I'm pushing into Naggarond territory now, but time is still pretty tight. Morathi confederated, so I can't fully get rid of her now, but it seems like their defense infrastructure is pretty bad. Meanwhile I'm making 20k per turn right now and making sure everything has a ton of walls, so my public order problems aren't such a big issue. My piss-cheap army comp helps a lot of course.
I know! I hold space bar just to pull up all the unit flags. It's possible this is like a pubg situation, where turning down the graphics settings might be better, because removing foliage in the trees only appears to do a small area.
So. Playing as lizardmen the High elves tried to do the final ritual, but got blasted. Tyrion put up a good fight (taking out 300 dark elfs by himself) but the high elfs are now out of the race.
I expect to do the same to Malekitk in a few rounds (he's doing his final ritual right now with 6 turns left) and the Skaven have been dominated by me and Kroq-gar.
I am thinking of going for a domination victory with lizardmen and just say "screw you ritual".
...oh. Kroq-Gar, you're thinking of confederating with me and uniting the entirety of my Lustria and the generous portion of the Southlands that's under your command? Oh my.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Unless I'm missing something, bastilodon solar engines can totally attack walls? I used them to do that a lot in my first playthrough.
I tried to attack towers and gates. Showed a red "can't attack" icon.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
After a lot of trouble with VH Vampire Counts (You have to get big, more or less, because you're never going to make it to the dwarves in time to deal with them) i am finding VH Von Carstein hilariously easy. Not only are the Von Carstein's hilariously overpowered (80 attack, 65 defense and 65 attack/80 defense right out of the gate... plus two 65/45 vampires) but because Von Carstein is a siege attacker(and you have 88 seconds of -50 melee attack on high value targets) you can just vasselize VC, murder Templehoff, martch to the Empire and do the same and i am guessing move right on to Bretonia and Moulison. 40 ish turns maybe?
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
After a lot of trouble with VH Vampire Counts (You have to get big, more or less, because you're never going to make it to the dwarves in time to deal with them) i am finding VH Von Carstein hilariously easy. Not only are the Von Carstein's hilariously overpowered (80 attack, 65 defense and 65 attack/80 defense right out of the gate... plus two 65/45 vampires) but because Von Carstein is a siege attacker(and you have 88 seconds of -50 melee attack on high value targets) you can just vasselize VC, murder Templehoff, martch to the Empire and do the same and i am guessing move right on to Bretonia and Moulison. 40 ish turns maybe?
I found Vampire Counts easier than Von Carsteins simply because you have the Gold Mine at Templehof to stabilize your early game income.
Well i mean, if you want to take Drakenhof instead of vasselizing them you can just take it on turn 3/4*. You have to take it to vasselize them anyway.
My Teclis game is wrapping up. The Dark Elves weren't really able to stop me, turns out they had a lot of territory and not many armies. Then the lizardmen did ritual 4 and accordingly declared war on me and badly, badly lost. Now they've confederated with The Last Defenders so... I don't know what that means. No ritual? Hooray?
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
Mortal Empires starting Legendary Lords map has been released:
Main difference I noticed is that Queek's start got moved way north as the lower half of Not-Africa has been cut, but should make the Badlands much more interesting
Southlands has also been increased eastwards to include Crater of the dead and kingdom of beasts. Southlands jungle and shifting sands were there the last time, but the geometry is different.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
My Teclis game is wrapping up. The Dark Elves weren't really able to stop me, turns out they had a lot of territory and not many armies. Then the lizardmen did ritual 4 and accordingly declared war on me and badly, badly lost. Now they've confederated with The Last Defenders so... I don't know what that means. No ritual? Hooray?
I saw the high elves do that and the confederated faction took over the ritual from the original faction. Unless their icon is gone from the main ritual progress bar, a race can still perform a ritual. I've only seen races lose the capacity for rituals if they get totally wiped out or if you thwart their final ritual.
My Teclis game is wrapping up. The Dark Elves weren't really able to stop me, turns out they had a lot of territory and not many armies. Then the lizardmen did ritual 4 and accordingly declared war on me and badly, badly lost. Now they've confederated with The Last Defenders so... I don't know what that means. No ritual? Hooray?
I saw the high elves do that and the confederated faction took over the ritual from the original faction. Unless their icon is gone from the main ritual progress bar, a race can still perform a ritual. I've only seen races lose the capacity for rituals if they get totally wiped out or if you thwart their final ritual.
In this case the ritual marker is gone, it looks like they gave up. I suspect it isn't intended behaviour.
Probably unpopular opinion time. I can't get into the he campaign. It feels slowwwww. I've got seaguard for days but they aren't fun to use, you just make a line and shoot untill you have to stab. Tyrion is fine. Nobles are fine. The way econ is set up (and I could be doing it wrong) seems to emphasize setting up some trade deals with the other elves you'll eventually confederate while you beat the dark elves, then the he holding vauls, then the other nearest elves that hate you...
It feels like it takes wayyyy too long to get decent infantry. Spearmen suck. Archers good and all but aren't infantry. Reavers of both flavors are good AND fun, but again, are not a line. I just don't seem to have the money to build a second stack yet which makes turns boring aside from trying to diplomacy a little more, and the diplomacy in tw:wh is just not that great. Which is fine, cause it's not what were here for.
So am I just doing HE wrong? Am I going to see the light once I get some dragons and swordmasters? Or do they just not support the aggressive style I like? Hell I love dwarves but he just feel bad!
Probably unpopular opinion time. I can't get into the he campaign. It feels slowwwww. I've got seaguard for days but they aren't fun to use, you just make a line and shoot untill you have to stab. Tyrion is fine. Nobles are fine. The way econ is set up (and I could be doing it wrong) seems to emphasize setting up some trade deals with the other elves you'll eventually confederate while you beat the dark elves, then the he holding vauls, then the other nearest elves that hate you...
