the base mechanics and the multiplayer of DS2 are easily the best in the series, but the design that went into its levels, enemies, and overall visuals are all by far the weakest in the series, and most of the NPCs are sketched so lightly that they're eminently forgettable. even the pathos at the conclusion of Lucatiel's arc doesn't really feel like it was earned by anything that actually happened in the game.
the DLC amplifies the game's basic strengths but doubles down on its weaknesses. there are massive segments of the DLC areas that are nothing but straight corridors connecting empty rooms, all of which are completely empty of any distinguishing visual elements expect for whatever enemies and items got plopped down there. massive groups of enemy encounters are even more plentiful (not just in the tedious optional areas), and even the basic trash enemies hit like a truck and have HP and resistances stacked up so ludicrously high that builds that worked perfectly fine throughout the entire base game are effectively unplayable in the DLC.
I just... your stamina bar is so small in DS2. Your stamina bar is tiny, adaptability is garbage and there are too many bosses. It feels much more of a slog to me.
Effigies (and humanity) only restore the human appearance. The person is still cursed, and will eventually go hollow regardless.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
If "going hollow" was just the physical aspect then we'd already be hollow after a couple deaths.
I've always interpreted it as a mental thing. Basically that the toll of dying over and over and over without attaining your goal eventually leaves you without your sanity, and you just kind of roam around attacking anything with a shred of humanity as a last ditch effort to regain some semblance of yourself back.
Effigies (and humanity) only restore the human appearance. The person is still cursed, and will eventually go hollow regardless.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
Wouldn't Lucatiel have passed through and had the same run-in? I dunno. Maybe not everyone takes the same way in.
Effigies (and humanity) only restore the human appearance. The person is still cursed, and will eventually go hollow regardless.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
Wouldn't Lucatiel have passed through and had the same run-in? I dunno. Maybe not everyone takes the same way in.
I'm not sure really. The way the player gets into Drangleic is pretty weird, and even as obscure as characters are about stuff I think they'd have mentioned if they fell through a strange whirlpool and landed in a forest. I think they are all native, so to speak, of the area and that the player is the only one from a different place altogether.
Despite the appearance change on death, the player character in these games doesn't go hollow during gameplay. Going hollow involves losing any drive or sense of self, and so the only way the player character goes hollow is if the player stops playing. Either through giving up against a challenge, or by finishing the game with an ending where they aren't immolated (SotFS ending excepted).
a post about lore/story/narrative/etc in dark souls 3
So Dark Souls 3 is the most conflicted I've been about the story in a Souls game. And I'm including Demon's and Bloodborne in that. Cuz on one hand, it's a fun game, I enjoyed myself going through it. But there's all these little details that really...well, leave me conflicted. I've been trying to compose various versions of this post since I got to the final boss and haven't quite ever been satisfied with it, but eventually I either just post what I've got or never say it explicitly.
The way the Dark Souls games are constructed, those that want to dig into the lore play the role of archaeologist. You're piecing together all these minor little discoveries and eventually learning about the past of this world. But the problem with much of DS3 is that it's constantly sidetracked by trying to let you learn about Dark Souls 1. ...I already know what happened in Dark Souls 1. I don't need to be told "Yeah Anor Londo went to shit after DS1" I can clearly see that that would be what would happen. The storytelling of DS1 already informed me.
There's two moments that practically cripple the game's storytelling for me. The first is the reveal of Aldrich. I like a lot of what they did with Aldrich. The way Anri talks about pursuing him, going to the Cathedral and finding only the Deacons, the game creates this subdued sensation that you're chasing after him. This is really cool especially for a Souls because almost universally bosses are just sitting and waiting for you to enter their boss rooms. Yes they might be doing something in their boss room, but basically all of them are just hanging out repeating an action waiting to die. By creating this atmosphere of Aldrich on the prowl they're doing something new and interesting and unique. And then you get to Aldrich and a Dark Souls 1 reference is literally puppeted in front of you. And of course this is after going "oh it's the Silver Archers again. oh it's Gwyndolin's tomb again. Oh it's Anor Londo again. Oh look, these characters died, because a bunch of time passed so of course they did." It felt literally metaphorical.
The second moment was visiting Untended Graves. Digging through this experience of "this is my hub, but not" (which is already a reference to a game that came out last year) and figuring out what's going on...and then the shopkeeper just sells Artorias' armour. Artorias! You know that guy! He's cool! His clothes are cool! Well, no, they're kinda not when they're just randomly sold somewhere. It was incredibly deflating to this ominous moment. And that kinda just feels like the story of DS3 to me over and over. I very rarely feel like they're doing something actually cool with the DS1 references. They barely add anything to DS3 and they certainly don't add anything to DS1. I'll be a butt and single out Wyborn's Smough theory here for a moment. It means nothing. Like it's a completely meaningless factoid if true, something which contributes nothing to any understanding of character motivation or narrative or story. It's just a referential piece of connective tissue that exists for its own sake. And that's how I feel about so many of the references, to the point where they're practically getting in the way of the parts of DS3's story I want to interact with.
