...When it comes to Rogues in the DZ in 1.7, our data reveals that the balance is entirely off. 75 percent of player deaths in the DZ are exclusively PVP, and that is something we want to change.
uh... that doesn't surprise me.
Also (from their state of the game reddit entry), based off their analytics people... who have evidently been tracking this since the beginning:
The Data has spoken
They have been monitoring the Dark Zone since launch, investigated the player actions and what was going on.
They also have a big analytic team and while there is a very vocal group of players, there is also a big silent part of the community and they are reflected in the data from the game and the surveys that have been sent out. (70% did not like the Dark Zone as it is)
Based on that data, they decided to introduce Rogue 2.0 - because in the end The Division is a live game and things need to evolve.
75% PVP Death Ratio
Players that die by Rogues / Players that die by normal Players are 75% of all deaths in the Dark Zone
Players that die by NPCs is just 25%
At the moment the Rogues have the advantage and that is also the reason why less players go into the Dark Zone and that is a huge part of the game
The Rogue 2.0 should bring a new balance to the Dark Zone – they want to lower the Rogue advantage, make the fight fairer and improve the experience. This should also bring the players back into the Dark Zone.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
They just noticed now people had a bad time in the Dark Zone? That's odd since the playerbase noticed AT LAUNCH and thus left in droves.
Yeah, I was one of those players. I mean, it's nice that the have the stats but literally anybody who has played the game could have told them that, and it's kinda disheartening that it's taken this long to acknowledge it.
They just noticed now people had a bad time in the Dark Zone? That's odd since the playerbase noticed AT LAUNCH and thus left in droves.
It's something that's seesawed a few times before ending up where it is now. Every now and then they added in some PvE stuff that brought players back in and and could kill players before other players did but eventually players only in there for the pve bits would either lose interest, especially when something like rope cutting that only benefited pvpers was added, or get what they need and avoid the DZ.
yeah, I don't know where they consider their community to be, but the sentiment that the DZ is a "PK gankfest" has been something that I've been reading nearly everywhere I frequent.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
They just noticed now people had a bad time in the Dark Zone? That's odd since the playerbase noticed AT LAUNCH and thus left in droves.
Yeah, I was one of those players. I mean, it's nice that the have the stats but literally anybody who has played the game could have told them that, and it's kinda disheartening that it's taken this long to acknowledge it.
That's because the some of the most influential and senior devs on the team were pretty much (and mostly self-admitted to be) 'PK gankers' themselves. They crafted the original Dark Zone as their 'ideal' PvP zone, ie one with no rules, and attempted to make the entire end-game game-loop about the Dark Zone.
They just noticed now people had a bad time in the Dark Zone? That's odd since the playerbase noticed AT LAUNCH and thus left in droves.
Yeah, I was one of those players. I mean, it's nice that the have the stats but literally anybody who has played the game could have told them that, and it's kinda disheartening that it's taken this long to acknowledge it.
That's because the some of the most influential and senior devs on the team were pretty much (and mostly self-admitted to be) 'PK gankers' themselves. They crafted the original Dark Zone as their 'ideal' PvP zone, ie one with no rules, and attempted to make the entire end-game game-loop about the Dark Zone.
Not their exact words.... but:
"We noticed that people were tanking damage to survive long enough to get their items on the rope so we added an option to let people cut the rope to fix that."
never forget.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I'm definitely coming back to have a looksee, stopped after the last global event thing. Might see about changing things up from D3, who knows.
I've not really had a horrible time in the DZ, but open world PvP (or let's be honest, PvP at all) isn't my bag at all, especially when 9/10 times it's a group of 4 dudes blaring Russian over a hot mic with a TV on in the background.
They just noticed now people had a bad time in the Dark Zone? That's odd since the playerbase noticed AT LAUNCH and thus left in droves.
Yeah, I was one of those players. I mean, it's nice that the have the stats but literally anybody who has played the game could have told them that, and it's kinda disheartening that it's taken this long to acknowledge it.
That's because the some of the most influential and senior devs on the team were pretty much (and mostly self-admitted to be) 'PK gankers' themselves. They crafted the original Dark Zone as their 'ideal' PvP zone, ie one with no rules, and attempted to make the entire end-game game-loop about the Dark Zone.
Sadly, I've attempted twice over the course of the past two months to get my recovery information from Twitch support and haven't gotten past the automated response.
I don't want to make a new twitch account, and my gamertag is tied in with that account that I can't get into and I'm honestly at the point where it's like Twitch can kick rocks or whatever.
Would love to hook my Twitch prime thinger up too. IDK. I also think it's silly to tweet or facebook or instagram or whatever their public facing account to increase the odds of them actually responding, but idk.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Darkzone rope cutting is what killed the DZ for me. I didn't even know it could be done, hadn't read the notes. First time it happened I just noped the fuck out and didn't return.
