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[Pizzagate]; or, Ain't No Rest for the Wikileaks

CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
edited January 2017 in Debate and/or Discourse
Alright, what does Barack Obama, pedophile cabals, pizza parlors, and the secret world government have in common?

According to /pol/, reddit, Alex Jones, and a member of Trump's transition team, goddamn everything.

Thanks to Wikileaks, the latest moral panic in America began on 4chan, from 4chan users interpreting references to pizza in John Podesta's emails to be secret code for child rape. Because child pornography is called "cheese pizza" on 4chan. CP. Gettit?
ifuckunghatepeoplesimuchjesusfuckingchrist

Thing is, unlike most scum that bubbles to the top of 4chan's vats, this thing is spreading. Rapidly. First to the equally repugnant reddit, and then to everyone's favorite living red gumball, Alex "TURN THE FRIGGIN FROGS GAY" Jones. And then to the son of a prominent member if Trump's administration, Michael Flynn Jr.

I'm making this topic because unlike a lot of alt-right crazy shit, this is not stopping. It's accelerating. To the point that pizza parlor employees are receiving death threats, and an armed gunman stormed the pizza place at the alledged center of this twisted brainfuck of a conspiracy.

The targets, of course, lean Democrat and several are gay. Just like the Satanic Panic of the 90s. That some people are still in jail over.

This is fucking nuts.

Here's Colbert explaining it.

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Posts

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.

    DasUberEdwardLoisLane
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    i have no idea what you are talking about in the OP

    what is this

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Organichu wrote: »
    i have no idea what you are talking about in the OP

    what is this

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_(conspiracy_theory)
    Pizzagate is a debunked[1][2][3] conspiracy theory which alleged that John Podesta's emails, which were leaked by WikiLeaks, tied a number of pizzerias and members of the Democratic Party to a child-sex ring. The theory has been discredited by the District of Columbia Police Department who characterized it as a "fictitious conspiracy theory",[1] and determined to be fake by multiple organizations including Snopes.com,[4] The New York Times,[5] and Fox News.[6]
    Comet Ping Pong shooting

    Exterior of Comet Ping Pong
    On December 4, 2016, a 28-year-old Salisbury, North Carolina man fired three shots in the restaurant with an AR-15-style assault rifle, striking walls, a desk, and a door.[2][21] The suspect later told police that he had planned to "self-investigate" the conspiracy theory.[22] The man surrendered after he "found no evidence that underage children were being harbored in the restaurant", was arrested without incident and charged with assault with a dangerous weapon.[23] No injuries were reported.[24]
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

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  • a nu starta nu start Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    i have no idea what you are talking about in the OP

    what is this

    You know how Catcher in the Rye caused a guy to kill Lennon, and Jodie Foster caused a guy to try to kill Reagan?

    Well, in this case, trump is an asshole. But that's besides the point.

    Fake "news" made up some stuff about a Pizza parlor trafficking children, and people are taking it seriously enough to go to the place with guns to "investigate".

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  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    was it specific restaurants or pizza places in general

    who would impugn pizza, have they no honor

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

    ...How did this man get an interview with the NYT instead of just being imprisoned?


    JFC

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.

    To be fair, Flynn Sr. doesn't seem to buy into this, from what I've seen. I'll throw another summation in the OP.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    was it specific restaurants or pizza places in general

    who would impugn pizza, have they no honor

    It was Comet Ping Pong, a D.C. pizza place at first, now pretty much everyone left of Trump is alleged to play a part in it.

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  • Squidget0Squidget0 Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    The Ender wrote: »
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

    ...How did this man get an interview with the NYT instead of just being imprisoned?


    JFC

    It's because the left-media and alt-right have a symbiotic relationship. The media is happy to write about them because they get to signal-boost maximally terrible versions of their political opponents, associating their political outgroup with literal nazis. The alt-right is happy because they get a bunch of publicity and lulz.

    Don't take the bait. Remember that the alt-right is tiny and powerless, no more meaningful than Satanists as a political power bloc. The only reason something like this gets publicized over any of the other thousands of gun crimes that happen every day is because it fits a particular political narrative.

    Squidget0 on
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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    how is the alt right tiny and powerless?

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Squidget0 wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

    ...How did this man get an interview with the NYT instead of just being imprisoned?


    JFC

    It's because the left-media and alt-right have a symbiotic relationship. The media is happy to write about them because they get to signal-boost maximally terrible versions of their political opponents, and associate their outgroup with literal nazis. The alt-right is happy because they get a bunch of publicity and lulz.