Every souls game up until now has let you dig through the geography and history of somewhere completely new. There's the occasional "oh neat this is from X" but as a whole you're dissecting the history of Drangleic or of Yharnam or Boletaria. I'd be willing to believe that Dark Souls 3 is doing it intentionally to form some metaphor about the series being old and tired...but that doesn't make it good.
I repect your point, but I disagree:
Aldrich running away from his cathedral, running away from his home in Irithryll and making his home in the city of the gods so he could eat gods is cool to me. Seeing the giant blacksmith dead, and seeing him devouring Gwyndolin as you meet him made him one of my most hated and simultaneously awesome bosses in the series. Fighting him in the room where you fought O&S was a lovely callback for me.
As for Untended Graves, I won't pretend to know the why, but there's more to Artorias' armor being sold there than just randomness. The hornet ring(Ciaran's) and a bunch of black knights are there too. It wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with Gwynevere, because we know that during her time as queen of Lothric she put the ashen estus ring there and cared about the graves for some reason.
Hell, maybe she's responsible for hiding the firekeeper's eyes there because she doesn't want the truth about what the firekeeper can do with the knowledge they give to come out, ending her father's endless cycles.
Effigies (and humanity) only restore the human appearance. The person is still cursed, and will eventually go hollow regardless.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
Wouldn't Lucatiel have passed through and had the same run-in? I dunno. Maybe not everyone takes the same way in.
I'm not sure really. The way the player gets into Drangleic is pretty weird, and even as obscure as characters are about stuff I think they'd have mentioned if they fell through a strange whirlpool and landed in a forest. I think they are all native, so to speak, of the area and that the player is the only one from a different place altogether.
About that
I'm pretty sure most of the people who tell you about their background can't actually tell you why they're here, because they can't remember how or sometimes even why.
Because they all got brain bamboozled by Shanalotte who needed more undead to keep coming to Drangleic so one of them could get the job done.
I don't think it's all that fair to criticize DS3 as a game that leans too much on what came before, because that's the whole point. DS1 was made with no intent of having a sequel. DS2 was a sequel made that Miyazaki didn't want to make, but it was made, he just let the creative team do their own thing with it so while it carried on themes and underlying stuff with the lord souls, it basically created the cycles and stood on its own too.
DS3 is the definitive end to the Dark Souls world, so it doesn't make any sense that they would've just made it wholly separate from the other 2. They needed to end what they started with DS1. And while it's true that it has more DS1 direct callbacks than DS2, DS2 is quite present in the game too. Just not with anything as obvious as walking back into Anor Londo.
Effigies (and humanity) only restore the human appearance. The person is still cursed, and will eventually go hollow regardless.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
Wouldn't Lucatiel have passed through and had the same run-in? I dunno. Maybe not everyone takes the same way in.
I'm not sure really. The way the player gets into Drangleic is pretty weird, and even as obscure as characters are about stuff I think they'd have mentioned if they fell through a strange whirlpool and landed in a forest. I think they are all native, so to speak, of the area and that the player is the only one from a different place altogether.
About that
I'm pretty sure most of the people who tell you about their background can't actually tell you why they're here, because they can't remember how or sometimes even why.
Because they call got brain bamboozled by Shanalotte who needed more undead to keep coming to Drangleic so one of them could get the job done.
Sure, but they at least know where they are from. I'm going off the assumption that Drangleic is a physical place in the world, as is Mirrah, Catarina, Carim, etc. Even Lordran. Presumably one could walk from one to another, though the reason most people don't go to Drangleic or Lordran anymore is because they are only places for cursed undead now.
That whirlpool thing is something else entirely, though I don't have any idea what.
The whirlpool into Drangleic to me is the same as the Hunter from the distant land in Bloodborne. They just wanted a way to kick off the game with your character not having any prior firsthand knowledge of the world you're about to explore.
My Greataxe is great but some of these quicker bosses will make you hurt for leaving your ass out there that long, and I don't have the range I did on my pyro
I don't necessarily mind all the call backs to dark souls one. Having basically every fan service armor in the game is a bit silly but has already paid off with funny pvp cosplays do that's okay.