Darkzone rope cutting is what killed the DZ for me. I didn't even know it could be done, hadn't read the notes. First time it happened I just noped the fuck out and didn't return.
Heh...I never extract stuff from the DZ. I just run around and kill NPCs for XP and DZ monies (which is why I really liked the 4-piece Banshee set).
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
You can just clear landmarks, contaminated sites and supply drops and never have to extract if you don't want to these days.
Though you still need to extract those sweet sealed caches.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Wait you can cut the DZ rope now? Why would they allow that? Also, I guess I should get back into this considering I dropped too much money on this.......
Wait you can cut the DZ rope now? Why would they allow that? Also, I guess I should get back into this considering I dropped too much money on this.......
Because there weren't enough ways to be a griefing asshole already?
On the one hand, it took 10 seconds to cut the rope and would instantly flag you rogue the moment you engaged the rope. But, on the other hand, people could just gear up to eat that kind of damage for 10 seconds and laugh at your futile efforts. So yeah...that just re-incentivized me to never try to solo extract anything (not even that swank scarf that would always drop >.< )
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I do truly love PvP, especially DayZ style stuff. I say this so you know my next statement comes from a place of love and not hate.
In these types of games you should not, in any way, incentivize PvP or to be more accurate killing players. You don't need to. The number of players who will still hunt other players (even if they were penalized for it) is just big enough to make places like the DZ exciting. You want tension in a place like the DZ not full on deathmatches. You should be making a place like the DZ very, very tempting to PvEers. You should reward teamwork. Cause I promise you, you do not need to do anything to encourage PKers. Hell you could literally design a system in which PKers lose XP/levels and there will still be PKers.
Now granted I know things have changed quite a bit of The Division and the DZ is (IMHO) pretty fine now. My statement is more a general piece of advice for games like this as opposed to a direct critique.
In other news, for those who don't have the DLC, all three will be free to play this weekend. The thingy I got said it ran from the 5-10, but it doesn't seem like that is the case. It is called a "free weekend" so I assume this weekend for sure.
It also said the Season Pass will be discounted too.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Guess it's time to reinstall since my interest in D2 fizzled out.
yeah, they didn't even include new achievements with their expansion. so it's like... okay?
Kind of regret vetoing my "let's not buy the season pass" decision come launch because I was able to buy it all at ~40% off via giftcard purchasing and black friday sales stacking.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I enjoyed the DZ during beta, an uneasy truce with players. Going Rogue still had a decent penalty if you get killed while rogue so you didn't see many folks tripping it. Wasnt it shortly after launch they changed the penalty and opened the game up for gank madness?
Hmm, at work so I cant check but with the changes to the DZ (having to manually engage going rogue) I wonder if that means rogues cant cut friendly agents ropes then?
edit - nvm, misunderstood the rogue changes, thought it was more of a pvp flag in mmos, can still gank other players but it wont be as easy to roll up and just start blasting someone.
Aretè on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Oh hey, the three DLCs are now unlocked for those who don't have em. Available to try through the weekend.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
West side piers is an awesome new addition. I must have spent 2-3 hours there yesterday rolling from one random encounter to the next.
Just when I thought I might head back to Camp Clinton another new encounter would pop up and that 'just one more' itch would kick in.
Decided I wanted to try out a 4-strikers 2-tact build last night but even though I have a stash with ~100 different gear pieces I literally only had 2 strikers and 1 tacticians pieces. I easily had 4 alphabridge backpacks alone before I cleaned out my stash...
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
Ahhh...good to know!
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
What's the lead up on it becoming active?
Self-toggle
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
What's the lead up on it becoming active?
Self-toggle
I meant timewise. Instant to a few seconds wont give me enough time to react.
If anybody has gone into the new and improved DZ, is the wording in the patch notes correct? Can you only get ganked by rogues if you flag yourself as being rogue and otherwise cannot be touched by other players?
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
What's the lead up on it becoming active?
Self-toggle
I meant timewise. Instant to a few seconds wont give me enough time to react.
That's a good question. I imagine having somebody run up to you, stop, and just stand there for a couple seconds while rooting for the toggle might be a giveaway that something's up...but is that really going to be enough time to prevent the sudden and inevitable betrayal?
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited December 2017
Good question, honestly I don't even know where the toggle is.
I do know that if someone goes rogue in your group you are given the option to leave group or go rogue too.
edit- Okay found it. Shift-Z and it takes a second or two to activate (not unlike holding F to activate anything else). You also get a 60 second cool down on it and apparently if you don't attack anyone during that 60 seconds it just puts you back to normal.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Posts
uh... that doesn't surprise me.
Also (from their state of the game reddit entry), based off their analytics people... who have evidently been tracking this since the beginning:
Yeah, I was one of those players. I mean, it's nice that the have the stats but literally anybody who has played the game could have told them that, and it's kinda disheartening that it's taken this long to acknowledge it.