It feels like it takes wayyyy too long to get decent infantry. Spearmen suck. Archers good and all but aren't infantry. Reavers of both flavors are good AND fun, but again, are not a line. I just don't seem to have the money to build a second stack yet which makes turns boring aside from trying to diplomacy a little more, and the diplomacy in tw:wh is just not that great. Which is fine, cause it's not what were here for.
So am I just doing HE wrong? Am I going to see the light once I get some dragons and swordmasters? Or do they just not support the aggressive style I like? Hell I love dwarves but he just feel bad!
It sounds like High Elves just don't mesh with your preferred style, they are very much a sit back and arrow people faction. Their offensive infantry and cavalry are okay but nothing special and dragons are cool but you still mostly want the enemy to walk through your arrow fire before the dragons go in. You probably could make a more offensive army with phoenix guard, swordmasters, and dragon princes but a stack full of those would be incredibly expensive.
Probably unpopular opinion time. I can't get into the he campaign. It feels slowwwww. I've got seaguard for days but they aren't fun to use, you just make a line and shoot untill you have to stab. Tyrion is fine. Nobles are fine. The way econ is set up (and I could be doing it wrong) seems to emphasize setting up some trade deals with the other elves you'll eventually confederate while you beat the dark elves, then the he holding vauls, then the other nearest elves that hate you...
It feels like it takes wayyyy too long to get decent infantry. Spearmen suck. Archers good and all but aren't infantry. Reavers of both flavors are good AND fun, but again, are not a line. I just don't seem to have the money to build a second stack yet which makes turns boring aside from trying to diplomacy a little more, and the diplomacy in tw:wh is just not that great. Which is fine, cause it's not what were here for.
So am I just doing HE wrong? Am I going to see the light once I get some dragons and swordmasters? Or do they just not support the aggressive style I like? Hell I love dwarves but he just feel bad!
It sounds like High Elves just don't mesh with your preferred style, they are very much a sit back and arrow people faction. Their offensive infantry and cavalry are okay but nothing special and dragons are cool but you still mostly want the enemy to walk through your arrow fire before the dragons go in. You probably could make a more offensive army with phoenix guard, swordmasters, and dragon princes but a stack full of those would be incredibly expensive.
It's always kind of frustrating when the armies you like fluffwise just have a total playstyle mismatch with you. Happened to me with Dwarves in the first one. Out of the races in the first, by fluff dwarves are my favorite by a mile. They're both cool and ridiculously, hilariously petty. But holy shit was playing them a pain in the ass in battle.
By comparison, I always thought the Vampires were lame as shit in the tabletop fluff, and Von Carstein to be a complete wanker, but by god did they gel with my tactical style. I very often genuinely lost less guys per battle playing Vampires than Dwarves, even though Vampire units are literally meant to be expendable!
Lizardmen:
+Good magic
+Heavy infantry
+Big monsters
+Good heroes
+Decent cav.
+Heroes riding on big monsters
-Ranged is only there to support your troops.
-Artillery isn't great
Playstyle: Huge wave of murderous infantry supported by giant monsters and specialist cavalry/flyers. Core units: Saurus warriors supported by Carnosaur/Stegadon/Terradons with bombs (with or without heroes on their backs).
DE:
+Awesome magic
+AP crossbows
+Aggressive infantry at all tiers
+Great heroes
-Shit cavalry
-Only expensive flyers and monsters are worth it, and they're low in numbers.
-Mediocre artillery
Playstyle: Fast moving infantry capable with good, but not awesome, capabilities in most areas. Core units: Dark elven sorceress, Assassin, Black guard of naggarond, Darkshards
HE:
+Good magic
+Good cavalry, though nothing like Demigryphs.
+Superb archers and archer/spearmen
+Good high tier defensive infantry
-Their infantry isn't really offensively great?
-Their mid-tier infantry is lackluster.
-Mediocre artillery (though slightly more suited to their playing style).
-Pretty bad skirmishers.
Playstyle: Blocks of archers supported by ranging cavalry and flyers. Core units: Lothern Sea guard, Star Dragon/Phoenixes, Phoenix Guard.
Skaven
+Awesome magic
+Great skirmishers (gutter runners are insane at delaying/disrupting)
+Big blobs of cost-worthy infantry that can blob up the enemy.
+Awesome artillery (and doomwheels).
+Good ranged support (in terms of skirmishers, globadiers and warp throwers)
-Shit archery (their long ranged infantry is generally terrible at actually killing stuff)
-No elite infantry to speak off
-Their monsters are IMHO subpar to all other WH2 factions.
Playstyle: Artillery core surrounded by infantry, skirmishers and devestating close ranged support. They have tools for stalling every foe and letting that artillery do its work.
Core units: Globadiers, Warplock engineers, Warp Lightning cannons&Plagueclaw catapults, Stormvermin
P.S: Core units are units I couldn't consider fielding a high tier army without.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Unless I'm missing something, bastilodon solar engines can totally attack walls? I used them to do that a lot in my first playthrough.
I tried to attack towers and gates. Showed a red "can't attack" icon.
Just loaded up my lizardmen save and I can confirm that solar engines can attack gates, towers, and walls -- it's 80% of the reason I use them because they do a bit more damage than the stegodons, and look awesome. If you're getting a red wall icon you're just out or range -- if you're getting a red X It appears to be bug or something I can't determine without seeing what you're doing.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I like what I'm hearing about the HE. Only wish they had guns, or at least brought back the mpre satisfying bow and arrows sounds from Shogun 2. In WH they're more like a tiny weak *pith* sounding thing.
We won't see 3rd party IP in Total Warhammer because CA does not allow modders to import new assets into the game. It's probably due to copyright fears. You can do a lot with the existing assets. Everything that's there has been cleared to be in the game.
