Honestly I don't remember nearly this many thinkpieces about the problems with DC when they were really struggling from about 2013 to 2016.
I think the horrible faceplant they have recently done in regards to their messaging about diverse characters and books starring them is a large part of that
DC sucked for a good long while but I don't think Didio ever blamed that on diverse characters and then tried to say how important they are right before cancelling their only all-black character team title after 6 issues
+5
masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
Honestly I don't remember nearly this many thinkpieces about the problems with DC when they were really struggling from about 2013 to 2016.
DC didn't have a thriving entertainment empire to waste at the time
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Yeah and DC had the luxury of mostly just doing bad comics. Not doing bad politically charged comics in the worst possible time to do bad politically charged comics.
+22
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
This sentence really stuck out to me
Instead of simply telling people to buy their books, they could instruct new audiences how.
coupled with a shift in the value placed on singles sales towards trades and they'd be in a far more sustainable position imo.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
And Mike (the LCS owner) says that doesn't matter.
Considering he's been working in the industry since 1982 I take his word seriously.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
And Mike (the LCS owner) says that doesn't matter.
Considering he's been working in the industry since 1982 I take his word seriously.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
And Mike (the LCS owner) says that doesn't matter.
Considering he's been working in the industry since 1982 I take his word seriously.
I think Mike has no idea what he's talking about since he doesn't work at Marvel and has no idea what being owned by Disney has done for them
like
Mike is likely a totally fine guy but "guy who has been in the comic shop business for almost 40 years" is not really someone I trust to have an objective opinion about what would be best for the comics market developing past just selling at comic shops
+12
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Marvel would in no way bankrupt itself by using Disney's publishing arm. Like saying Hyrda aren't Nazis is more believable than that.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
And Mike (the LCS owner) says that doesn't matter.
Considering he's been working in the industry since 1982 I take his word seriously.
I think Mike has no idea what he's talking about since he doesn't work at Marvel and has no idea what being owned by Disney has done for them
like
Mike is likely a totally fine guy but "guy who has been in the comic shop business for almost 40 years" is not really someone I trust to have an objective opinion about what would be best for the comics market developing past just selling at comic shops
He's not against comics being sold outside shops to be clear.
He just says people who rally against the current system don't know what it's like to work in it. And he fully agrees the system needs fixing.
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
edited May 2017
Any system that requires comic creators to get out and explain to readers how to get their books even into shops is a system that is totally and utterly broken imho
Any system that requires comic creators to get out and explain to readers how to get their books even into shops is a system that is totally and utterly broken imho
yeah well what would you know, you only make comics
Any system that requires comic creators to get out and explain to readers how to get their books even into shops is a system that is totally and utterly broken imho
yeah well what would you know, you only make comics
In fairness I'm a small fry in a supersized combo.
He's also completely in agreement with Marvel being full of shit regarding Hydra and their general problems, which they can't blame on the direct market.
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Instead of simply telling people to buy their books, they could instruct new audiences how.
coupled with a shift in the value placed on singles sales towards trades and they'd be in a far more sustainable position imo.
This got me interested.
How is it that the Marvel website and books don't have a single thing relating to comic book stores?
I used to be huge into Games-Workshop games and they had a store locator that not only let you find the nearby GW stores, but every local game store retailer in the area. There was a list of new GW and LGS that carried GW products in a one page ad on their magazines.
The Marvel site doesn't even seem to mention that comic book stores exist. There isn't any store locator, there isn't any page mentioning comic book stores in the comics. Nothin. Pushing your direct distribution I get, but not even mentioning the only physical places that you can get the comics you make?
Honestly the most eye opening thing I saw in the Atlantic story is how they chose Ewing's Avengers books as an example of branding/relaunching gone wrong, which I hadn't ever really considered since I was just happily buying them
Started as Mighty Avengers (the second series of that name)
Relaunched into Captain America and the Mighty Avengers after a year
then New Avengers (the...fourth? Series of that name) and Ultimates (also the fourth) which incorporated characters and plot elements from Mighty Avengers
then Ultimates 2 and USAvengers both of which used characters and elements from all previous runs
Which is a hell of a path for a new fan to follow if they were just wanting to pick up Ewing's stuff. I love that Ewing is basically just constantly telling one huge story, but that is some incredibly poor clarity as far as showing the lineage of these books and the connection between them that I never would have picked up on since I'm used to it
EDIT: and that doesn't include Contest of Champions which has factored into both of the current books as well
BlankZoe on
+4
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Yes it does!
