The art in the first two panels is terrific. It has nice depth and perspective, it's fun to look at, and it subtly pokes fun at the old comic book convention of characters seemingly delivering entire lengthy speeches in the second or two it takes to punch or kick something.
Hanging around the forums of several creators I like, I completely sympathize with panel two. It's possible to love a creator but also have criticisms or to occasionally NOT like something they do. Those things are not mutually exclusive. And yet at the same time, there are people hanging around some creators' forums----claiming to be "big fans"---who have a post history showing 99/100 posts expressing disappointment in the creator. (The one other post is just a funny gif.) It doesn't occur to them that maybe they don't like this creator after all. Maybe they just like one thing the creator did one time a long time ago.
The last panel is great, because, "I just want [creator] to improve" is the common defense.
You know, as much as I love how alive Mike's art is becoming, my main reason for coming to Penny Arcade has always been and will, for the foreseeable future, be for Jerry's newsposts. I cannot wait for the Lookouts novel.
"Building the future and keeping the past alive are one in the same thing."
You know, as much as I love how alive Mike's art is becoming, my main reason for coming to Penny Arcade has always been and will, for the foreseeable future, be for Jerry's newsposts. I cannot wait for the Lookouts novel.
Oh, that reminds me. I meant to start posting my favorite parts from Jerry's news posts on these content update threads. So here was my favorite block from today:
Let’s say they sound out a word, and try to spell it in there. Maybe the item they wanted comes up! Now they feel like a Goddamned warlock. But, let’s say it doesn’t. Near matches come up. Let’s say they choose the word they meant to write in the beginning. Now they feel like a Goddamned warlock. What if they choose another word? Now they’ve learned a new word, maybe two words, made a new thing, and they feel like a Goddamned warlock.
Hanging around the forums of several creators I like, I completely sympathize with panel two. It's possible to love a creator but also have criticisms or to occasionally NOT like something they do. Those things are not mutually exclusive. And yet at the same time, there are people hanging around some creators' forums----claiming to be "big fans"---who have a post history showing 99/100 posts expressing disappointment in the creator. (The one other post is just a funny gif.) It doesn't occur to them that maybe they don't like this creator after all. Maybe they just like one thing the creator did one time a long time ago.
The last panel is great, because, "I just want [creator] to improve" is the common defense.
Yeah... negative criticism in moderation is fine. But so many people lack any form of balance when it comes to that sort of thing. I think part of the reason why the skew is like that is prevalence of negative reviews and commentary as entertainment and so forth. Even in praising one thing many people tend to put some other thing down in the process.
As for the "I want them to be better" excuse, it's bonus points when they get offended when you ask them if you even like the thing when they've spent the past few months nitpicking and such.
But eh, human nature.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I think part of the reason why the skew is like that is prevalence of negative reviews and commentary as entertainment and so forth.
This is one thing about game culture that I really do find frustrating. It's not as bad as it was a couple of years ago, but for a while there it seemed like you couldn't escape the youtube channels and podcasts that were just "angry gamer rants" and "the angry nerd", and it was always some neckbeard on a petty tirade. The defense of which is always, "Oh but it's just for laughs" and so on, but every one of those things helps shape the aggregate tone of the gaming discourse, and when there is enough of that sort of thing, then the popular way to discuss games is to "rant about them".
Thankfully we have things like Extra Credits now. You know what I really miss, though? BRAINY GAMER.
Michael Abbott was easily, EASIILY, hands down, the #1 best interviewer of industry figures there ever was, and he done went on an eternal hiatus and left a hole in my heart.
Jesus H Cthulu the comics and news posts have been so FUCKING GOOD lately. All of them the last couple of monthsish have been gotdamn gold but the last few weeks have turned it up to 11, ripped off the knob, and shoved it up someone's ass while throwing horns and headbanging.
Everybody has already said it, but the first panel made me chuckle from the writing and I lost it at the art in the second. This is a really good comic right here.
This comic and some of the comments have made me think about some stuff. I'm pretty much the top poster on the Runic Games forum. I've been there since 2009 and love their games but I've been critical of some of what they've done (the story in Torchlight II to be specific). I can't help but wonder if in my desire to be fair and helpful I haven't been the opposite instead.
I dunno. They're a great group of people and some of them like me enough to consider me a friend. I guess that alone should tell me I'm OK. I just want to help because I want them to be successful. They're great people. They deserve it. I just don't want to be 'that' guy, you know? I'm probably worrying too much.
This comic and some of the comments have made me think about some stuff. I'm pretty much the top poster on the Runic Games forum. I've been there since 2009 and love their games but I've been critical of some of what they've done (the story in Torchlight II to be specific). I can't help but wonder if in my desire to be fair and helpful I haven't been the opposite instead.
