Asset spam is making me hate being a runner. Whether it's NEH or Palana or IG, I am hating it. Any tips for dealing with it?
Keyhole, siphon and other heavy central pressure. If they're spamming assets, they're probably running ice light and not equipped for defending centrals. Eater/Siphon/Keyhole/Apoc Maxx has good matchups against NEH and IG and shouldn't be hurt if Faust and Wyldside end up on the MWL.
It's not worth trying to contest asset spam by trashing their stuff. Asset rez/trash ratios are good enough now that even Wizzard can't keep up. There's a few that you'll have to kill like Sensie Actors Union but you want to force them to react to you rather than trying to stop their plans.
Doesn't Apoc Maxx die horribly to IG if they get one Hostile rezzed?
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Asset spam is making me hate being a runner. Whether it's NEH or Palana or IG, I am hating it. Any tips for dealing with it?
Keyhole, siphon and other heavy central pressure. If they're spamming assets, they're probably running ice light and not equipped for defending centrals. Eater/Siphon/Keyhole/Apoc Maxx has good matchups against NEH and IG and shouldn't be hurt if Faust and Wyldside end up on the MWL.
It's not worth trying to contest asset spam by trashing their stuff. Asset rez/trash ratios are good enough now that even Wizzard can't keep up. There's a few that you'll have to kill like Sensie Actors Union but you want to force them to react to you rather than trying to stop their plans.
Doesn't Apoc Maxx die horribly to IG if they get one Hostile rezzed?
You just have to kill the Hostile first before the Apoc turn. Running centrals is not difficult, they rarely have good ice aside from Hive. I've also slotted a Councilman just in case on my deck, and theoretically it should help.
Asset spam is making me hate being a runner. Whether it's NEH or Palana or IG, I am hating it. Any tips for dealing with it?
Keyhole, siphon and other heavy central pressure. If they're spamming assets, they're probably running ice light and not equipped for defending centrals. Eater/Siphon/Keyhole/Apoc Maxx has good matchups against NEH and IG and shouldn't be hurt if Faust and Wyldside end up on the MWL.
It's not worth trying to contest asset spam by trashing their stuff. Asset rez/trash ratios are good enough now that even Wizzard can't keep up. There's a few that you'll have to kill like Sensie Actors Union but you want to force them to react to you rather than trying to stop their plans.
Doesn't Apoc Maxx die horribly to IG if they get one Hostile rezzed?
You just have to kill the Hostile first before the Apoc turn. Running centrals is not difficult, they rarely have good ice aside from Hive. I've also slotted a Councilman just in case on my deck, and theoretically it should help.
Also they likely don't have any money due to Siphon spam, so if it's not rezzed then you may not even need to worry!
Looks like we have the full set of Devas. They seem pretty garbage, really; none of them are really worth the install cost, and they don't combine to be anything particularly interesting. Unless there's a way to increase their measly strength values, they seem to be Alpha/Omega tier.
Brahman seems potent, though; STR 3, 1 to break two subs?. Get a Scheherazade, Technical Writer(s), beneficial program (David, CyCy, Lady), and Oracle May. Make a run, spend recurring credits, use Brahman, return recurring credit program to deck. Oracle May, reinstall program, get three credits plus Tech Writer stacks.
Then again, it's just going to run into all the Faust hate and be not amazing. I wonder if it's getting any more love in this set?
Looks like we have the full set of Devas. They seem pretty garbage, really; none of them are really worth the install cost, and they don't combine to be anything particularly interesting. Unless there's a way to increase their measly strength values, they seem to be Alpha/Omega tier.
Brahman seems potent, though; STR 3, 1 to break two subs?. Get a Scheherazade, Technical Writer(s), beneficial program (David, CyCy, Lady), and Oracle May. Make a run, spend recurring credits, use Brahman, return recurring credit program to deck. Oracle May, reinstall program, get three credits plus Tech Writer stacks.
