Only 'Mr kill or be killed' openly pushes for killing people in Undertale. This is the only way of getting SLs here.
And once he gets half a chance, that character kills every single person he can.
Your wincon might not be explicitly anti-village, but I betting the outcome of you achieving it is .
Like, if there are lots of strong monsters alive at the end of the game, everyone magically loses? What? The only way this makes sense is if you are accusing me of lying. Except, the one big thing I've been doing behind the scenes all game is talking to the (mostly already present) hit squads and trying to have the levelups spread around, and occasionally getting other villagers involved to try to get them the levelups
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2016
premium, the problem with your reasoning is the difference between "remove all threats to the underground" and "remove all threats to peace". The former is served by monsters killing others to get stronger, but the latter isn't necessarily. Villager monsters' win condition is the latter.
Edit to add: If we kill threats out of necessity, we're okay, but there may be a ceiling to how much of that before we've gone too far (the ceiling quite possibly being your win condition). I'm not advocating pacifism, but trying to articulate why there might be reason for us to have concerns about whether we can mutually win with you.
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2016
So, this is a bit of a distraction though. Does anyone have anything they think might point to who's a human, just in case their win condition is the traditional gain a majority? I'm beginning to think it might not be, but we shouldn't risk stumbling into a mafia victory because we were chasing specials.
MegafrostLeader of the DecepticonsRegistered Userregular
I've known about Premium's supposed VC almost since subbing in. The VC is weird, but his behavior doesn't strike me as mafia seeing as he's been actively working behind scenes and organizing. I also believe Fry to be village since he's active and vocal, but most importantly acting a bit antagonistic toward my mason buddy. I have trouble believing a mafia would do that brazenly.
For the most part my suspicions are leaning Discrider and Lostninja. Can't quite pin it, but both have been relatively low profile in the main thread while remaining active, and I almost get a feel of them bringing in info that seems useful but really just distracts or disorients the village.
Discrider for now as a placeholder, but I'd really like to look back and figure out if there's a better vote.
That is an out there win condition to invent. If Premium did that, he deserves to win.
Buh? No one is saying that. Re-read that discussion. No one is saying he's a mafia making up the win condition, we were discussing the possibility that his win condition might preclude the village's.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
Fry on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Also, I feel like discrider and LostNinja have been posting pretty steadily throughout the thread, the former with speculation and analysis based on the phalla's source game.
Teucrian cause I have to vote four somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm looking at his vote history now.
Seems like he didn't vote when Ardor was up for the vote, and didn't switch off Austin the day he revealed as nethead.
So there's that.
WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Looking at that vote history, here are my thoughts, in order:
1) I cannot believe that there were zero mafia on the vote leader. Just...the odds against seem high.
2) I don't think premium is mafia. I don't necessarily trust him, but I don't think he's a human.
3) I vaguely remember seeing some posts from Teucrian that pinged my radar as a bit performative. Overtly handwringing, etc.
4) That doesn't clear J4P, but it does tip my scales against him for the moment. He hasn't done anything particularly suspicious, IMHO.
Teucrian
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Teucrian cause I have to vote four somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm looking at his vote history now.
Seems like he didn't vote when Ardor was up for the vote, and didn't switch off Austin the day he revealed as nethead.
So there's that.
To be clear, the Ardor vote was while enlightenedbum (Teucrian's predecessor) was still playing, but this is substantially correct.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
Are you serious? This is not the time for some vague hunches. I believe Austin was networked with the seer. I believe that Megafrost and Preda are village aligned masons. Maybe that's not true, but it's the read I feel the village has to go with. Given that, it would be downright irresponsible to throw out a vote on someone I had a "feeling" about.
And as for "Nobody said Premium is making up his VC". . . well when you accuse him of lying about it, that's exactly what you're doing. Now I get that you're saying something more shaded than this, that he subtly elided an element of his VC in order to deceive us. . . even so it's ridiculous. Maybe he did! But what can we do? We either trust or we don't trust, and there is no room for hedging.
Also Teucrian's post history over last couple of days has been abysmal.
Only a couple of votes with no reasoning beyond 'iunno' and wailing about not being able to find mafia.
