Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
I almost bet you a dollar they try to say Thanos was responsible.
Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
I'd say it's more a failsafe than the actual plan, either Loki takes over and he gets what he wants, or Humans bring about their own demise by meddling with technology beyond their ken, either way he wins. (except when he doesn't...or does he?)
Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
Wait, what do Hydra or the Maximoffs have to do with it?
It was basically an AI set to take over whatever tech they had. Hydra using it had nothing to do with what Thanos wanted/cared about. At least in my head.
He was being mind controlled at the time. Sure it worked off of his preexisting PTSD and desire to see the world become safe, but the actions being taken were not fully him.
He wasn't mind controlled
Wanda doesn't mind control people, she can make them see things or fuck with their head but she doesn't actively control them after she does the work
She just made Tony see a horrifying vision, everything after that was his reaction to it
+11
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Tony Stark's regret is the whole driving force for why he wants to sign the Sokovia accords.
It is an entire thing that they have spent many, many movies building up to and have even paid off.
Him mentoring Peter in some way to repair his soul fits perfectly within that narrative. And given the "totally not a hug" thing he is still a little reluctant in this role.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+12
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
He was being mind controlled at the time. Sure it worked off of his preexisting PTSD and desire to see the world become safe, but the actions being taken were not fully him.
He wasn't mind controlled
Wanda doesn't mind control people, she can make them see things or fuck with their head but she doesn't actively control them after she does the work
She just made Tony see a horrifying vision, everything after that was his reaction to it
You're right that that's not what people usually think of when "mind control" comes up in sci-fi or fantasy, and almost certainly not what we're talking about here. But on the whole, I would say psychological manipulation is definitely a form of mind control.
Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
Wait, what do Hydra or the Maximoffs have to do with it?
It was basically an AI set to take over whatever tech they had. Hydra using it had nothing to do with what Thanos wanted/cared about. At least in my head.
Hydra was experimenting on the stone and Wanda is the one who looked into Tony's head got him to panic and take such drastic steps with Ultron. If she hadn't freaked him out he likely would have been a bit more careful and not just let Jarvis run experiments while he wasn't around.
He was being mind controlled at the time. Sure it worked off of his preexisting PTSD and desire to see the world become safe, but the actions being taken were not fully him.
He wasn't mind controlled
Wanda doesn't mind control people, she can make them see things or fuck with their head but she doesn't actively control them after she does the work
She just made Tony see a horrifying vision, everything after that was his reaction to it
Between her and the gem/staff itself i'm pretty comfortable calling it mind control. Maybe it's not Purple Man levels, but he was not fully responsible for his actions because he was in a shitty place mentally and then was taken advantage of.
I was under the impression that Tony and the Avengers were looking for Loki's scepter regardless of what Hydra and the twins were doing. He had already conceived Ultron along with Banner long before the events of the movie, they just couldn't get it working.
+3
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Tony had already created his own private evil robot police force with zero oversight before Wanda influenced him
Yeah, her influence might be partially to blame for the Ultron thing (although I would argue that she is not, as I don't believe she had full control over the visions that she gave people), but so much of the raw material was provided by Tony
I was under the impression that Tony and the Avengers were looking for Loki's scepter regardless of what Hydra and the twins were doing. He had already conceived Ultron along with Banner long before the events of the movie, they just couldn't get it working.
He had conceived Ultron but Wanda messing with his head is what pushed him to do a 48 hour no sleep experimentation thon with Banner that led to Ultron awakening with no safeguards in place
Tony had already created his own private evil robot police force with zero oversight before Wanda influenced him
I'm not sure why you consider automatons that helped evacuate civilians from danger zones to be an "evil police force".
A) All robots are evil.
:cool: Fuck the police
C) Tony Stark is a bad person and he is the only person in control of this police force, therefore they must also be bad.
Some people really want Tony to be a bad guy, I guess.
I don't think Tony is a bad guy
but he has made some very, very prominent mistakes on both a superheroic and personal level and the MCU is currently dealing with how he is coping with them
Tony had already created his own private evil robot police force with zero oversight before Wanda influenced him
I'm not sure why you consider automatons that helped evacuate civilians from danger zones to be an "evil police force".
A) All robots are evil.
:cool: Fuck the police
C) Tony Stark is a bad person and he is the only person in control of this police force, therefore they must also be bad.
This is the sort of irrational, blind prejudice that makes humans so much of a disappointment. I'm looking forward to robots. They have a chance of doing so much better than we did.
+3
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Some people really want Tony to be a bad guy, I guess.
I don't think Tony is a bad guy
but he has made some very, very prominent mistakes on both a superheroic and personal level and the MCU is currently dealing with how he is coping with them
I mean, that describes him and Steve.
Edit: It just occurred to me that MCU did the whole Superman/Batman "Different... but the same" dynamic pretty well.
Some people really want Tony to be a bad guy, I guess.
I don't think Tony is a bad guy
but he has made some very, very prominent mistakes on both a superheroic and personal level and the MCU is currently dealing with how he is coping with them
I mean, that describes him and Steve.
Edit: It just occurred to me that MCU did the whole Superman/Batman "Different... but the same" dynamic pretty well.
I also think Steve made a bunch of mistakes in Civil War!
Tony had already created his own private evil robot police force with zero oversight before Wanda influenced him
I'm not sure why you consider automatons that helped evacuate civilians from danger zones to be an "evil police force".
A) All robots are evil.
:cool: Fuck the police
C) Tony Stark is a bad person and he is the only person in control of this police force, therefore they must also be bad.
