Yeah, Richard Branson is now saying that not only did he have to pull the plug on a deal that would have created 3,000 jobs, but that Virgin Group has lost one third of its value.
holy moly thats a lotta jobs.
At least we can take comfort from knowing that none of them will be stolen by foreigners
I must also confess that my sekrit romantic royalist fantasy is for the Queen to hold a conference where she forces the lot of 'em to kneel in a row facing the cameras and admit they lied, thought only of themselves and their careers, etc, and apologize, and resign, with the Royal Headsman standing in the background to remind them of the alternative. And then she lays out how this is going to go.
(Yes, it's terribly anti-democratic, but this last week has been a rather comprehensive failure of that, hasn't it?)
(also, as already noted, American, so all of my notions of royalty come from fiction.)
To distill the point, though, I'm not sure that getting liars to publically admit they lied, thought only of themselves and their careers, etc, and apologize, and resign, is in any way anti-democratic.
In so many other aspects of life, what they did would have them facing criminal prosecution.
It's basically splitting the social left from the economic left and the social right from the economic right.
Believe me, I have a lot of progressives on my FB feed arguing over whether Brexit is a blow to neoliberalism or a boon to xenophobic nationalism.
How would it have ever been a blow to neoliberalism to leave the EU, outside of accelerationist fantasies?
I'm not sure I could do their position justice, but best I can figure, it boils down to a distrust of the State, and the EU being more State. They see modern Western governments as neoliberal institutions, and consider UK membership in the EU to effectively be locking it into European neoliberalism. By leaving the EU, they believe that there is the possibility of rallying the UK working class to fight neoliberalism, reverse the trend of globalization, and undo income inequality.
Here's a summary from one such person on my FB feed:
Right Remainers wanted to consolidate their power, continue neoliberal practice, and enrich their place in the order that exists. They are still nationalist xenophobic shitheels, even if it isn't a top priority.
Right Leavers were motivated by xenophobia and overt nationalism, wanted to grasp power, and shift practice towards isolationism. But, they are still capitalist shitheels of a possibly different flavour.
Left Remainers wanted to preserve the current order and reform the EU. Many of them are capitalist shitheels, many of them are authoritarian internationalists, and one is Jeremy Corbin (even if he spent much of his life pushing to leave, because Labour Party).
Left Leavers resist both the current order and the institution of the EU. None of them are capitalist, some are internationalists, some are anarchists. They are not xenophobes, but likely reject the State (and supranational bodies based on States).
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Say what you will of the EU, but their officials have comported themselves quite reasonably while the Great Ship Britannia sinks.
I think it is interesting that the "great" GB is ripping itself apart while the "dying" Europe has presented a unified front and on the whole seem to be barely affected.
...and by interesting I mean terrible.
That's the crazy thing. The truly potentially cancerous part of the EU is the monetary/currency union, the part that Britain is not a part of. They were already insulated from the potential points of failure of the EU project while having all the benefits. The UK has cut off its own leg because its neigbor has a funny looking mole.
Now, in Farage's defense, he called the attacks "appalling" in the next sentence.
But what the fuck
Little inspires extremist attacks as much as the feeling that they are winning and getting approval. "But you shouldn't feel that strongly because we are winning!" arguments are ridiculous.
I wonder what the next move for the Labour party is?
We're pretty much into uncharted waters since nobody else would be so pig headed to carry on when he has no support from MPs. Corbyn has locked himself in his bunker and won't come out voluntarily so further resignations will have no effect. A leadership challenge is inevitable and from what I hear they're trying to arrange a single candidate to back. The problem is a challenge wouldn't actually happen until the party conference in September by which time the tories will already have a leader in place. With a general election imminent soon after, it would put Labour on the back foot trying to get their leader established in the public.
More extreme measures might be needed, perhaps resigning the party whip en masse? Not sure if they'd ever be let back in after that mind. Even then I doubt Corbyn would budge.
Now, in Farage's defense, he called the attacks "appalling" in the next sentence.
But what the fuck
That's about as close as a politician could come to publicly praising these shitheels. Even for Farage it's monstrous.