Then again, it's just going to run into all the Faust hate and be not amazing. I wonder if it's getting any more love in this set?
I mean, you could combine in Haley (or Professor!) with LLDS, Chameleon, and Paricia/Multithreader. The Oracle May combo is kind of cool too, same with Eureka.
Add in Replicator/Bazaar/Net Chip with Tech Writers and this could almost be a deck!
Looks like we have the full set of Devas. They seem pretty garbage, really; none of them are really worth the install cost, and they don't combine to be anything particularly interesting. Unless there's a way to increase their measly strength values, they seem to be Alpha/Omega tier.
Brahman seems potent, though; STR 3, 1 to break two subs?. Get a Scheherazade, Technical Writer(s), beneficial program (David, CyCy, Lady), and Oracle May. Make a run, spend recurring credits, use Brahman, return recurring credit program to deck. Oracle May, reinstall program, get three credits plus Tech Writer stacks.
Then again, it's just going to run into all the Faust hate and be not amazing. I wonder if it's getting any more love in this set?
Put it in Haley to recoup the click loss? maybe throw in some drug dealers to automatically draw the cards back?
The more I think about it, the more I find the ability to return David to your hand repeatedly to be a better effect than Brahmin's AI.
Use Brahmin, return David. Oracle May to draw it back, reinstall it on Scheherazade. Kate to reduce the price by 1. That's two clicks and one credit to gain two credits (and Brahman being an efficient AI) and have another David.
Maybe not amazing in the current meta, but pretty interesting against glacier. Imagine doing Keyhole runs with infinite Davids?
They could have just made the card Shaper-only by giving it 0 influence, like with agendas. All the viruses are Criminal and Anarch so Imp and Cache shenanigans would be more limited.
They could have just made the card Shaper-only by giving it 0 influence, like with agendas. All the viruses are Criminal and Anarch so Imp and Cache shenanigans would be more limited.
Oh Jesus. Recurring Cache twice a turn with May, Scheherazade, and Grimoire? Be still my shaper heart.
Honestly I'm surprised there hasn't been more no-influence-meter cards other than agendas yet. Feels like five-influence stuff always ends up being underwhelming and never actually worth the influence even *if* you actually go out-of-faction with it. Heck, fours are even pushing it most of the time. Might as well just say Shaper-only and balance accordingly instead of having to worry about edge cases.
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So we had a Maryland vs Virginia tourney yesterday. I played the Robocop deck for my corp and Logos Leela for my runner deck. The Leela games were okay but I kept getting to 5/6 points and not being able to finish the game. I had fun but I had a miserable showing and went 0-8. Most memorable moments were keyholeing a Palana player and running on 8 points of agenda in archives, only to run in to Kitsune and get killed by a snare. Also at one point while corping I got off the surat/brain taping combo and had a ton of ice rezzed, and got apoc'd.
I regret playing the robocop deck, shoulda stuck with what I know, PE. Definitely a learning experience. Team Virginia ended up winning
Got some cool swag and had a great time though
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Here's a thought for a cool tournament idea: Everything is Consumer Grade.
Every card is limit 6/deck, instead of 3/deck. Yes, you can have 6 Astros, 6 Snare!, 6 Hedge Fund/Sure Gamble, 6 NEXT Silver/Bronze, 6 Scorched Earth. 6 Imp, 6 Account Siphon, 6 SMC. But influence counts remain the same, as does the MWL.
I suspect it probably will help the corp far more than the Runner, though, but that's what fun testing is for!
While it might be fun to run 6x Data Ravens... That might mean you'd run into 6x Bio-Ethics, or 6x Snares, and eff that.
1/deck probably stays 1/deck. If the card itself limits how many can be in the deck, then that stays. I mean, it's kind of like draft in that respect - there's no limit on the number of a given card you can put in your deck if you draft them. I once drafted 4 silvers and 5 bronzes.