The one callback I really liked was in smoldering lakes
When you find the burnt out fair lady
However what I don't like is that because of the way the lore is structured pretty much all the speculation in this entry is around which DS1 character each DS3 character is somehow associated with. That's lame and kind of retroactively makes DS1 lame, because it makes both games seem less cohesive. So who was gwynevere? Oh she was this queen of the gods who left lordran to marry a fire god but then a millenia later she became the Queen of Lothric or maybe a slug mommy.
The whirlpool into Drangleic to me is the same as the Hunter from the distant land in Bloodborne. They just wanted a way to kick off the game with your character not having any prior firsthand knowledge of the world you're about to explore.
The character being mostly hollow at the start already serves that thematic purpose. The whirlpool is a very specific image, as is where you end up after falling through it. Otherwise why not just do the same kind of thing as DS1 where you're some nobody in an asylum. Or DS3 where you're a pile of unkindled ashes.
I think in DS3 it's definitely worth it to carry more than one weapon. My quality build that's working through NG++ to finish trophies I use my Profaned UGS primarily, but I also have a fully upgraded Irithyll Rapier for enemies like thralls or whatever, dogs, and even a couple bosses.
Dragonslayer Armor for example is susceptible to frost, and I can get in more damage on him with the rapier than my UGS. I think I also used my rapier on princes in NG+. Certain enemies definitely benefit from fighting with different weapons. If I was going to keep playing this character past NG++, I'd get a bleed weapon too for certain enemies.
The whirlpool into Drangleic to me is the same as the Hunter from the distant land in Bloodborne. They just wanted a way to kick off the game with your character not having any prior firsthand knowledge of the world you're about to explore.
The character being mostly hollow at the start already serves that thematic purpose. The whirlpool is a very specific image, as is where you end up after falling through it. Otherwise why not just do the same kind of thing as DS1 where you're some nobody in an asylum. Or DS3 where you're a pile of unkindled ashes.
Well we already know Things Betwixt is kind of a place between worlds. Your character in DS2 was all "oh no I'm cursed," falls into a whirlpool, and ends up in Drangleic. It's just the choice they made rather than having you be an undead in a prison or whatever.
I don't necessarily mind all the call backs to dark souls one. Having basically every fan service armor in the game is a bit silly but has already paid off with funny pvp cosplays do that's okay.
The one callback I really liked was in smoldering lakes
When you find the burnt out fair lady
However what I don't like is that because of the way the lore is structured pretty much all the speculation in this entry is around which DS1 character each DS3 character is somehow associated with. That's lame and kind of retroactively makes DS1 lame, because it makes both games seem less cohesive. So who was gwynevere? Oh she was this queen of the gods who left lordran to marry a fire god but then a millenia later she became the Queen of Lothric or maybe a slug mommy.
Thats dumb.
It's easy to point and hoot at this sort of thing, I apologize if I'm contributing to the dialogue that's taking away from the game for you
Personally I think the way this game handles the idea of the cycle, and how the cycle is clearly degrading quickly, is fascinating. I could talk about it for a while
I like a shield and straight sword for general soulsing and a huge smashing device for bosses, I've fully upgraded Smough's hammer for the latter purpose
I don't necessarily mind all the call backs to dark souls one. Having basically every fan service armor in the game is a bit silly but has already paid off with funny pvp cosplays do that's okay.
The one callback I really liked was in smoldering lakes
When you find the burnt out fair lady
However what I don't like is that because of the way the lore is structured pretty much all the speculation in this entry is around which DS1 character each DS3 character is somehow associated with. That's lame and kind of retroactively makes DS1 lame, because it makes both games seem less cohesive. So who was gwynevere? Oh she was this queen of the gods who left lordran to marry a fire god but then a millenia later she became the Queen of Lothric or maybe a slug mommy.
Thats dumb.
It's easy to point and hoot at this sort of thing, I apologize if I'm contributing to the dialogue that's taking away from the game for you
Personally I think the way this game handles the idea of the cycle, and how the cycle is clearly degrading quickly, is fascinating. I could talk about it for a while
No, not at all. I enjoy your speculation.
My beef is not with the fans doing the speculation, my beef is that these are clearly set up to be the Big Questions of DS3.
What frustrates me is that these are clearly the big questions the game is setting us up to ask. Aside from ludledth and untended all the big dangly lore cliffhangers revolve around dark souls 1. And that's not to say that I think dark souls 2 lore is better because it's probably not but setting up the lore puzzle for 3 as a connect the dots to 1 is not really an interesting direction for me.
The whole point of your character is that they manage to endure the cycle of death and resurrection and not be broken by it. There's no fail state except despair at challenges you cannot overcome. They're not special because they're powerful, they're special because they can hold it together long enough to obtain power. That's why everyone else goes crazy and dies.