I remember back in the millennial years Games Workshop was going after Unreal Tournament Modders for having Space Marines fighting Xenomorphs. They're really big about keeping their IP separate from anything outside of it's universe. They're not as bad as say Blizzard Entertainment or the Tolkien Folks, but they have some strict guidelines about it.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
We won't see 3rd party IP in Total Warhammer because CA does not allow modders to import new assets into the game. It's probably due to copyright fears. You can do a lot with the existing assets. Everything that's there has been cleared to be in the game.
I remember back in the millennial years Games Workshop was going after Unreal Tournament Modders for having Space Marines fighting Xenomorphs. They're really big about keeping their IP separate from anything outside of it's universe. They're not as bad as say Blizzard Entertainment or the Tolkien Folks, but they have some strict guidelines about it.
The ironic part is 40k itself was cobbled together from all kinds of different sci fi and fantasy sources. 2000 AD, Aliens, Starship Troopers, Dune, Tolkein, D&D, etc.
So I think the Lizard Men Feral armies are a bit OP.
Mine was just ambushed by 2 full stack Skaven armies. It was essentially 12 vs 3000+...and I won. The ferals were out of control for most of the fight but I won, and took no casualties.
Main difference I noticed is that Queek's start got moved way north as the lower half of Not-Africa has been cut, but should make the Badlands much more interesting
Southlands has also been increased eastwards to include Crater of the dead and kingdom of beasts. Southlands jungle and shifting sands were there the last time, but the geometry is different.
Teclis has also been moved up from the Turtle Islands (no longer present) to the Volcanic Islands.
Mazdumundi has been moved out of the Isthmus of Lustria and into the Southern Jungle of Pahualaxa (which is semi-new, as the original Jungle of Pahualaxa has been split into a North and a South). The Forest of the Viper and Settler's Coast are gone. Besides the bottom tip, Lustria also sees the removal of the Mosquito Swamps, River Qurveza, Forbidden Jungle and Dragon Isles for the gain of Huahual Desert.
Morathi's starting geography is also a bit different. The Grey Guardians and Iron Peaks are amalgamated as the Titan Peaks. To the north the Shadow Wood is gone, but there are the expanded Obsidian Peaks and new Doom Glades taking it's place. In the west, the Red Desert and Ashen Coast are replaced by the Black Spine Mountains. Northern Naggaroth seems mostly the same (except for Naggarond, which is gone as a province, with the city now in either The Chill Road or Iron Mountains).
It also looks like Sartosa might be part of Tilea instead of it's own area. Ditto for Albion and the Vanaheim Mountains.
So I think the Lizard Men Feral armies are a bit OP.
Mine was just ambushed by 2 full stack Skaven armies. It was essentially 12 vs 3000+...and I won. The ferals were out of control for most of the fight but I won, and took no casualties.
Part of that is probably what the Skaven brought. If it was mostly slaves then yeah, that's to be expected.
So I think the Lizard Men Feral armies are a bit OP.
Mine was just ambushed by 2 full stack Skaven armies. It was essentially 12 vs 3000+...and I won. The ferals were out of control for most of the fight but I won, and took no casualties.
If they didnt have globadiers, stormvermin halberdiers or warp lightning cannons, sounds about right.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I'm wondering about the big blank space on the east. From memory, that's where the Ogre Kingdoms are. I wonder if that's going to fill in on the map if they add them as Warhammer 2 DLC. Either that or they'll get placeholder starting locations for when Warhammer 3 adds that segment of the map.
So its going to take me more than 40 turns. Probably 80 all together. I wasn't as efficient as i ought to have been and that is going to make the (20 provinces) take a bit longer.
As it stands its turn 40 and i've killed the Empire and Bretonia. I am about to vasselize Moulison and then the goal is to have them take over the semi-ruins i've left in my wake as i go do whatever i want to whomever i want in order to get the 20 provinces.
Edit: still essentially on the base army. Though all the cav from bretonia is starting to be annoying
Goumindong on
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
I've not played much of the Lizardmen: are their Blessed unit missions set or guaranteed in any way, or completely random? They're very good units but it seems strange if they're completely down to luck.
I'm wondering about the big blank space on the east. From memory, that's where the Ogre Kingdoms are. I wonder if that's going to fill in on the map if they add them as Warhammer 2 DLC. Either that or they'll get placeholder starting locations for when Warhammer 3 adds that segment of the map.
The Ogre Kingdoms are in the Mountains of Mourn, which would be roughly along the very eastern edge of the Mortal Empires map (warning: huge image). Even then, they'd have to be fudged west a bit, as that map doesn't include the Dragon Isles, which sit in the Sea of Dread just below them. In between the Mountains of Mourn and the World's Edge Mountains are the Dark Lands, and the north-eastern corner is the Chaos realms.
This map (also huge) shows the area, and how it connects to the Old World and the north of the Southlands.
Looking back at some of the datamined info from when the first game came out, the original plan for the various armies were to be released as:
Now, obviously, plans changed. Skaven jumped the queue to join the first planned expansion, and it grew to be more of a full game. Tomb Kings are coming next, but Norsca DLC came out of nowhere (to the point where they were unable to fully integrate them in time for Mortal Empires launch on Thursday). Hopefully they've changed their minds on the third game, 'cause 4 base factions being the all Chaos doesn't sound the best.
Having thought more about it, I hope the third game's map is a bit tilted (geographically). In the top left, the Kislev Oblasts, a bit of Norsca, and the Skaven Hellpit. Travelling right along the top edge you have a bit of the Frozen Sea, and below that the Red Eye Greenskins in the Northern World's Edge Mountains. Through the High Pass is the Kislev Wheatlands colony (with the amazingly named city of Chernozavtra - "Black Tomorrow") in conflict with the Chaos Dwarf port of Uzkulak, the Place of Skulls.