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
Yeah.
The tl;dr version of how it works is basically that Marvel can go bankrupt, but it won't matter because Disney won't allow their cash cow to be sold for parts. So Disney will settle whatever debts Marvel owes to keep them afloat.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
No matter how broken the direct market is, Marvel publishing their own books fucking bankrupted them near 20 years ago. Being owned by Disney isn't going to change that. I talked to this with my LCS owner who's been dealing with Diamond since the 80's and he says that people who want the current system to die don't know what they're talking about. Oh sure the system needs fixing but Disney and WB sure as shit would be worse options.
Why is publishing comics so difficult.
Trying to self publish was one of SEVERAL backfiring ideas that bankrupted Marvel. (Another was buying a trading card company nearly around the exact moment the market dropped out on that industry)
In theory, if they had made one less bad decision, they could have rode things out.
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Their movies and comic division are totally different things
Marvel's response; Hydra aren't Nazi's.
You don't get to adopt nazi styling and actions whole sale and then hedge back by saying, not nazis
http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-is-dc-comics-doing-a-better-job-of-celebrating-jack-1795472475
The answer of course being because the comics part of marvel comics is pants on head stupid right now
I thought they were putting Inhumans in camps.
DC sucked for a good long while but I don't think Didio ever blamed that on diverse characters and then tried to say how important they are right before cancelling their only all-black character team title after 6 issues
coupled with a shift in the value placed on singles sales towards trades and they'd be in a far more sustainable position imo.
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Why is publishing comics so difficult.
They went from being entirely self-owned to having the backing of one of the largest corporations on the planet!!!!!
And Mike (the LCS owner) says that doesn't matter.
Considering he's been working in the industry since 1982 I take his word seriously.
well my lcs owner says mike is full of horseshit
like
Mike is likely a totally fine guy but "guy who has been in the comic shop business for almost 40 years" is not really someone I trust to have an objective opinion about what would be best for the comics market developing past just selling at comic shops
He's not against comics being sold outside shops to be clear.
He just says people who rally against the current system don't know what it's like to work in it. And he fully agrees the system needs fixing.
yeah well what would you know, you only make comics
In fairness I'm a small fry in a supersized combo.
Smart people are often wrong, especially when there is bias
They were doing both, and then with this deal just expelling all the mutants? I dunno.
I mean, DC just had bad writing. They weren't doing anything catastrophivally wrong, the editorial direction was just stupid.
This got me interested.
How is it that the Marvel website and books don't have a single thing relating to comic book stores?
I used to be huge into Games-Workshop games and they had a store locator that not only let you find the nearby GW stores, but every local game store retailer in the area. There was a list of new GW and LGS that carried GW products in a one page ad on their magazines.
The Marvel site doesn't even seem to mention that comic book stores exist. There isn't any store locator, there isn't any page mentioning comic book stores in the comics. Nothin. Pushing your direct distribution I get, but not even mentioning the only physical places that you can get the comics you make?
Started as Mighty Avengers (the second series of that name)
Relaunched into Captain America and the Mighty Avengers after a year
then New Avengers (the...fourth? Series of that name) and Ultimates (also the fourth) which incorporated characters and plot elements from Mighty Avengers
then Ultimates 2 and USAvengers both of which used characters and elements from all previous runs
Which is a hell of a path for a new fan to follow if they were just wanting to pick up Ewing's stuff. I love that Ewing is basically just constantly telling one huge story, but that is some incredibly poor clarity as far as showing the lineage of these books and the connection between them that I never would have picked up on since I'm used to it
EDIT: and that doesn't include Contest of Champions which has factored into both of the current books as well
Yeah.
The tl;dr version of how it works is basically that Marvel can go bankrupt, but it won't matter because Disney won't allow their cash cow to be sold for parts. So Disney will settle whatever debts Marvel owes to keep them afloat.
Trying to self publish was one of SEVERAL backfiring ideas that bankrupted Marvel. (Another was buying a trading card company nearly around the exact moment the market dropped out on that industry)
In theory, if they had made one less bad decision, they could have rode things out.