So much hate on the harbor change, 2 games in on this new patch and I actually find myself building a few harbors early now, instead of spamming them mid to late game for nothing else but a trade route. Trade route nerf, harbor buff I say!
Also, Australia is a blast to play, maybe way too strong depending on your start, but a blast to play nonetheless! Reminds me a bit of the old Shoshone early game with their pasture culture bombs and early aggressive expansions. Expand aggressively towards your neighbor and wait for the inevitable DoW! This time instead of proxy general spamming them you build a wave of units then put the remaining high production turns towards infrastructure for a nice boost to that early game.
You actually have a reason to build them early game now as they offer more uniqueness then before. It pays to make the choice between Harbor or Commercial in your coastal cities, where as before there was no choice. Also the fact that production/food is harder to come by now due to decreased trade route capacity, both things that harbor buildings offer that commercial buildings do not (fairly large buff in the grand scheme of balance).
New Australia Scenario is super rad. It is so relaxing to not worry about barbarians and crazy AI shenanigans. It provides a clear challenge and a lot of tweaks from a regular game! I like it a lot more than the Poland scenario (which was just all the fighting all the time) and can see myself playing it recreationally every now and again.
People running AI only battles have stated that the AI is indeed better at war now, however the improvements are probably smaller then most people hoped, but there are indeed improvements.
Australia scenario is probably the first scenario I actually enjoy! The focus on pure economics is a really nice change of pace.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I noticed a nice "quality of life" improvement when playing last night. If you set a unit to fortify and change your mind, you can still move it. Fortify doesn't end that unit's turn anymore.
Seems a lot more map/civ dependent now, hard to say. I have found myself building a much more diverse set of districts post patch. Industrial was king, then commercial, now it might actually be balanced?
Been trying the 6 leaf clover map. It's...interesting. Kind of takes the exploration part of the game out though, plus it feels more like you're playing a game of Starcraft with walling off base ramp entrances. I guess it makes naval power more valuable when you have narrow land chokepoints?
One thing is that it's considered a balanced setup for multiplayer, but in practice that's not really the case. The city states that are "assigned" to you (scripted to start at islands between players) hugely affect the game. Players with science, culture, or military states are much much better for getting a head start than people stuck with financial or religious states.
I'm curious how multiplayer games work out. I can't imagine religion to ever be worth it, and religious victories impossible since you just declare war the instant anyone tries to make a serious missionary push on you. I also can't imagine a space race victory happening since humans will kamikaze the (insanely expensive) space port of anyone threatening to win. Not that past civ multiplayer games ever lasted to the modern era (or even the industrial), but religion victories are possible that early against an AI.
I'm picturing multiplayer games to be military affairs that are all about upgrade timing. You build a bunch of cheap ancient units then mass upgrade them the instant you hit a new tech and rush (slingers->archers, archers->crossbow, warriors->sword) with a great general to give the 3 movement to melee allowing them to overrun ranged units. The tech gaps and math puts a huge disparity between military tech generations, and upgrading old units is way too cheap right now. Hitting the next military tech even 2 turns later than a neighbor can spell disaster.
They are indeed mostly military affairs, but the other aspects of the game certainly come in to play pretty heavily early/mid game, it will almost always be a domination victory that takes the day though. For example Gorgo is usually banned out in MP games since she is able to snowball culture hard and get corps/armies much much quicker. Also there is almost always a rush for Defenders of the Faith and the Crusade beliefs in MP as those have a very large effect on battles (Rome w/ Crusade and America w/Defenders being the strongest contenders for rushing these beliefs).
For the most part you are fairly spot on though, its all about the timing attacks and making sure your army strength is up to par, ceding map control is suicide long term. Horse units are a LOT more popular in MP, especially for players that are not able to corner the Great General market. Lots of horses, lots of ranged, very little stock melee.
MP games are usually decided by the end of medieval even if they take a bit longer to wrap up, in a very close game you might see someone field a cavalry swarm but not often. Knights/Crossbowmen being the staple civ mp units for as long as I can remember now. Often times archers are skipped altogether, its all about upgrading those slingers straight to crossbows, though I think with the new tech tree this is a bit harder to pull off logistically as 2-3 horses are usually needed to protect settlers and/or harass.