I mean, it's designed to be a ridiculous format anyway. Though a 6 Bio-ethics/6 Snare!/6 Shock/6 Mumba Temple deck would probably be bonkers. 6 clone chips and Deus X might not be insane in such a meta! (or Net Shields).
I took my own version of this Gagarin deck to a league night tonight. I put in some hives and 2 Underway Renovations for maximum dorkiness and it actually worked out pretty well!
I think it just mostly lacks real credits to use for advancing things and still being able to have cash for SEA/Scorch. Diversified portfolio is amazing... If I draw it. Thinking about what I can squeeze in to add some more cash to the mix. Maybe some Commecial Bankers Groups? Just not sure what I'd cut in order to put them in. Maybe the EBCs? I honestly never actually used one all night...
I took my own version of this Gagarin deck to a league night tonight. I put in some hives and 2 Underway Renovations for maximum dorkiness and it actually worked out pretty well!
I think it just mostly lacks real credits to use for advancing things and still being able to have cash for SEA/Scorch. Diversified portfolio is amazing... If I draw it. Thinking about what I can squeeze in to add some more cash to the mix. Maybe some Commecial Bankers Groups? Just not sure what I'd cut in order to put them in. Maybe the EBCs? I honestly never actually used one all night...
I took my own version of this Gagarin deck to a league night tonight. I put in some hives and 2 Underway Renovations for maximum dorkiness and it actually worked out pretty well!
I think it just mostly lacks real credits to use for advancing things and still being able to have cash for SEA/Scorch. Diversified portfolio is amazing... If I draw it. Thinking about what I can squeeze in to add some more cash to the mix. Maybe some Commecial Bankers Groups? Just not sure what I'd cut in order to put them in. Maybe the EBCs? I honestly never actually used one all night...
Haha, that's my deck
hah. wait you mean the one I linked or with Underway Reno in it?
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
haven't you found that much low-strength ice to be a liability?
Only sort of. It's all pretty cheap and I can just shuffle them back in with museums. They only have so many parasites and it's pretty easy for them to lose cutlery pieces to bio-ethics. I think I rezzed like 5 tour guides in one game.
I took my own version of this Gagarin deck to a league night tonight. I put in some hives and 2 Underway Renovations for maximum dorkiness and it actually worked out pretty well!
I think it just mostly lacks real credits to use for advancing things and still being able to have cash for SEA/Scorch. Diversified portfolio is amazing... If I draw it. Thinking about what I can squeeze in to add some more cash to the mix. Maybe some Commecial Bankers Groups? Just not sure what I'd cut in order to put them in. Maybe the EBCs? I honestly never actually used one all night...
Haha, that's my deck
hah. wait you mean the one I linked or with Underway Reno in it?
The one you linked, I've been playing a version of it (mine is 49 cards no museum), and mentioned it to some folk online, who changed it a bit and took it to regionals.
This was my original list...
Terraforming
Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon
Agenda (9)
3x Corporate Sales Team
2x Global Food Initiative ••
1x Oaktown Renovation
3x Project Atlas
Asset (21)
3x Bio-Ethics Association ••••• •
3x Commercial Bankers Group
2x Contract Killer
3x Jackson Howard •••
3x Launch Campaign
3x Mumba Temple ••••• •
3x PAD Campaign
1x Shattered Remains
Yeah I think the things I am most going to fiddle with are the exact mix of ice and econ cards. Pretty happy with the support cards and the crazy Underway Reno shenanigans though.
A shattered remains could be pretty cool, but with bio-ethics down I think I can kill through a plascrete still!
Yeah I think the things I am most going to fiddle with are the exact mix of ice and econ cards. Pretty happy with the support cards and the crazy Underway Reno shenanigans though.
A shattered remains could be pretty cool, but with bio-ethics down I think I can kill through a plascrete still!
I've definitely not tested enough to find an optimal list. Probably 15 ish games only.
