At the very least you can test the modified organisms in the lab to confirm the correct change has been made since you'd be deploying viable whole organisms not a retroviral vector. Similarly contained population studies can show you if gene drive is likely to go haywire or not.
What I want to know is; why aren't we modifying humans to be immune to plasmodium? It worked for smallpox…
well, because scientists are big scaredy cats when it comes to genetically modifing millions of people, and we don't have a mechanism for getting living people's immune systems to kick it's ass, and it would continue to live in other species so unlike small pox the rate of infection wouldn't tail off.
edit:wasps are cool and only really impact humans who are incredibly allergic.
Sure, but when they're flying at your face "They only impact people who are allergic" isn't much comfort.
What are the results from the Phase 3 trial?1
Vaccine efficacy
Over the full duration of the trial, vaccine efficacy against clinical malaria in infants was 27% in the group that received four doses of RTS,S (3 doses at 6, 10 and 14 weeks of age, and a fourth dose 18 months later); and 18% in the group that did not receive the fourth dose of the vaccine. In these infants, no significant efficacy was noted against severe malaria, with or without a fourth dose.
Among children aged 5-17 months who received four doses on a 0, 1, 2, 20 month schedule, vaccine efficacy against clinical malaria was 39% over the full duration of the trial. With a four-dose schedule, the overall efficacy against severe malaria among children in this age group was 31.5%, with reductions in severe anaemia, malaria hospitalizations and all-cause hospitalizations also seen.
Among children aged 5-17 months who did not receive a fourth dose of the vaccine, no protection was seen against severe malaria, as cases prevented in the first 18 months occurred later. These results highlight the importance of a fourth dose with this vaccine, as efficacy is short-lived.
these aren't exactly fantastic numbers. you have to get it to large populations of at risk people, with not great infrastructure for doing so, probably indefinitely to prevent 35ish% of more severe cases.
it's not nothing. but not nearly what you get with smallpox vaccinations.
At the very least you can test the modified organisms in the lab to confirm the correct change has been made since you'd be deploying viable whole organisms not a retroviral vector. Similarly contained population studies can show you if gene drive is likely to go haywire or not.
What I want to know is; why aren't we modifying humans to be immune to plasmodium? It worked for smallpox…
well, because scientists are big scaredy cats when it comes to genetically modifing millions of people, and we don't have a mechanism for getting living people's immune systems to kick it's ass, and it would continue to live in other species so unlike small pox the rate of infection wouldn't tail off.
edit:wasps are cool and only really impact humans who are incredibly allergic.
I am allergic but even if I wasn't they are little assholes sent to Earth by Satan himself.
When they start doing genetic modification on adults I will be the first to sign up. I don't even care what it's for. Just stick the needle in me and see what happens. I'm game.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Yeah but fuck mosquitos. Wasps too, let's send them back to hell where they came from, too.
No-one is gonna make mosquitoes extinct with the "immune to plasmodium" thing. Might even make the modified species more viable as plasmodium is not a net benefit to mosquitoes, nor to anything else except plasmodium. Hell, they're probably not even gonna eliminate plasmodium, just drive it back into isolated pockets
One day aliens will invade, and all of our weapons will be useless against them. And there will be no more polio, black death, or malaria to kill the aliens for us. :sad:
One day aliens will invade, and all of our weapons will be useless against them. And there will be no more polio, black death, or malaria to kill the aliens for us. :sad:
Black death is still with us today. Hunters frequently still catch it in the US.
At the very least you can test the modified organisms in the lab to confirm the correct change has been made since you'd be deploying viable whole organisms not a retroviral vector. Similarly contained population studies can show you if gene drive is likely to go haywire or not.
What I want to know is; why aren't we modifying humans to be immune to plasmodium? It worked for smallpox…
well, because scientists are big scaredy cats when it comes to genetically modifing millions of people, and we don't have a mechanism for getting living people's immune systems to kick it's ass, and it would continue to live in other species so unlike small pox the rate of infection wouldn't tail off.
edit:wasps are cool and only really impact humans who are incredibly allergic.
I am allergic but even if I wasn't they are little assholes sent to Earth by Satan himself.
this specism. you make me want to paralyze you and implant my fertilized eggs in your body cavity.
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
Winky on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
How many actually finish out an antibiotics cure, and don't just stop when they feel alright again? Generously guessing one in five.
That and all the other major ways we're not being great about antibiotics makes me feel like there'll never be a dearth of nasty stuff to throw at extraterrestrials when the need arises.
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
How do you determine what natural diseases and viruses would be deadly, or mutate to be deadly, to a species without ever coming into contact with that species?