Farage is probably thinking he's got nothing to lose by going for the 'prize' of these voters. In a post-leave environment UKIP needs something to be relevant and continue the gravy train so might as well be the party of hate. The gobshite probably rather fancies the idea of his very own brownshirts.
Cameron has said that [at the EU summit] everyone wants to see a “clear model” for future relations between Britain and the EU. However, he made it clear once again that he himself would not be invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which would trigger the start of the process of Britain leaving the EU, and that that would be a matter for his successor.
He said he couldn’t put a timeframe on when this would happen, but that Britain “needs some time” because the “overwhelming view in the the EU” is the need to get this right.
“This is a sad night for me,” says Cameron. “I threw myself in, head, heart and soul. And I didn’t succeed.”
I don't know whether to be sad that we're still going to shuffle along in this state, probably with things deteriorating daily, or hopeful that the longer A50 is put off, the chances of it never happening possibly start to increase.
I'd be curious to hear people's thoughts on this post on the "Growing Regrets of a Leave Voter". I realise that to some extent I have a kneejerk reaction, mainly because I think the poster, while showing self-awareness, isn't showing much self-criticism, while being quick to blame everyone else. Still, at some point it'll be vital to build bridges between the two camps again (I don't think it's really possible at this time), and I'd definitely find this easier to relate to than most by Leave voters that I've read to date.
To summarise the redditor is an idiot that believed against all evidence that Boris Johnson had a post Leave plan and wasn't just campaigning for leadership of the Conservative party. The fact that he was offended by remain supporters accusing him of idiocy is just an extension of his idiocy.
We've heard many accusations of arrogance from Leave and I can understand why it looks like that, as Remain's arguments were so one sided, but the political reality just is one sided.
I'd chalk this up to the Total Biscuit (not sure how he voted, just using as a convenient example) school of philosophy where "evidence" (see: Truthiness) is king, i.e. we don't know what the treaty will be so it could be fantastic (see: Schrödinger's Treaty) and no-one can prove otherwise. Its an appealing philosophy as it can validate almost any position, but its very dangerous if the user has power, which unfortunately we all do, despite the constant whining about Brussels and Westminster, this is a democracy and as we've just seen, we don't get over-ridden by the Illuminati (see: where's the shadow government, when you need it?)
No offense to Juncker, but it isn't even remotely up to him when or if the UK triggers Article 50.
As much as it might piss off the EU, I'm completely down with "if". It would take years to patch up the relationship, but I still think that might be better than having to build a new one from scratch.
I think it's a continuation of the "Just GTFO" message - the timetable is rhetorical, the message is that there's no going back and no trying to play this from a position of strength.
A surge of interest from Britons eager to obtain Irish passports has been continuing on a day when the Irish government called for calm and said that the processing system was coming under strain.
...
One woman who declined to be filmed admitted that she had voted to leave the European Union last week, but was now concerned about the economic consequences and wanted to get Irish passports for her family.
Alyn Smith an SNP MEP received a standing ovation in the European parliament for his plea for the EU to "not let Scotland down". This gives me a little hope.
What gives me less hope is the news that Sturgeons requests to meet with European officials have been denied and shot down at every turn. There seems to be some general support for Scottish membership on the floor but the message from up high in the EU seems to be a resoundingly clear "not while you're still in the UK".
More interestingly Kezia Dugdale is contining her slow but steady progress towards dropping her parties unionist stance.
But Kezia Dugdale, the Scottish Labour leader, with her voice expressing rage, accused Davidson’s party of “putting the future of the UK in danger at every turn”.
Dugdale told the Tory leader: “I struggle to put into words the anger I feel towards her party at the moment. An anger that’s been building since David Cameron announced English votes for English laws within minutes of the Scottish independence referendum result.
“An anger that grew when her party set Scottish voters against English voters in a hugely divisive and disingenuous 2015 campaign. Anger at a party that forced this EU referendum on a country that did not want it, only to resolve an ego contest in the Tory party ... And a Tory campaign in last month’s election that told the nation that all that mattered was whether you were a unionist or a nationalist.”