I dunno. They're a great group of people and some of them like me enough to consider me a friend. I guess that alone should tell me I'm OK. I just want to help because I want them to be successful. They're great people. They deserve it. I just don't want to be 'that' guy, you know? I'm probably worrying too much.
Bear in mind that Penny Arcade also made this comic:
The point of which is that NOTHING is exempt from criticism. And as soon as a creator starts saying, "I perceive a certain value in the thing I'm creating that puts it in a category that is exempt from criticism," then they are being ridiculous. I mean, that works if you're just writing or drawing fan fiction for your own amusement and keeping it to yourself, but the instant you start selling it or distributing it in a commercial context, then I'm sorry, but you are not exempt from criticism. That is not a real thing.
So on one hand, creators shouldn't casually dismiss all criticism of their work as just a bunch of perpetually negative nancies gettin' them down. If instant reaction to criticism of work that you released in a commercial context, i.e. FOR public audience consumption and financial gain, is to post the "deal with it" dog gif, then you are potentially being a Kevin Smith.
On the other hand, some people ARE kinda just ungrateful a**holes who find it very hard to say "thank you" and very easy to be all like "well... it could be better... i mean for starters it's not perfect in every way... and for another thing, it only satisfies 80% of the expectations you didn't know I had. You realize that means that you failed me 20%, right? That you're a 20% failure? Let's do an in-depth analysis of that 20% failure to make it feel as much like a 100% failure as we possibly can. I mean, let's really sharpen the failure and stab it into your heart like a dagger. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan, but I just really need to get this dagger into your heart so that you never, ever do this to me again."
There's a way to deliver criticism without being an asshole.
That's my takeaway.
It depends on what your intentions are. Sometimes the intention is to deliver a criticism while DELIBERATELY being kind of an asshole. Penny Arcade do it themselves when they make fun of things they think are ridiculous. A large number of their comics are ridicule-based criticisms.
I didn't feel like the comic was as much a joke about "criticism etiquette" as much as it is a joke about what is essentially a kind of hipsterism or snobbishness that exists in all kinds of art forms. In 2015 it always falls back on hipsters, but you actually see similar egotistical behaviors from the most devout fans of punk rock and metal---i.e. people who are fans of a thing but also hate on their fellow fans of a thing, and who claim to looove [insert creator here] but also talk a lot of shit about them at the same time. Webcomic artists probably used to get (and/or still get) that sort of attitude from certain traditional/non-digital comic artists. Core gamers are very prone to this kind of hipsterism/snobbishness as well.
I feel like it's less about saying that all criticism should try to be nice and is more along the lines of saying that you CAN actually be the hugest #1 fan of something without being a total egotistical douche about it. Your relationship to fellow fans does not have to be a dick-measuring contest, and the fan/creator relationship does not have to involve chaining the creator to your bed and whipping them to keep the gratification coming.
TLDR: I feel like it might be more of an anti-ego comic than an anti-negativity comic. (And a good choice to use Tycho, in that case.)
I think it's entirely possible to like something and overly criticize to the point where you've stopped really appreciating it. But its also possible to criticize something because you love it, and tell the difference between that and criticism that actually represents dislike. See RedLetterMedia. Those guys basically tear down everything, but if there's a movie they liked, in the end they'll say, "it was a good time, I enjoyed it." Whereas when they actually hate something, you can tell. And as they criticize they make sure to explain the difference between criticisms that make them dislike a movie and criticisms that are simply a result of having gotten invested into the movie. This doesn't even just apply to "so bad it's good" movies or "really silly but a fun ride" movies (Pacific Rim and Thor 2 are good examples of that for me). Me and my friends who absolutely love the Lord of the Rings movies and consider them some of the best movies we've seen, have seen them so many times we can tear them apart, MST3K style, but we still love them.
I thought about this when the comic first came out.
I told myself to give it a week before posting this in case my opinion changed.
Nope...still feel the same.
Posts
Pins!
My guess is that dicks are mushroom-looking. I think they were around first.
Hanging around the forums of several creators I like, I completely sympathize with panel two. It's possible to love a creator but also have criticisms or to occasionally NOT like something they do. Those things are not mutually exclusive. And yet at the same time, there are people hanging around some creators' forums----claiming to be "big fans"---who have a post history showing 99/100 posts expressing disappointment in the creator. (The one other post is just a funny gif.) It doesn't occur to them that maybe they don't like this creator after all. Maybe they just like one thing the creator did one time a long time ago.
The last panel is great, because, "I just want [creator] to improve" is the common defense.
What about those that grow on the sides of trees?
TIL: trees have dicks
Also fans of metal. And punk rock.
The dick lookin' one?
You guys, the proper term is glory hole.