The fact that domination victories are so common in multiplayer might be a sign that cities are a little too easy to take.
I don't think I've been in a game where a holy victory was even a remote possibility. It's just so hard to keep everyone converted, especially when if the enemy wants to they can just declare and then tank your holy units down, and you lose conversion points if they're in range of cities (unless you talent against it).
Culture isn't out of the question, but it's pretty obvious when someone is going for it, and unless you have people between you and the guy going for domination victory, you'll probably be wiped out before culture can win. It doesn't help that the numbers that count towards culture win are still so hidden.
They fixed (I think, haven't tried science win in a while) the production required for science victory recently didn't they? But it still really really helps to get the Great people to boost that.
Domination just works so well cause you hinder everyone else, you're going to be building military anyway, so why not build a few more and harass?
UnluckyThat's not meant to happenRegistered Userregular
I have sunk over 300 hours into Civs 5 + expansions. Tell me veterans of 6, is it worth upgrading yet and how many things are worse? I've seen plenty of decent hype for the game so want the other side of the equation.
it's worth ugprading; the default 6 experience is much better than was the default 5. The only thing that's really worse is the AI which is somehow even dumber than it was 5, but it was already really dumb soooo
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I think the AI is the same as 5, but the system got more complex and it couldn't keep up. The movement rules alone screw it (the ai STILL doesn't know that siege can't move and shoot) and with districts the economy requires more planning which the AI was only able to handle in the old system of unlimited buildings within the city center.
I have sunk over 300 hours into Civs 5 + expansions. Tell me veterans of 6, is it worth upgrading yet and how many things are worse? I've seen plenty of decent hype for the game so want the other side of the equation.
It has some nice changes and advances the gameplay in some areas but I wouldn't rush to buy it immediately. It'll likely see some heavy discounting in the next round of sales or when the new expansion hits.
Game I'm playing on the 6 leaf clover map right now I decided very early on at the pantheon forming that I would go for a religious victory even though I wasn't playing a religious civ (France). I have five stone resources in my starting area so taking Stone Circles belief had me at +10 faith/turn before anyone could even build holy sites.
Problem was Peter of Russia was one of the AIs and was spamming tons of units. Normally I'd declare war but he also just got a fuckton of Cossacks (like 8) that my musketmen, pikemen, and crossbows couldn't really touch. I wasn't afraid of cities being captured, but he could have done a ton of holy site razing and I didn't want that setback.
So I was being ground down by his missionaries and couldn't declare war. What to do? While inquisitors "defended", I ended up putting some apostles/missionaries on boats, sailing them all the way around the continent, and landing them behind the lines near his capital and blitz converting his 4 holy site cities. Boom! He could no longer produce units of his religion no matter how much faith he had.
But yeah the gaps in military tech really needs to be fixed. Going up 20 points each generation is crazy in a system where +10 makes you twice as strong, especially coupled with how ridiculously cheap and easy it is to upgrade units. The above game I mentioned, I went from barely being able to scratch cossacks with crossbows straight to slaughtering them the instant I advanced one step to field artillery.
Even cutting the generation jumps to +10 would help. Ideally they'd spread it out enough for +5 differences and have incremental versions of the existing units: 17th century muskets->18th century muskets->19th century rifled muskets.
Have they fixed how out of sync culture and science feels? I recall playing in October, and it felt like my Science was rocketing forward and I had industrialism - and it felt like my culture was on par gamewise, but thematically they did not match at all.
But yeah the gaps in military tech really needs to be fixed. Going up 20 points each generation is crazy in a system where +10 makes you twice as strong, especially coupled with how ridiculously cheap and easy it is to upgrade units. The above game I mentioned, I went from barely being able to scratch cossacks with crossbows straight to slaughtering them the instant I advanced one step to field artillery.
Even cutting the generation jumps to +10 would help. Ideally they'd spread it out enough for +5 differences and have incremental versions of the existing units: 17th century muskets->18th century muskets->19th century rifled muskets.