Dugdale added: “The Tories have put the future of the UK in danger at every turn and it’s high time they shouldered responsibility for that.”
There's everything to play for still but the paths for Scotland to retain both UK and EU membership seem to be vanishing one by one leading to one inevitable conclusion.
Donald Tusk said it wasn't the right time to meet Sturgeon. This isn't a surprise as it was never the plan to meet him. Sturgeon is going to meet the President of the European Parliament tomorrow.
As for Kezia. Her speech today was the best speech I have heard in years. It was spectacular. Absolutely spectacular. The text does not do it justice . Get on iPlayer and watch it, about 14:33 on BBC Parliament channel.
Ruth Davidson gets telt.
But I would disagree with you, I thought it clearly positioned SLab as Unionist in its stance. For now.
For now but I've already seen her quoted elsewhere as lining out the circumstances for her party to drop their support of the union. I wish I could find it again but the news is moving so fast right now it's hard to re-find things a couple of hours old let alone days.
Just her publicly giving voice to the scenario is a pretty big shift.
Listen to her full speech. Before today I was unsure of SLab's position. After that speech it is crystal clear. As of now they are opposed to independence, the absolute kicking Davidson took was from a Unionist perspective -it could only be delivered by someone who loves the Union.
I'm not saying SLab's position won't change as circumstances change - in fact Dugdale is clear that it would change in response to events but if you want to know SLab's position right now then forget everything you have read since Friday and watch her speech right now.
Just finished watching all of that... fucking hell that's a bad ass collection of Politicians, surprised Scottish Tories didn't combust from all those sick burns.
Would vote for any of them (obvious exception excluded).
Now, in Farage's defense, he called the attacks "appalling" in the next sentence.
But what the fuck
Little inspires extremist attacks as much as the feeling that they are winning and getting approval. "But you shouldn't feel that strongly because we are winning!" arguments are ridiculous.
"Ah, dial it back a bit, lads. Dog whistles, eh? Sure, we won big this time, but we still can't just come out and say we're the Racist Party, wot?"
I'm getting the distinct impression that Juncker is just completely fed up of our collective shit.
Could just be an act, but I would not blame him in the slightest if it wasn't.
Oh look if I had to put up with being under the same roof as Nigel Farage even one day a year, I'd be willing to kiss goodbye to his entire country too.
I mean, they're leaving the EU, but want to maintain trade... so, what, exactly is their carrot or stick when the EU response on the above is "No, if you want to remain in the single market, you take free movement"? I mean, what is the actual bargaining position they're expecting here?
• David Cameron has warned Europe’s leaders that they will have to offer the UK more control over immigration at the end of a fractious day where politicians across Europe clashed over the meaning and consequences of last week’s Brexit vote.
The British prime minster used his last Brussels summit to tell Angela Merkel, François Hollande and other European heads of government that anxieties about unrestricted freedom of movement were at the heart of the decision by Britons to reject the EU.
• Boris Johnson would not call a general election immediately if he won the Conservative party leadership election and took over as prime minister, it is understood.
Johnson is one of several Tories about to formally launch their bids to replace David Cameron as nominations open on Wednesday, with his main rivals set to include the home secretary, Theresa May, and a joint ticket of Stephen Crabb, the pensions secretary, backed by Sajid Javid, the business secretary.
• Labour MPs are preparing to launch a bruising leadership contest that will aim to topple leader Jeremy Corbyn after he reacted to an overwhelming vote of no confidence by declaring he had no intention to resign.
Politicians want Angela Eagle, who has stepped down as shadow business secretary, or Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, to agree about which of them will trigger the challenge if their leader continues to hold on in the face of massive hostility.
• Firms are already freezing investment as a result of the uncertainty caused by the Brexit vote, the head of the CBI business lobby group has said as she said the UK was a long way off having a plan and leadership to deal with the repercussions of Thursday’s referendum.
As a wide range of businesses – including Germany company Siemens and Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin – warned about the implications for the UK, the CBI director-general, Carolyn Fairbairn, called on the government to act quickly.