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
How do you determine what natural diseases and viruses would be deadly, or mutate to be deadly, to a species without ever coming into contact with that species?
that really depends on your level of technology.
quite possibly you just don't bring ones you don't pretty much fully control. if you're whole deal is you don't interfere with undeveloped cultures, and have magical teleporting technology and replicators.
or you go down in hermetic suits, because you probably are just as vulnerable.
or you go the cyborg route and buld digestive systems that don't need microflora.
or you kidnap people and animals and do tests.
or any of the infinity other solutions you can come up with if you decide you are going to be a culture that goes and lands on inhabited planets, or participates in interstellar trade.
I think you guys are vastly overestimating the threat from alien microorganisms. Pathogens need to be extremely specialized to defeat an active immune system like ours--it takes countless billions of exposures for a virus to make the jump between two species as closely related as humans and pigs. When it comes to completely foreign threats, your immune system easily has the upper hand. In reality you'd be more likely to suddenly contract Dutch elm disease than the Klingon Flu.
The reason you wouldn't immediately walk around without a suit on Alpha Centauri or wherever is that you wouldn't want to risk contaminating the local biosphere with various Earth-derived species, not that you'd become ill yourself.
University of Pittsburgh Medical Center researcher Robert Gaunt touches the finger of a robotic arm, causing Nathan Copeland, who has paralysis in all four limbs, to feel that sensation in his own finger. (UPMC/Pitt Health Sciences)
For the first time, scientists have helped a paralyzed man experience the sense of touch in his mind-controlled robotic arm.
For the cutting-edge experiment, a collaboration between the University of Pittsburgh and the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, electrodes smaller than a grain of sand were implanted in the sensory cortex of the man's brain. The electrodes received signals from a robot arm. When a researcher pressed the fingers of the prosthesis, the man felt the pressure in the fingers of his paralyzed right hand, effectively bypassing his damaged spinal cord.
The results of the experiment, which have been repeated over several months with 30-year-old Nathan Copeland, offer a breakthrough in the restoration of a critical function in people with paralyzed limbs: the ability not just to move those limbs, but to feel them.
The experiment with Copeland was a featured stop Thursday when President Obama visited Pittsburgh for a White House Frontiers Conference on advances in science, medicine and technology. The researchers described how neuroscience has been able to build a technology where simply imagining a motion translates into motion, in this case a robotic arm.
“It’s amazing. Pretty cool,” Obama said, before asking Copeland to "blow it up" with a handshake, where they each pulled their hand away at the end. “I couldn’t be prouder of all of you.”
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
.
I'm pretty sure Star Trek does directly solve this through the way that transporters work. They screen out anything potentially harmful.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
.
I'm pretty sure Star Trek does directly solve this through the way that transporters work. They screen out anything potentially harmful.
Well, anything they know is harmful, plus a limited amount of heuristic similarity checks. There are ample episodes to indicate it isn't perfect yet.
I think you guys are vastly overestimating the threat from alien microorganisms. Pathogens need to be extremely specialized to defeat an active immune system like ours--it takes countless billions of exposures for a virus to make the jump between two species as closely related as humans and pigs. When it comes to completely foreign threats, your immune system easily has the upper hand. In reality you'd be more likely to suddenly contract Dutch elm disease than the Klingon Flu.
The reason you wouldn't immediately walk around without a suit on Alpha Centauri or wherever is that you wouldn't want to risk contaminating the local biosphere with various Earth-derived species, not that you'd become ill yourself.
Isn't that the same thing, but in reverse? You can't both say that alien pathogens won't affect you, but your pathogens will affect aliens, right?
i'm sure there's plenty of labs around the world keeping those plagues alive for just such an occasion.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
.
I'm pretty sure Star Trek does directly solve this through the way that transporters work. They screen out anything potentially harmful.
Well, anything they know is harmful, plus a limited amount of heuristic similarity checks. There are ample episodes to indicate it isn't perfect yet.
Some viruses you could eliminate with the transporters, others you have to fend off with a baseball bat.
Also sorry to interrupt you serious science guys with a picture of a spaceman.
John Glenn is my favorite astronaut - post away!
I think I have more but I just need to dig it up. Since he was Director there's tons of candid photos.
Well one technically science, before the NASA logo:
And still technically science since... worked for NASA I guess. With a certain political family, just some small politician... Ken something. I need the story behind this one.
Frei on
Are you the magic man?
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
oh this is a good one. i think this is the last I have right now.
I think you guys are vastly overestimating the threat from alien microorganisms. Pathogens need to be extremely specialized to defeat an active immune system like ours--it takes countless billions of exposures for a virus to make the jump between two species as closely related as humans and pigs. When it comes to completely foreign threats, your immune system easily has the upper hand. In reality you'd be more likely to suddenly contract Dutch elm disease than the Klingon Flu.
The reason you wouldn't immediately walk around without a suit on Alpha Centauri or wherever is that you wouldn't want to risk contaminating the local biosphere with various Earth-derived species, not that you'd become ill yourself.
Isn't that the same thing, but in reverse? You can't both say that alien pathogens won't affect you, but your pathogens will affect aliens, right?
No, it isn't the same thing. Humans (and anything else with a similarly developed immune system) are very, very hard to infect--but ecosystems are very easy to invade. The risk is that you'd introduce invasive species to an otherwise pristine environment, which is both stupid (you want to study the alien life, not some e. coli hitchhiker) and also kind of a dick move.
Posts
Sure, but when they're flying at your face "They only impact people who are allergic" isn't much comfort.
http://www.who.int/immunization/research/development/malaria_vaccine_qa/en/
these aren't exactly fantastic numbers. you have to get it to large populations of at risk people, with not great infrastructure for doing so, probably indefinitely to prevent 35ish% of more severe cases.
it's not nothing. but not nearly what you get with smallpox vaccinations.
Just saying, we're working on that too.
And 39% efficacy is still, like, 400,000 people (assuming full participation, which is admittedly impossible).
The NIH likes it, at any rate.
yes and your HR manager isn't literally a warlord.
Any warlord worth his salt should be able to get way better than 20% compliance.
I am allergic but even if I wasn't they are little assholes sent to Earth by Satan himself.
No-one is gonna make mosquitoes extinct with the "immune to plasmodium" thing. Might even make the modified species more viable as plasmodium is not a net benefit to mosquitoes, nor to anything else except plasmodium. Hell, they're probably not even gonna eliminate plasmodium, just drive it back into isolated pockets
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Black death is still with us today. Hunters frequently still catch it in the US.
Fucking tree-hugging antivaxers...
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
this specism. you make me want to paralyze you and implant my fertilized eggs in your body cavity.
And Hanta virus.
Literally marked "for use on extraterrestrial invaders"
EDIT: I actually kind of wonder if we would have any sort of ethical qualms about using biological warfare on alien invaders.
I guess it would probably be in direct proportion to the existential threat they posed.
That and all the other major ways we're not being great about antibiotics makes me feel like there'll never be a dearth of nasty stuff to throw at extraterrestrials when the need arises.
I imagine 90% of any germ warfare with life from another planet would be entirely incidental anyways. The stuff that kills us tends to do so because it developed in another creature, so there wouldn't be any reason to break out the stuff that's actually dangerous to humans when some typically benign human viruses can do it.
The likelihood is that it'd go both ways anyways,
The hidden dark side of Star Trek, every planet you visit has a spanish-flu-level-event after you leave.
These are totally foreseeable problems that that interstellar society would probably figure out before repeating too many times.
these were after some tests so that's why Glenn is in a robe, they weren't just leaving a spa or something.
How do you determine what natural diseases and viruses would be deadly, or mutate to be deadly, to a species without ever coming into contact with that species?
that really depends on your level of technology.
quite possibly you just don't bring ones you don't pretty much fully control. if you're whole deal is you don't interfere with undeveloped cultures, and have magical teleporting technology and replicators.
or you go down in hermetic suits, because you probably are just as vulnerable.
or you go the cyborg route and buld digestive systems that don't need microflora.
or you kidnap people and animals and do tests.
or any of the infinity other solutions you can come up with if you decide you are going to be a culture that goes and lands on inhabited planets, or participates in interstellar trade.
The reason you wouldn't immediately walk around without a suit on Alpha Centauri or wherever is that you wouldn't want to risk contaminating the local biosphere with various Earth-derived species, not that you'd become ill yourself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/10/13/in-a-medical-first-brain-implant-allows-paralyzed-man-to-feel-again/
Plenty more in the link
I'm pretty sure Star Trek does directly solve this through the way that transporters work. They screen out anything potentially harmful.
Well, anything they know is harmful, plus a limited amount of heuristic similarity checks. There are ample episodes to indicate it isn't perfect yet.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
John Glenn is my favorite astronaut - post away!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Isn't that the same thing, but in reverse? You can't both say that alien pathogens won't affect you, but your pathogens will affect aliens, right?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Some viruses you could eliminate with the transporters, others you have to fend off with a baseball bat.
I think ants are super cool. George Takei apparently agrees with me.
I submit this video in support of that hypothesis.
The best microscopy images of 2016. Warning:contains a few extreme closeups of insects and spiders.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/a-sense-of-scale-the-best-microscopy-of-2016/
There's some incredible images in there. My favorites are the ones of polarized light through crystals.
I think I have more but I just need to dig it up. Since he was Director there's tons of candid photos.
Well one technically science, before the NASA logo:
And still technically science since... worked for NASA I guess. With a certain political family, just some small politician... Ken something. I need the story behind this one.