It's...fine. It has some good ideas and there are threads to create a bigger overall narrative, but Butcher Jr. has decided to do multiple POV characters and he's just not good enough of a writer to give them each an authentic and genuine feel.
So, everyone ends up feeling samey. It's also a big problem that his most interesting character isn't the protagonist and it's made worse because we get POV from that interesting person and you're left with 'I want to hang out with that person, not this dip!'
Butcher Jr. is also not nearly as good as clearly and concisely describing action.
I am suspicious if he would have been published without ye olde nepotism.
Spoilered problems with it below.
Grimmsby is supposed to be the hero because he has the conviction to act. He isn't the strongest or fastest and not nearly the smartest, but he has the drive to choose to act and help people. That's the whole arc from book one and his he impressed the Huntsman.
Then you spend the first half of book two of him bitching and complaining and being an all around weenie. You retread the same shit as before.
I’m giving him a bit of a handicap, because Jim’s first couple of Dresden Files books were real clunky compared to where he’s at now. But I did find both Juniors books enjoyable.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Like don't get me wrong I fucking love some Dresden up until recently, where he went a little "I, the author, and single again and want to fuck young women" and inserted himself into the last two books.
But yeah it's got the serialized urban fantasy trope of "every new book has a chapter's worth of retelling everyone's story"
are YOU on the beer list?
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Although boring is probably not the right word. All the humans are interesting this time. Some of the humans are even batmans! They don't say because I'm batman though.
It's...fine. It has some good ideas and there are threads to create a bigger overall narrative, but Butcher Jr. has decided to do multiple POV characters and he's just not good enough of a writer to give them each an authentic and genuine feel.
So, everyone ends up feeling samey. It's also a big problem that his most interesting character isn't the protagonist and it's made worse because we get POV from that interesting person and you're left with 'I want to hang out with that person, not this dip!'
Butcher Jr. is also not nearly as good as clearly and concisely describing action.
I am suspicious if he would have been published without ye olde nepotism.
Spoilered problems with it below.
Grimmsby is supposed to be the hero because he has the conviction to act. He isn't the strongest or fastest and not nearly the smartest, but he has the drive to choose to act and help people. That's the whole arc from book one and his he impressed the Huntsman.
Then you spend the first half of book two of him bitching and complaining and being an all around weenie. You retread the same shit as before.
Why are you stating that Butcher jr wrote this? Is it a joke or did you get the information from somewhere? Because I’m looking everywhere and each place I’ve looked places Jim Butcher himself as the writer and also he will be doing the signing for the book and generally you don’t do a book signing for a book you didn’t write. So where is this coming from?
It's...fine. It has some good ideas and there are threads to create a bigger overall narrative, but Butcher Jr. has decided to do multiple POV characters and he's just not good enough of a writer to give them each an authentic and genuine feel.
So, everyone ends up feeling samey. It's also a big problem that his most interesting character isn't the protagonist and it's made worse because we get POV from that interesting person and you're left with 'I want to hang out with that person, not this dip!'
Butcher Jr. is also not nearly as good as clearly and concisely describing action.
I am suspicious if he would have been published without ye olde nepotism.
Spoilered problems with it below.
Grimmsby is supposed to be the hero because he has the conviction to act. He isn't the strongest or fastest and not nearly the smartest, but he has the drive to choose to act and help people. That's the whole arc from book one and his he impressed the Huntsman.
Then you spend the first half of book two of him bitching and complaining and being an all around weenie. You retread the same shit as before.
Why are you stating that Butcher jr wrote this? Is it a joke or did you get the information from somewhere? Because I’m looking everywhere and each place I’ve looked places Jim Butcher himself as the writer and also he will be doing the signing for the book and generally you don’t do a book signing for a book you didn’t write. So where is this coming from?
Don't confuse the current Cinder Spires release with the fact that James J Butcher (Jim's son) is also a published author of 2 (soon to be 3) books.
At that link it specifically shows old Jim Butcher doing the signing for this book. Could you please show me where it says the son wrote this book? I can’t find it anywhere.
