Rockbreaker corruption zone is going to be my toughest challenge. Taking out two of them will not be easy.
There's two things that make that area a little easier. For one, there's a big rock formation you can climb on and strafe while taking them on. For two, the corrupted machines will actually piss off the non-corrupted machines. I actually had Longlegs, Snapmaws, and even Tramplers annoying them while I took them out.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
Orca on
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
It was heavily implied if not explicit that the GAIA subordinate functions were also AIs. The difference is probably Sobeck, who programmed GAIA to care,
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Oh, and the post-credits scene is a nice touch. HZD is a complete story, but he left themselves room for sequels. I appreciate that.
Rockbreaker corruption zone is going to be my toughest challenge. Taking out two of them will not be easy.
There's some ravagers nearby; a couple of Ravager cannons can be a big help with that one. It definitely felt like the hardest of all the corruption zones, though.
This is how I did it. Lugged two cannons over and opened up.
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
It was heavily implied if not explicit that the GAIA subordinate functions were also AIs. The difference is probably Sobeck, who programmed GAIA to care,
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Not exactly:
The sub functions weren't AIs. The signal that GAIA received made all of the sub-functions self-aware AI.
PSN: Holy-Promethium
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gaming_librarianTurn your face to the sun...Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
Finally beat this, love it so much! Maybe one of you can help me fill in the gaps to explain some dialog I got near endgame, that seemed to reflect a quest or series of quests that I had no memory of.
In Meridian, around what I think was either the "Looming Shadow" or "Face of Extinction" quests, I had to go and talk to Avad to inform him about the upcoming Eclipse attack and what was at stake. As we started talking, Avad asked if he could apologize for something. He went on to tell me he was sorry that he talked to me as if I was Ersa basically, apologizing for some spat he and ALoy apparently had via some dialog I don't recall encountering. Aloy responded in kind, saying that all was forgiven as long as he stopped confusing Aloy for Ersa, something to that effect. It was just...odd, to say the least. The exchange, while not overtly angry, had a bit of a tense tone, and I had no idea what they were referring to. Ever since I had met Avad, conversations had been fine, and I remember nothing about some sort of weird Aloy/Ersa/Avad relationship. Did I miss something?
Finally beat this, love it so much! Maybe one of you can help me fill in the gaps to explain some dialog I got near endgame, that seemed to reflect a quest or series of quests that I had no memory of.
In Meridian, around what I think was either the "Looming Shadow" or "Face of Extinction" quests, I had to go and talk to Avad to inform him about the upcoming Eclipse attack and what was at stake. As we started talking, Avad asked if he could apologize for something. He went on to tell me he was sorry that he talked to me as if I was Ersa basically, apologizing for some spat he and ALoy apparently had via some dialog I don't recall encountering. Aloy responded in kind, saying that all was forgiven as long as he stopped confusing Aloy for Ersa, something to that effect. It was just...odd, to say the least. The exchange, while not overtly angry, had a bit of a tense tone, and I had no idea what they were referring to. Ever since I had met Avad, conversations had been fine, and I remember nothing about some sort of weird Aloy/Ersa/Avad relationship. Did I miss something?
This was in reference to...
a conversation between Avad and Aloy where he started coming on to her. It was just after Aloy told him that Ersa had died, too. Aloy doesn't so much tell him off (it's a conversation choice, I believe?) as basically say "hey, this is kind of wrong, and I'm not your lover." I remember Aloy being direct, but not mad about it. And Avad's reaction was basically "shit, yeah, sorry."
This is totally off of memory from a few months back, so I'm sure I'm misremembering some of it. But that's the gist.
Finally beat this, love it so much! Maybe one of you can help me fill in the gaps to explain some dialog I got near endgame, that seemed to reflect a quest or series of quests that I had no memory of.