I'm 100% sure the "players who give up have gone hollow" idea is in the design documents for the first game. Also a good way to motivate people to keep trying when they're discouraged!
Something cool I noticed just now, in the Dragon place:
After you kill the Ancient Wyvern, you get teleported further up. The effect that happens and animation that your character does is the same as when the knights or havel are summoned in by those lizard people to fight you. There's even the same chime sound as you're showing up.
What does that mean? Fuck if I know. Just thought it was neat.
I don't necessarily mind all the call backs to dark souls one. Having basically every fan service armor in the game is a bit silly but has already paid off with funny pvp cosplays do that's okay.
The one callback I really liked was in smoldering lakes
When you find the burnt out fair lady
However what I don't like is that because of the way the lore is structured pretty much all the speculation in this entry is around which DS1 character each DS3 character is somehow associated with. That's lame and kind of retroactively makes DS1 lame, because it makes both games seem less cohesive. So who was gwynevere? Oh she was this queen of the gods who left lordran to marry a fire god but then a millenia later she became the Queen of Lothric or maybe a slug mommy.
Thats dumb.
It's easy to point and hoot at this sort of thing, I apologize if I'm contributing to the dialogue that's taking away from the game for you
Personally I think the way this game handles the idea of the cycle, and how the cycle is clearly degrading quickly, is fascinating. I could talk about it for a while
No, not at all. I enjoy your speculation.
My beef is not with the fans doing the speculation, my beef is that these are clearly set up to be the Big Questions of DS3.
What frustrates me is that these are clearly the big questions the game is setting us up to ask. Aside from ludledth and untended all the big dangly lore cliffhangers revolve around dark souls 1. And that's not to say that I think dark souls 2 lore is better because it's probably not but setting up the lore puzzle for 3 as a connect the dots to 1 is not really an interesting direction for me.
Hmmmm
I don't think that's true
I think that the DS1 hooks are the easiest to latch on to, but the big questions probably come primarily from other sources, like the convergence on Lothric and why the Lords of Cinder are even able to turn away from their duty
The conversation definitely tends toward DS1 links though
Also man I think my starter Long Sword is straight up a better weapon than the Lothric Knight Sword. What the Hell is up with that? LKS could barely scratch the boss of Untended Graves at all
Also man I think my starter Long Sword is straight up a better weapon than the Lothric Knight Sword. What the Hell is up with that? LKS could barely scratch the boss of Untended Graves at all
Long sword has slightly better base damage, but LKS has the better range and moveset imo. I really like the two handed R2 thrust on the LKS.
Also LKS scales more with dex unless you mess with the infusions compared to the Longsword, though they both get B/B scaling at refined +10. They each take off the same amount of stamina per swing too.
Posts
the DLC amplifies the game's basic strengths but doubles down on its weaknesses. there are massive segments of the DLC areas that are nothing but straight corridors connecting empty rooms, all of which are completely empty of any distinguishing visual elements expect for whatever enemies and items got plopped down there. massive groups of enemy encounters are even more plentiful (not just in the tedious optional areas), and even the basic trash enemies hit like a truck and have HP and resistances stacked up so ludicrously high that builds that worked perfectly fine throughout the entire base game are effectively unplayable in the DLC.
Just eat an effigy.
Surely you've picked up a few.
You handed that shit out like candy when we were still getting to know each other.
AND THEY WERE ALL THE SAME IN EVERY DLC.
Just piles of the those fucking goons in different colors. Hated them.
Also the effigy works for the player because at the start the Old Firekeepers explain what it is, and that it's a representation of the character, and that's why it works. When Lucatiel gives you one when you first meet her she has no idea what it is. She probably can't use it.
That's the whole point. That shit ain't just a skin treatment.
I've always interpreted it as a mental thing. Basically that the toll of dying over and over and over without attaining your goal eventually leaves you without your sanity, and you just kind of roam around attacking anything with a shred of humanity as a last ditch effort to regain some semblance of yourself back.
Except for you know who in DS3.
Wouldn't Lucatiel have passed through and had the same run-in? I dunno. Maybe not everyone takes the same way in.
Those hollows were the undead that failed long long ago. No telling how long they held on to themselves, but eventually they give up.
They come back when you die for the same reasons you do, the darksign and the curse. You just haven't broken yet.
I'm not sure really. The way the player gets into Drangleic is pretty weird, and even as obscure as characters are about stuff I think they'd have mentioned if they fell through a strange whirlpool and landed in a forest. I think they are all native, so to speak, of the area and that the player is the only one from a different place altogether.