Yeah I think I'm going to make a few adjustments and then put it through the rigours of jinteki.net a chunk.
I've been testing out a Stealth Kate deck that is teched to be anti-IG superfriends, too, while still being strong against glacier and NEH. Strangely enough my biggest issue with it turns out to be deck space rather than influence!
Yeah I think the things I am most going to fiddle with are the exact mix of ice and econ cards. Pretty happy with the support cards and the crazy Underway Reno shenanigans though.
A shattered remains could be pretty cool, but with bio-ethics down I think I can kill through a plascrete still!
Can you let me know how testing goes? I think EBC may be better than Shattered Remains. Also I expect Chronos Project may be better than Underway, I tested it in v1 and only changed it due to space.
I definitely want 2 SEA, but really want to find 1 or 2 influence for DBS, any ideas?
If you feel completely mad you could test out Gov Takeover. Just put it on the bottom every time you see it with DBS. Just means you'd need to protect R&D even more, though.
Yeah I think shattered remains is largely unneeded when you can use bio-ethics to whittle down their hand before the kill.
I wish I could get 2 more influence from somewhere to switch my two DBS for SAUs, but I've got the same issue of finding out what to cut!
I might test out Bankers Union instead of PADs too, but I'm not quite yet sold.
you can't chase down all of their assets, because that's gonna sap your money toot-suite. whizzard and scrubbers and such can help but unless your deck is like, specifically designed to counteract this specific strategy they're gonna outpace you tempo wise, especially once they get turtlebacks and the like up and running
and what's worse, if you're playing against jinteki you can never be sure that you're not about to slam into a snare or something
but you definitely gotta hit their remotes because otherwise their board state gets out of control and they can start slipping agendas into their big swathes of unrezzed cards, and can force you into playing a shell game to stop them from scoring out
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
you gotta establish a target priority for assets
it varies from deck to deck but museum of history is very high, as are Jackson and Adonis Campaign
bio-ethics association is very high
things that aren't so high are pad campaign and eve campaign, and turtlebacks doesn't always matter (they can have all the money in the world and it won't matter if they can't do anything with it)
and right now you just have to include some cards that either punish horizontal play or minimize the tempo loss from trashing cards (or both)
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
you can't chase down all of their assets, because that's gonna sap your money toot-suite. whizzard and scrubbers and such can help but unless your deck is like, specifically designed to counteract this specific strategy they're gonna outpace you tempo wise, especially once they get turtlebacks and the like up and running
and what's worse, if you're playing against jinteki you can never be sure that you're not about to slam into a snare or something
but you definitely gotta hit their remotes because otherwise their board state gets out of control and they can start slipping agendas into their big swathes of unrezzed cards, and can force you into playing a shell game to stop them from scoring out
I mean, people are really trying to figure this out in general right now. Asset spam/horizontal decks really weren't that popular before this cycle, except in niche cases, and even then the assets tended to be lower in trash cost or less significant. Now there's a preponderance of really good assets, with low rez/high trash costs, and decks that can make serious use out of them. There's a reason why that Whizzard deck took off so much, and it's for precisely this reason.
In general, you can attack them or ignore them. If you ignore them, make sure you have a strong focus on centrals - lots of multi-access or Keyhole type abilities. If you attack them, you need money or assistance to trash - Imp, Scrubber, Whizard, Paricia, in general economy drip or sustained burst (ie Desperado-Security Testing Criminals). But don't make it so that trashing all their things means you're not building up your own board state. And often, you have to go back and forth between these two strategies.
Especially after some scumbag Geist Siphons you twice, and you don't give any fucks since Mark Yale's on the job. Install him from hand, take a credit so I can rez, gain six from spending counters.
And then he face-plants into a Archer when I'm on game point, and he doesn't have enough stuff to get his Shiv up to snuff to break.
ye ye ye ye your ragequit tastes great.