In Meridian, around what I think was either the "Looming Shadow" or "Face of Extinction" quests, I had to go and talk to Avad to inform him about the upcoming Eclipse attack and what was at stake. As we started talking, Avad asked if he could apologize for something. He went on to tell me he was sorry that he talked to me as if I was Ersa basically, apologizing for some spat he and ALoy apparently had via some dialog I don't recall encountering. Aloy responded in kind, saying that all was forgiven as long as he stopped confusing Aloy for Ersa, something to that effect. It was just...odd, to say the least. The exchange, while not overtly angry, had a bit of a tense tone, and I had no idea what they were referring to. Ever since I had met Avad, conversations had been fine, and I remember nothing about some sort of weird Aloy/Ersa/Avad relationship. Did I miss something?
It comes up when you go back after finding Ersa up in the mountains. I can't quite recall, though, if it's part of the dialogue required to progress the scene or just one of the flavor choices or whatever. He basically starts fluttering his eyelids and implying that he needs a strong female voice in his life now that Ersa's gone, hint hint hint. Aloy responds appropriately, with a variation on, "Too soon, and not in your wildest dreams Sun-King.".
PSN: amicabilis
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gaming_librarianTurn your face to the sun...Registered Userregular
Finally beat this, love it so much! Maybe one of you can help me fill in the gaps to explain some dialog I got near endgame, that seemed to reflect a quest or series of quests that I had no memory of.
In Meridian, around what I think was either the "Looming Shadow" or "Face of Extinction" quests, I had to go and talk to Avad to inform him about the upcoming Eclipse attack and what was at stake. As we started talking, Avad asked if he could apologize for something. He went on to tell me he was sorry that he talked to me as if I was Ersa basically, apologizing for some spat he and ALoy apparently had via some dialog I don't recall encountering. Aloy responded in kind, saying that all was forgiven as long as he stopped confusing Aloy for Ersa, something to that effect. It was just...odd, to say the least. The exchange, while not overtly angry, had a bit of a tense tone, and I had no idea what they were referring to. Ever since I had met Avad, conversations had been fine, and I remember nothing about some sort of weird Aloy/Ersa/Avad relationship. Did I miss something?
It comes up when you go back after finding Ersa up in the mountains. I can't quite recall, though, if it's part of the dialogue required to progress the scene or just one of the flavor choices or whatever. He basically starts fluttering his eyelids and implying that he needs a strong female voice in his life now that Ersa's gone, hint hint hint. Aloy responds appropriately, with a variation on, "Too soon, and not in your wildest dreams Sun-King.".
Ok, thanks all. I do remember:
a conversation with Avad mourning the loss of Ersa, and I do remember asking him if he and Ersa were in a relationship, to which he affirmed that. I must've never selected the romance options, though, because he never hit on Aloy, just lamented that he would miss her and that it would be difficult to replace her. He did ask if perhaps I could fill that "warchief" type role, but I declined. There was never a hint of hitting on or him asking for more than military assistance basically.
Finally beat this, love it so much! Maybe one of you can help me fill in the gaps to explain some dialog I got near endgame, that seemed to reflect a quest or series of quests that I had no memory of.
In Meridian, around what I think was either the "Looming Shadow" or "Face of Extinction" quests, I had to go and talk to Avad to inform him about the upcoming Eclipse attack and what was at stake. As we started talking, Avad asked if he could apologize for something. He went on to tell me he was sorry that he talked to me as if I was Ersa basically, apologizing for some spat he and ALoy apparently had via some dialog I don't recall encountering. Aloy responded in kind, saying that all was forgiven as long as he stopped confusing Aloy for Ersa, something to that effect. It was just...odd, to say the least. The exchange, while not overtly angry, had a bit of a tense tone, and I had no idea what they were referring to. Ever since I had met Avad, conversations had been fine, and I remember nothing about some sort of weird Aloy/Ersa/Avad relationship. Did I miss something?
It comes up when you go back after finding Ersa up in the mountains. I can't quite recall, though, if it's part of the dialogue required to progress the scene or just one of the flavor choices or whatever. He basically starts fluttering his eyelids and implying that he needs a strong female voice in his life now that Ersa's gone, hint hint hint. Aloy responds appropriately, with a variation on, "Too soon, and not in your wildest dreams Sun-King.".