• European stock markets rallied in what analysts called a “dead cat bounce”, bringing some respite after the UK’s vote to leave the European Union wiped $3tn off global stocks.
In their worst-ever rout, equity markets lost $2tn of their value on Friday, with a further $930bn wiped off on Monday when the UK was stripped of its last AAA credit rating. Some analysts have warned of a full-blown recession in the UK.
No offense to Juncker, but it isn't even remotely up to him when or if the UK triggers Article 50.
He has a responsibility to 27 other economies that have to wait two years plus however long it takes your government to get its shit together and invoke article 50 to find out what the new normal looks like and how it effects them before they can recover fully from the fallout of the referendum.
You may not like it, but it is at least partially up to him.
How is this bunch of "out of touch" bureaucrats able to so clearly articulate the failures of the British state, when English and Welsh politicians or "journalists" are only able to mumble useless drivel about being fed up with Brussels or Westminster?
Also sorry for being so aggressive earlier, I've been rather infuriated by this referendum, but you've all helped me make sense of it and I'm back to the old politics is an on-going struggle and sometimes you go backwards, but if our cause is just we will go forwards again! (cheesy I know, but I believe it)
The British prime minster used his last Brussels summit to tell Angela Merkel, François Hollande and other European heads of government that anxieties about unrestricted freedom of movement were at the heart of the decision by Britons to reject the EU.
"Well, I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, so if you can't or won't accept that..."
*Juncker leans over and speaks into the mic* "Get out."
How is this bunch of "out of touch" bureaucrats able to so clearly articulate the failures of the British state, when English and Welsh politicians or "journalists" are only able to mumble useless drivel about being fed up with Brussels or Westminster?
Also sorry for being so aggressive earlier, I've been rather infuriated by this referendum, but you've all helped me make sense of it and I'm back to the old politics is an on-going struggle and sometimes you go backwards, but if our cause is just we will go forwards again! (cheesy I know, but I believe it)
It's at the point where I'm seeing obscene numbers like "3 trillion" and "960 billion" thrown around I wanna grab anyone who had the shits over 350 mil a week and shake them very hard.
At this rate it'll take us a hundred years or more to make back the money the economy has lost in the last week alone from EU membership fee savings.
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At least we can take comfort from knowing that none of them will be stolen by foreigners
To distill the point, though, I'm not sure that getting liars to publically admit they lied, thought only of themselves and their careers, etc, and apologize, and resign, is in any way anti-democratic.
In so many other aspects of life, what they did would have them facing criminal prosecution.
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How would it have ever been a blow to neoliberalism to leave the EU, outside of accelerationist fantasies?
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I'm not sure I could do their position justice, but best I can figure, it boils down to a distrust of the State, and the EU being more State. They see modern Western governments as neoliberal institutions, and consider UK membership in the EU to effectively be locking it into European neoliberalism. By leaving the EU, they believe that there is the possibility of rallying the UK working class to fight neoliberalism, reverse the trend of globalization, and undo income inequality.
Here's a summary from one such person on my FB feed:
Now, in Farage's defense, he called the attacks "appalling" in the next sentence.
But what the fuck
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That's the crazy thing. The truly potentially cancerous part of the EU is the monetary/currency union, the part that Britain is not a part of. They were already insulated from the potential points of failure of the EU project while having all the benefits. The UK has cut off its own leg because its neigbor has a funny looking mole.
Little inspires extremist attacks as much as the feeling that they are winning and getting approval. "But you shouldn't feel that strongly because we are winning!" arguments are ridiculous.
That's about as close as a politician could come to publicly praising these shitheels. Even for Farage it's monstrous.
We're pretty much into uncharted waters since nobody else would be so pig headed to carry on when he has no support from MPs. Corbyn has locked himself in his bunker and won't come out voluntarily so further resignations will have no effect. A leadership challenge is inevitable and from what I hear they're trying to arrange a single candidate to back. The problem is a challenge wouldn't actually happen until the party conference in September by which time the tories will already have a leader in place. With a general election imminent soon after, it would put Labour on the back foot trying to get their leader established in the public.
