Aatrox heal every other hit instead of every third hit, and so on.

I love that it makes a little phantom version of you to make the extra attack. Very nice touch

Casual Eddy

I'm sad I never got to play Lux with a w that makes your allies invisible

Hiryu02

Casual Eddy wrote: »

Spectrum wrote: »

Hiryu02 wrote: »

What does the Sated phantom attack actually do? What exactly is an "on-hit effect"? I have trouble grasping the way the item works from the wiki description.

On-hit is any effect that activates additionally whenever you make an auto attack. The extra magic damage of the Sated Devourer itself is an on-hit.

This is easiest to understand with things that go off every hit, such as Sated or BoRK or Wit's End. It means that every other auto attack, the phantom will kick in and apply an additional extra hit of damage from those items on top of the normal hit from the auto attack itself.

On people who stack like Jax or Xin Zhao or Aatrox, what it means is every other attack they get two stacks on their counter instead of one. Practically speaking, Jax gets his extra damage hit from his ult passive every other hit instead of every third hit, Xin and Aatrox heal every other hit instead of every third hit, and so on.

I love that it makes a little phantom version of you to make the extra attack. Very nice touch

Tried this on Yi yesterday and never saw this animation? Is this on high settings only because medium is about it for me.