Ok, thanks all. I do remember:
a conversation with Avad mourning the loss of Ersa, and I do remember asking him if he and Ersa were in a relationship, to which he affirmed that. I must've never selected the romance options, though, because he never hit on Aloy, just lamented that he would miss her and that it would be difficult to replace her. He did ask if perhaps I could fill that "warchief" type role, but I declined. There was never a hint of hitting on or him asking for more than military assistance basically.
That's interesting and weird!
Yeah, I'm 90% sure that there's an additional option as part of that warchief thing where he makes it clear it's warchief "with benefits."
PSN: amicabilis
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I was so hyped for this (I was sold at 'robot Dinosaurs' and the first gameplay video) but I really don't have time for games these days and it just fell off my radar. I found it for $40au so I grabbed it.
After losing myself in it for over 5 hours straight... was this the same Guerrilla that made Killzone? Why was Sony keeping them on that when they had this percolating in their minds? This is such a good game. Certainly the most interesting open world I've ever played, and most of what I've played this generation has been open world (Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed, Gravity Rush 2, Arkham Knight, infamous Second Son). The environments are stunning, the combat is tactical and challenging, the character interactions have some good conversation branches, the core concept behind the world and main character is really interesting and it's just so fun to play.
To a certain extent, it isn't the same Guerrilla that made the Killzone games, as Horizon involved a giant hiring endeavor that brought in a lot of new leadership talent. It's talked about a bit in this Dutch "Making of..." special:
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Ah, well there you go. I'm glad they did that, because while I did enjoy the Killzone games for what they were, this was a much better use of their talent.
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
It was heavily implied if not explicit that the GAIA subordinate functions were also AIs. The difference is probably Sobeck, who programmed GAIA to care,
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Oh, and the post-credits scene is a nice touch. HZD is a complete story, but he left themselves room for sequels. I appreciate that.
The 'signal' made each individual function self aware, and each one, since they were all built for a singular purpose, began to execute that purpose, but without the moderating touch of GAIA to ensure that there was still a path toward total recovery. To this end, HADES, who was basically built to render all life on Earth extinct, began to deliver on that protocol. HADES is only a villain insofar that it was basically created to be one, except with the implication that GAIA would be there to regain control. It's also why the robots became more and more aggressive over time.
The biggest question at the end of the story is 'what was that signal, and who sent it?' Something Sylens seems intent on finding out. The flaw that initially corrupted the robot swarm and the signal that let loose GAIAs subroutines seem very similar, and that Sobeck alluded to what the flaw was, but was never elaborated on, tells me that the two are linked though.
I hope that the new territory is integrated into the existing landscape, making use of the blocked roads up north by the Grave-whatever (and elsewhere).
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
It was heavily implied if not explicit that the GAIA subordinate functions were also AIs. The difference is probably Sobeck, who programmed GAIA to care,
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Oh, and the post-credits scene is a nice touch. HZD is a complete story, but he left themselves room for sequels. I appreciate that.
The 'signal' made each individual function self aware, and each one, since they were all built for a singular purpose, began to execute that purpose, but without the moderating touch of GAIA to ensure that there was still a path toward total recovery. To this end, HADES, who was basically built to render all life on Earth extinct, began to deliver on that protocol. HADES is only a villain insofar that it was basically created to be one, except with the implication that GAIA would be there to regain control. It's also why the robots became more and more aggressive over time.
The biggest question at the end of the story is 'what was that signal, and who sent it?' Something Sylens seems intent on finding out. The flaw that initially corrupted the robot swarm and the signal that let loose GAIAs subroutines seem very similar, and that Sobeck alluded to what the flaw was, but was never elaborated on, tells me that the two are linked though.
No, the robots getting more aggressive is the result of HEPHAESTUS going out of control. All those new weaponized bots are an AI going mad scientist. Corrupted enemies are HADES' work (and the Corruptor model, which it isn't clear where that comes from... probably the self-replicator functions of the Deathbringers? Because it certainly isn't coming out of the cauldrons).
That said, it seems like several of the subfunctions are harmless even after being made AI. Because uh... what's MINERVA going to do? Job done. APOLLO? Sabotaged by an guy gone mad. Whatever the human preservation one was, also job done (sort of - it appears the loss of APOLLO caused glitches in it).
The signal's source is an oddity for sure. It's the one thing the game left hanging, but hopefully we get some answers in the new DLC (eh, probably not, as Sylens was clearly headed into the West, Aloy's going North instead, possibly looking into restoring GAIA/finding more about Sobeck). I actually briefly thought it was the HADES Alpha, but he seems to have ultimately just been... highly eccentric. Also, from the timeline of things, the signal only happened like 20 years before the game or so? I don't recall when Sylens said GAIA self-destructed, so it couldn't have been any of the Alphas (directly). It's also unclear if there were any normal iterations of the HADES subfunction going online to reset the process.
The other question is if the Odyssey was sabotaged the same way. I could definitely see something being responsible for both the glitch in the Horus/Chariot lines and the Odyssey going kaboom. But the time scale doesn't work for GAIA's failure unless it was some malevolent AI someone left behind or something.
Anyways, that's my take, having just beaten the game last night.
So, beat the game. Story stuff, spoilers obviously.
I don't really understand what Hades was doing or why any of the Zero Dawn scientists thought it needed to exist. There's a good chance I missed some stuff, I'm missing a ton of the world data points, but I have most of the ones acquired through story locations and
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
As they were doing development, they found that Gaia would keep failed attempts at growing the new world going far after it was clear it was a failed attempt. Gaia was too nurturing of the life it created. So they came up with Hades, which was supposed to temporarily suspend Gaia's other functions, punch the reset switch on terraforming Earth (lol), and then step back out of the way when the process was complete.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
It was heavily implied if not explicit that the GAIA subordinate functions were also AIs. The difference is probably Sobeck, who programmed GAIA to care,
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Oh, and the post-credits scene is a nice touch. HZD is a complete story, but he left themselves room for sequels. I appreciate that.
The 'signal' made each individual function self aware, and each one, since they were all built for a singular purpose, began to execute that purpose, but without the moderating touch of GAIA to ensure that there was still a path toward total recovery. To this end, HADES, who was basically built to render all life on Earth extinct, began to deliver on that protocol. HADES is only a villain insofar that it was basically created to be one, except with the implication that GAIA would be there to regain control. It's also why the robots became more and more aggressive over time.
The biggest question at the end of the story is 'what was that signal, and who sent it?' Something Sylens seems intent on finding out. The flaw that initially corrupted the robot swarm and the signal that let loose GAIAs subroutines seem very similar, and that Sobeck alluded to what the flaw was, but was never elaborated on, tells me that the two are linked though.
No, the robots getting more aggressive is the result of HEPHAESTUS going out of control. All those new weaponized bots are an AI going mad scientist. Corrupted enemies are HADES' work (and the Corruptor model, which it isn't clear where that comes from... probably the self-replicator functions of the Deathbringers? Because it certainly isn't coming out of the cauldrons).
That said, it seems like several of the subfunctions are harmless even after being made AI. Because uh... what's MINERVA going to do? Job done. APOLLO? Sabotaged by an guy gone mad. Whatever the human preservation one was, also job done (sort of - it appears the loss of APOLLO caused glitches in it).
The signal's source is an oddity for sure. It's the one thing the game left hanging, but hopefully we get some answers in the new DLC (eh, probably not, as Sylens was clearly headed into the West, Aloy's going North instead, possibly looking into restoring GAIA/finding more about Sobeck). I actually briefly thought it was the HADES Alpha, but he seems to have ultimately just been... highly eccentric. Also, from the timeline of things, the signal only happened like 20 years before the game or so? I don't recall when Sylens said GAIA self-destructed, so it couldn't have been any of the Alphas (directly). It's also unclear if there were any normal iterations of the HADES subfunction going online to reset the process.
The other question is if the Odyssey was sabotaged the same way. I could definitely see something being responsible for both the glitch in the Horus/Chariot lines and the Odyssey going kaboom. But the time scale doesn't work for GAIA's failure unless it was some malevolent AI someone left behind or something.