Aww jeez, I spend little enough time with the late-game military units as it is! More than once I've finished Tank research, built a Tank, and then immediately upgraded because I'd already completed the next tier of research. Same for any air unit ever. If you start filling in more gaps I'm going to have to take breaks with invasion forces mid-invasion.
Hey an AI took a walled AI capital! Good job, AI! Now fix the fucking graphics bug you introduced, Firaxis.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I have the following games as part of a Humble Bundle and am happy to give them away. Please PM me for the code if you'd like any or all of them. Again - I won't check the thread regularly, so your request will 100% be missed if you just respond here and don't PM me.
Sid Meier's Civilization III Complete
Sid Meier's Civilization IV: The Complete Edition
Sid Meier's Civilization V: Brave New World
Sid Meier's Civilization V - Gods and Kings
Sid Meier's Civilization V
Sid Meier's Civilization V DLC (No idea what this is, but that's all it is called. It's probably some map/civ packs or something.)
I have the following games as part of a Humble Bundle and am happy to give them away. Please PM me for the code if you'd like any or all of them. Again - I won't check the thread regularly, so your request will 100% be missed if you just respond here and don't PM me.
Sid Meier's Civilization III Complete
Sid Meier's Civilization IV: The Complete Edition
Sid Meier's Civilization V: Brave New World
Sid Meier's Civilization V - Gods and Kings
Sid Meier's Civilization V
Sid Meier's Civilization V DLC (No idea what this is, but that's all it is called. It's probably some map/civ packs or something.)
I also have a Civ 5 base gift that I acquired somewhere along the way in some bundle, and I have no need for it. Free to a good home (you're on your own for the DLCs :P ).
Fall of Babylon: Declaring a Surprise War grants all units extra movement points. Surprise War declarations generate fewer warmonger penalties than normal. Satrapies: Researching Political Philosophy increases trade route capacity by 1 and grants a free Trader unit. Internal trade routes generate more yields. Pairidaeza: Improvement that generates culture and gold. Improves the appeal of adjacent tiles. Bonus yields for adjacent districts. Yields increase in later eras. Immortal: Replaces Swordsman. Has a ranged attack, but isn't weak when defending like ranged units usually are.
Posts
Also, Australia is a blast to play, maybe way too strong depending on your start, but a blast to play nonetheless! Reminds me a bit of the old Shoshone early game with their pasture culture bombs and early aggressive expansions. Expand aggressively towards your neighbor and wait for the inevitable DoW! This time instead of proxy general spamming them you build a wave of units then put the remaining high production turns towards infrastructure for a nice boost to that early game.
Australia scenario is probably the first scenario I actually enjoy! The focus on pure economics is a really nice change of pace.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
One thing is that it's considered a balanced setup for multiplayer, but in practice that's not really the case. The city states that are "assigned" to you (scripted to start at islands between players) hugely affect the game. Players with science, culture, or military states are much much better for getting a head start than people stuck with financial or religious states.
I'm curious how multiplayer games work out. I can't imagine religion to ever be worth it, and religious victories impossible since you just declare war the instant anyone tries to make a serious missionary push on you. I also can't imagine a space race victory happening since humans will kamikaze the (insanely expensive) space port of anyone threatening to win. Not that past civ multiplayer games ever lasted to the modern era (or even the industrial), but religion victories are possible that early against an AI.
I'm picturing multiplayer games to be military affairs that are all about upgrade timing. You build a bunch of cheap ancient units then mass upgrade them the instant you hit a new tech and rush (slingers->archers, archers->crossbow, warriors->sword) with a great general to give the 3 movement to melee allowing them to overrun ranged units. The tech gaps and math puts a huge disparity between military tech generations, and upgrading old units is way too cheap right now. Hitting the next military tech even 2 turns later than a neighbor can spell disaster.
For the most part you are fairly spot on though, its all about the timing attacks and making sure your army strength is up to par, ceding map control is suicide long term. Horse units are a LOT more popular in MP, especially for players that are not able to corner the Great General market. Lots of horses, lots of ranged, very little stock melee.