At that link it specifically shows old Jim Butcher doing the signing for this book. Could you please show me where it says the son wrote this book? I can’t find it anywhere.
So Jim Butcher wrote Cinder Spires. Full stop nobody is asserting he didn’t.
His Son wrote 2 completely different books, with a 3rd on the way.
AH asked how those books are. We were answering that inquiry.
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
At that link it specifically shows old Jim Butcher doing the signing for this book. Could you please show me where it says the son wrote this book? I can’t find it anywhere.
They're talking about the Unorthodox Chronicles books that James J Butcher has written. There are 2 out now (Dead Man's Hand and Long Past Dues), with a 3rd supposed to hit this fall.
BlackDragon480 on
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
With one of Cinder Spire's main characters being named Grimm, and the other's lead being Grimshaw Grimsby, it's an understandable source of confusion. Particularly when the authors are Jim and James Butcher, respectively.
Come on Butchers, there are plenty of names that you can use.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Jim named his son James J. Maybe names isn’t something they’re very good at.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
At that link it specifically shows old Jim Butcher doing the signing for this book. Could you please show me where it says the son wrote this book? I can’t find it anywhere.
So Jim Butcher wrote Cinder Spires. Full stop nobody is asserting he didn’t.
His Son wrote 2 completely different books, with a 3rd on the way.
AH asked how those books are. We were answering that inquiry.
Ah, thanks! I was confused since the Cinder Spires was mentioned and then someone quoted an older question about the son’s books and I missed that. Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. 🙂
It's...fine. It has some good ideas and there are threads to create a bigger overall narrative, but Butcher Jr. has decided to do multiple POV characters and he's just not good enough of a writer to give them each an authentic and genuine feel.
So, everyone ends up feeling samey. It's also a big problem that his most interesting character isn't the protagonist and it's made worse because we get POV from that interesting person and you're left with 'I want to hang out with that person, not this dip!'
Butcher Jr. is also not nearly as good as clearly and concisely describing action.
I am suspicious if he would have been published without ye olde nepotism.
Spoilered problems with it below.
Grimmsby is supposed to be the hero because he has the conviction to act. He isn't the strongest or fastest and not nearly the smartest, but he has the drive to choose to act and help people. That's the whole arc from book one and his he impressed the Huntsman.
Then you spend the first half of book two of him bitching and complaining and being an all around weenie. You retread the same shit as before.
Why are you stating that Butcher jr wrote this? Is it a joke or did you get the information from somewhere? Because I’m looking everywhere and each place I’ve looked places Jim Butcher himself as the writer and also he will be doing the signing for the book and generally you don’t do a book signing for a book you didn’t write. So where is this coming from?
James J. Butcher is Jim Butcher's son, who wrote the Unorthodox Chronicles. This is what I am discussing in an answer to amateurhour, whose question is quoted in my post.
I refer to James J. Butcher as 'Butcher Jr.' because, well, ironically I thought that would be less confusing than James Butcher (because Jim is shorthand for James).
You are looking at information and the website of Jim Butcher (author of the Dresden Files and The Cinder Spire, father of James J. Butcher).
I re-read my list describing The Unorthodox Chronicles and it's noticable how much of similar between it and the Cinder Spire (protagonist names, multiple POV).
Cinder Spires Book 2: The Olympian Affair was released. I am adding to my library queue instead of buying it as I am doing with all books. But just and FYI for people.
I'm very excited, if I remember a dang thing from the first book other than "I liked it".
Everyone was described as blockish. Everyone. The main characters have to stay a certain distance apart or form a tetris and annihilate.
It's because he mocks up some of his scenes with his MOC*.
MOC is My Own Creation, an acronym used in the LEGO community.
Cinder Spires Book 2: The Olympian Affair was released. I am adding to my library queue instead of buying it as I am doing with all books. But just and FYI for people.
I'm very excited, if I remember a dang thing from the first book other than "I liked it".
Everyone was described as blockish. Everyone. The main characters have to stay a certain distance apart or form a tetris and annihilate.
It's because he mocks up some of his scenes with his MOC*.
MOC is My Own Creation, an acronym used in the LEGO community.