The top right corner is the Chaos Daemon lands north of the Eastern Steppe. Get weird.
Down the right side (heading south-south-east) we get Northern parts of the Mountains of Mourn, infested with Greenskins. Maybe the very western edge of Cathay's Great Bastion, and the city of Nan-Gau, if they want to get crazy in the future and create a Cathay DLC faction. Either way, inland of this is the Plain of Zharr, and the Chaos Dwarf fortress-ziggarat of Zharr-Naggrund. Down further along the edge, the Ogre Kingdoms, inland of which is the Deamon's Stump (normally Chaos Dwarf, but maybe retaken by Daemons to add another faction down there), the Sentinels (held by Empire forces to protect trade routes) and the Black Fortress, home of the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer-Profit Drazhoath the Ashen.
The bottom right corner of the map hosts the Beastmen of the Haunted Forest, and below them the Lizardmen of the Dragon Isles. Moving west-south-west along the bottom of the map the Empire colony of Pigbarter sits in the Scalded Delta.
Over the Sea of Dread to the north-eastern Southlands and the bottom left of the map, where Kroq'gar's Lizardmen can be found in the Kingdom of Beasts. Just north of him, the High Queen Khalida of the Tomb Kings awakes in Lybaras, and Lord Queek plots in the Charnel Valley.
Moving north-north-west along the left edge of the map, we find the World's Edge Mountains. The Dwarfs of Karak Azul surrounded by Greenskins in Blightwater, the Desolation of Nagash, and Death Pass. In-map from Blightwater lies the Plain of Bones, where the Strigoi Vampires try to recreate the lands of Vorag, the First Ghoul King. Further up along the edge are more Dwarf and Greenskins. Up from the Strigoi are the Clan Rictus Skaven of Crookback Mountain, and east of Karaz-A-Karak sits the undead of the Silver Pinnacle, waiting for the DLC return of Neferata.
In the very middle you have the Blasted Wastes and the Desolation of Azgohr. More Chaos Dwarfs is kind of boring, so fill it with more human factions on the trade routes, or create some kind of campaign goal (maybe something found in the mines under the Tower of Gorgoth... I don't know. I feel like there should be something about controlling the trade routes from the Old World to the East).
There. That's not a terrible map, though everyone is kind of around the edges. For this, the four base factions would be Chaos Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. Kislev is only a slightly tweaked Empire, so you can whip them up quick and shift development resources to make Chaos Daemons a huge faction, with the options of staying Undivided or specialising in one of the gods. Some might accuse the inclusion of Kislev as there being only 3.5 new factions, but if you can nail Chaos Daemons, then it's more like 2.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5. DLC factions would be pretty limited. Maybe Cathay, though they'd be 95% new, or a Hobgoblin Khanate for the Chaos Dwarfs to enslave.
As far as fitting it into Mortal Empires, everything would get un-tilted, so that up would align with north again. Parts of the Chaos lands would probably have to get chopped to fit, and the Dark Lands shrunk to bring the Mountains of Mourn in a bit. The Dragon Isles are gone, and maybe the Kislev Wheatlands and Pigbarter too.
I've not played much of the Lizardmen: are their Blessed unit missions set or guaranteed in any way, or completely random? They're very good units but it seems strange if they're completely down to luck.
Seems to be just like the randomized missions of the first game, where it would give you missions to assassinate such and such an enemy or conquer a particular enemy location you happen to be near. Just has much better rewards.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
It really seems like it will be a letdown if the fourth game is just daemons. They will have to get creative with it, but honestly I only want to play empire, dwarves, and maybe now skaven and have new stuff and places to fight. Unless they went out there and added Cathayan or Nipponese colonies of course.
It really seems like it will be a letdown if the fourth game is just daemons. They will have to get creative with it, but honestly I only want to play empire, dwarves, and maybe now skaven and have new stuff and places to fight. Unless they went out there and added Cathayan or Nipponese colonies of course.
Chaos Dwarfs are pretty much a given, and most likely Ogre kingdoms to complete the set.
These will not be DLCs since their territory lies to the east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
It really seems like it will be a letdown if the fourth game is just daemons. They will have to get creative with it, but honestly I only want to play empire, dwarves, and maybe now skaven and have new stuff and places to fight. Unless they went out there and added Cathayan or Nipponese colonies of course.
Chaos Dwarfs are pretty much a given, and most likely Ogre kingdoms to complete the set.
These will not be DLCs since their territory lies to the east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
Though that begs the question what they will do with Daemons. If the plan for the third game was to do 4 armies, one for each god, including Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves will cut Daemons down to 2 armies. If they're set on doing 4 individual armies for Deamons and Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves won't be Warhammer 2 DLC, I'd wager they'll be Warhammer 3 DLC. Doing 2 Daemon armies in the base game and 2 as DLC seems really odd.
But then, that also means all we're likely to get for Warhammer 2 is Tomb Kings and Araby, which is a pretty small DLC selection compared to the first game. Kislev would be a cool addition, though I'm not sure how it would fit on the New World map. They're also east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
I think it says a lot about this game that it's been out for a couple of weeks and all we talk about is what the next game will be like. They should probably release it in injectable form.
Though that begs the question what they will do with Daemons. If the plan for the third game was to do 4 armies, one for each god, including Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves will cut Daemons down to 2 armies. If they're set on doing 4 individual armies for Deamons and Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves won't be Warhammer 2 DLC, I'd wager they'll be Warhammer 3 DLC. Doing 2 Daemon armies in the base game and 2 as DLC seems really odd.
But then, that also means all we're likely to get for Warhammer 2 is Tomb Kings and Araby, which is a pretty small DLC selection compared to the first game. Kislev would be a cool addition, though I'm not sure how it would fit on the New World map. They're also east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
Splitting Chaos Daemons into two at base and two as DLC might not be a bad idea. I mean, I haven't been into the tabletop game in a long time but when I played Khorne and Nurgle always seemed to be far more popular than Tzeentch and (especially) Slaanesh, so I don't think anyone will be throwing fits if the latter two aren't there immediately. That way you can do what they did for Norsca, adding Kislev as a pre-order DLC that is compatible with TW:W1 and Mortal Empires. (And I do think some sort of Empire presence needs to be in the game if the map is centred on the Dark Lands as introducing Chaos Daemons and just fighting amongst themselves, Ogres and Dwarfs seems wrong.)
As for factions to add to TW:W2, besides Tomb Kings and Araby I had seen speculation on (and been speculating on) Dogs of War. Mortal Empires removing the Settler's Coast somewhat scuttles that, though I suppose you could have an Estalian conquistador there during the Vortex, and then move their start back to the homeland for ME with the goal of establishing colonies in the New World. Another possibility I've seen kicked around would be to expand upon the Vampire Coast with the Zombie Pirates (who had an unofficial White Dwarf army list. Lots of zombies with pistols and muskets, cannon, and re-animated sea leviathans. Supported by raised pirate ships that function like Black Arks. Should be different enough from Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings as far as play style for an undead army goes). You'd have mad Luthor Harkon in Lustria and maybe Count Noctilus' Dreadfleet raiding in Naggaroth to add some spice up there.
There's also a lot of room on that map for new legendary lords, so I'd imagine a fair few will be coming as DLCs.
Edit: I feel like doing a bit of speculation on the starting positions of coming Legendary Lords.
The Tomb King's Settra will be kicking the Strigoi out of the Land of the Dead. I feel like that's a pretty safe assumption. I'd assume Khalida is in by the inclusion of the Devil's Backbone in Mortal Empires (where she'll start for that) but I'm not sure where she'd be in the Vortex campaign. Ash River is closest, but that's in a bit of a corner butting right against Settra. Maybe in the Shifting Sands. With a positive relationship with Settra, that would point him north against Ulthuan and her south against the lizardmen. With all the empty settlements in the Copper Desert and Culchan Plains I think someone will be there. The fact that Mortal Empires creates the Huahual Desert to keep a bit of sand in Lustria when the Copper Desert gets cut away solidifies that thought for me. Khatep would fit as he's been banished by Settra until he can discover a way to grant true immortality. Alternatively, Arkhan could be there instead of at his Black Tower, up to no good. Actually, having three Tomb Kings all bordering each other around Khemri is a little boring start wise, so we might see the Dark Elves having to worry about some enterprising old soul in the Red Desert or Ashen Coast. (Is it racist to see desert on the map and assume Tomb Kings could go there?) Those areas both get cut in Mortal Empires, but there's the added Black Spine Mountains region, so... there doesn't have to be a reason they wanted to keep some territory there, but I'm going to read into it. Plus, more people to fight for Morathi and Malekith.
If they add Araby, there isn't a lot of lore for potential Legendary Lords besides The Golden Magus, Sultan of the Seas. And he's a Djinn-binding sorcerer pirate, so he can go pretty much anywhere to begin. The Pirate Coast of Araby is the obvious choice, but I'd assume there'd also be some Sultan starting out by pushing the Bretonians off the continent so it could get a bit clustered. Maybe he could go vex the High Elves' Southern colonies.
A Dogs of War faction would have an Estalian Conquistador Lord of some sort in the Settler's Coast (shifting back to Estalia for Mortal Empires) and some Tilean Pirate King in Sartosa.
And as I said above, adding Zombie Pirates could be neat if they're desperate for one more faction. Stick Count Harkon on the Vampire Coast and Noctilus on the Clawed Coast to threaten the Elves.
Man, that's a lot of pirates. It'd be neat if they could update the Battles at Sea to be actually playable for that.
As for new lords for existing factions... the High Elves would get the Shadow King, Alith Anar, who'd introduce Shadow Warriors to the High Elf armies. He'd start in Nargarythe, pushing out the Scourge of Khaine, before launching his war against the Dark Elves. The Dark Elves would get... Malus Darkblade, Tyrant of Haeg Graef. He'd be trying to get his soul back from the ruinous powers and using some Kharibdyss to help. Alternatively, the Blood Queen of Har Ganeth, Crone Hellebron would bring Bloodwrack Medusa and her hatred of Morathi to the table. Skaven would get Ikit Claw, Chief Warplock Engineer of Clan Skyre (and inventor of the Doomwheel). He'd engage some Warplock Jezzail sniper teams while he adventured away from home. He'd start... hmm... on the Ashen Coast, looking to steal a motherload of warpstone from beneath Haeg Graef before moving back to Skavenblight for Mortal Empires. Tehenhauin, the Lizardmen's great Skink Prophet of Sotek would start in the Great Northern Jungle, his Salamanders ready to burn out the disease of Skaven that plague Lustria. And finally, the Seafarer Losterikson would lead his Skeggi Norsca in the Isthmus of Lustria, raiding and plundering the temples of gold.
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I know! I hold space bar just to pull up all the unit flags. It's possible this is like a pubg situation, where turning down the graphics settings might be better, because removing foliage in the trees only appears to do a small area.
I expect to do the same to Malekitk in a few rounds (he's doing his final ritual right now with 6 turns left) and the Skaven have been dominated by me and Kroq-gar.
I am thinking of going for a domination victory with lizardmen and just say "screw you ritual".
...oh. Kroq-Gar, you're thinking of confederating with me and uniting the entirety of my Lustria and the generous portion of the Southlands that's under your command? Oh my.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I tried to attack towers and gates. Showed a red "can't attack" icon.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I found Vampire Counts easier than Von Carsteins simply because you have the Gold Mine at Templehof to stabilize your early game income.
*3 if you start Vlad, 4 if you start Isabella
Main difference I noticed is that Queek's start got moved way north as the lower half of Not-Africa has been cut, but should make the Badlands much more interesting
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I saw the high elves do that and the confederated faction took over the ritual from the original faction. Unless their icon is gone from the main ritual progress bar, a race can still perform a ritual. I've only seen races lose the capacity for rituals if they get totally wiped out or if you thwart their final ritual.
I assume something similar happens when they confederate
As well as Araby!
I want flying carpets!
In this case the ritual marker is gone, it looks like they gave up. I suspect it isn't intended behaviour.
It feels like it takes wayyyy too long to get decent infantry. Spearmen suck. Archers good and all but aren't infantry. Reavers of both flavors are good AND fun, but again, are not a line. I just don't seem to have the money to build a second stack yet which makes turns boring aside from trying to diplomacy a little more, and the diplomacy in tw:wh is just not that great. Which is fine, cause it's not what were here for.
So am I just doing HE wrong? Am I going to see the light once I get some dragons and swordmasters? Or do they just not support the aggressive style I like? Hell I love dwarves but he just feel bad!
It sounds like High Elves just don't mesh with your preferred style, they are very much a sit back and arrow people faction. Their offensive infantry and cavalry are okay but nothing special and dragons are cool but you still mostly want the enemy to walk through your arrow fire before the dragons go in. You probably could make a more offensive army with phoenix guard, swordmasters, and dragon princes but a stack full of those would be incredibly expensive.
It's always kind of frustrating when the armies you like fluffwise just have a total playstyle mismatch with you. Happened to me with Dwarves in the first one. Out of the races in the first, by fluff dwarves are my favorite by a mile. They're both cool and ridiculously, hilariously petty. But holy shit was playing them a pain in the ass in battle.
By comparison, I always thought the Vampires were lame as shit in the tabletop fluff, and Von Carstein to be a complete wanker, but by god did they gel with my tactical style. I very often genuinely lost less guys per battle playing Vampires than Dwarves, even though Vampire units are literally meant to be expendable!
+Good magic
+Heavy infantry
+Big monsters
+Good heroes
+Decent cav.
+Heroes riding on big monsters
-Ranged is only there to support your troops.
-Artillery isn't great
Playstyle: Huge wave of murderous infantry supported by giant monsters and specialist cavalry/flyers. Core units: Saurus warriors supported by Carnosaur/Stegadon/Terradons with bombs (with or without heroes on their backs).
DE:
+Awesome magic
+AP crossbows
+Aggressive infantry at all tiers
+Great heroes
-Shit cavalry
-Only expensive flyers and monsters are worth it, and they're low in numbers.
-Mediocre artillery
Playstyle: Fast moving infantry capable with good, but not awesome, capabilities in most areas. Core units: Dark elven sorceress, Assassin, Black guard of naggarond, Darkshards
HE:
+Good magic
+Good cavalry, though nothing like Demigryphs.
+Superb archers and archer/spearmen
+Good high tier defensive infantry
-Their infantry isn't really offensively great?
-Their mid-tier infantry is lackluster.
-Mediocre artillery (though slightly more suited to their playing style).
-Pretty bad skirmishers.
Playstyle: Blocks of archers supported by ranging cavalry and flyers. Core units: Lothern Sea guard, Star Dragon/Phoenixes, Phoenix Guard.
Skaven
+Awesome magic
+Great skirmishers (gutter runners are insane at delaying/disrupting)
+Big blobs of cost-worthy infantry that can blob up the enemy.
+Awesome artillery (and doomwheels).
+Good ranged support (in terms of skirmishers, globadiers and warp throwers)
-Shit archery (their long ranged infantry is generally terrible at actually killing stuff)
-No elite infantry to speak off
-Their monsters are IMHO subpar to all other WH2 factions.
Playstyle: Artillery core surrounded by infantry, skirmishers and devestating close ranged support. They have tools for stalling every foe and letting that artillery do its work.
Core units: Globadiers, Warplock engineers, Warp Lightning cannons&Plagueclaw catapults, Stormvermin
P.S: Core units are units I couldn't consider fielding a high tier army without.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Just loaded up my lizardmen save and I can confirm that solar engines can attack gates, towers, and walls -- it's 80% of the reason I use them because they do a bit more damage than the stegodons, and look awesome. If you're getting a red wall icon you're just out or range -- if you're getting a red X It appears to be bug or something I can't determine without seeing what you're doing.
I remember back in the millennial years Games Workshop was going after Unreal Tournament Modders for having Space Marines fighting Xenomorphs. They're really big about keeping their IP separate from anything outside of it's universe. They're not as bad as say Blizzard Entertainment or the Tolkien Folks, but they have some strict guidelines about it.
The ironic part is 40k itself was cobbled together from all kinds of different sci fi and fantasy sources. 2000 AD, Aliens, Starship Troopers, Dune, Tolkein, D&D, etc.
Mine was just ambushed by 2 full stack Skaven armies. It was essentially 12 vs 3000+...and I won. The ferals were out of control for most of the fight but I won, and took no casualties.
Teclis has also been moved up from the Turtle Islands (no longer present) to the Volcanic Islands.
Mazdumundi has been moved out of the Isthmus of Lustria and into the Southern Jungle of Pahualaxa (which is semi-new, as the original Jungle of Pahualaxa has been split into a North and a South). The Forest of the Viper and Settler's Coast are gone. Besides the bottom tip, Lustria also sees the removal of the Mosquito Swamps, River Qurveza, Forbidden Jungle and Dragon Isles for the gain of Huahual Desert.
Morathi's starting geography is also a bit different. The Grey Guardians and Iron Peaks are amalgamated as the Titan Peaks. To the north the Shadow Wood is gone, but there are the expanded Obsidian Peaks and new Doom Glades taking it's place. In the west, the Red Desert and Ashen Coast are replaced by the Black Spine Mountains. Northern Naggaroth seems mostly the same (except for Naggarond, which is gone as a province, with the city now in either The Chill Road or Iron Mountains).