Some people really want Tony to be a bad guy, I guess.
I don't think Tony is a bad guy
but he has made some very, very prominent mistakes on both a superheroic and personal level and the MCU is currently dealing with how he is coping with them
I mean, that describes him and Steve.
Edit: It just occurred to me that MCU did the whole Superman/Batman "Different... but the same" dynamic pretty well.
I also think Steve made a bunch of mistakes in Civil War!
Tony didn't plug shit in! He was looking at it, and it turns out it tricked him. Like, I realize that we normally think of MCU Thanos as a bumbling offscreen dude who likes his Palpatine chair, but Ultron was his plan. He wasn't actually going to give Earth to Loki. He doesn't give a fuck about Loki.
Edit: This may be me grasping at straws to care about Thanos.
Yeah uh
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
very loosely, you could say that thanos rightly assumed that if he just left these powerful artifacts in the hands of these dumbass humans long enough, they would destroy themselves. wanda operated on the same principle when she let tony take the scepter after all
but that does not exactly constitute a carefully constructed master plan
0
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Steve's biggest flaw is ensuring Bucky will be in more movies.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I think that Ultron was already turned on essentially. Nothing anyone did to the scepter "activated it" or whatever, it just took awhile for it to coalesce
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Bucky only has one album on his ipod. And it's Year of the Spider.
Tony had already created his own private evil robot police force with zero oversight before Wanda influenced him
I'm not sure why you consider automatons that helped evacuate civilians from danger zones to be an "evil police force".
A) All robots are evil.
:cool: Fuck the police
C) Tony Stark is a bad person and he is the only person in control of this police force, therefore they must also be bad.
What makes them "police", though?
That's true
Police implies that they've been granted their power and authority through some measure of government, rather than a lone man's whim
So they're just an extrajudicial hit squad that Tony tries to dress up in his delusions of authority, I guess
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D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
there is no way it was Thanos' plan
That would require Thanos to have manipulated: Hydra, The Maximoff Twins and Tony Stark from half a universe away with no evidence of any sort of contact between any of them
An honest-to-god tear came to my eye when I saw what they'd done
I love those brilliant, beautiful idiots with my whole dumb heart
I almost bet you a dollar they try to say Thanos was responsible.
Architect of all your pain and such and such
wait till you what the central conceit for the movie is
I'd say it's more a failsafe than the actual plan, either Loki takes over and he gets what he wants, or Humans bring about their own demise by meddling with technology beyond their ken, either way he wins. (except when he doesn't...or does he?)
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Does it involve time travel
Or some kind of magical sword
I'm still holding out hope for
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Wait, what do Hydra or the Maximoffs have to do with it?
It was basically an AI set to take over whatever tech they had. Hydra using it had nothing to do with what Thanos wanted/cared about. At least in my head.
Wanda doesn't mind control people, she can make them see things or fuck with their head but she doesn't actively control them after she does the work
She just made Tony see a horrifying vision, everything after that was his reaction to it
It is an entire thing that they have spent many, many movies building up to and have even paid off.
Him mentoring Peter in some way to repair his soul fits perfectly within that narrative. And given the "totally not a hug" thing he is still a little reluctant in this role.
the delorean does have to go 88
it's not a Transformers movie!
i'd actually prefer not to spoil it till the trailer hits, and thankfully the teases have done a pretty good job of obfuscating it
i enjoyed Furious 7 but thought the formula was getting a little stale. F8 looks to be switching things up in a real fun way
I mean personally I want Vin Diesil and his Family to punch dinosaurs and ride a dragon and fight robots into Fast 18
So like yeah the dumber it gets the more I'll love it
You're right that that's not what people usually think of when "mind control" comes up in sci-fi or fantasy, and almost certainly not what we're talking about here. But on the whole, I would say psychological manipulation is definitely a form of mind control.
Between her and the gem/staff itself i'm pretty comfortable calling it mind control. Maybe it's not Purple Man levels, but he was not fully responsible for his actions because he was in a shitty place mentally and then was taken advantage of.
Yeah, her influence might be partially to blame for the Ultron thing (although I would argue that she is not, as I don't believe she had full control over the visions that she gave people), but so much of the raw material was provided by Tony
I'm not sure why you consider automatons that helped evacuate civilians from danger zones to be an "evil police force".
A) All robots are evil.
:cool: Fuck the police
C) Tony Stark is a bad person and he is the only person in control of this police force, therefore they must also be bad.
but he has made some very, very prominent mistakes on both a superheroic and personal level and the MCU is currently dealing with how he is coping with them
This is the sort of irrational, blind prejudice that makes humans so much of a disappointment. I'm looking forward to robots. They have a chance of doing so much better than we did.
I mean, that describes him and Steve.
Edit: It just occurred to me that MCU did the whole Superman/Batman "Different... but the same" dynamic pretty well.
They're both flawed dudes.
What makes them "police", though?
Stop agreeing with me, I'm trying to argue!
very loosely, you could say that thanos rightly assumed that if he just left these powerful artifacts in the hands of these dumbass humans long enough, they would destroy themselves. wanda operated on the same principle when she let tony take the scepter after all
but that does not exactly constitute a carefully constructed master plan
#BuckUp
Bucky is an absolute albatross around Cap's movies
God he's boring
That's true
Police implies that they've been granted their power and authority through some measure of government, rather than a lone man's whim
So they're just an extrajudicial hit squad that Tony tries to dress up in his delusions of authority, I guess