More extreme measures might be needed, perhaps resigning the party whip en masse? Not sure if they'd ever be let back in after that mind. Even then I doubt Corbyn would budge.
Farage is probably thinking he's got nothing to lose by going for the 'prize' of these voters. In a post-leave environment UKIP needs something to be relevant and continue the gravy train so might as well be the party of hate. The gobshite probably rather fancies the idea of his very own brownshirts.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/28/brexit-live-cameron-eu-leaders-brussels-corbyn-confidence
I don't know whether to be sad that we're still going to shuffle along in this state, probably with things deteriorating daily, or hopeful that the longer A50 is put off, the chances of it never happening possibly start to increase.
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Where's the trolling? That just looks like a factual statement to me.
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To summarise the redditor is an idiot that believed against all evidence that Boris Johnson had a post Leave plan and wasn't just campaigning for leadership of the Conservative party. The fact that he was offended by remain supporters accusing him of idiocy is just an extension of his idiocy.
We've heard many accusations of arrogance from Leave and I can understand why it looks like that, as Remain's arguments were so one sided, but the political reality just is one sided.
I'd chalk this up to the Total Biscuit (not sure how he voted, just using as a convenient example) school of philosophy where "evidence" (see: Truthiness) is king, i.e. we don't know what the treaty will be so it could be fantastic (see: Schrödinger's Treaty) and no-one can prove otherwise. Its an appealing philosophy as it can validate almost any position, but its very dangerous if the user has power, which unfortunately we all do, despite the constant whining about Brussels and Westminster, this is a democracy and as we've just seen, we don't get over-ridden by the Illuminati (see: where's the shadow government, when you need it?)
Oddly arbitrary timetable?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
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Juncker seems to be delighting in being a hardnosed grump about all of this.
As much as it might piss off the EU, I'm completely down with "if". It would take years to patch up the relationship, but I still think that might be better than having to build a new one from scratch.
And yes, I am factoring in Kipper rioting.
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Could just be an act, but I would not blame him in the slightest if it wasn't.
I think it's a continuation of the "Just GTFO" message - the timetable is rhetorical, the message is that there's no going back and no trying to play this from a position of strength.
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Just finished watching all of that... fucking hell that's a bad ass collection of Politicians, surprised Scottish Tories didn't combust from all those sick burns.
Would vote for any of them (obvious exception excluded).
"Ah, dial it back a bit, lads. Dog whistles, eh? Sure, we won big this time, but we still can't just come out and say we're the Racist Party, wot?"
Fucking. Why.
Goddammit, Lucas.
EDIT: That was from last year's leadership race. Oops.
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Oh look if I had to put up with being under the same roof as Nigel Farage even one day a year, I'd be willing to kiss goodbye to his entire country too.
Yo that's from over a year ago.
Yeah, just twigged and edited.
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I mean, they're leaving the EU, but want to maintain trade... so, what, exactly is their carrot or stick when the EU response on the above is "No, if you want to remain in the single market, you take free movement"? I mean, what is the actual bargaining position they're expecting here?
How I wish SOMEBODY from the Leave side would say that!
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He has a responsibility to 27 other economies that have to wait two years plus however long it takes your government to get its shit together and invoke article 50 to find out what the new normal looks like and how it effects them before they can recover fully from the fallout of the referendum.
You may not like it, but it is at least partially up to him.
How is this bunch of "out of touch" bureaucrats able to so clearly articulate the failures of the British state, when English and Welsh politicians or "journalists" are only able to mumble useless drivel about being fed up with Brussels or Westminster?
Also sorry for being so aggressive earlier, I've been rather infuriated by this referendum, but you've all helped me make sense of it and I'm back to the old politics is an on-going struggle and sometimes you go backwards, but if our cause is just we will go forwards again! (cheesy I know, but I believe it)
"Well, I'm afraid that's non-negotiable, so if you can't or won't accept that..."
*Juncker leans over and speaks into the mic* "Get out."
Shit, can the US please be indicted for this too?
At this rate it'll take us a hundred years or more to make back the money the economy has lost in the last week alone from EU membership fee savings.