    Don't take the bait. Remember that the alt-right is tiny and powerless, no more meaningful than Satanists as a political power bloc. The only reason something like this gets publicized over any of the other thousands of gun crimes that happen every day is because it fits a particular political narrative.

    The alt-right; tiny, powerless, recently helped elect a candidate to the highest office in the land.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    No, the alt-right is not tiny and powerless. They control what are easily the two largest right wing media outlets in the U.S. (Drudge & Breitbart).


    EDIT: Oh, and one of the most trafficked websites, period (4chan) and a substantial province of another (Reddit).

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Squidget0 wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

    ...How did this man get an interview with the NYT instead of just being imprisoned?


    JFC

    It's because the left-media and alt-right have a symbiotic relationship. The media is happy to write about them because they get to signal-boost maximally terrible versions of their political opponents, and associate half the country with literal nazis. The alt-right is happy because they get a bunch of publicity and lulz.

    Don't take the bait. Remember that the alt-right is tiny and powerless, no more meaningful than Satanists as a political power bloc. The only reason something like this gets publicized over any of the other thousands of gun crimes that happen every day is because it fits a particular political narrative.

    Steve Bannon is in the fucking White House. We can't ignore these people. We can't ignore an online conspiracy theory creating real world violence.

    Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

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  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    The election giving conspiracy wingnuts like these more visibility and legitimacy seriously scares me.

    Like, there isn't any outcome to this which doesn't embolden other conspiracy-type people to say that Comet Ping Pong et al. are being shielded by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton or whatever.

    And one of these conspiracy wingnuts was elected to the highest office in the land with a Republican Congress to back him up.

    There is no such thing as Peak Derp. And there is no such thing as Peak Off the Deep End.

    I think somebody needs to hold me. :sad:

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  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    Squidget0 wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    The suspect told police he had "read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves and that he wanted to see for himself if they were there".[17] In an interview with The New York Times, the suspect said that he regretted how he handled the situation but did not dismiss the conspiracy theory, and rejected the description of it as "fake news"

    ...How did this man get an interview with the NYT instead of just being imprisoned?


    JFC

    It's because the left-media and alt-right have a symbiotic relationship. The media is happy to write about them because they get to signal-boost maximally terrible versions of their political opponents, and associate half the country with literal nazis. The alt-right is happy because they get a bunch of publicity and lulz.

    Don't take the bait. Remember that the alt-right is tiny and powerless, no more meaningful than Satanists as a political power bloc. The only reason something like this gets publicized over any of the other thousands of gun crimes that happen every day is because it fits a particular political narrative.

    Steve Bannon is in the fucking White House. We can't ignore these people. We can't ignore an online conspiracy theory creating real world violence.

    Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

    These are literally people who think that John Podesta's emails prove that Hillary Clinton is running a child pornography ring. And they're willing to shoot up a place to make sure that a supposed part of the conspiracy is ruined.

    The white supremacists and rabid misogynists and conspiracy theorists won't go away because we ignore them.

    And they're in the White House now.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    I learned of pizzagate when I reactivated my facebook and saw a lot of Trump supporters highlighting it as why they voted Trump. Urging friends and family to look into how dangerous the U.S. is becoming and to be thankful that we don't have this criminal in office.

    Long self-congratulatory posts and persistent fear mongering. It took me less than two minutes to find out that it was completely false and then I immediately deactivated my account instead of trying to even breach that wall of gullibility.

    I don't think this necessarily deserves a thread but it's certainly a problem when a shocking portion of the country is eating this garbage right up and drowning the rest of us in the vomit.

    Calling this a satanic panic is misleading. It was political and nothing else.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    This was posted earlier, but:

    RaMtwF.png

    A crazy person I know via facebook (who definitely believes demons have infiltrated the government to stop us from contacting aliens) was posting stuff about it from close to when it first appeared.

    Alex Jones (of "Hillary and Obama are either literally demons or just possessed by some" fame) picked it up, and now we have "respectable" alt-right (neonazi) people spreading it (except of course Milo isn't really alt-right he just talks about the movement wink wink).

    I despair.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    The main difference is that the satanic panic relied on religious beliefs to justify far-fetched notions. Religion at the core requires certain leaps of faith.

    This on the other hand is not religious. It is not using artwork and events that are at their core innocent and presenting them in a dark light.

    There is nothing. There is no basement. None of this exists and yet it has swayed hundreds of thousands or maybe more?

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    I honestly thought you were referring to the "spirit cooking" nonsense at first.