Anyways, that's my take, having just beaten the game last night.
Corruptors are all from before the end of the world. They're the bots that made up the Faro Swarm, and Eclipse has been digging them up and getting them working again. HADES is just reprogramming them, and sending them out to reprogram all these new machines.
One of the Horus class 'Metal Devils' could be making new ones I guess, but there's no sign that any of those are still functional, which is probably the only reason anyone's still alive; one of those up and working could restart the entire apocalypse, and probably get enough of a head start that there'd be no hope of stopping it.
I think it says somewhere that the only reason you're able to take these things down so easily is that they've been decaying for centuries. Presumably arrows and fire wouldn't be so effective against them in peak condition (if they were, Operation Enduring Freedom should have just been Operation Use Fire Arrows Instead Of Bullets).
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
gaming_librarianTurn your face to the sun...Registered Userregular
edited June 2017
Yay expansion! I'm in love with this game, truly. I still am experiencing a range of serious feels that I haven't felt from a game in a long time. The story was just so beautiful, tragic, hopeful, fun. I had several moments where I audibly gasped, teared up, laughed, or let a rage-induced "NO!" pop out on a few occasions.
I just got this in the psn sale and it's amazing. I've been missing out
About to go to the proving after first night playing. There's been a learning curve fighting each machine but it's kinda like an extension of the aloy learning to hunt montage
Quick q though. Is there any way to lock the camera behind a shoulder? In the AR mode it snaps to over the right shoulder which I prefer, but after a bit of normal gameplay it seems to list over to the left. It's not a super big deal, it'd just be nice if it would stay put.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I got the artbook for this and yeah, holy shit! There's a lot of thought in the different tribes. Got plat too, ended up looking up the locations of the last few Grazer targets, had everything else done from just playing through the game.
The best moment through it all is "Aloy, despite the Nora!" for me.
Zero dawn is a game that for the first time in a long while left me wanting more of it in a good way.
Yeah, it's become depressingly normal for even good games to basically hack off a chunk of the main to sell back as DLC, instead of just providing a full complete game that you want to play more of in the form of DLC.
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Tearblast arrows are great. And then you get the Tearblaster and you will realize the real sadistic glee of watching tons of machine parts flying through the air at all times.
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There's two things that make that area a little easier. For one, there's a big rock formation you can climb on and strafe while taking them on. For two, the corrupted machines will actually piss off the non-corrupted machines. I actually had Longlegs, Snapmaws, and even Tramplers annoying them while I took them out.
Why was HADES baked into the system along with the other subprojects like APOLLO and HAPHAESTUS? They were worried that GAIA would go wild terraforming stuff without some kind of failsafe? And that failsafe wasn't to stop the terraforming process, but to eradicate life all over again?
At first I thought Faro sabotaged the program and snuck HADES in there, but that can't be right because HADES is one of the names that appears in the Sobeck hologram in the All-Mother Mountain facility. It seems like Ted just went bonkers, wiped APOLLO, and killed the remaining Alphas because...? (And incidentally,
who is he talking to off-screen in that hologram telling them to "stop trying to access the goddamn system"? HADES? Did he spoil that too?
Seems like there's something I missed along the way.
The idea undoubtedly being to minimize wasted resources. There are only so many seeds in the seed banks, so many zygotes in the uterine replicators, so much nutrient available for the nascent bacteria, plants, and animals. We see this in Eleuthia 9, where they ran out of food for the humans and turned them out, and then later on when Aloy was birthed.
As of the end of the game we don't know why Hades was triggered--just that milliseconds before the Derangement, some kind of signal triggered Hades to activate, and Gaia self-destructed in an attempt to keep Hades from wiping out what was otherwise a viable Earth (hence the Derangement). It should be noted that this means that Gaia managed to subvert its programming; by rights Gaia should not have been able to stop Hades.
Hades is also much more inventive in how it attempts to achieve its aims than I would have expected. Each of the sub-functions is probably a full-blown AI...(I can't remember if they said the sub-functions were full blown AIs or were just a bit short of it)
I think this is approximately right, but I could have some details wrong. Someone else can probably elaborate and clarify.
whereas the other Alpha scientists may not have considered that as part of their programs.