It's something that's seesawed a few times before ending up where it is now. Every now and then they added in some PvE stuff that brought players back in and and could kill players before other players did but eventually players only in there for the pve bits would either lose interest, especially when something like rope cutting that only benefited pvpers was added, or get what they need and avoid the DZ.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Here's a chart regarding DZ deaths:
That's because the some of the most influential and senior devs on the team were pretty much (and mostly self-admitted to be) 'PK gankers' themselves. They crafted the original Dark Zone as their 'ideal' PvP zone, ie one with no rules, and attempted to make the entire end-game game-loop about the Dark Zone.
Not their exact words.... but:
"We noticed that people were tanking damage to survive long enough to get their items on the rope so we added an option to let people cut the rope to fix that."
never forget.
I'm definitely coming back to have a looksee, stopped after the last global event thing. Might see about changing things up from D3, who knows.
I've not really had a horrible time in the DZ, but open world PvP (or let's be honest, PvP at all) isn't my bag at all, especially when 9/10 times it's a group of 4 dudes blaring Russian over a hot mic with a TV on in the background.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Still, though...aircraft carrier hype!
Yeah, okay, that explains just about everything.
Watch a 24h stream for 20+ minutes to unlock free skins.
be sure to connect your accounts - http://drops-register.ubi.com/en-US
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I don't want to make a new twitch account, and my gamertag is tied in with that account that I can't get into and I'm honestly at the point where it's like Twitch can kick rocks or whatever.
Would love to hook my Twitch prime thinger up too. IDK. I also think it's silly to tweet or facebook or instagram or whatever their public facing account to increase the odds of them actually responding, but idk.
"the agent needs to toggle their Rogue status before being able to do any damage to friendly agents."
That might actually get me to go back into the DZ (something I haven't done since they nerfed Banshee set).
EDIT - oh snap! I just noticed that the GS is no longer capped at 256. Let the gear grind begin again!
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Heh...I never extract stuff from the DZ. I just run around and kill NPCs for XP and DZ monies (which is why I really liked the 4-piece Banshee set).
Though you still need to extract those sweet sealed caches.
Because there weren't enough ways to be a griefing asshole already?
On the one hand, it took 10 seconds to cut the rope and would instantly flag you rogue the moment you engaged the rope. But, on the other hand, people could just gear up to eat that kind of damage for 10 seconds and laugh at your futile efforts. So yeah...that just re-incentivized me to never try to solo extract anything (not even that swank scarf that would always drop >.< )
In these types of games you should not, in any way, incentivize PvP or to be more accurate killing players. You don't need to. The number of players who will still hunt other players (even if they were penalized for it) is just big enough to make places like the DZ exciting. You want tension in a place like the DZ not full on deathmatches. You should be making a place like the DZ very, very tempting to PvEers. You should reward teamwork. Cause I promise you, you do not need to do anything to encourage PKers. Hell you could literally design a system in which PKers lose XP/levels and there will still be PKers.
Now granted I know things have changed quite a bit of The Division and the DZ is (IMHO) pretty fine now. My statement is more a general piece of advice for games like this as opposed to a direct critique.
In other news, for those who don't have the DLC, all three will be free to play this weekend. The thingy I got said it ran from the 5-10, but it doesn't seem like that is the case. It is called a "free weekend" so I assume this weekend for sure.
It also said the Season Pass will be discounted too.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
kinda in same boat
Kind of regret vetoing my "let's not buy the season pass" decision come launch because I was able to buy it all at ~40% off via giftcard purchasing and black friday sales stacking.
edit - nvm, misunderstood the rogue changes, thought it was more of a pvp flag in mmos, can still gank other players but it wont be as easy to roll up and just start blasting someone.
Just when I thought I might head back to Camp Clinton another new encounter would pop up and that 'just one more' itch would kick in.
Decided I wanted to try out a 4-strikers 2-tact build last night but even though I have a stash with ~100 different gear pieces I literally only had 2 strikers and 1 tacticians pieces. I easily had 4 alphabridge backpacks alone before I cleaned out my stash...
I always loved The Division but I never liked the DZ so I soured on the game quick.
Thats not quite it.
Rogues can only gank you if they flag themselves as rogue beforehand. So you can't be ganked by someone not marked as rogue.
Ahhh...good to know!
brb reinstalling
What's the lead up on it becoming active?
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Self-toggle
I meant timewise. Instant to a few seconds wont give me enough time to react.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
That's a good question. I imagine having somebody run up to you, stop, and just stand there for a couple seconds while rooting for the toggle might be a giveaway that something's up...but is that really going to be enough time to prevent the sudden and inevitable betrayal?
I do know that if someone goes rogue in your group you are given the option to leave group or go rogue too.
edit- Okay found it. Shift-Z and it takes a second or two to activate (not unlike holding F to activate anything else). You also get a 60 second cool down on it and apparently if you don't attack anyone during that 60 seconds it just puts you back to normal.
Again.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious