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Nothing Can Stop the [MARVEL]naut!

Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2 - May 5



Spider-Man: Homecoming - July 7th



Thor: Ragnarok - November 3rd



And don't forget Cloak and Dagger - Coming 2018!



IT'S NEVER GOING TO END!

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Posts

  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY im alucard Registered User regular
    Dang, I was just thinking about making The [Marvel] Thread Was a Nazi All Along

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    THESPOOKY wrote: »
    Dang, I was just thinking about making The [Marvel] Thread Was a Nazi All Along

    Hail :hydra:

    Bobble on
  • -Tal-Tal The history of Hyrule is the history of the Calamity Ganon. Registered User regular
    Adolf Hydra retire bitch

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    So about that Secret Empire issue 0 spoiler from BC...

    Unless I missed something, it does not specifically say the nazi's won WW2. The allies created the cosmic cube to make sure they won.

    It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.


    Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.

    wirehead26 on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    The Whedons are not being subtle in AoS with the dog whistling to the fans.
    Last week they had Hydra Fitz make a "Make the world great again" speech, this week they snuck in a "nevertheless she persisted".

    They're kinda doing this inversion thing well though. They're not shying away from the politics of it.

    Dedwrekka on
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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    So about that Secret Empire issue 0 spoiler from BC...

    Unless I missed something, it does not specifically say the nazi's won WW2. The allies created the cosmic cube to make sure they won.

    It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.


    Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.

    Does it really matter?
    I mean, a lot of people seem to be making a lot of hoopla about something that can be traced back to when Kobik gave Steve back his youth and Super-Soldier-ness. I mean, any changes to the timeline are rooted to that. Yeah, the idea that in the new timeline the Nazis would have won is kinda dire but in the end it's still due to reality shifting around to adjust to Steve's brainwashing, going as far as to keep his past heroic acts intact in the altered history. Once said history's restored back to how it originally was, things will mostly go back to normal outside of the huge amount of guilt Steve's going to be going through for the next few years or so over what he unwittingly did due to his altered past.

    Spoit
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    Owenashi wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    So about that Secret Empire issue 0 spoiler from BC...

    Unless I missed something, it does not specifically say the nazi's won WW2. The allies created the cosmic cube to make sure they won.

    It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.


    Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.

    Does it really matter?
    I mean, a lot of people seem to be making a lot of hoopla about something that can be traced back to when Kobik gave Steve back his youth and Super-Soldier-ness. I mean, any changes to the timeline are rooted to that. Yeah, the idea that in the new timeline the Nazis would have won is kinda dire but in the end it's still due to reality shifting around to adjust to Steve's brainwashing, going as far as to keep his past heroic acts intact in the altered history. Once said history's restored back to how it originally was, things will mostly go back to normal outside of the huge amount of guilt Steve's going to be going through for the next few years or so over what he unwittingly did due to his altered past.

    Spencer is now teasing that the alternate history presented so far after the Kobik incident in Standoff is the real history, only changed by the Allies using the Cube. That's what's pissing everyone off.

    However, nothing will be known for sure till Steve gets hold of Kobik again, which is a big plot point now in SE.

    wirehead26 on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Owenashi wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    So about that Secret Empire issue 0 spoiler from BC...

    Unless I missed something, it does not specifically say the nazi's won WW2. The allies created the cosmic cube to make sure they won.

    It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.


    Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.

    Does it really matter?
    I mean, a lot of people seem to be making a lot of hoopla about something that can be traced back to when Kobik gave Steve back his youth and Super-Soldier-ness. I mean, any changes to the timeline are rooted to that. Yeah, the idea that in the new timeline the Nazis would have won is kinda dire but in the end it's still due to reality shifting around to adjust to Steve's brainwashing, going as far as to keep his past heroic acts intact in the altered history. Once said history's restored back to how it originally was, things will mostly go back to normal outside of the huge amount of guilt Steve's going to be going through for the next few years or so over what he unwittingly did due to his altered past.


    It's not that they're doing something that's obviously going to get reversed. It's that what they're doing with making Captain America a Hydra supporter with huge Nazi overtones, undertones, and sometimes just tones, is hitting at a time when a lot of people are dealing with the rise of White Nationalism in the US and abroad. And people just don't want to deal with that in the comics too.

    And on top of that Marvel and Spencer have been making comments about how they aren't going to make this political. So on top of Cap turning nazi we aren't even getting an attempt at satire out of it, much less a good pick-me-up thing about 'nations going through hard times and the American spirit persevering and it being above what America is now' that people kind of look to Captain America for.

    And that kind of makes it feel like more of a betrayal because this is the comic character who was created to convince the US to enter the war against Nazis when the nation was actually looking like it might tip the other way. This was the character who refused Nixon after Watergate broke. This is exactly the kind of character who is built to make political statements about the state of America.

    And they aren't even going to let Sam Wilson take that stand as Captain America instead of Steve.

    It's poorly timed, and just seems so empty when people are looking for the comics to say and be more.

    ArdolFencingsax-Talnever dieWeedLordVegetaBlankzillaMidniteZonugalmasterofmetroidRomanian My EscutcheonRainfallDarkPrimusGnome-InterruptusMvrckBear_thescondToxdarunia106ArmorocMatevGatorStilts
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »

    And they aren't even going to let Sam Wilson take that stand as Captain America instead of Steve.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The Fantastic Four really did a shitty job reassembling the Marvel universe.

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  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    I feel like Kieran Shiach's, former editor of Comics Alliance, article about Secret Empire covers a lot of what people's frustrations with the event as a whole are:

    http://www.polygon.com/comics/2017/4/18/15327018/secret-empire-explained
    Nick Spencer would like to have a story about the shocking revelation that Captain America — the Sentinel of Liberty — has actually stood with his greatest foes all along, without examining what those villains stand for and the heavy real-world consequences of allowing their ideology to flourish. Fascism and totalitarianism are rooted in bigoted ideologies. You can’t just invoke the imagery of such a group without readers interpreting it that way. Spencer’s fundamental insistence that Hydra isn’t a fascistic, totalitarian regime undermines the reveal that Steve Rogers is a member of the group, because Hydra needs to stand for the opposite of Captain America’s values in order for his allegiance to it to be in any way shocking.

    Steve Rogers may not wear a swastika while touting the virtues of the Aryan race; by the strictest definition, he may not be a Nazi. But there’s little fundamental difference when the character’s current incarnation seeks to install a regime dedicated to terror, submission and oppression.

    I think this is the most important thing that people forget about US government. Moses didn't come down Mt Rushmore with the Bill of Rights on a tablet from God.
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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    The Fantastic Four really did a shitty job reassembling the Marvel universe.

    Well it seems like there's more going on with that then what was seen at the end of Secret Wars considering Ultimate Reed Richards' post-SW status not to mention what's happening in the Ultimates' title.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Revenge of Purple Steve Registered User regular
    Man, Marvel is REALLY stretching the definition of "Classic" with Deadpool Classic Volume 20: Ultimate Deadpool
    Meet the Deadpool of the Ultimate Universe - and a few other Multiversal mercs for good measure! When Ultimate Spider-Man visits the X-Mansion, he fi nds it's been taken over by his world's Wadey Wilson -and the Reavers! Will other realities have more delightful Deadpools? Find out in a tour across dimensions that showcases animated Deadpool, MC2 Deadpool, samurai Deadpool and more! But who is the Deadpool of Counter-Earth? And what happens when the Venom symbiote possesses Deadpool?!

    COLLECTING: ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN (2000) 91-94; HEROES REBORN: REMNANTS 1; EXILES (2001) 5-6, 12-13, 66-68; VENOM/DEADPOOL: WHAT IF?; 5 RONIN 1-5; MARVEL ADVENTURES SUPER HEROES (2010) 4; MARVEL UNIVERSE ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN: WEB WARRIORS 8; MATERIAL FROM J2 11, SECRET WARS: BATTLEWORLD 3, SECRET WARS, TOO 1

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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Wasn't Ultimate Deadpool a serious mutant-hater? I mean, I'm trying to think back on the character and that's like the only thing that sticks out about him in my mind. Well, that and I think he got killed in the same story he showed up in.

    FencingsaxMatev
  • Green LanternGreen Lantern Registered User regular
    The only good thing about ultimate deadpool was his part in spider-man shattered dimensions

    ErilianaMatev
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Owenashi wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    So about that Secret Empire issue 0 spoiler from BC...

    Unless I missed something, it does not specifically say the nazi's won WW2. The allies created the cosmic cube to make sure they won.

    It's a bit ambiguous honestly because the opening of the issue involves the secret leader of Hydra in 1945 implying that the current Marvel universe is altered but we still don't know how much of it is Kobik and Red Skull fuckery.


    Bottom line, it's not 100 percent certain Steve has been Hydra all along.

    Does it really matter?
    I mean, a lot of people seem to be making a lot of hoopla about something that can be traced back to when Kobik gave Steve back his youth and Super-Soldier-ness. I mean, any changes to the timeline are rooted to that. Yeah, the idea that in the new timeline the Nazis would have won is kinda dire but in the end it's still due to reality shifting around to adjust to Steve's brainwashing, going as far as to keep his past heroic acts intact in the altered history. Once said history's restored back to how it originally was, things will mostly go back to normal outside of the huge amount of guilt Steve's going to be going through for the next few years or so over what he unwittingly did due to his altered past.


    It's not that they're doing something that's obviously going to get reversed. It's that what they're doing with making Captain America a Hydra supporter with huge Nazi overtones, undertones, and sometimes just tones, is hitting at a time when a lot of people are dealing with the rise of White Nationalism in the US and abroad. And people just don't want to deal with that in the comics too.

    And on top of that Marvel and Spencer have been making comments about how they aren't going to make this political. So on top of Cap turning nazi we aren't even getting an attempt at satire out of it, much less a good pick-me-up thing about 'nations going through hard times and the American spirit persevering and it being above what America is now' that people kind of look to Captain America for.

    And that kind of makes it feel like more of a betrayal because this is the comic character who was created to convince the US to enter the war against Nazis when the nation was actually looking like it might tip the other way. This was the character who refused Nixon after Watergate broke. This is exactly the kind of character who is built to make political statements about the state of America.

    And they aren't even going to let Sam Wilson take that stand as Captain America instead of Steve.

    It's poorly timed, and just seems so empty when people are looking for the comics to say and be more.

    mostly it's just that okay, if this story isn't about all these political/ideological issues... what is it about and why should I care? When the villain is red skull, zemo or any of the other villains who've helmed hydra at one time or another we basically know what they want: to rule the world or at least a large chunk of it in classic totalitarian style. We're given to understand that HydraCap wants to do something different, but what that is it? Should we find it remotely sympathetic? Who knows!

    I kinda think they fell into the same trap that Vote Loki did; seemed like a neat pitch, but then got overtaken by current events. Vote Loki was just a short mini so whatever but this story couldn't be similarly abandoned

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    accept your death, and become dangerous
    Spoit
  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Steaaaaaaam All Along The Watchtower: A DCAU Podcast. NEW EPISODE - EPISODE 42 - Tools of the Trade (Superman: The Animated Series S01E12) - August 9th
  • DysDys Registered User regular
    I went through and read all of Scarlet Spider starring Kaine, the one where he's in Houston.

    It had some fantastic moments, but did the book get unexpectedly cancelled or something? The last issue of it wrapped up everything far too quickly in a very unsatisfying way, not to mention that it never got to the big plot event it kept building towards.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    To each their own, I think Spencer has done a great job setting the whole thing up along with the execution so far.

  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt DON'T call me annie... unless you're my friendRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    So apparently Marvel is out to wreck the history of Steve Rogers for ratings, cool.

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    So apparently Marvel is out to wreck the history of Steve Rogers for ratings, cool.

    This is the part that worries me and others, cause unless something happens in the main story to dissuade it Steve really has been Hydra all along.

    But it's also possible the dark forces that have been revealed to be behind Hydra has manipulated the whole chain of events to make sure Steve is Hydra.

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    That Cloak and Dagger trailer isn't the most coherent thing in the world but I think it could be a good show

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    I am curious if the roar would be as loud if Nick Spencer just stepped away from twitter after revealing Steve as a Hydra agent. Not that would (or should) curtail all criticism of the event, but it definitely wouldn't be a situation of him constantly dumping gasoline onto the fire.

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  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Hot take: secret empire would have worked perfectly fine and had a better response if it was Tony instead of steve

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    Also unless I'm totally off base Spencer is using a character from Jonathan Hickman's SHIELD book as the secret head of Hydra.

    wirehead26 on
  • StraightziStraightzi Taking things many steps at a time Registered User regular
    Hot take: secret empire would have worked perfectly fine and had a better response if it was Tony instead of steve

    Tony has a well established history of being a supervillain, yeah

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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    edited April 20
    Hot take: secret empire would have worked perfectly fine and had a better response if it was Tony instead of steve
    Oh 100%

    Literally any character other than Steve Rogers (or Sam Wilson) and I would be pretty down with this event

    Blankzilla on
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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    Hot take: secret empire would have worked perfectly fine and had a better response if it was Tony instead of steve

    Literally any other character than the one that represents American ideals

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Hot take: secret empire would have worked perfectly fine and had a better response if it was Tony instead of steve

    Tony has a well established history of being a supervillain, yeah

    Actual Supervillain Tony would more likely have a plan to kill all the Nazis after he won though. Because he isn't stupid enough to trust Hydra in any form.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point

    But the reason it's the best structured even since Infinity is because all of the evwnts since then have been, regardless of quality, quite badly put together.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point

    But the reason it's the best structured even since Infinity is because all of the evwnts since then have been, regardless of quality, quite badly put together.

    Secret Wars?

  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point

    But the reason it's the best structured even since Infinity is because all of the evwnts since then have been, regardless of quality, quite badly put together.
    That doesn't make the structure not good?

    Like, I genuinely think Secret Empire is set up very smart and in a way that will organically incorporate most of the Marvel Universe

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    I had a long conversation with another comic creator the other night about the whole thing. And I had some more competent thoughts on it than slamming my head into a wall on every Nick Spencer tweet.

    Like ok. On paper I think there is definitely an interesting story in discovering your heroes, your country, and what not are in fact fascists. Nazis, really. And how to go forward knowing those ramifications, and how you fight something as entrenched as that it might turn out to be. It's frighteningly relevant and potentially cathartic and engaging. But it really requires a confidence of storytelling to really go all in. You also need to really sit down and think it through, because well politically tumultuous stories need a fine (and knowledgable) hand. Also, if you are doing this as an serial comic, you have to realize using your cliffhangers is potentially dangerous. Also that it can swing into looking like support of fascism on a dime, regardless of your intentions. (basically don't do it as a monthly comic dummy)

    But. and this is a huge fucking BUT like oh my god becky

    Some of the audience won't be able to buy into your premise at any level. And that's their prerogative. I don't care how much of a critical indie darling you are. Some people will not be able to get over the anxieties and problematic territory you are running into. If you are confident in the story, fine. Whatever tell it I guess. But you can't expect the same level of confidence in your story. That's a risk, and that's really storytelling. You do something risky. And those come with consequences. And the audience is in no way wrong not to want to buy into things on just a premise level. Especially when you are doing a hard turn. But if you are really confident this story will be worth it in the end, you put your head down and work.

    What you don't fucking do. What you don't fucking do it all is dig your heels and shout at every person who has issues with the comic. You don't tweet search your name to retweet it with some snide bullshit. You don't conflate people pointing out that this might be distasteful with the comic nerds saying they want to punch you. You don't fucking comment on every review with "Well they don't fucking understand real politics" or "The true threat to our times is freedom of speech" or whatever. You gotta fucking understand you are doing an ugly story in ugly times. You have to look at the optics of who the owner of your company supports my dude. Have confidence in your work if it isn't a comic designed only for courting controversy (which I'm not sure it's anything but that, but whatever) Just release a simple statement (well too late now really) That you "understand the issues one might have with this story, I hope that many have confidence that I will navigate it carefully. For those unable to, I understand. But given the nature of serial storytelling and the tumultuous nature of the arc I will draw back from commentary on the story until it is completed" Then delete twitter from your phone for the summer. Will that solve the problems folks have and turn them to your side? No, and it probably shouldn't. But what it will do is at least stop you from saying stupid stuff while tripping over yourself to defend your story. the "Hydra aren't nazis" and whatever.

    Though really. It's probably just a better idea to not turn Captain America into a Nazi for a summer event premise.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Structurally I think Secret Empire is the best designed event they've had since Infinity, probably. Each corner of the Marvel Universe (except the X-Men because they're busy with the Ressurexion relaunch and for once they are mostly letting them breath outside of one or two tie ins) has their own little mini event (The street level NYC crew and Doctor Strange are stuck fighting a guerilla war against Baron Mordo and Zemo, all of the heavy hitters and cosmic heroes are stuck on the wrong side of Earth's new cosmic shield fighting wave after wave of Chitauri, the young heroes are being recruited by Black Widow to be the underground resistance, etc.) and each of those stories feed back into the main plot line, which is really how all events should work.

    But the central plot is so diametrically opposed to what I want out of comics right now that the well designed flow of the event doesn't matter that much to me

    Maybe in a few years I will want to sit down and read it and I'll really enjoy it, but 2017 ain't that time for me

    Eh, basic competence of structure should not be a selling point

    it's not like marvel is touting it on some PR tour; a fan or critic saying it's structured well is a fine selling point

    But the reason it's the best structured even since Infinity is because all of the evwnts since then have been, regardless of quality, quite badly put together.

    Secret Wars?

    Secret Wars was great, but there were so many titles going in and out of being part of the narrative, and also at the end the new status quo began before all the Secret Wars titles were done that I think it wasn't done well.

    If that isn't what we're talking about then yes, I agree, because that was basically one of the only things Secret Wars dropped the ball on.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    honovere
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Thankfully Secret Empire has rotating artists so that's less chance for delays.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 20
    Gustav wrote: »
    I had a long conversation with another comic creator the other night about the whole thing. And I had some more competent thoughts on it than slamming my head into a wall on every Nick Spencer tweet.

    Like ok. On paper I think there is definitely an interesting story in discovering your heroes, your country, and what not are in fact fascists. Nazis, really. And how to go forward knowing those ramifications, and how you fight something as entrenched as that it might turn out to be. It's frighteningly relevant and potentially cathartic and engaging. But it really requires a confidence of storytelling to really go all in. You also need to really sit down and think it through, because well politically tumultuous stories need a fine (and knowledgable) hand. Also, if you are doing this as an serial comic, you have to realize using your cliffhangers is potentially dangerous. Also that it can swing into looking like support of fascism on a dime, regardless of your intentions. (basically don't do it as a monthly comic dummy)

    But. and this is a huge fucking BUT like oh my god becky

    Some of the audience won't be able to buy into your premise at any level. And that's their prerogative. I don't care how much of a critical indie darling you are. Some people will not be able to get over the anxieties and problematic territory you are running into. If you are confident in the story, fine. Whatever tell it I guess. But you can't expect the same level of confidence in your story. That's a risk, and that's really storytelling. You do something risky. And those come with consequences. And the audience is in no way wrong not to want to buy into things on just a premise level. Especially when you are doing a hard turn. But if you are really confident this story will be worth it in the end, you put your head down and work.

    What you don't fucking do. What you don't fucking do it all is dig your heels and shout at every person who has issues with the comic. You don't tweet search your name to retweet it with some snide bullshit. You don't conflate people pointing out that this might be distasteful with the comic nerds saying they want to punch you. You don't fucking comment on every review with "Well they don't fucking understand real politics" or "The true threat to our times is freedom of speech" or whatever. You gotta fucking understand you are doing an ugly story in ugly times. You have to look at the optics of who the owner of your company supports my dude. Have confidence in your work if it isn't a comic designed only for courting controversy (which I'm not sure it's anything but that, but whatever) Just release a simple statement (well too late now really) That you "understand the issues one might have with this story, I hope that many have confidence that I will navigate it carefully. For those unable to, I understand. But given the nature of serial storytelling and the tumultuous nature of the arc I will draw back from commentary on the story until it is completed" Then delete twitter from your phone for the summer. Will that solve the problems folks have and turn them to your side? No, and it probably shouldn't. But what it will do is at least stop you from saying stupid stuff while tripping over yourself to defend your story. the "Hydra aren't nazis" and whatever.

    Though really. It's probably just a better idea to not turn Captain America into a Nazi for a summer event premise.

    Another part of the problem is that the main throughline of Marvel comics for about a decade have been the heroes fighting the heroes. Now, as you say, you can write a comic about that. But it comes with many of the problems you talk about, but those problems have basically been normalized within the Marvel Comics zeitgeist now, so it's rather hard to mitigate them. (Not withstanding the quality of those stories which has been variable from eh to... not great)

    Essentially, if you're going to call them heroes, at some point they have to at least act like adults, and do something heroic.

    Otherwise it might just look like an excuse to continue to justify having people who are supposed to be on the same team and doing good acting like jerks and punching eachother.

    Fencingsax on
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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    Oh yeah. If I'm being totally honest- with some word changes, dropped references, and a slight back up in scale I could probably make that screed about most event comics.

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    Fencingsax
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    the only thing that will right this ship now is civil war 3: electric boogaloo

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    Kwoaru
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