PMAvers on
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Mark Yale is such a weird card. He's nothing special until he actually goes off, and at that point he's not fun to see on the table. I think he's a great example of an ability that shouldn't have been instant-speed, or could have required you to trash him to use it. It's not that he's broken or anything, but the fewer "massive unexpected credit swings" the game contains, the better. :P
Then again, I could just be bitter about you beating a criminal.
Posts
Doesn't Apoc Maxx die horribly to IG if they get one Hostile rezzed?
You just have to kill the Hostile first before the Apoc turn. Running centrals is not difficult, they rarely have good ice aside from Hive. I've also slotted a Councilman just in case on my deck, and theoretically it should help.
Also they likely don't have any money due to Siphon spam, so if it's not rezzed then you may not even need to worry!
Brahman seems potent, though; STR 3, 1 to break two subs?. Get a Scheherazade, Technical Writer(s), beneficial program (David, CyCy, Lady), and Oracle May. Make a run, spend recurring credits, use Brahman, return recurring credit program to deck. Oracle May, reinstall program, get three credits plus Tech Writer stacks.
Then again, it's just going to run into all the Faust hate and be not amazing. I wonder if it's getting any more love in this set?
I mean, you could combine in Haley (or Professor!) with LLDS, Chameleon, and Paricia/Multithreader. The Oracle May combo is kind of cool too, same with Eureka.
Add in Replicator/Bazaar/Net Chip with Tech Writers and this could almost be a deck!
Put it in Haley to recoup the click loss? maybe throw in some drug dealers to automatically draw the cards back?
Use Brahmin, return David. Oracle May to draw it back, reinstall it on Scheherazade. Kate to reduce the price by 1. That's two clicks and one credit to gain two credits (and Brahman being an efficient AI) and have another David.
Maybe not amazing in the current meta, but pretty interesting against glacier. Imagine doing Keyhole runs with infinite Davids?
Unrelated to early-morning RTFC, I do wish there was a version of Replicator for resources.
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no imp, then
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Oh Jesus. Recurring Cache twice a turn with May, Scheherazade, and Grimoire? Be still my shaper heart.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I regret playing the robocop deck, shoulda stuck with what I know, PE. Definitely a learning experience. Team Virginia ended up winning
Got some cool swag and had a great time though
Every card is limit 6/deck, instead of 3/deck. Yes, you can have 6 Astros, 6 Snare!, 6 Hedge Fund/Sure Gamble, 6 NEXT Silver/Bronze, 6 Scorched Earth. 6 Imp, 6 Account Siphon, 6 SMC. But influence counts remain the same, as does the MWL.
I suspect it probably will help the corp far more than the Runner, though, but that's what fun testing is for!
While it might be fun to run 6x Data Ravens... That might mean you'd run into 6x Bio-Ethics, or 6x Snares, and eff that.
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1/deck probably stays 1/deck. If the card itself limits how many can be in the deck, then that stays. I mean, it's kind of like draft in that respect - there's no limit on the number of a given card you can put in your deck if you draft them. I once drafted 4 silvers and 5 bronzes.
I mean, it's designed to be a ridiculous format anyway. Though a 6 Bio-ethics/6 Snare!/6 Shock/6 Mumba Temple deck would probably be bonkers. 6 clone chips and Deus X might not be insane in such a meta! (or Net Shields).
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
There wouldn't be enough points to steal!
Go forth and never let the corp do anything ever
I think it just mostly lacks real credits to use for advancing things and still being able to have cash for SEA/Scorch. Diversified portfolio is amazing... If I draw it. Thinking about what I can squeeze in to add some more cash to the mix. Maybe some Commecial Bankers Groups? Just not sure what I'd cut in order to put them in. Maybe the EBCs? I honestly never actually used one all night...
Haha, that's my deck
hah. wait you mean the one I linked or with Underway Reno in it?
The one you linked, I've been playing a version of it (mine is 49 cards no museum), and mentioned it to some folk online, who changed it a bit and took it to regionals.