So. I'm pretty happy with that vote, even though I just made it in retaliation originally.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
Are you serious? This is not the time for some vague hunches. I believe Austin was networked with the seer. I believe that Megafrost and Preda are village aligned masons. Maybe that's not true, but it's the read I feel the village has to go with. Given that, it would be downright irresponsible to throw out a vote on someone I had a "feeling" about.
I think I'm in agreement with you regarding the severity of the situation, why are you quoting me and asking "are you serious?" I am asking LostNinja why he is voting based on less than even a vague hunch.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
Are you serious? This is not the time for some vague hunches. I believe Austin was networked with the seer. I believe that Megafrost and Preda are village aligned masons. Maybe that's not true, but it's the read I feel the village has to go with. Given that, it would be downright irresponsible to throw out a vote on someone I had a "feeling" about.
And as for "Nobody said Premium is making up his VC". . . well when you accuse him of lying about it, that's exactly what you're doing. Now I get that you're saying something more shaded than this, that he subtly elided an element of his VC in order to deceive us. . . even so it's ridiculous. Maybe he did! But what can we do? We either trust or we don't trust, and there is no room for hedging.
Ok fine!
I'll ignore all my game knowledge!
I'll ignore the fact that I've been expecting an SK to rear their ugly head all game because of their central place in the game!
Premium is totally fine now, and if we lose to a threat to the peace that we didn't eliminate, then I guess that's just bad luck!
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
Are you serious? This is not the time for some vague hunches. I believe Austin was networked with the seer. I believe that Megafrost and Preda are village aligned masons. Maybe that's not true, but it's the read I feel the village has to go with. Given that, it would be downright irresponsible to throw out a vote on someone I had a "feeling" about.
I think I'm in agreement with you regarding the seriousness of the situation, why are you quoting me and asking "are you serious?" I am asking LostNinja why he is voting based on less than even a vague hunch.
Cause I can't read.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2016
Edit: nevermind, you caught the misplaced discrider vote. Just add WACriminal's vote for Teucrian (#10) and it's all good.
I'm going to vote Teucrian because it just seems impossible that there would be a 10 train on a villager (Brody) D3 and there would be literally no mafia on it. And I am currently believing premium's story about being neutral.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm pretty sure it's clear at this point none of our mafia reads have been shit. So yeah I'm going to go with one of the ones I'm not getting a distinct village vibe off of.
By the way, you really need to work on this whole antagonistic shtick you do. At the end of the day this is a game and it's not fun to play with.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm pretty sure it's clear at this point none of our mafia reads have been shit. So yeah I'm going to go with one of the ones I'm not getting a distinct village vibe off of.
OK, let me flip that around, then: who are you getting a distinct village vibe off of?
Ok. . . I got frustrated there. But I owe it to the village to try and explain what I meant here.
I felt like I had a binary choice between discrider and premium. This is what I meant by not throwing out a vote on someone who I have a feeling about. It only makes sense to me to vote on one of the two major wagons, if we are too spread out it is too easy to manipulate at this point. Since I am almost entirely reliant on information that's in the thread, I don't think I am the right person to come up with another vote target.
Naturally this became a referendum on premium, about whom I had relatively more information. So the question was-- Is premium a threat to the village win condition, or is he simply what he says he is. The conclusion I reached was that I didn't think he was likely to make up that victory condition, and given that victory condition it didn't seem likely that he would be a threat. Again, this could be wrong, but my conclusion was otherwise.
That naturally leads to voting for discrider. I have no real opinion on whether he "reads" as mafia or not. But he's a reasonable person whose wagon had the backing of people I deemed trustworthy. If we were earlier in the game, I'd be willing to hedge more, think about trying to do things differently. But it's not. . . we basically have to make big assumptions to have a chance to win, and even then it is slim.
I don't like being accused of being low logic, and I didn't react well in the moment. My votes usually have a good amount of thought behind them.
Teucrian cause I have to vote for somebody, and he's the one I've gotten the least read on.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm pretty sure it's clear at this point none of our mafia reads have been shit. So yeah I'm going to go with one of the ones I'm not getting a distinct village vibe off of.
OK, let me flip that around, then: who are you getting a distinct village vibe off of?
H3, Austin, Preda and Megafrost (because the Mason claim would have been a crazy move for mafia), you (because I can't believe a mafia would go out of their way to piss off half the player base), and McKid (due to how sincere he came off when defending his pacifist route).