MP games are usually decided by the end of medieval even if they take a bit longer to wrap up, in a very close game you might see someone field a cavalry swarm but not often. Knights/Crossbowmen being the staple civ mp units for as long as I can remember now. Often times archers are skipped altogether, its all about upgrading those slingers straight to crossbows, though I think with the new tech tree this is a bit harder to pull off logistically as 2-3 horses are usually needed to protect settlers and/or harass.
I don't think I've been in a game where a holy victory was even a remote possibility. It's just so hard to keep everyone converted, especially when if the enemy wants to they can just declare and then tank your holy units down, and you lose conversion points if they're in range of cities (unless you talent against it).
Culture isn't out of the question, but it's pretty obvious when someone is going for it, and unless you have people between you and the guy going for domination victory, you'll probably be wiped out before culture can win. It doesn't help that the numbers that count towards culture win are still so hidden.
They fixed (I think, haven't tried science win in a while) the production required for science victory recently didn't they? But it still really really helps to get the Great people to boost that.
Domination just works so well cause you hinder everyone else, you're going to be building military anyway, so why not build a few more and harass?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It has some nice changes and advances the gameplay in some areas but I wouldn't rush to buy it immediately. It'll likely see some heavy discounting in the next round of sales or when the new expansion hits.
One....
Ouch. About the time I start hitting guilds I make an effort to check the scores every few turns, just to avoid that fate.
Declare war and murder all their missionaries and apostles.
Burn their cities, hear the lamentations of their women.
Problem was Peter of Russia was one of the AIs and was spamming tons of units. Normally I'd declare war but he also just got a fuckton of Cossacks (like 8) that my musketmen, pikemen, and crossbows couldn't really touch. I wasn't afraid of cities being captured, but he could have done a ton of holy site razing and I didn't want that setback.
So I was being ground down by his missionaries and couldn't declare war. What to do? While inquisitors "defended", I ended up putting some apostles/missionaries on boats, sailing them all the way around the continent, and landing them behind the lines near his capital and blitz converting his 4 holy site cities. Boom! He could no longer produce units of his religion no matter how much faith he had.
Surprise amphibious religion decapitation strike
Even cutting the generation jumps to +10 would help. Ideally they'd spread it out enough for +5 differences and have incremental versions of the existing units: 17th century muskets->18th century muskets->19th century rifled muskets.
Aww jeez, I spend little enough time with the late-game military units as it is! More than once I've finished Tank research, built a Tank, and then immediately upgraded because I'd already completed the next tier of research. Same for any air unit ever. If you start filling in more gaps I'm going to have to take breaks with invasion forces mid-invasion.
Sid Meier's Civilization III Complete
Sid Meier's Civilization IV: The Complete Edition
Sid Meier's Civilization V: Brave New World
Sid Meier's Civilization V - Gods and Kings
Sid Meier's Civilization V
Sid Meier's Civilization V DLC (No idea what this is, but that's all it is called. It's probably some map/civ packs or something.)
Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth Exoplanets Map Pack
Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth
I also have a Civ 5 base gift that I acquired somewhere along the way in some bundle, and I have no need for it. Free to a good home (you're on your own for the DLCs :P ).
Econ slots for days.
I got Ayn Rand.
All my mines and oil wells exploded
I can't seem to get around it on this save, which is....frustrating.
Fall of Babylon: Declaring a Surprise War grants all units extra movement points. Surprise War declarations generate fewer warmonger penalties than normal.
Satrapies: Researching Political Philosophy increases trade route capacity by 1 and grants a free Trader unit. Internal trade routes generate more yields.
Pairidaeza: Improvement that generates culture and gold. Improves the appeal of adjacent tiles. Bonus yields for adjacent districts. Yields increase in later eras.
Immortal: Replaces Swordsman. Has a ranged attack, but isn't weak when defending like ranged units usually are.
This civ seems pretty crazy good.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I think Rome just got knocked out as the Culture Victory king.
I don't know if the Persians are known for their graphics know-how. Heyoo!
But yeah, the Persia civ might get me to give civ6 a whirl again, it looks really good as a cultural civ.