It also looks like Sartosa might be part of Tilea instead of it's own area. Ditto for Albion and the Vanaheim Mountains.
Part of that is probably what the Skaven brought. If it was mostly slaves then yeah, that's to be expected.
If they didnt have globadiers, stormvermin halberdiers or warp lightning cannons, sounds about right.
As it stands its turn 40 and i've killed the Empire and Bretonia. I am about to vasselize Moulison and then the goal is to have them take over the semi-ruins i've left in my wake as i go do whatever i want to whomever i want in order to get the 20 provinces.
Edit: still essentially on the base army. Though all the cav from bretonia is starting to be annoying
The Ogre Kingdoms are in the Mountains of Mourn, which would be roughly along the very eastern edge of the Mortal Empires map (warning: huge image). Even then, they'd have to be fudged west a bit, as that map doesn't include the Dragon Isles, which sit in the Sea of Dread just below them. In between the Mountains of Mourn and the World's Edge Mountains are the Dark Lands, and the north-eastern corner is the Chaos realms.
This map (also huge) shows the area, and how it connects to the Old World and the north of the Southlands.
Looking back at some of the datamined info from when the first game came out, the original plan for the various armies were to be released as:
DLC3: Beastmen
DLC5: Wood Elves
DLC8: Tomb Kings
DLC10: Skaven
DLC13: Chaos Dwarfs
DLC15: Ogre Kingdoms
EXP1: High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen
EXP2: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh
Now, obviously, plans changed. Skaven jumped the queue to join the first planned expansion, and it grew to be more of a full game. Tomb Kings are coming next, but Norsca DLC came out of nowhere (to the point where they were unable to fully integrate them in time for Mortal Empires launch on Thursday). Hopefully they've changed their minds on the third game, 'cause 4 base factions being the all Chaos doesn't sound the best.
Having thought more about it, I hope the third game's map is a bit tilted (geographically). In the top left, the Kislev Oblasts, a bit of Norsca, and the Skaven Hellpit. Travelling right along the top edge you have a bit of the Frozen Sea, and below that the Red Eye Greenskins in the Northern World's Edge Mountains. Through the High Pass is the Kislev Wheatlands colony (with the amazingly named city of Chernozavtra - "Black Tomorrow") in conflict with the Chaos Dwarf port of Uzkulak, the Place of Skulls.
The top right corner is the Chaos Daemon lands north of the Eastern Steppe. Get weird.
Down the right side (heading south-south-east) we get Northern parts of the Mountains of Mourn, infested with Greenskins. Maybe the very western edge of Cathay's Great Bastion, and the city of Nan-Gau, if they want to get crazy in the future and create a Cathay DLC faction. Either way, inland of this is the Plain of Zharr, and the Chaos Dwarf fortress-ziggarat of Zharr-Naggrund. Down further along the edge, the Ogre Kingdoms, inland of which is the Deamon's Stump (normally Chaos Dwarf, but maybe retaken by Daemons to add another faction down there), the Sentinels (held by Empire forces to protect trade routes) and the Black Fortress, home of the Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer-Profit Drazhoath the Ashen.
The bottom right corner of the map hosts the Beastmen of the Haunted Forest, and below them the Lizardmen of the Dragon Isles. Moving west-south-west along the bottom of the map the Empire colony of Pigbarter sits in the Scalded Delta.
Over the Sea of Dread to the north-eastern Southlands and the bottom left of the map, where Kroq'gar's Lizardmen can be found in the Kingdom of Beasts. Just north of him, the High Queen Khalida of the Tomb Kings awakes in Lybaras, and Lord Queek plots in the Charnel Valley.
Moving north-north-west along the left edge of the map, we find the World's Edge Mountains. The Dwarfs of Karak Azul surrounded by Greenskins in Blightwater, the Desolation of Nagash, and Death Pass. In-map from Blightwater lies the Plain of Bones, where the Strigoi Vampires try to recreate the lands of Vorag, the First Ghoul King. Further up along the edge are more Dwarf and Greenskins. Up from the Strigoi are the Clan Rictus Skaven of Crookback Mountain, and east of Karaz-A-Karak sits the undead of the Silver Pinnacle, waiting for the DLC return of Neferata.
In the very middle you have the Blasted Wastes and the Desolation of Azgohr. More Chaos Dwarfs is kind of boring, so fill it with more human factions on the trade routes, or create some kind of campaign goal (maybe something found in the mines under the Tower of Gorgoth... I don't know. I feel like there should be something about controlling the trade routes from the Old World to the East).
There. That's not a terrible map, though everyone is kind of around the edges. For this, the four base factions would be Chaos Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. Kislev is only a slightly tweaked Empire, so you can whip them up quick and shift development resources to make Chaos Daemons a huge faction, with the options of staying Undivided or specialising in one of the gods. Some might accuse the inclusion of Kislev as there being only 3.5 new factions, but if you can nail Chaos Daemons, then it's more like 2.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5. DLC factions would be pretty limited. Maybe Cathay, though they'd be 95% new, or a Hobgoblin Khanate for the Chaos Dwarfs to enslave.
As far as fitting it into Mortal Empires, everything would get un-tilted, so that up would align with north again. Parts of the Chaos lands would probably have to get chopped to fit, and the Dark Lands shrunk to bring the Mountains of Mourn in a bit. The Dragon Isles are gone, and maybe the Kislev Wheatlands and Pigbarter too.
Seems to be just like the randomized missions of the first game, where it would give you missions to assassinate such and such an enemy or conquer a particular enemy location you happen to be near. Just has much better rewards.
Chaos Dwarfs are pretty much a given, and most likely Ogre kingdoms to complete the set.
These will not be DLCs since their territory lies to the east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Though that begs the question what they will do with Daemons. If the plan for the third game was to do 4 armies, one for each god, including Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves will cut Daemons down to 2 armies. If they're set on doing 4 individual armies for Deamons and Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves won't be Warhammer 2 DLC, I'd wager they'll be Warhammer 3 DLC. Doing 2 Daemon armies in the base game and 2 as DLC seems really odd.
But then, that also means all we're likely to get for Warhammer 2 is Tomb Kings and Araby, which is a pretty small DLC selection compared to the first game. Kislev would be a cool addition, though I'm not sure how it would fit on the New World map. They're also east of the Worlds Edge mountains.
Splitting Chaos Daemons into two at base and two as DLC might not be a bad idea. I mean, I haven't been into the tabletop game in a long time but when I played Khorne and Nurgle always seemed to be far more popular than Tzeentch and (especially) Slaanesh, so I don't think anyone will be throwing fits if the latter two aren't there immediately. That way you can do what they did for Norsca, adding Kislev as a pre-order DLC that is compatible with TW:W1 and Mortal Empires. (And I do think some sort of Empire presence needs to be in the game if the map is centred on the Dark Lands as introducing Chaos Daemons and just fighting amongst themselves, Ogres and Dwarfs seems wrong.)
As for factions to add to TW:W2, besides Tomb Kings and Araby I had seen speculation on (and been speculating on) Dogs of War. Mortal Empires removing the Settler's Coast somewhat scuttles that, though I suppose you could have an Estalian conquistador there during the Vortex, and then move their start back to the homeland for ME with the goal of establishing colonies in the New World. Another possibility I've seen kicked around would be to expand upon the Vampire Coast with the Zombie Pirates (who had an unofficial White Dwarf army list. Lots of zombies with pistols and muskets, cannon, and re-animated sea leviathans. Supported by raised pirate ships that function like Black Arks. Should be different enough from Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings as far as play style for an undead army goes). You'd have mad Luthor Harkon in Lustria and maybe Count Noctilus' Dreadfleet raiding in Naggaroth to add some spice up there.
There's also a lot of room on that map for new legendary lords, so I'd imagine a fair few will be coming as DLCs.
Edit: I feel like doing a bit of speculation on the starting positions of coming Legendary Lords.
The Tomb King's Settra will be kicking the Strigoi out of the Land of the Dead. I feel like that's a pretty safe assumption. I'd assume Khalida is in by the inclusion of the Devil's Backbone in Mortal Empires (where she'll start for that) but I'm not sure where she'd be in the Vortex campaign. Ash River is closest, but that's in a bit of a corner butting right against Settra. Maybe in the Shifting Sands. With a positive relationship with Settra, that would point him north against Ulthuan and her south against the lizardmen. With all the empty settlements in the Copper Desert and Culchan Plains I think someone will be there. The fact that Mortal Empires creates the Huahual Desert to keep a bit of sand in Lustria when the Copper Desert gets cut away solidifies that thought for me. Khatep would fit as he's been banished by Settra until he can discover a way to grant true immortality. Alternatively, Arkhan could be there instead of at his Black Tower, up to no good. Actually, having three Tomb Kings all bordering each other around Khemri is a little boring start wise, so we might see the Dark Elves having to worry about some enterprising old soul in the Red Desert or Ashen Coast. (Is it racist to see desert on the map and assume Tomb Kings could go there?) Those areas both get cut in Mortal Empires, but there's the added Black Spine Mountains region, so... there doesn't have to be a reason they wanted to keep some territory there, but I'm going to read into it. Plus, more people to fight for Morathi and Malekith.
If they add Araby, there isn't a lot of lore for potential Legendary Lords besides The Golden Magus, Sultan of the Seas. And he's a Djinn-binding sorcerer pirate, so he can go pretty much anywhere to begin. The Pirate Coast of Araby is the obvious choice, but I'd assume there'd also be some Sultan starting out by pushing the Bretonians off the continent so it could get a bit clustered. Maybe he could go vex the High Elves' Southern colonies.
A Dogs of War faction would have an Estalian Conquistador Lord of some sort in the Settler's Coast (shifting back to Estalia for Mortal Empires) and some Tilean Pirate King in Sartosa.
And as I said above, adding Zombie Pirates could be neat if they're desperate for one more faction. Stick Count Harkon on the Vampire Coast and Noctilus on the Clawed Coast to threaten the Elves.
Man, that's a lot of pirates. It'd be neat if they could update the Battles at Sea to be actually playable for that.
As for new lords for existing factions... the High Elves would get the Shadow King, Alith Anar, who'd introduce Shadow Warriors to the High Elf armies. He'd start in Nargarythe, pushing out the Scourge of Khaine, before launching his war against the Dark Elves. The Dark Elves would get... Malus Darkblade, Tyrant of Haeg Graef. He'd be trying to get his soul back from the ruinous powers and using some Kharibdyss to help. Alternatively, the Blood Queen of Har Ganeth, Crone Hellebron would bring Bloodwrack Medusa and her hatred of Morathi to the table. Skaven would get Ikit Claw, Chief Warplock Engineer of Clan Skyre (and inventor of the Doomwheel). He'd engage some Warplock Jezzail sniper teams while he adventured away from home. He'd start... hmm... on the Ashen Coast, looking to steal a motherload of warpstone from beneath Haeg Graef before moving back to Skavenblight for Mortal Empires. Tehenhauin, the Lizardmen's great Skink Prophet of Sotek would start in the Great Northern Jungle, his Salamanders ready to burn out the disease of Skaven that plague Lustria. And finally, the Seafarer Losterikson would lead his Skeggi Norsca in the Isthmus of Lustria, raiding and plundering the temples of gold.