But there's still a lot of open questions in the story.
Oh, and the post-credits scene is a nice touch. HZD is a complete story, but he left themselves room for sequels. I appreciate that.
This is how I did it. Lugged two cannons over and opened up.
Not exactly:
This was in reference to...
Ok, thanks all. I do remember:
After losing myself in it for over 5 hours straight... was this the same Guerrilla that made Killzone? Why was Sony keeping them on that when they had this percolating in their minds? This is such a good game. Certainly the most interesting open world I've ever played, and most of what I've played this generation has been open world (Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed, Gravity Rush 2, Arkham Knight, infamous Second Son). The environments are stunning, the combat is tactical and challenging, the character interactions have some good conversation branches, the core concept behind the world and main character is really interesting and it's just so fun to play.
The biggest question at the end of the story is 'what was that signal, and who sent it?' Something Sylens seems intent on finding out. The flaw that initially corrupted the robot swarm and the signal that let loose GAIAs subroutines seem very similar, and that Sobeck alluded to what the flaw was, but was never elaborated on, tells me that the two are linked though.
That said, it seems like several of the subfunctions are harmless even after being made AI. Because uh... what's MINERVA going to do? Job done. APOLLO? Sabotaged by an guy gone mad. Whatever the human preservation one was, also job done (sort of - it appears the loss of APOLLO caused glitches in it).
The signal's source is an oddity for sure. It's the one thing the game left hanging, but hopefully we get some answers in the new DLC (eh, probably not, as Sylens was clearly headed into the West, Aloy's going North instead, possibly looking into restoring GAIA/finding more about Sobeck). I actually briefly thought it was the HADES Alpha, but he seems to have ultimately just been... highly eccentric. Also, from the timeline of things, the signal only happened like 20 years before the game or so? I don't recall when Sylens said GAIA self-destructed, so it couldn't have been any of the Alphas (directly). It's also unclear if there were any normal iterations of the HADES subfunction going online to reset the process.
The other question is if the Odyssey was sabotaged the same way. I could definitely see something being responsible for both the glitch in the Horus/Chariot lines and the Odyssey going kaboom. But the time scale doesn't work for GAIA's failure unless it was some malevolent AI someone left behind or something.
Anyways, that's my take, having just beaten the game last night.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
One of the Horus class 'Metal Devils' could be making new ones I guess, but there's no sign that any of those are still functional, which is probably the only reason anyone's still alive; one of those up and working could restart the entire apocalypse, and probably get enough of a head start that there'd be no hope of stopping it.
I think it says somewhere that the only reason you're able to take these things down so easily is that they've been decaying for centuries. Presumably arrows and fire wouldn't be so effective against them in peak condition (if they were, Operation Enduring Freedom should have just been Operation Use Fire Arrows Instead Of Bullets).
Banuk DLC. I really hope we get some more machine types--there's a hint that we might get one, but I'm not sure it will be much more than that.
I'll play it, because I really enjoy exploring the setting.
Might have to dive back in...
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
And Banuk to boot.
Yesssss.
About to go to the proving after first night playing. There's been a learning curve fighting each machine but it's kinda like an extension of the aloy learning to hunt montage
Quick q though. Is there any way to lock the camera behind a shoulder? In the AR mode it snaps to over the right shoulder which I prefer, but after a bit of normal gameplay it seems to list over to the left. It's not a super big deal, it'd just be nice if it would stay put.
The best moment through it all is "Aloy, despite the Nora!" for me.
Zero dawn is a game that for the first time in a long while left me wanting more of it in a good way.
Yeah, it's become depressingly normal for even good games to basically hack off a chunk of the main to sell back as DLC, instead of just providing a full complete game that you want to play more of in the form of DLC.
I was literally singing this while it was playing.
That's probably more useful than I originally thought
https://www.reddit.com/r/horizon/comments/6llafo/horizon_zero_dawn_new_game_and_more_in_patch_130/