    Because, yes, there actually was a literal Satanic panic during this campaign season.

    Burnage on
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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    The main difference is that the satanic panic relied on religious beliefs to justify far-fetched notions. Religion at the core requires certain leaps of faith.

    This on the other hand is not religious. It is not using artwork and events that are at their core innocent and presenting them in a dark light.

    There is nothing. There is no basement. None of this exists and yet it has swayed hundreds of thousands or maybe more?

    They're both absolutley insane conspiracy theories that center around vast networks of child rapists, Satanists, and cannibalism. True, one is a moral panic and the other a political propaganda piece, but they have more in common then not. I think the comparison stands.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    I honestly thought you were referring to the "spirit cooking" nonsense at first.

    Because, yes, there actually was a literal Satanic panic during this campaign season.

    Oh, that's part of it. Apparently, Marina Abramovic is a powerful occultist now.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    The main difference is that the satanic panic relied on religious beliefs to justify far-fetched notions. Religion at the core requires certain leaps of faith.

    This on the other hand is not religious. It is not using artwork and events that are at their core innocent and presenting them in a dark light.

    There is nothing. There is no basement. None of this exists and yet it has swayed hundreds of thousands or maybe more?

    They're both absolutley insane conspiracy theories that center around vast networks of child rapists, Satanists, and cannibalism. True, one is a moral panic and the other a political propaganda piece, but they have more in common then not. I think the comparison stands.

    There's a big difference.



    While this is all conjecture. At least they are pointing to things that exist in the real world. Yes, there is a satanic church. Yes a lot of metal albums in the 80s and 70s literally depicted demons and had satanic lyrics.

    These are all real things being used to make the news story. The only real thing in pizzagate is a pizza shop and someone mentioning the pizza shop. That's why I think it's disingenuous to mention the two together. Pizzagate is a beast of an entirely different matter.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    I'm not sure this is worth arguing over.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.
    ? Flynn Sr reposts the same kind of stuff all the time

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.
    ? Flynn Sr reposts the same kind of stuff all the time

    Check out the NPR stuff about him today. During the Iraq war he was apparently very cogent, really interested in listening to embedded reporters, willing to talk to the press, very much a realist about what was happening. He was well regarded as a thoughtful and curious straight shooter, not a wingnut conspiracy theorist. Somewhere along the line between then and now, something changed...

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.
    ? Flynn Sr reposts the same kind of stuff all the time

    Check out the NPR stuff about him today. During the Iraq war he was apparently very cogent, really interested in listening to embedded reporters, willing to talk to the press, very much a realist about what was happening. He was well regarded as a thoughtful and curious straight shooter, not a wingnut conspiracy theorist. Somewhere along the line between then and now, something changed...

    The republican party changed in decade and a half since then. Flynn, a republican, like most partisans in this country, probably identifies with party over ideology. As the party went hard right, so did he.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.
    ? Flynn Sr reposts the same kind of stuff all the time

    Check out the NPR stuff about him today. During the Iraq war he was apparently very cogent, really interested in listening to embedded reporters, willing to talk to the press, very much a realist about what was happening. He was well regarded as a thoughtful and curious straight shooter, not a wingnut conspiracy theorist. Somewhere along the line between then and now, something changed...

    The republican party changed in decade and a half since then. Flynn, a republican, like most partisans in this country, probably identifies with party over ideology. As the party went hard right, so did he.

    I don't know, has he had bypass surgery since then? Micro-clots to the brain causing personality changes, often associated with a loss of empathy is a real problem.

  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    NPR is reporting that Michael Flynn Jr has been removed from the transition team.

    Flynn Sr. was a very well respected figure, NPR reports that even entertaining this stuff is a dramatic and baffling departure from his usual curious and forthright behavior.
    ? Flynn Sr reposts the same kind of stuff all the time

    Check out the NPR stuff about him today. During the Iraq war he was apparently very cogent, really interested in listening to embedded reporters, willing to talk to the press, very much a realist about what was happening. He was well regarded as a thoughtful and curious straight shooter, not a wingnut conspiracy theorist. Somewhere along the line between then and now, something changed...

    The republican party changed in decade and a half since then. Flynn, a republican, like most partisans in this country, probably identifies with party over ideology. As the party went hard right, so did he.

    It's one thing to show your support for party politics just to stay with the party, it's another to be a driving force behind conspiracies.

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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Can we take a second and think about how absolutely terrifying this is for the shop owner?
    I mean, its hard enough to run a successful business as it is, let alone run one while accidently (through no fault of your own) getting caught in a nutbag right wing conspiracy theory.

