Wheat ale

Drez

Probably not a good idea to get into a philosophical debate with a bartender at a place I plan to frequent but this bartender is telling me that Sam Summer Ale is an "ale" so it isn't a wheat beer.

I'm not sure how to respond to this without being condescending. Any advice?

edit: She is adamant that it is not a wheat beer because it is referred to as an ale.

Darkewolfe

Ale is beer. Lager is beer. Beer is a large category, ale is a subcategory.

It's technically a pale wheat ale, so would definitely be a "wheat beer," though I guess someone could argue that unless it's a true hefe weizen it's not a wheat beer? It's a wheat beer though.

tynic

Break out an enthusiastic history of Weizen complete with maps and little figurines?

dispatch.o

So as I always understood it ale and lager are both types of beer? I don't know how to not sound condescending saying something like that though. How good is your relationship with the bartender? Is there some way you can politely correct her while conceding that the terminology is strange. Is there a possible way of leaving her an out to say, "oh, yeah.. it is strange! I guess you're technically right."

Or you could drop it and accept she will not admit she is incorrect and not discuss the matter anymore. I'd probably do that. It's probably not worth making a place you like going awkward.

Drez

I decided to just leave.

DarkPrimus

Drez wrote: »

I decided to just leave.

Best course of action. The best bartenders are ones who always agree with you, or at least nod and say "Yeah, that sucks, man."

Drez

Really weird situation.

Gabriel_Pitt

Drez wrote: »

I decided to just leave.

Probably for the best, because on my list of things that actually matter enough in life to be right about, to the point you're going to the internet to go, 'see?' arguing over beer doesn't even warrent an entry.

bsjezz

i mean, a cursory look on wikipedia will tell you that 'wheat beer' is brewed with a large proportion of wheat relative to the barley malt. if you expanded the wheat beer category out to "all beers with some wheat in them" you'd end up with a meaningless label. it is true that wheat beers are brewed with top-fermenting yeasts like ales, but the particular strains these days are probably distinct enough that they aren't really the same as ale yeasts.

sam adams describes it as "an american pale wheat ale," and that's what it is. "wheat beer" is a technical category and from a cursory look at clone recipes it doesn't really fulfil the criteria... which is probably why it doesn't say "an american wheat beer" on the label.

edit: looking at the bjcp guidelines there is an american wheat beer category: indeed it has a relatively lower proportion of wheat to barley (between half and a third), which the sam adams beer might squidge into. so i stand corrected! however, there's no need for condescension about the bartender's understanding of the category. she was using the traditional one.

Darkewolfe

Quick, someone call the reinheitsgebot. "Traditional" understanding of the category only excludes American styles if you stopped paying attention a century ago.

Also, her argument is freaked around ales not being beers, which is fundamentally wrong. Even a proper hefe weizen is an ale.

Djeet

Historically, ales are top fermenters and lagers are bottom fermenters. But it's more complicated than that as it has more to do with yeast type and temperature. You can homebrew an ale in central Texas in the middle of summer using an evaporative cooler setup, but to lager then and there you'd need refrigeration. To me a wheat beer is a wheat beer because of the yeast type; they taste pretty yeasty too in general be they hefe's or Belgian whites. Yes, you can have a wheat ale; I've no idea why she'd take the position she has.


Also, the naming convention for beers is often informed by state statutes that are completely arbitrary and have nothing to do with the brewing process of the beer in question.

Dirtmuncher

Wheat beer has been brewed with 40-60% malted or unmalted wheat. Otherwise it's just some beer with wheat.
https://www.samueladams.com/craft-beers/summer-ale
They also call it American wheat ale themselves so Yeah a wheat beer.

JebusUD

Djeet wrote: »

Historically, ales are top fermenters and lagers are bottom fermenters. But it's more complicated than that as it has more to do with yeast type and temperature. You can homebrew an ale in central Texas in the middle of summer using an evaporative cooler setup, but to lager then and there you'd need refrigeration. To me a wheat beer is a wheat beer because of the yeast type; they taste pretty yeasty too in general be they hefe's or Belgian whites. Yes, you can have a wheat ale; I've no idea why she'd take the position she has.


Also, the naming convention for beers is often informed by state statutes that are completely arbitrary and have nothing to do with the brewing process of the beer in question.

You can also brew a lager at ale temperatures making it a "steam beer"

Iruka

it seems like this is resolved.