I like to believe that he got onto his kid's Minecraft server where they decided to just build a tower to see how high they could go.
Jim named his son James J. Maybe names isn’t something they’re very good at.
It tracks. I mean, it takes a certain kind of mind to go "Hey, I'll name my wizard after three famous stage magicians and a city in Germany".
And I'm guessing part of that certain kind of mind is the knowledge that they're just not good at names.
I'm just not sure how old Dresden is supposed to be at this point.
He's been detectiving for... 15-16 years by now?
Assuming he started when he was 20, I guess that makes him 35-36.
Which in wizard years makes him like... 11?
According to the man himself he's currently about 40-41, but I think he reads closer to Butcher's actual age of 50-51. His cultural touchstones are Star Trek TOS, Highlander the movie, the Original Trilogy, and a bunch of 70's and 80's era TV.
Also a lot of stuff was drive ins because wizards make tech go boom.
Yeah, I'd say those reference points would actually be really normal for somebody who is now 40 and who hit magic in their teens and then tech things after that blew up. That means his pop culture experience ends in about the 90s and, at that point in time, all of those reference points would been the same as mine. I'm 40 and saw plenty of 70s/80s reruns as a kid, saw pretty much everything Star Trek ToS, and obviously the original Star Wars trilogy was a big deal because it would be years before there was even a rumor of new Star Wars films.
Though at this point, I feel like somebody should've figured out some way for Dresden to use modern tech, particularly given that he's done a bunch of work with rings that deaden magic power. Run a signal to a good wireless router thoroughly ringed-in, do the same for a monitor with a nice big TV screen and have a protected little control spot for a keyboard and mouse. Boom. As long as he stays outside the ring, it all stays protected from him and even the control stuff is at reduced risk because he's mostly outside the ring.
I think that's the running joke, because
as of the most recent books, a lot of other cultures have adapted. It's the stuffy wizards who haven't. Like he's just such a luddite because bad shit happened to him as a yout, and that's where he stayed, media wise
He isn't really of that mindset, though. He's repeatedly been the standout as the wizard with unconventional, sometimes even technological, solutions to magic problems. He's got people in his in-crowd with the technical knowledge to work this stuff out, too. I'm not even an electronics guy and it would be dead easy to figure out, say, the effective range of Dresden's passive "bad luck" that breaks electronics. All you need is a long array of horizontal LED light strips perpendicular to wherever Dresden is standing, point a camera at them from a distance, and record when and where they fail. Boom. Easy-peasy quantitative method to figure out a safe distance for electronics, and it would be pretty cheap to do.
Regardless, it's long past the point where at least Dresden's companions started modernizing things around Dresden.
I suspect Butters has a to-do list about that sort of thing, both because Harry seems to be interested in the magitech solutions he comes up with and also because Butters going to Butters implacably when he gets an idea in his head. It might have fallen down the priority pole since Chicago got trashed and Dresden started distancing himself from people, though.
The part of the modernizing thing that surprises me isn't Dresden as much as Luccio. She's considerably more set in her ways, sure, but she also studies computer science recreationally despite not being able to function around computers. Those two probably aren't on speaking terms given how Battle Ground wrapped up, but it is getting a bit harder to imagine the White Council not at least toying with an R&D division at this point, especially given the cracks in the masquerade.
(Sure, it's the Doyleist reasonings that matter rather than the Watsonian at this point, but still..)
IIRC part of it is also a moving target as to what kinds of technology doesn't get along with magic, and the difference is largely generational. Like way back in the day printing presses used to break down around wizards or whatever. I'm guessing it's some sort of perception becomes reality thing where the regular old science stuff that a person doesn't really understand and so sort of perceives as magic conflicts with actual magic. So the younger generations that grew up around smartphones or studied science and computers and stuff before getting into magic have fewer issues.
I'm just not sure how old Dresden is supposed to be at this point.
He's been detectiving for... 15-16 years by now?
Assuming he started when he was 20, I guess that makes him 35-36.
Which in wizard years makes him like... 11?