What if... What if the Fruit Fucker is on the other side? ;-)
Oh, that reminds me. I meant to start posting my favorite parts from Jerry's news posts on these content update threads. So here was my favorite block from today:
The screw flying into the foreground.
I can't look at that panel and not crack up.
Binkley in his father's room in the middle of the night?
Yeah... negative criticism in moderation is fine. But so many people lack any form of balance when it comes to that sort of thing. I think part of the reason why the skew is like that is prevalence of negative reviews and commentary as entertainment and so forth. Even in praising one thing many people tend to put some other thing down in the process.
As for the "I want them to be better" excuse, it's bonus points when they get offended when you ask them if you even like the thing when they've spent the past few months nitpicking and such.
But eh, human nature.
This is one thing about game culture that I really do find frustrating. It's not as bad as it was a couple of years ago, but for a while there it seemed like you couldn't escape the youtube channels and podcasts that were just "angry gamer rants" and "the angry nerd", and it was always some neckbeard on a petty tirade. The defense of which is always, "Oh but it's just for laughs" and so on, but every one of those things helps shape the aggregate tone of the gaming discourse, and when there is enough of that sort of thing, then the popular way to discuss games is to "rant about them".
Thankfully we have things like Extra Credits now. You know what I really miss, though? BRAINY GAMER.
Michael Abbott was easily, EASIILY, hands down, the #1 best interviewer of industry figures there ever was, and he done went on an eternal hiatus and left a hole in my heart.
*pours out a bottle*
Oh, you just made me sad.
You should check out the Crate & Crowbar podcast if you haven't, Tom Francis & co are very good!
From a fellow Brainy Gamer fan, I will take that rec and check it out.
I dunno. They're a great group of people and some of them like me enough to consider me a friend. I guess that alone should tell me I'm OK. I just want to help because I want them to be successful. They're great people. They deserve it. I just don't want to be 'that' guy, you know?
Bear in mind that Penny Arcade also made this comic:
The point of which is that NOTHING is exempt from criticism. And as soon as a creator starts saying, "I perceive a certain value in the thing I'm creating that puts it in a category that is exempt from criticism," then they are being ridiculous. I mean, that works if you're just writing or drawing fan fiction for your own amusement and keeping it to yourself, but the instant you start selling it or distributing it in a commercial context, then I'm sorry, but you are not exempt from criticism. That is not a real thing.
So on one hand, creators shouldn't casually dismiss all criticism of their work as just a bunch of perpetually negative nancies gettin' them down. If instant reaction to criticism of work that you released in a commercial context, i.e. FOR public audience consumption and financial gain, is to post the "deal with it" dog gif, then you are potentially being a Kevin Smith.
On the other hand, some people ARE kinda just ungrateful a**holes who find it very hard to say "thank you" and very easy to be all like "well... it could be better... i mean for starters it's not perfect in every way... and for another thing, it only satisfies 80% of the expectations you didn't know I had. You realize that means that you failed me 20%, right? That you're a 20% failure? Let's do an in-depth analysis of that 20% failure to make it feel as much like a 100% failure as we possibly can. I mean, let's really sharpen the failure and stab it into your heart like a dagger. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan, but I just really need to get this dagger into your heart so that you never, ever do this to me again."
That's my takeaway.
It depends on what your intentions are. Sometimes the intention is to deliver a criticism while DELIBERATELY being kind of an asshole. Penny Arcade do it themselves when they make fun of things they think are ridiculous. A large number of their comics are ridicule-based criticisms.
I didn't feel like the comic was as much a joke about "criticism etiquette" as much as it is a joke about what is essentially a kind of hipsterism or snobbishness that exists in all kinds of art forms. In 2015 it always falls back on hipsters, but you actually see similar egotistical behaviors from the most devout fans of punk rock and metal---i.e. people who are fans of a thing but also hate on their fellow fans of a thing, and who claim to looove [insert creator here] but also talk a lot of shit about them at the same time. Webcomic artists probably used to get (and/or still get) that sort of attitude from certain traditional/non-digital comic artists. Core gamers are very prone to this kind of hipsterism/snobbishness as well.
I feel like it's less about saying that all criticism should try to be nice and is more along the lines of saying that you CAN actually be the hugest #1 fan of something without being a total egotistical douche about it. Your relationship to fellow fans does not have to be a dick-measuring contest, and the fan/creator relationship does not have to involve chaining the creator to your bed and whipping them to keep the gratification coming.
TLDR: I feel like it might be more of an anti-ego comic than an anti-negativity comic. (And a good choice to use Tycho, in that case.)
Say this about the haters, at least they care/are invested.
Ann Coulter's book selling strategy in a nutshell.
I told myself to give it a week before posting this in case my opinion changed.
Nope...still feel the same.
This comic is unintentionally related to:
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.