In the maybe village pile I have Invictus and Discrider as they've been helpful on a couple occasions, and JFP because statements like his one earlier on this page that just draws attention to himself come off as village.
That leaves Teucrian and WACriminal that I have gotten no read off of.
JFP because statements like his one earlier on this page that just draws attention to himself come off as village.
Personally, the fact that JFP has made two separate posts in the same game day to the effect of "I swear I'm town," particularly since there's not much discussion directed in the direction of JFP, is sounding alarm bells for me, but I don't even know, maybe that's just how people phalla.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited June 2016
I've been telling people for a while (previously in pm's) that I thought JFP was suspicious, but never seem to get much of a response. It's like he emits some sort of field.
If you feel strongly about someone's suspicion, you really should vote for them. Though, maybe not start that with 30mins before vote close.
As for me, I've been sitting back so as to not influence anyone's vote today. I feel the discussion has been valuable, especially when compared to yesterday.
For myself, I feel ok (not good, but ok) about dropping a vote on Teucrian. I can't get a read on him, and that worries me greatly. At least with most of the rest of you I get bits and pieces of where I think you stand. Haven't been able to pick that up off Teucrian, so, sorry, but have to put a vote somewhere.
Back from doing a quick "iso" on JFP. Holy smokes, how did I not see that before? We need to vote JFP out, pronto. Do we have enough people online to do it?
Actually, I know exactly how I didn't see it. A few well placed follows on my votes, with just a touch of ego stroking.
I'll note also that both Brody and Shalmelo publically put JFP high on their suspect lists right before they went down.
Posts
And once he gets half a chance, that character kills every single person he can.
Your wincon might not be explicitly anti-village, but I betting the outcome of you achieving it is .
Voting out the non-village with a wincon he refuses to share seems to make sense to me.
Edit: just saw your previous post so I know what it is now
This also explains why he is so against any attempt at a pacifist day.
Like, if there are lots of strong monsters alive at the end of the game, everyone magically loses? What? The only way this makes sense is if you are accusing me of lying. Except, the one big thing I've been doing behind the scenes all game is talking to the (mostly already present) hit squads and trying to have the levelups spread around, and occasionally getting other villagers involved to try to get them the levelups
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Also because I legitimately believe it wont work
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Yes.
This is precisely what I think.
I think if you encourage everyone to get a kill, that you will win and kill everybody.
Edit to add: If we kill threats out of necessity, we're okay, but there may be a ceiling to how much of that before we've gone too far (the ceiling quite possibly being your win condition). I'm not advocating pacifism, but trying to articulate why there might be reason for us to have concerns about whether we can mutually win with you.
For the most part my suspicions are leaning Discrider and Lostninja. Can't quite pin it, but both have been relatively low profile in the main thread while remaining active, and I almost get a feel of them bringing in info that seems useful but really just distracts or disorients the village.
Discrider for now as a placeholder, but I'd really like to look back and figure out if there's a better vote.
Getting this on the current page.
That is an out there win condition to invent. If Premium did that, he deserves to win.
Buh? No one is saying that. Re-read that discussion. No one is saying he's a mafia making up the win condition, we were discussing the possibility that his win condition might preclude the village's.
Edit: @Megafrost as well.
I don't think anyone has suggested that he's invented it.
I'm going to Teucrian.
Because if we're not voting premium then we should be looking for the mafia instead.
could you perhaps go for somebody you have a read on, and the read is mafia? This isn't the time for "iunno" votes.
I'm looking at his vote history now.
Seems like he didn't vote when Ardor was up for the vote, and didn't switch off Austin the day he revealed as nethead.
So there's that.
1) I cannot believe that there were zero mafia on the vote leader. Just...the odds against seem high.
2) I don't think premium is mafia. I don't necessarily trust him, but I don't think he's a human.
3) I vaguely remember seeing some posts from Teucrian that pinged my radar as a bit performative. Overtly handwringing, etc.
4) That doesn't clear J4P, but it does tip my scales against him for the moment. He hasn't done anything particularly suspicious, IMHO.
Teucrian
To be clear, the Ardor vote was while enlightenedbum (Teucrian's predecessor) was still playing, but this is substantially correct.