According to the man himself he's currently about 40-41, but I think he reads closer to Butcher's actual age of 50-51. His cultural touchstones are Star Trek TOS, Highlander the movie, the Original Trilogy, and a bunch of 70's and 80's era TV.
Also a lot of stuff was drive ins because wizards make tech go boom.
Yeah, I'd say those reference points would actually be really normal for somebody who is now 40 and who hit magic in their teens and then tech things after that blew up. That means his pop culture experience ends in about the 90s and, at that point in time, all of those reference points would been the same as mine. I'm 40 and saw plenty of 70s/80s reruns as a kid, saw pretty much everything Star Trek ToS, and obviously the original Star Wars trilogy was a big deal because it would be years before there was even a rumor of new Star Wars films.
Though at this point, I feel like somebody should've figured out some way for Dresden to use modern tech, particularly given that he's done a bunch of work with rings that deaden magic power. Run a signal to a good wireless router thoroughly ringed-in, do the same for a monitor with a nice big TV screen and have a protected little control spot for a keyboard and mouse. Boom. As long as he stays outside the ring, it all stays protected from him and even the control stuff is at reduced risk because he's mostly outside the ring.
I think that's the running joke, because
as of the most recent books, a lot of other cultures have adapted. It's the stuffy wizards who haven't. Like he's just such a luddite because bad shit happened to him as a yout, and that's where he stayed, media wise
He isn't really of that mindset, though. He's repeatedly been the standout as the wizard with unconventional, sometimes even technological, solutions to magic problems. He's got people in his in-crowd with the technical knowledge to work this stuff out, too. I'm not even an electronics guy and it would be dead easy to figure out, say, the effective range of Dresden's passive "bad luck" that breaks electronics. All you need is a long array of horizontal LED light strips perpendicular to wherever Dresden is standing, point a camera at them from a distance, and record when and where they fail. Boom. Easy-peasy quantitative method to figure out a safe distance for electronics, and it would be pretty cheap to do.
Regardless, it's long past the point where at least Dresden's companions started modernizing things around Dresden.
I suspect Butters has a to-do list about that sort of thing, both because Harry seems to be interested in the magitech solutions he comes up with and also because Butters going to Butters implacably when he gets an idea in his head. It might have fallen down the priority pole since Chicago got trashed and Dresden started distancing himself from people, though.
The part of the modernizing thing that surprises me isn't Dresden as much as Luccio. She's considerably more set in her ways, sure, but she also studies computer science recreationally despite not being able to function around computers. Those two probably aren't on speaking terms given how Battle Ground wrapped up, but it is getting a bit harder to imagine the White Council not at least toying with an R&D division at this point, especially given the cracks in the masquerade.
(Sure, it's the Doyleist reasonings that matter rather than the Watsonian at this point, but still..)
IIRC part of it is also a moving target as to what kinds of technology doesn't get along with magic, and the difference is largely generational. Like way back in the day printing presses used to break down around wizards or whatever. I'm guessing it's some sort of perception becomes reality thing where the regular old science stuff that a person doesn't really understand and so sort of perceives as magic conflicts with actual magic. So the younger generations that grew up around smartphones or studied science and computers and stuff before getting into magic have fewer issues.
In the Dresdenverse it's more of a group perception than an individual, so as technology becomes normalized to society it becomes resistant to magic.
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I feel like the technology thing is shown as more of a laziness to adapt in later books.
there's a few characters that have been shown to be able to operate phones or have appliances in their home.
Having said that I'd take a wood stove and an actual icebox and magical brownies that clean everything and restock the fridge over anything today that connects to the internet, so maybe Butcher was onto something.
There are creatures capable of crafting devices that either are or resemble modern technology that are also resistant to the presence of wizards.
In one of the later books, Molly's association with the Svartalves is mentioned as a possible path to more technology, though I believe Dresden also wonders if it's not a sign that she's losing her humanity as well/instead.
It has been years since I read through though, so I may not be right on the mark with this one. It's more of a vague recollection of lines.
And I do agree, the magic angle isn't played up with 100% accuracy, more of a thing for flair during tense moments or if/when the plot calls it out as important.