This was my original list...
Terraforming
Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon
Agenda (9)
3x Corporate Sales Team
2x Global Food Initiative ••
1x Oaktown Renovation
3x Project Atlas
Asset (21)
3x Bio-Ethics Association ••••• •
3x Commercial Bankers Group
2x Contract Killer
3x Jackson Howard •••
3x Launch Campaign
3x Mumba Temple ••••• •
3x PAD Campaign
1x Shattered Remains
Operation (6)
1x Interns
3x Scorched Earth
2x SEA Source ••••
Barrier (4)
2x Ice Wall
2x Spiderweb
Code Gate (3)
3x Enigma
Sentry (6)
3x Caduceus
3x Tour Guide
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Democracy and Dogma
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
A shattered remains could be pretty cool, but with bio-ethics down I think I can kill through a plascrete still!
I've definitely not tested enough to find an optimal list. Probably 15 ish games only.
I've been testing out a Stealth Kate deck that is teched to be anti-IG superfriends, too, while still being strong against glacier and NEH. Strangely enough my biggest issue with it turns out to be deck space rather than influence!
Can you let me know how testing goes? I think EBC may be better than Shattered Remains. Also I expect Chronos Project may be better than Underway, I tested it in v1 and only changed it due to space.
I definitely want 2 SEA, but really want to find 1 or 2 influence for DBS, any ideas?
Yeah I think shattered remains is largely unneeded when you can use bio-ethics to whittle down their hand before the kill.
I wish I could get 2 more influence from somewhere to switch my two DBS for SAUs, but I've got the same issue of finding out what to cut!
I might test out Bankers Union instead of PADs too, but I'm not quite yet sold.
as a runner
how the heck do you deal with horizontal corps
you can't chase down all of their assets, because that's gonna sap your money toot-suite. whizzard and scrubbers and such can help but unless your deck is like, specifically designed to counteract this specific strategy they're gonna outpace you tempo wise, especially once they get turtlebacks and the like up and running
and what's worse, if you're playing against jinteki you can never be sure that you're not about to slam into a snare or something
but you definitely gotta hit their remotes because otherwise their board state gets out of control and they can start slipping agendas into their big swathes of unrezzed cards, and can force you into playing a shell game to stop them from scoring out
http://www.audioentropy.com/
it varies from deck to deck but museum of history is very high, as are Jackson and Adonis Campaign
bio-ethics association is very high
things that aren't so high are pad campaign and eve campaign, and turtlebacks doesn't always matter (they can have all the money in the world and it won't matter if they can't do anything with it)
and right now you just have to include some cards that either punish horizontal play or minimize the tempo loss from trashing cards (or both)
I mean, people are really trying to figure this out in general right now. Asset spam/horizontal decks really weren't that popular before this cycle, except in niche cases, and even then the assets tended to be lower in trash cost or less significant. Now there's a preponderance of really good assets, with low rez/high trash costs, and decks that can make serious use out of them. There's a reason why that Whizzard deck took off so much, and it's for precisely this reason.
In general, you can attack them or ignore them. If you ignore them, make sure you have a strong focus on centrals - lots of multi-access or Keyhole type abilities. If you attack them, you need money or assistance to trash - Imp, Scrubber, Whizard, Paricia, in general economy drip or sustained burst (ie Desperado-Security Testing Criminals). But don't make it so that trashing all their things means you're not building up your own board state. And often, you have to go back and forth between these two strategies.
Especially after some scumbag Geist Siphons you twice, and you don't give any fucks since Mark Yale's on the job. Install him from hand, take a credit so I can rez, gain six from spending counters.
And then he face-plants into a Archer when I'm on game point, and he doesn't have enough stuff to get his Shiv up to snuff to break.
ye ye ye ye your ragequit tastes great.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Then again, I could just be bitter about you beating a criminal.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?