    I feel really bad for the shop owner just trying to run a pizza place and now because people cant recognize reality, he has people showing up with guns.

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  • DeliciousTacosDeliciousTacos Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's rough, I felt bad enough that I literally called them and asked if I could donate, as if I don't donate enough of my money to pizza daily

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Satanic panic never left.

    There's been a pretty consistent effort to brand culture warriors on the right as bravely facing off against baby-eating satanists for decades.

    I think Slacktivist put it best by saying many people are earnestly role-playing. They're willing to believe the worst about others because of the thrill they get out of the idea of fighting against REAL satanists. Some of them would say when pressed that they get that a single mother getting an abortion probably isn't really a demon. Some of them when pressed will shoot up a pizza joint.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
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  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's rough, I felt bad enough that I literally called them and asked if I could donate, as if I don't donate enough of my money to pizza daily
    Yeah, it's rough, I felt bad enough that I literally called them and asked if I could donate, as if I don't donate enough of my money to pizza daily

    That's a really good idea. If i still lived back east i'd take a trip down to DC (was only about 2 hours from me) and order some pizza and support the business.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    It just feels too similar to the Satanic Panic to ignore it.

    The main difference is that the satanic panic relied on religious beliefs to justify far-fetched notions. Religion at the core requires certain leaps of faith.

    This on the other hand is not religious. It is not using artwork and events that are at their core innocent and presenting them in a dark light.

    There is nothing. There is no basement. None of this exists and yet it has swayed hundreds of thousands or maybe more?

    They're both absolutley insane conspiracy theories that center around vast networks of child rapists, Satanists, and cannibalism. True, one is a moral panic and the other a political propaganda piece, but they have more in common then not. I think the comparison stands.

    There's a big difference.



    While this is all conjecture. At least they are pointing to things that exist in the real world. Yes, there is a satanic church. Yes a lot of metal albums in the 80s and 70s literally depicted demons and had satanic lyrics.

    These are all real things being used to make the news story. The only real thing in pizzagate is a pizza shop and someone mentioning the pizza shop. That's why I think it's disingenuous to mention the two together. Pizzagate is a beast of an entirely different matter.

    The Satanic Church that actually exists has no relation to the Satan worshiping that the Satanic Panic imagined.

    Pedophilia is a real thing. Sex rings are a real thing. They are extremely uncommon but they exist.

    Pizzagate may qualify as a moral panic or not because full-blown moral panics like the Satanic Panic rely on proliferation by the media. While the mainstream media didn't talk about it until this guy shot the place up, the story was proliferating on social media and "news" sites. Shit doesn't have to be on 60 Minutes in order to qualify as being proliferated by the media any more.

    The thing is that the Satanic Panic was relying on (proven to be false) testimonies based on recovered memories. Pizzagate is based on... people suggesting that the words "pizza" and "hot dog" and "all ages show" are code for child sex ring stuff, rather than being items of food and events that a family restaurant and entertainment center provide. So I'm not sure if that disqualifies it.


    So uh, yeah, juries still out on whether or not it fully qualifies as a moral panic. But it's definitely a conspiracy theory based on the flimsiest of reasoning that has hit the big time.

    (For an example of a very recent moral panic: see anti-vaxxers.)


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  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    I think we're in this odd situation that is the result of something that been brewing in the alternative media for a long time, I'm not sure if there's one specific event that really accelerated this trend of crafting conspiracies out of EVERYTHING. Its more like a conspiracy singularity.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    Can we take a second and think about how absolutely terrifying this is for the shop owner?
    I mean, its hard enough to run a successful business as it is, let alone run one while accidently (through no fault of your own) getting caught in a nutbag right wing conspiracy theory.

    I feel really bad for the shop owner just trying to run a pizza place and now because people cant recognize reality, he has people showing up with guns.

    It's a family pizza joint. Who's going to risk taking their kids to eat at a place that might be assailed by nutcases, possibly armed, at any moment? I figure it'll go bust unless this blows over quickly.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    It'll go bust and be used as an example of businesses that democrats shut down.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    IANAL, but does this kinda shit get into "slander" territory, or the kind of law that says you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre?

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    IANAL, but does this kinda shit get into "slander" territory, or the kind of law that says you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre?

    You can't really sue Anonymous on the internet for slander. or Libel.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    IANAL, but does this kinda shit get into "slander" territory, or the kind of law that says you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre?

    You can't really sue Anonymous on the internet for slander. or Libel.

    Some of the people repeating this crap aren't anonymous.

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