Edit: I went to the Wiki, and had forgotten this;
Svartalves look like grey little aliens, although the females are a bit more human-looking, with attractive features and long silver hair; they wear a human disguise much the same way the Red Court Vampires do.
Of course the females are more human looking and attractive. Of course they are, Butcher.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited January 16
In walked Karen, her 4'11 frame had legs for days and tits that could stop a train
Posts
You beat me by minutes.
But yeah it's got the serialized urban fantasy trope of "every new book has a chapter's worth of retelling everyone's story"
3:1
Although boring is probably not the right word. All the humans are interesting this time. Some of the humans are even batmans! They don't say because I'm batman though.
Why are you stating that Butcher jr wrote this? Is it a joke or did you get the information from somewhere? Because I’m looking everywhere and each place I’ve looked places Jim Butcher himself as the writer and also he will be doing the signing for the book and generally you don’t do a book signing for a book you didn’t write. So where is this coming from?
Don't confuse the current Cinder Spires release with the fact that James J Butcher (Jim's son) is also a published author of 2 (soon to be 3) books.
I think that are discussing James J, not Jim.
At that link it specifically shows old Jim Butcher doing the signing for this book. Could you please show me where it says the son wrote this book? I can’t find it anywhere.
His Son wrote 2 completely different books, with a 3rd on the way.
AH asked how those books are. We were answering that inquiry.
They're talking about the Unorthodox Chronicles books that James J Butcher has written. There are 2 out now (Dead Man's Hand and Long Past Dues), with a 3rd supposed to hit this fall.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Come on Butchers, there are plenty of names that you can use.
Ah, thanks! I was confused since the Cinder Spires was mentioned and then someone quoted an older question about the son’s books and I missed that. Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. 🙂
James J. Butcher is Jim Butcher's son, who wrote the Unorthodox Chronicles. This is what I am discussing in an answer to amateurhour, whose question is quoted in my post.
I refer to James J. Butcher as 'Butcher Jr.' because, well, ironically I thought that would be less confusing than James Butcher (because Jim is shorthand for James).
You are looking at information and the website of Jim Butcher (author of the Dresden Files and The Cinder Spire, father of James J. Butcher).
I re-read my list describing The Unorthodox Chronicles and it's noticable how much of similar between it and the Cinder Spire (protagonist names, multiple POV).
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Pepsi from Taco Bell and McDonalds Fries and Chicken Nuggets
It's because he mocks up some of his scenes with his MOC*.
MOC is My Own Creation, an acronym used in the LEGO community.
I like to believe that he got onto his kid's Minecraft server where they decided to just build a tower to see how high they could go.
It tracks. I mean, it takes a certain kind of mind to go "Hey, I'll name my wizard after three famous stage magicians and a city in Germany".
And I'm guessing part of that certain kind of mind is the knowledge that they're just not good at names.
IIRC part of it is also a moving target as to what kinds of technology doesn't get along with magic, and the difference is largely generational. Like way back in the day printing presses used to break down around wizards or whatever. I'm guessing it's some sort of perception becomes reality thing where the regular old science stuff that a person doesn't really understand and so sort of perceives as magic conflicts with actual magic. So the younger generations that grew up around smartphones or studied science and computers and stuff before getting into magic have fewer issues.
In the Dresdenverse it's more of a group perception than an individual, so as technology becomes normalized to society it becomes resistant to magic.
there's a few characters that have been shown to be able to operate phones or have appliances in their home.
Having said that I'd take a wood stove and an actual icebox and magical brownies that clean everything and restock the fridge over anything today that connects to the internet, so maybe Butcher was onto something.
In one of the later books, Molly's association with the Svartalves is mentioned as a possible path to more technology, though I believe Dresden also wonders if it's not a sign that she's losing her humanity as well/instead.
It has been years since I read through though, so I may not be right on the mark with this one. It's more of a vague recollection of lines.
And I do agree, the magic angle isn't played up with 100% accuracy, more of a thing for flair during tense moments or if/when the plot calls it out as important.
Edit: I went to the Wiki, and had forgotten this;
Of course the females are more human looking and attractive. Of course they are, Butcher.
also she was a karate master