Preda: Fry (1)
discrider: Preda (2), premium (3), Megafrost (6), Teucrian (8)
premium: discrider (4), H3Knuckles (5)
Teucrian: LostNinja (7), discrider (9), WACriminal (10)
not voting:
AustinP0027 Invictus JusticeForPluto McKid H3Knuckles
edit: fixed dumb, discrider is not voting for himself
Are you serious? This is not the time for some vague hunches. I believe Austin was networked with the seer. I believe that Megafrost and Preda are village aligned masons. Maybe that's not true, but it's the read I feel the village has to go with. Given that, it would be downright irresponsible to throw out a vote on someone I had a "feeling" about.
And as for "Nobody said Premium is making up his VC". . . well when you accuse him of lying about it, that's exactly what you're doing. Now I get that you're saying something more shaded than this, that he subtly elided an element of his VC in order to deceive us. . . even so it's ridiculous. Maybe he did! But what can we do? We either trust or we don't trust, and there is no room for hedging.
Also Teucrian's post history over last couple of days has been abysmal.
Only a couple of votes with no reasoning beyond 'iunno' and wailing about not being able to find mafia.
So. I'm pretty happy with that vote, even though I just made it in retaliation originally.
I think I'm in agreement with you regarding the severity of the situation, why are you quoting me and asking "are you serious?" I am asking LostNinja why he is voting based on less than even a vague hunch.
Ok fine!
I'll ignore all my game knowledge!
I'll ignore the fact that I've been expecting an SK to rear their ugly head all game because of their central place in the game!
Premium is totally fine now, and if we lose to a threat to the peace that we didn't eliminate, then I guess that's just bad luck!
Cause I can't read.
I'm pretty sure it's clear at this point none of our mafia reads have been shit. So yeah I'm going to go with one of the ones I'm not getting a distinct village vibe off of.
By the way, you really need to work on this whole antagonistic shtick you do. At the end of the day this is a game and it's not fun to play with.
OK, let me flip that around, then: who are you getting a distinct village vibe off of?
I felt like I had a binary choice between discrider and premium. This is what I meant by not throwing out a vote on someone who I have a feeling about. It only makes sense to me to vote on one of the two major wagons, if we are too spread out it is too easy to manipulate at this point. Since I am almost entirely reliant on information that's in the thread, I don't think I am the right person to come up with another vote target.
Naturally this became a referendum on premium, about whom I had relatively more information. So the question was-- Is premium a threat to the village win condition, or is he simply what he says he is. The conclusion I reached was that I didn't think he was likely to make up that victory condition, and given that victory condition it didn't seem likely that he would be a threat. Again, this could be wrong, but my conclusion was otherwise.
That naturally leads to voting for discrider. I have no real opinion on whether he "reads" as mafia or not. But he's a reasonable person whose wagon had the backing of people I deemed trustworthy. If we were earlier in the game, I'd be willing to hedge more, think about trying to do things differently. But it's not. . . we basically have to make big assumptions to have a chance to win, and even then it is slim.
I don't like being accused of being low logic, and I didn't react well in the moment. My votes usually have a good amount of thought behind them.
H3, Austin, Preda and Megafrost (because the Mason claim would have been a crazy move for mafia), you (because I can't believe a mafia would go out of their way to piss off half the player base), and McKid (due to how sincere he came off when defending his pacifist route).
In the maybe village pile I have Invictus and Discrider as they've been helpful on a couple occasions, and JFP because statements like his one earlier on this page that just draws attention to himself come off as village.
That leaves Teucrian and WACriminal that I have gotten no read off of.
Personally, the fact that JFP has made two separate posts in the same game day to the effect of "I swear I'm town," particularly since there's not much discussion directed in the direction of JFP, is sounding alarm bells for me, but I don't even know, maybe that's just how people phalla.
As for me, I've been sitting back so as to not influence anyone's vote today. I feel the discussion has been valuable, especially when compared to yesterday.
For myself, I feel ok (not good, but ok) about dropping a vote on Teucrian. I can't get a read on him, and that worries me greatly. At least with most of the rest of you I get bits and pieces of where I think you stand. Haven't been able to pick that up off Teucrian, so, sorry, but have to put a vote somewhere.
Actually, I know exactly how I didn't see it. A few well placed follows on my votes, with just a touch of ego stroking.
I'll note also that both Brody and Shalmelo publically put JFP high on their suspect lists right before they went down.