Being able to play as a character that doesn't look like a barbecued scrotum also helps.
I repect your point, but I disagree:
As for Untended Graves, I won't pretend to know the why, but there's more to Artorias' armor being sold there than just randomness. The hornet ring(Ciaran's) and a bunch of black knights are there too. It wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with Gwynevere, because we know that during her time as queen of Lothric she put the ashen estus ring there and cared about the graves for some reason.
Hell, maybe she's responsible for hiding the firekeeper's eyes there because she doesn't want the truth about what the firekeeper can do with the knowledge they give to come out, ending her father's endless cycles.
About that
Because they all got brain bamboozled by Shanalotte who needed more undead to keep coming to Drangleic so one of them could get the job done.
DS3 is the definitive end to the Dark Souls world, so it doesn't make any sense that they would've just made it wholly separate from the other 2. They needed to end what they started with DS1. And while it's true that it has more DS1 direct callbacks than DS2, DS2 is quite present in the game too. Just not with anything as obvious as walking back into Anor Londo.
Sure, but they at least know where they are from. I'm going off the assumption that Drangleic is a physical place in the world, as is Mirrah, Catarina, Carim, etc. Even Lordran. Presumably one could walk from one to another, though the reason most people don't go to Drangleic or Lordran anymore is because they are only places for cursed undead now.
That whirlpool thing is something else entirely, though I don't have any idea what.
Those giant spider enemies bother me way more than the hand things.
And there are so many of them! In the profaned capital area.
Fuck
My Greataxe is great but some of these quicker bosses will make you hurt for leaving your ass out there that long, and I don't have the range I did on my pyro
The one callback I really liked was in smoldering lakes
However what I don't like is that because of the way the lore is structured pretty much all the speculation in this entry is around which DS1 character each DS3 character is somehow associated with. That's lame and kind of retroactively makes DS1 lame, because it makes both games seem less cohesive. So who was gwynevere? Oh she was this queen of the gods who left lordran to marry a fire god but then a millenia later she became the Queen of Lothric or maybe a slug mommy.
Thats dumb.
https://medium.com/@alascii
The character being mostly hollow at the start already serves that thematic purpose. The whirlpool is a very specific image, as is where you end up after falling through it. Otherwise why not just do the same kind of thing as DS1 where you're some nobody in an asylum. Or DS3 where you're a pile of unkindled ashes.
Dragonslayer Armor for example is susceptible to frost, and I can get in more damage on him with the rapier than my UGS. I think I also used my rapier on princes in NG+. Certain enemies definitely benefit from fighting with different weapons. If I was going to keep playing this character past NG++, I'd get a bleed weapon too for certain enemies.
Well we already know Things Betwixt is kind of a place between worlds. Your character in DS2 was all "oh no I'm cursed," falls into a whirlpool, and ends up in Drangleic. It's just the choice they made rather than having you be an undead in a prison or whatever.
It's easy to point and hoot at this sort of thing, I apologize if I'm contributing to the dialogue that's taking away from the game for you
Personally I think the way this game handles the idea of the cycle, and how the cycle is clearly degrading quickly, is fascinating. I could talk about it for a while
No, not at all. I enjoy your speculation.
My beef is not with the fans doing the speculation, my beef is that these are clearly set up to be the Big Questions of DS3.
What frustrates me is that these are clearly the big questions the game is setting us up to ask. Aside from ludledth and untended all the big dangly lore cliffhangers revolve around dark souls 1. And that's not to say that I think dark souls 2 lore is better because it's probably not but setting up the lore puzzle for 3 as a connect the dots to 1 is not really an interesting direction for me.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I'm 100% sure the "players who give up have gone hollow" idea is in the design documents for the first game. Also a good way to motivate people to keep trying when they're discouraged!
What does that mean? Fuck if I know. Just thought it was neat.
Hmmmm
I don't think that's true
I think that the DS1 hooks are the easiest to latch on to, but the big questions probably come primarily from other sources, like the convergence on Lothric and why the Lords of Cinder are even able to turn away from their duty
The conversation definitely tends toward DS1 links though
Long sword has slightly better base damage, but LKS has the better range and moveset imo. I really like the two handed R2 thrust on the LKS.
Also LKS scales more with dex unless you mess with the infusions compared to the Longsword, though they both get B/B scaling at refined +10. They each take off the same amount of stamina per swing too.
Yeah, it's past Dancer.
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You need to kill Kirk three times before you find his corpse
I want to play around with some of these other damage types, but it doesn't look like the numbers are there for me to bother.
Dark Spirit deaths don't count.
And his dead body isn't close to anywhere you fought him.